second half offense

[kyjeff1]

Coach Cal has always coached liked this here. He doesn't instill a killer instinct in our teams. He expects to get up big and milk it and maintain the lead. Unfortunately most of his teams are young and don't play as well when they have to slow it down and hold the ball until late in the shot clock. That has killed us the last 2 games. I think if we kept playing aggressive the whole game we don't lose those games.

It is much easier to defend a team that isn't attacking you until the last seconds of the shot clock. Florida nearly got back into this one with that terrible offense. We were lucky to hit 2 threes in a row at the end to put the game away. The one thing I always liked about Pitino here is that his teams went for the throat (one of the only good things I can still say about him). I think we have lost 3 games this year so far when we had a double digit lead that we probably should have won.

I think this has been Coach Cal's worst coaching job since he has been here. There is still time to turn it around, but we can't afford anymore loses after big leads and we would benefit from mixing up the defenses and playing more aggressive until the end of the game. We have to stop holding the ball until there is less than 7 seconds on the shot clock and forcing bad shots.

Ok prepare to start the bashing.

IMO you shouldn't get bashed for that post. It was an honest, and true, assessment.
If this game was in Gainesville we might have lost the lead and the game just like we did Tuesday night.
We started to see it a couple of different times today.
Again, for people like @DwayneMeighan that don't get it, this isn't about today's game, this is about thinking ahead and being a little concerned about tough road games and giving away big leads. It's not like it hasn't happened.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah but they didn't.......i mean we maintained a double digit lead the entire time.

This game was never in doubt.

Correct but would it have stayed at double digits if it wasn't in Rupp?
This team loses leads consistently and it is a concern. We have some TOUGH road games coming up.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

Why click on the thread than? It was an honest question. Move along. It wasn't meant to knock the team.

And the answer to the question is obvious. It's a question that's been asked 100 times on the board, and the answer has been the exact same every single time.

Cal prefers to slow it down and limit possessions. This is the way he coaches. He's always done it this way and will continue to do it that way.

Considering he's won 80+% of his games doing it this way, I'm inclined to believe whatever he's doing is working and is right.

Sure, you can point to a few games that UK lost because of that tactic, but I can point to a hundred games they won using the same tactic.

 

[trinity45]

Okay, it's been really bothering me. Our offense is so different in the second half. We always seem to play hard after the opening tip. Our guys are are all moving around and creating.
But then something happens and our offense turns into the easiest offense to defend.
Our guys just go to a spot and stand there. Nobody moves. Everyone is just looking at Tyler and Murray and waiting on them to do something.
If Murray doesn't light it up today this is a close game.
This also explains SOME of the lopsided officiating. How can the opponent collect fouls if we are just standing there as our guards take jump shots?
What's worse is even though our guys are perched near the paint we still get beat for a lot of rebounds.
What are your thoughts on the standing around that we are seeing on offense? I don't get why we are doing that, it blocks driving lanes.

We slow the game down for whatever reason and end up taking bad shots as the clock runs down

 

[The_Answer1313]

Correct but would it have stayed at double digits if it wasn't in Rupp?
This team loses leads consistently and it is a concern. We have some TOUGH road games coming up.

With how we played today, I believe it would have.

I mean I do see the other side to this. It's extremely hard to play good on offense when your shooting with 5 seconds left on the clock. And we did take a hit on offense in that second half. We weren't nearly as effective on offense.

I just think Cal is looking at this thing. I'm up 26. I got Poy out. I got Lee and Skal with 4 fouls. If I lose Lee and Skal, I'm screwed. I have to keep them on the court. So he sacrificed offense for that.

I realize people hate this. But I don't believe he was wrong doing it.

Going forward..........u know what I'm not all that concerned about this. In the tournament, we won't be up 20 to begin with so I think it's a non factor.

 

[KyCatFan]

We had a 13 point lead and I believe Florida had 4 straight chances to cut into the lead, but couldn't hit a shot. Just think if they hit a couple of threes and had it down to 7. The game could have easily changed in their favor. I just think we are better playing aggressive and when the offense gets stagnant the defense seems to as well. Florida made a lot of baskets up until they went cold down 13. This game could have easily turned into another Tennessee. We have 8 games left and 5 are going to be tough to win. We can't afford anymore bad losses and we have to win some of those tough games.

