So, how does this work?

[MdWIldcat55]

I was absolutely floored by Murray last night, as I'm sure all of us were. I saw a guy who you could give the ball to against any college team in America, put a shooter on the wing and two mobile big men rolling to the rim as defenses collapsed for passes or lobs and he'd be unstoppable.

I didn't see a guy who you'd have floating out on the wing while Ulis and Briscoe attacked defenses.

Based on the 4th quarter and OT last night, you'd want Murray at point, maybe Mulder spotting up for those kick out passes he was getting to Heslip, and then Skal, Poythress and maybe Matthews attacking the rim and setting screens up at the high post then rolling to the basket. That might be Kentucky's most effective line-up, if you wanted Murray in attack mode.

When not in attack mode, as in the first three quarters when Canada was relying on Andrew Nicholson and Anthony Bennett for offense, Murray was pretty passive -- I'm not sure he'd cracked the boxscore in any category.

Beyond saying, 'leave it to Cal,' how do Murray, Ulis and Briscoe co-exist?

 

[WildMoon]

Who ever gets the rebound can initiate the offense?

I think, we'll play insanely fast. I think it'll be fun.

All i know is this is perfect players to match up with Lee/Poythress, because it'll give them the spacing to utilize their athleticism.

I also like to see the ball movement like we saw from Spurs a year ago, that was beautiful. Would love to see that ball movement in collegiate level.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

Ulis isn't exactly ball-dominate. Sure, you'd like to have it in his hands since you know he's not turning it over + he has the best vision of the trio, but he's a real good catch&shoot player & isn't selfish. His fit next to Murray should be easy.

Briscoe on the other hand…its gonna be awkward in the start. Not a polished shooter & his strengths seem to be his ability to overpower guards + use his handles to create something. Doesn;t have the skills to thrive off-ball.

Its really only Briscoe who's the questionable fit. Everybody else fits smoothly around Murray. Isaiah will need to improve his spot-up shooting + move without the ball, which will be a big adjustment for him.

Who ever gets the rebound can initiate the offense?

I think, we'll play insanely fast. I think it'll be fun.

.

Lol not happening wit Cal.

 

[Aike]

One thing about Tyler Ulis is that the ball doesn't stick in his hands.

Ulis usage rate last season was only 13.5. That is RIDICULOUSLY low for a pg.

For comparison sake, Brandon Knight, who we all know is a high usage guard, had a 27 rate in his one season at Kentucky.

So I think you are looking for a problem that doesn't exist. Ulis is such an incredible facilitator that he leaves lots of room for guys like Briscoe and Murray to get their touches.

If Skal has a usage around 19 (AD's was 18.8 at UK), Poy is about 17, and Ulis only 14, you leave room for Murray and Briscoe to average usage of 25 apiece.

 

[Nubb16]

We had a damn good team with wall and Bledsoe and both played point with wall being primary at it tho. I bet cal does something like that. But Murray can play off the ball for sure. I don't think we will go wrong either way

 

[KA4Prez]

The key is Briscoe. Murray and Ulis can clearly play any role as both are unselfish and are quick making decisions. Essentially, you have 2 scoring capable point guards on the floor.

This would work perfectly if there is another guy who is a pure shooter, and 2 finishers inside (which we should have 3 with Skal, Poy and Lee).

I've said it all along. Briscoe is the wild card. From what I've seen in the few times I've watched him, he is NOT in the same mold as Ulis and Murray. He's got insane skill, but we'll see what role he finds. He reminds me a lot of Tony Wroten when he was at Washington.

I'm hopeful that his attitude stays positive and he finds a niche and picks his spots. He's gotta be ready at any moment. Very, very similar to what Ulis did last year. There was no competition for PT, Tyler came in, found his niche and executed almost every time he was asked. We need the same from Briscoe.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

On what do you base the observation that Murray can play off the ball? To me he looks a bit passive when not initiating the offense all the way up the court.

Yeah, he needs to be running the show.

Even if he wasn't passive off-ball, i'd still want him to have the highest usage rate of the trio simply because he can get into the teeth of the D + has the skill level to hit step-backs + pull-up 3s. That is a valuable skill a lead ball handler posses and something Ulis & Briscoe don't have.

- Ulis doesn;t attack the rim.

- Briscoe shooting touch has always been his question mark.

 

[bucsrule8872]

DDMO.

Whichever guard brings it up and has an opening, he drives and sees what happens. If not he passes off to another guard and rotates to the wing. That guard reads the defense and drives or passes off to another guard and rotates to the wing.

It's called MOTION.

These guys aren't statues. They aren't glued to the floor at their positions.

I imagine Briscoe driving and getting cut off, kicking out to Ulis and the defense adjusting to make sure he doesn't get an easy jumper, he kicks it to Murray, they adjust and come out on Murray (a deadly shooter) and then Murray ball fakes and drives, the defense rotates and a big comes up to stop Murray and he dishes to Labissiere, Poythress, or Lee for the dunk.