 

[kyjeff1]

And the answer to the question is obvious. It's a question that's been asked 100 times on the board, and the answer has been the exact same every single time.

Cal prefers to slow it down and limit possessions. This is the way he coaches. He's always done it this way and will continue to do it that way.

Considering he's won 80+% of his games doing it this way, I'm inclined to believe whatever he's doing is working and is right.

Sure, you can point to a few games that UK lost because of that tactic, but I can point to a hundred games they won using the same tactic.

I have not seen any threads talking about the standing around. Yes the offense has been talked about a lot on here but I made some points and asked for comments from others.

If you don't like ANOTHER thread about the offense than just don't click on it. It's that simple.

Now, I couldn't care less what Calipari's previous teams have done. This is a different team and apparently YOU haven't noticed that THIS team continues to lose big leads and lose to bad teams. In the process they are fouling a ton, meanwhile the teams we are playing don't ever appear to get into foul trouble.

So, my points remain, when the players don't move on offense they become easy to defend and it's something I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. Is that okay with you?

 

[kyjeff1]

And the answer to the question is obvious. It's a question that's been asked 100 times on the board, and the answer has been the exact same every single time.

Cal prefers to slow it down and limit possessions. This is the way he coaches. He's always done it this way and will continue to do it that way.

Considering he's won 80+% of his games doing it this way, I'm inclined to believe whatever he's doing is working and is right.

Sure, you can point to a few games that UK lost because of that tactic, but I can point to a hundred games they won using the same tactic.

To add onto my rant with you, this thread is now at 2 pages. I wonder why that is? Seems like a good discussion to me.
I take it you disagree?

 

[DwayneMeighan]

We had a 13 point lead and I believe Florida had 4 straight chances to cut into the lead, but couldn't hit a shot. Just think if they hit a couple of threes and had it down to 7.

Yeah, but that wasn't because of Cal slowing the game down. That was because UK was also missing wide open shot and went 5 minutes without scoring.

So if you're gonna give UF the benefit of he doubt and say if only they made a few wide open shot, then they could have cut the game to 7. You can also give UK the same benefit of the doubt and say if only they made a few of their missed wide open shots, then they would have won by 30. It works both ways. Both teams missed wide open shots they should have made.

 

[kyjeff1]

We had a 13 point lead and I believe Florida had 4 straight chances to cut into the lead, but couldn't hit a shot. Just think if they hit a couple of threes and had it down to 7. The game could have easily changed in their favor. I just think we are better playing aggressive and when the offense gets stagnant the defense seems to as well. Florida made a lot of baskets up until they went cold down 13. This game could have easily turned into another Tennessee. We have 8 games left and 5 are going to be tough to win. We can't afford anymore bad losses and we have to win some of those tough games.

Those shots went down at Auburn, KU and Tennessee. We still have games @Florida, @aTm, @Vandy etc… if we allow those teams to hang around we are staring at more losses.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

I have not seen any threads talking about the standing around. Yes the offense has been talked about a lot on here but I made some points and asked for comments from others.

If you don't like ANOTHER thread about the offense than just don't click on it. It's that simple.

Now, I couldn't care less what Calipari's previous teams have done. This is a different team and apparently YOU haven't noticed that THIS team continues to lose big leads and lose to bad teams. In the process they are fouling a ton, meanwhile the teams we are playing don't ever appear to get into foul trouble.

So, my points remain, when the players don't move on offense they become easy to defend and it's something I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. Is that okay with you?

And again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm answering the question you asked. That's the way Cal prefers to coach. He likes to limit possessions and play to the percentages.

It's going to continue to be that way with Cal as the head coach. He's done it from day one. That's your answer. It's on you to accept it or not. Asking over and over why this, why that isn't going to change it.

 

[The_Answer1313]

And u have to credit UF for cutting into it as well. I mean they missed a ton of shots that first half that they ended up making in the second.

I don't think playing faster would have stopped that from occurring IMO

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah, but that wasn't because of Cal slowing the game down. That was because UK was also missing wide open shot and went 5 minutes without scoring.

So if you're gonna give UF the benefit of he doubt and say if only they made a few wide open shot, then they could have cut the game to 7. You can also give UK the same benefit of the doubt and say if only they made a few of their missed wide open shots, then they would have won by 30. It works both ways. Both teams missed wide open shots they should have made.

The problem with this logic is our offense was so stagnant that the quality of shots we were getting was not good. Having Brickso shoot corner threes and long two's because all our probing for 25 seconds didn't work because nobody was moving.
Meanwhile Florida comes down and drives the ball hard into the paint and collects a foul on one of our bigs.
It's a concern, you can turn and look away and ignore it but it is a concern.

 

[kyjeff1]

And again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm answering the question you asked. That's the way Cal prefers to coach. He likes to limit possessions and play to the percentages.

It's going to continue to be that way with Cal as the head coach. He's done it from day one. That's your answer. It's on you to accept it or not. Asking over and over why this, why that isn't going to change it.

You just moved the goalposts. You went on a rant earlier in this thread about there being a thread (this one) that was the only negative thread after a 19 point win. Don't change your tune now.

 

[michaeluk26]

We had a 13 point lead and I believe Florida had 4 straight chances to cut into the lead, but couldn't hit a shot. Just think if they hit a couple of threes and had it down to 7. The game could have easily changed in their favor. I just think we are better playing aggressive and when the offense gets stagnant the defense seems to as well. Florida made a lot of baskets up until they went cold down 13. This game could have easily turned into another Tennessee. We have 8 games left and 5 are going to be tough to win. We can't afford anymore bad losses and we have to win some of those tough games.

Those are some really big ifs your talking about. If we hit 3s on every possession we win by 70. See how easy that is.

 

[kyjeff1]

And u have to credit UF for cutting into it as well. I mean they missed a ton of shots that first half that they ended up making in the second.

I don't think playing faster would have stopped that from occurring IMO

I don't want UK to play faster. No, no, no, I just want them to play with some motion on offense. I'm fine with milking the clock but wear down their defense, make them work. Move around and make them defend.
If Cal doesn't want to take the shot until there is only 5 on the shot clock than don't shoot until that point but the offense needs to move.

 

[crestcat]

And the answer to the question is obvious. It's a question that's been asked 100 times on the board, and the answer has been the exact same every single time.

Cal prefers to slow it down and limit possessions. This is the way he coaches. He's always done it this way and will continue to do it that way.

Considering he's won 80+% of his games doing it this way, I'm inclined to believe whatever he's doing is working and is right.

Sure, you can point to a few games that UK lost because of that tactic, but I can point to a hundred games they won using the same tactic.

But can you prove they wouldn't have won those games anyway if they hadn't slowed it down? He might be at 85+% if he doesn't slow it down

 

[kyjeff1]

Those are some really big ifs your talking about. If we hit 3s on every possession we win by 70. See how easy that is.

Yeah but IF Auburn and Tennessee didn't hit their shots we have 2 fewer losses and two more wins.
But those teams DID make those shots. And they are not even NIT teams. Just think how it's going to go down in Gainesville, Nashville and college station.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I d isn't want UK to play faster. No, no, no, I just want them to play with some motion on offense. I'm fine with milking the clock but wear down their defense, make them work. Move around and make them defend. If Cal doesn't want to take the shot until there is only 5 on the shot clock than don't shoot until that point but the offense needs to move.

That's a fair point. I agree with that.

And we certainly don't want Briscoe chucking up 3s........that's not the shot we want.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

You just moved the goalposts. You went on a rant earlier in this thread about there being a thread (this one) that was the only negative thread after a 19 point win. Don't change your tune now.

I'm not changing my tune. This is the only thread like that. Some of you just have to bitch about something regardless if it's been a topic of discussion a dozens times before.

You can't find anything substantial to bitch about so you rehash an old topic. Before too long Cut Nets and the other usual suspects will be right along side of you in this thread, bitching about how Cal can't coach.

This thread has been started and answered over and over since Cal has been here. The answer has always been the same. It's not my fault some of you refuse to accept it and just want to keep banging your head against the wall.

Whether you like it or not, it's not going to change. So constantly bitching about it and questioning it is pointless.

 

[kyjeff1]

That's a fair point. I agree with that.

And we certainly don't want Briscoe chucking up 3s........that's not the shot we want.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I think it correlates directly to the free throw differential. We are standing around on offense than settling for long jump shots. If the shots fall we win, if they don't fall we lose. Our guards should be driving the ball. I have no idea why we are playing the way we are on offense. It looks like a recipe for an early departure to me.
Our guards are some of the best in the country, use them to drive to the rack and put pressure on their defense.