That is just one example of how they can work together.

It should be fun to watch these guys together once they understand their roles and how they can compliment each other.

 

[KA4Prez]

I definitely think it can work. However, I think there is PT available at the wing for Mulder, Matthews or Willis. The way Murray has played, I honestly could see Ulis/Murray in the back court and Poythress/Skal in the front court. The 3 spot is wide open.

This is in response to those who initially thought Murray would fit right in as the 3, and be the scorer for Ulis and Briscoe to distribute too. I just don't see it that way at all. It's going to be difficult to play all 3 at the same time.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

I definitely think it can work. However, I think there is PT available at the wing for Mulder, Matthews or Willis. The way Murray has played, I honestly could see Ulis/Murray in the back court and Poythress/Skal in the front court. The 3 spot is wide open.

This is in response to those who initially thought Murray would fit right in as the 3, and be the scorer for Ulis and Briscoe to distribute too. I just don't see it that way at all. It's going to be difficult to play all 3 at the same time.

We'll see what Cal comes up with. Your best line up by far is those 3 starting/playing together. And as others have said, in this offense the ball is going to change hands a ton, so not one player is going to dominate the ball. I don't see UK having that good a season if a guy like Briscoe is not playing nearly as much...for talent purposes and it will hurt chemistry.

 

[Aike]

I definitely think it can work. However, I think there is PT available at the wing for Mulder, Matthews or Willis. The way Murray has played, I honestly could see Ulis/Murray in the back court and Poythress/Skal in the front court. The 3 spot is wide open.

This is in response to those who initially thought Murray would fit right in as the 3, and be the scorer for Ulis and Briscoe to distribute too. I just don't see it that way at all. It's going to be difficult to play all 3 at the same time.

I don't think it will be difficult to play them all three together whatsoever. It will be an incredible luxury from a ball handling and floor spacing standpoint.

It's not surprising that there are folks on this board already trying to paint Briscoe into a corner. Maybe we should give him a chance to play beside two other extremely talented guards and see how he looks.



That being said, there are 120 minutes available at what we could loosely call the 1-3 positions. Possibly a handful of minutes at the "4" as well. There are definitely minutes there for Matthews, Mulder, and maybe even Willis to grab.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Research "motion offenses."

These guys do not just stand around and stay in their "spots."

Guys will rotate to different spots on the floor. Ulis isn't going to stay at the top of the key even if he brings the ball up the floor. Labissiere isn't camping out on the block. Murray won't stand on the wing all day.

Guys will play with the ball and off the ball even within the same 30 second possession.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

I've enjoyed reading the endless possibilities with next year's lineup. This is fun!

What wouldn't be fun is drawing up a game plan to beat these Cat's. I feel sorry for the opposing assistants that drew the UK game to prepare/scout for this season. I can see it now.

"Coach... we basically need to figure out a way to keep the ball out of everyone's hands" what? Not happening.

 

[Teachable Moe]

One thing for sure. We won't see much man-to-man played against them.

 

[blubo]

with all the play making potential from our guards i can foresee some high scoring lob fests especially against teams who don't match well with our bigs. hard to predict how well we do on d, but no reason to think we won't be good, given cal's emphasis that he stresses on defense.

 

[KMKAT]

One thing for sure. We won't see much man-to-man played against them.

We will see teams trying to force up shoot outside once again. We won't be able to just die down the lane, but I don't think that is our only strength. We still need depth, and Willis, Lee and Hawkins are determined to get more minutes this year.
And how many would have liked to see Briscoe in that game last night? The USA has an odd roster, to say the least.

 

[bucsrule8872]

with all the play making potential from our guards i can foresee some high scoring lob fests especially against teams who don't match well with our bigs. hard to predict how well we do on d, but no reason to think we won't be good, given cal's emphasis that he stresses on defense.

This.

I love the dilemma for opposing coaches. Do you want to play man to man and give up drives to the basket or do you want to play zone and get torched by a couple of exceptional (around 40%) three point shooters?

Most teams will have to take their chances with a zone, but that is going to be dangerous with Ulis and Maker on the floor. And then throw in Mulder at times as a third shooter.

Could get scary for opposing defenses.

 

[Blueaz]

I saw Murray float out quite a few times AND he was wide open. His teammates could not find him.
IMO he will be used similar to Booker. Cal will try to show the NBA he has a good outside touch, and show he has well rounded game. Hence worthy as top 3 pick

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

I saw Murray float out quite a few times AND he was wide open. His teammates could not find him.
IMO he will be used similar to Booker. Cal will try to show the NBA he has a good outside touch, and show he has well rounded game. Hence worthy as top 3 pick

Booker was given zero ball handling/creating duties. Thats not gonna happen w/ Murray.

 

[Blueaz]

I meant the floating out for an open 3
Sorry if I confused.

 

[Teachable Moe]

I saw Murray float out quite a few times AND he was wide open. His teammates could not find him.
IMO he will be used similar to Booker.

I think my favorite play of the night came in overtime. The USA had put a very tall defender on Murray with the obvious charge to stick on the 3 pt line. Which he did. And Murray, as time as running down, still found a way to wrong foot him and make the shot.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

I think my favorite play of the night came in overtime. The USA had put a very tall defender on Murray with the obvious charge to stick on the 3 pt line. Which he did. And Murray, as time as running down, still found a way to wrong foot him and make the shot.

 

[GonzoCat90]

You have to have this discussion in the context of how they'll be guarded, as well. You can't just assume a defense that's equal across the board. Teams will put their biggest/best wing defender on Murray, their quickest guy on Ulis, and then Briscoe will be left facing the third guy.

Odds are, that third guy will not be big enough to stop him, and if he is, he won't be quick enough. Isaiah Briscoe is a point guard, but also a combo guard. In those instances, put the ball in his hands like we did with Andrew last year, put Ulis on the wing like he was last season, and let Murray fill the Aaron role. It's the same concept, and it worked very well.

Even in last night's game, you saw Murray initiate from the wing, whether that was calling for screens and moving to the top of the key for a shot, driving and passing, getting all the way to the rim, or hitting a step back three. If Ulis drives and kicks to him there, he's perfectly comfortable making a play from that spot. That's how this offense is supposed to work anyway.

Basically, we'll just play it by ear and see who starts at the top and who they kick to on the wing. Whoever has the advantage will take their man and the offense reacts accordingly from there. It's the triple option of basketball. This only fails if one can't dribble at all or if we shoot poorly, but that's the case with every offense.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

This is how group think on this board develops and ultimately creates phantoms in the shadows that don't really exist. It starts as an innocent question, and before a thread ends, half the people on this message board have convinced themselves that a particular player is inferior.

Briscoe is being labeled the odd man out based on a few all-star game performances where our resident experts declared him broke as a perimeter player unless he's attacking the rim.

Meanwhile, Murray can't play off the ball because of his performance with the Canadian team last night where, at the tender, subservient age of 18, he tried following the advice of the team's veterans for the first three quarters by getting other players involved.

So based on this sample size, some of our fans are already pushing Briscoe out as the potential weakness next year? Let's allow this thing to play out. We have three guards who compliment each other and all possess elite skillset. I also have to respectfully disagree that Matthews should play over Briscoe. He's not an elite wing rebounder, and his stroke is not really better than Briscoe's, so what skill does he offer the offense that Briscoe doesn't offer outside of perimeter defense? I can't see a scenario where Matthews is a better spot-up shooter than Briscoe. I watched Charles put up over about 50 straight warm-up threes and he knocked down maybe 20 to 25 of them. My experience has shown me that high-level shooters can make around 70% of their wide-open threes. Charles will probably shoot the three ball in the lows 30% range as a frosh at Kentucky. That's not intrinsic to asserting he'll be a well-define spot-up shooter.

To answer the OP's question, however, I think it's obvious Murray can operate just as easily off a Ulis pass to the wing (where Murray will be flaring off screens) as he could being the ball-dominate initiator of the offense. Getting him the ball, with the goal of Murray attacking, will be the key. It's really not that complicated. Murray was not looking to attack in the first three quarters because he had vets telling him to do otherwise. Changing that mentality and giving him free range to operate - whether he's initiating the offense across the half-court or receiving it on the wing with the idea of attacking - is the only key that needs attention. Once he touches the ball, he needs to attack, and he will.

 

[jrpross]

View embedded media

You can't even guard that

 

[4UK]

Since Cal has been at UK, the dribble drive has been like the press was with Tubby. Every year we think it's coming, and it never really does. That being said, I do think this is the year.

He went to the dribble drive at Memphis because he never really had the consistent inside threat. That hasn't been a problem at UK, and that's why we haven't seen much of it, because deep down, Cal's first preference on offense is always to feed the post. There's only been one year here that he didn't have someone to throw it into when we needed a bucket - and not coincidentally, that was by far his worst year here.

This team lacks that type of player. Skal, for all his talents, is not going to go the block and score much with his back to the basket - at least not next year. He'll develop that in the pros, but his body won't be ready for it next year. Lee and Poy have not shown any reason to this point to think their offense goes beyond lobs and put backs.

The good news is, our guards are so good, and so versatile, that we'll be able to score in other ways - unlike the NIT team. So I get why some are caught up in who plays what position, but I really do think this team will play a game that is unlike anything we've seen in the last six years.