 

[DwayneMeighan]

But can you prove they wouldn't have won those games anyway if they hadn't slowed it down? He might be at 85+% if he doesn't slow it down

Same goes for. Can you prove that he would have have won if he didn't slow it down? He could be 60+% if he didn't. See how that works?

You can play ifs, ands or buts all you want. Bottom line is, he did play that way and he did win those games.

 

[.S&C.]

I don't really care about yearly statistics. It's not about the times when those stats pile up. Cal is measured by the NCAA tournament. And we shouldn't play stall ball IMO because it sets a bad tone for the tournament. Never take a play off. Ever.

Cal has been snipped by stall ball and it's cost us a title IMO. But he's the hof'er I get that. It's just a fans opinion.

 

[The_Answer1313]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I think it correlates directly to the free throw differential. We are standing around on offense than settling for long jump shots. If the shots fall we win, if they don't fall we lose. Our guards should be driving the ball. I have no idea why we are playing the way we are on offense. It looks like a recipe for an early departure to me.
Our guards are some of the best in the country, use them to drive to the rack and put pressure on their defense.

Ideally you should do both. Like Cal can still kill the clock but instead of settling for jump shots maybe drive the ball to the hoop with 5 seconds left.

Yeah I have no problem with that.

Thing is we don't really seem to have alot of guys wanting to do that. Briscoe does but can't make free throws. Murray I think would just rather take jump shots. Even in the first half when we were rolling on offense and didn't stall, we didn't take many free throws.

Weird team for Cal. Usually we are the team that's getting to the line more than our opponents. It's just way different this season.

 

[kyjeff1]

I'm not changing my tune. This is the only thread like that. Some of you just have to bitch about something regardless if it's been a topic of discussion a dozens times before.

You can't find anything substantial to bitch about so you rehash an old topic. Before too long Cut Nets and the other usual suspects will be right along side of you in this thread, bitching about how Cal can't coach.

This thread has been started and answered over and over since Cal has been here. The answer has always been the same. It's not my fault some of you refuse to accept it and just want to keep banging your head against the wall.

Whether you like it or not, it's not going to change. So constantly bitching about it and questioning it is pointless.

This thread is different and apparently others are interested in it because there are quite a few people on here that are having a discussion and agreeing about something you have your head in the sand about.
You are the only one pitching a fit about this thread . so maybe the problem is you.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I don't really care about yearly statistics. It's not about the times when those stats pile up. Cal is measured by the NCAA tournament. And we shouldn't play stall ball IMO because it sets a bad tone for the tournament. Never take a play off. Ever.

Cal has been snipped by stall ball and it's cost us a title IMO. But he's the hof'er I get that. It's just a fans opinion.

It's hard to say that tho when it really hasn't. I mean Cal been doing this for the entire time he's been here and we have played our best basketball in March most years.

 

[kyjeff1]

I don't really care about yearly statistics. It's not about the times when those stats pile up. Cal is measured by the NCAA tournament. And we shouldn't play stall ball IMO because it sets a bad tone for the tournament. Never take a play off. Ever.

Cal has been snipped by stall ball and it's cost us a title IMO. But he's the hof'er I get that. It's just a fans opinion.

Wait. Have you cleared this opinion with @DwayneMeighan yet? He obviously disagrees and would rather not talk about it.
I, on the other hand, think your post is spot on.

 

[.S&C.]

It's hard to say that tho when it really hasn't. I mean Cal been doing this for the entire time he's been here and we have played our best basketball in March most years.

He is. But it's the opinion of thoudands that the stall ball has hurt him in some big games. I get you don't believe it.

 

[Untouchables22]

Yeah slowing it down almost cost us the national championship against Kansas...I'm not a fan in general. In particular with this team we seem to play our best uptempo and in transition. However Tyler can't play 35 minutes in an up tempo game which is why we don't do it most likely. Everything has a give and take. But I'm ultimently in the camp that this particular team needs to play uptempo like Roy William's teams to maximize it's potential and deemphasize is defensive deficiencies.

 

[.S&C.]

Wait. Have you cleared this opinion with @DwayneMeighan yet? He obviously disagrees and would rather not talk about it.
I, on the other hand, think your post is spot on.

I know lots of people don't buy it. But lots, I mean lots do. I've spoken in person to many UK fans that hate it.