 

[jarms24]

He traveled so hard in that vine.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

You are the second person on this thread to claim people are trying to marginalize Briscoe. And yet you two are the only ones to bring it up.

As the OP, I certainly don't want to see Briscoe's talents wasted. I suppose we'll just have to be patient and observe as Cal unfolds his template for Positionless Basketball. I'm sure he's having a ball discussing this with other top basketball minds.

I'm not trying to start an argument, as you are entitled to your opinion (and I typically agree with you, so take that for what it's worth), but do you think your initial idea of putting a projected starter in Briscoe on the bench in favor of Mulder or Matthews is an example of, to use your word, marginalizing him?

I mean, what exactly is your basis for wanting to see Matthews in the lineup over Briscoe? I've seen Matthews play in person and I've seen his shooting regimen in person. I'm a huge Matthews fan, but I don't see what he offers over Briscoe as far as a starter is concerned.

I'm actually open to your opinion and suggestions - as I love talking UK's potentials - so feel free to offer your critique.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I'm not looking to argue either. All I was saying in the OP is that if you wanted to mimic the way Canada used Murray -- ball in his hands and attacking on every possession -- you'd be better off with a different type of line up. But that's not to say it's the way I think Cal should use the roster. I certainly hope Cal has a plan to get the best from all three of the Amigos.

I actually shade to your view that Mulder might end up a starter because of his skillset. His shooting ability might be perfect with Murray and Ulis in the lineup. The spacing would allow the offense to flow on an elite level. I'm not sure how opponents could guard that type of shooting/ball handling. Of course, if Briscoe can consistently hit the three ball (34 to 36% would be great), Mulder's skills probably don't offset Briscoe's advantages.

UK is going to have a plethora of options. Your OP is but another example of the ways Calipari can utilize his potential lineups. I think when it comes to late March/early April, we see Ulis and Murray on the court together for about 35 minutes/game. Those two need to have the ball as much as possible and I can see scenarios where Murray establishes the offense from the top of the key and Cal runs Mulder and Ulis to the corners, and allows Murray to dictate the penetration.

 

[Aike]

You are the second person on this thread to claim people are trying to marginalize Briscoe. And yet you two are the only ones to bring it up.

As the OP, I certainly don't want to see Briscoe's talents wasted. I suppose we'll just have to be patient and observe as Cal unfolds his template for Positionless Basketball. I'm sure he's having a ball discussing this with other top basketball minds.

5star is the main one already trying to marginalize Briscoe. He is his new Andrew.

 

[throatpoker]

You see, how this works is.......40-0

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

We have more shooters than the freakin OK Corral.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

5star is the main one already trying to marginalized Briscoe. He is his new Andrew.

I'm highly questionable of his game after watching him play in 5 games, but i'm not trying to marginalize him.

 

[Aike]

I'm highly questionable of his game after watching him play in 5 games, but i'm not trying to marginalize him.

Ok

 

[C1180]

A situation that no one has seen fit to address in this thread is the possibility that Ulis might not be the starting PG. I could see a starting line up Of Briscoe at PG, Murry at 2G, Muldur or Matthews at SF, Labrisiare at center, and Poythress at PF.

Ulis is not a the big type guard that Calipari seems to prefer and at times last season Ulis was used by bigger guards.

IMO having 3 point guards on the floor at the same time just might be one point guard too many.

I love Ulis but feel he could be the odd guard out of the starting lineup.

 

[5iveStarRecruit]

A situation that no one has seen fit to address in this thread is the possibility that Ulis might not be the starting PG. I could see a starting line up Of Briscoe at PG, Murry at 2G, Muldur or Matthews at SF, Labrisiare at center, and Poythress at PF.

Ulis is not a the big type guard that Calipari seems to prefer and at times last season Ulis was used by bigger guards.

IMO having 3 point guards on the floor at the same time just might be one point guard too many.

I love Ulis but feel he could be the odd guard out of the starting lineup.

Lmaooo

 

[Aike]

A situation that no one has seen fit to address in this thread is the possibility that Ulis might not be the starting PG. I could see a starting line up Of Briscoe at PG, Murry at 2G, Muldur or Matthews at SF, Labrisiare at center, and Poythress at PF.

Ulis is not a the big type guard that Calipari seems to prefer and at times last season Ulis was used by bigger guards.

IMO having 3 point guards on the floor at the same time just might be one point guard too many.

I love Ulis but feel he could be the odd guard out of the starting lineup.

Anything is possible, but this seems illogical.

Ulis played 24 mins a game last year on a stacked team. He often shared the court with another pg. He probably would have started last year, had we not returned our starting backcourt.

I fully expect Ulis to start and play big minutes. Somewhere between 28-32 per game, barring injury. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't play out this way.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Cal to Ulis early in April: "this is your team."

Can't see him not starting if Cal truly meant that this was "his team."

Anything is possible, though.