Message boards are what they are.

 

[kyjeff1]

Ideally you should do both. Like Cal can still kill the clock but instead of settling for jump shots maybe drive the ball to the hoop with 5 seconds left.

Yeah I have no problem with that.

Thing is we don't really seem to have alot of guys wanting to do that. Briscoe does but can't make free throws. Murray I think would just rather take jump shots. Even in the first half when we were rolling on offense and didn't stall, we didn't take many free throws.

Weird team for Cal. Usually we are the team that's getting to the line more than our opponents. It's just way different this season.

Agree with all of this.
It is certainly a very different team, of course, all of Cal's teams have been different. This one still has a long way to go. I think Cal gets it figured out but, IMO, it starts with our stagnant offense.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yeah slowing it down almost cost us the national championship against Kansas...I'm not a fan in general. In particular with this team we seem to play our best uptempo and in transition. However Tyler can't play 35 minutes in an up tempo game which is why we don't do it most likely. Everything has a give and take. But I'm ultimently in the camp that this particular team needs to play uptempo like Roy William's teams to maximize it's potential and deemphasize is defensive decencies.

I'm fine with the tempo, I think there needs to be an even tempo.
Making your players move on offense doesn't have to effect the tempo, it just needs to make the offense more effective.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

He is. But it's the opinion of thoudands that the stall ball has hurt him in some big games. I get you don't believe it.

If the loses are what they chose to focus on then they can say it hurt him but what about all of the wins playing that way. He's won a lot more games playing that way than he's lost. A lot.

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

I dont like milking the clock either when we get a big lead in the 2nd half esp. now that its only a 30 sec. shot clock.

I suppose Cal could be trying to give Ulis a breather without taking him out but it is definately stagnating our offense.

 

[.S&C.]

If the loses are what they chose to focus on then they can say it hurt him but what about all of the wins playing that way. He's won a lot more games playing that way than he's lost. A lot.

Sure, but like I said, cal is not going to be judged by the games in mid season or at the beginning of the year against alcoah state. When we hit the tournament, or in the final four, everything tightens up. The last thing I want is a team full of guys that tighten up with it.

Using stockpiled stats from games that even cal says he doesn't care about doesn't matter to me. Final four record is the big time. I just think it effects those games when the players are used to taking plays off with leads.

 

[kyjeff1]

I dont like milking the clock either when we get a big lead in the 2nd half esp. now that its only a 30 sec. shot clock.

I suppose Cal could be trying to give Ulis a breather without taking him out but it is definately stagnating our offense.

He's not giving Tyler a breather because Tyler is still having to work hard to get open. He is the ONLY player that never stops moving.

The guys that are standing there are the guys that get the most rest. Makes no sense.

 

[.S&C.]

He's not giving Tyler a breather because Tyler is still having to work hard to get open. He is the ONLY player that never stops moving.

The guys that are standing there are the guys that get the most rest. Makes no sense.

Cal said during the call in show resting Ulis has nothing to do with style of play. Out of his own mouth.

 

[KyCatFan]

What did Coach Cal say? He would take talent over experience and we are more talented than 99% of the teams we play. We should expect to win a high percentage of the games and not play down to our opponents level, but by slowing the game down we are doing just that. This team doesn't have the room for error to do that like some of his other teams. That is basically all that I'm saying.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

Sure, but like I said, cal is not going to be judged by the games in mid season or at the beginning of the year against alcoah state. When we hit the tournament, or in the final four, everything tightens up. The last thing I want is a team full of guys that tighten up with it.

Using stockpiled stats from games that even cal says he doesn't care about doesn't matter to me. Final four record is the big time. I just think it effects those games when the players are used to taking plays off with leads.

I wasn't referring to mid season or at the beginning of the year against alcoah state games. I was referring to ncaa tourney games where Cal has a ridiculous winning percentage.

 

[fatguy87]

I'm not sure it's offensive philosophy driven as much as lineup driven. Ulis and Murray both took short rests in the second half and their sub was the worst offensive player on the team, Matthews, and playing alongside him in the backcourt was the second worst offensive player on the team, Briscoe. We went Ulis and Murray with a Matthews-Briscoe-Hump configuration for a portion of our late game drought. Struggles shouldn't be surprising with lineups like that.

Guys get in foul trouble and players need rest. Necessity drives these impotent lineup configurations.