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Scholarship issue?

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May 31, 2003
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Its going to be interesting this spring. I thought about this after NCAA ruling wanting to give kids more time to decide if they want to declare or not. There are going to be transfers after this year. I could see Matthews and Humphries leaving. They are being recruited over already. Matthews lack of an offensive game holds him back as Cal has said and I'm not sure what Cal's concern is with Humphries.
Say Bolden wants to come. Cal is taking him. and don't forget Simmons out there. So here is what you look at with only Murray going pro (more likely than you think):
Freshmen:
Bam
Fox
Monk
SKJ
Gabriel
*Bolden

Soph:
Briscoe
Skal
Matthews
Humphries
Wynard

Jr:
Ulis

Sr:
Willis
Hawkins
Mulder
Lee

So that's 16. Kobi Simmons could make it 17.
 
Simmons and UK is over as he is announcing soon and it will be OSU . also any of the Lee , Briscoe , Ulis and Skal group coming back is a long shot BUT ALL OF THEM coming back is like .00001% . My point is you are worrying about something you shouldn't . Could maybe Briscoe come back if he plays bad the rest of the way ( mind you he has been amazing the last 2 games ) sure but the chances are slim. Even with Skal's play he would still be a lotto pick so he ain't coming back ect . Ulis and Lee have no reason to come back as they are who they are and won't improve their stock especially since next year's class if way way better then this years.
 
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I agree that Cal has a plan. Just interesting to consider on a slow news day. On Skal, didn't nbadraft.net drop him completely out of the first round?
 
I agree that Cal has a plan. Just interesting to consider on a slow news day. On Skal, didn't nbadraft.net drop him completely out of the first round?
LOL Nbadraft.net is a joke of a site but yes. The scouts have said even with his play he has a ton of potential and would be a lotto pick but he might go 12th or something like that but it is way easier to get better in the NBA then in college.
 
The report from a scout that I read said Skal would currently not be drafted in the first round. It's not safe to assume he's coming back at this point, but it's certainly not a given that he's gone either IMO. If he were to leave tomorrow, he would spend multiple years in the D-League. Can't imagine that's what he wants.
 
The report from a scout that I read said Skal would currently not be drafted in the first round. It's not safe to assume he's coming back at this point, but it's certainly not a given that he's gone either IMO. If he were to leave tomorrow, he would spend multiple years in the D-League. Can't imagine that's what he wants.

Do you think that one anonymous scout speaks for all 30 teams?

I don't know what Skal will do, but anonymous scouts say all kinds of stuff. Some of it is on point, but a lot of times it is misdirection.
 
The report from a scout that I read said Skal would currently not be drafted in the first round. It's not safe to assume he's coming back at this point, but it's certainly not a given that he's gone either IMO. If he were to leave tomorrow, he would spend multiple years in the D-League. Can't imagine that's what he wants.

Is this the infamous d-bag scout that another scout from the NBA said shouldn't have a job anywhere in the NBA? If so, I think his credibility is uh.. lacking.
 
There is not only a 0 percent chance just Murray leaves, I'd rate it more at -10% chance that just Murray leaves. I will rate it a 0 percent chance that we have to worry about being over on scholarships. There are plenty of lower tiered players we can kick off scholarship if that was to occur though. Obviously Floreal is not a real scholarship player so counting him against us next year is silly IMO.
 
There is not only a 0 percent chance just Murray leaves, I'd rate it more at -10% chance that just Murray leaves. I will rate it a 0 percent chance that we have to worry about being over on scholarships. There are plenty of lower tiered players we can kick off scholarship if that was to occur though. Obviously Floreal is not a real scholarship player so counting him against us next year is silly IMO.
My initial list doesn't have Floreal on it. Maybe you should spend a minute reading it
 
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Do you think that one anonymous scout speaks for all 30 teams?

I don't know what Skal will do, but anonymous scouts say all kinds of stuff. Some of it is on point, but a lot of times it is misdirection.

No I don't think he speaks for all 30 teams. It's just hard for me to imagine a scenario at this point in the season where an NBA scout sits down with their GM and explains why they think it's a good idea to use their Top 10 pick on Skal Labissiere.

Now let's say Skal drops to the 20's but it looks like he'll get drafted in the first round, which I think is a possible scenario. Is Skal satisfied with that? Is Calipari satisfied with Skal accepting that? Despite his struggles everyone can see that the potential is there to be a top 10 pick, and there is also a huge financial gain for going in the top 10 as opposed to 25th. In fact, it's about a 4+ million dollar difference over the course of the two year contract.

I'm not saying he will or won't go. I am saying that if the season ended tomorrow I'd say there is a close to zero chance that he goes in the lottery and would be a late first rounder at best. Excluding significant improvement this season, I think he's the type of player that has a lot to gain both financially and skill-wise by returning, not to mention it potentially saves him from spending multiple years in the D-League.
 
I think it's a crapshoot. If he comes back and struggles a second year, he may drop completely off the board.
 
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Its going to be interesting this spring. I thought about this after NCAA ruling wanting to give kids more time to decide if they want to declare or not. There are going to be transfers after this year. I could see Matthews and Humphries leaving. They are being recruited over already. Matthews lack of an offensive game holds him back as Cal has said and I'm not sure what Cal's concern is with Humphries.
Say Bolden wants to come. Cal is taking him. and don't forget Simmons out there. So here is what you look at with only Murray going pro (more likely than you think):
Freshmen:
Bam
Fox
Monk
SKJ
Gabriel
*Bolden

Soph:
Briscoe
Skal
Matthews
Humphries
Wynard

Jr:
Ulis

Sr:
Willis
Hawkins
Mulder
Lee

So that's 16. Kobi Simmons could make it 17.

First of all, I don't think Cal is "recruiting over" Matthews and Humphries. And think there is little chance either leave.
Matthews does need to work on his offensive game, like Liggins, and I think Cal would love to have a Liggins type player.
Humphries is big, but needs to get quicker and stronger for defense.
Murray could be the only one going pro. But I think there is a good chance that Ulis and Poythress and Skal do too, and a decent chance that Briscoe does. Although I would advise Briscoe to stay & work on his shot. I'm sure Skal will be advised to stay (unless he makes a transformation in the next 2 months to someone who can at least EARN 20-25 mpg), but his guardian may still push him to declare.

I see next year as:
FR: Bam, Fox, SKJ, Monk, Gabriel, maybe Bolden and/or Simmons
SO: Matthews, Humphries, Wynyard, maybe Briscoe, possibly Skal
JR: possibly Ulis
SR: Willis, Hawkins, Mulder, Lee, possibly but doubtful Poythress (could apply for 5th yr)

My odds of going pro are:
Murray 99%
Poythress 90%
Skal 80%
Briscoe 75%
Ulis 65%

All 5 are more likely to go than not, but as a group odds are 1 of them returns. Add that 1 to the other returning 7 and the 5 we have already signed, that means we don't have room for Bolden or Simmons. But if all 5 go, decent possibility (35% chance), then we have room for Simmons OR Bolden.
 
My initial list doesn't have Floreal on it. Maybe you should spend a minute reading it

Fair enough. My apologies. Just have seen several of these threads with that mistake so I'll freely admit I did not scan every single part of your OP. I still do not see scholarship issues arising though.
 
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I think there is a better chance that Ulis leaves than some people are thinking. He has been great this season, has received a lot of national attention, and is the type of player that has a limited ceiling in terms of how high he could climb on a draft board. I think there's a decent chance that after the season he evaluates where he's at and asks himself if there's anything to gain by returning. I would obviously love for him to return and it's very possible that he will, but I think we also have to recognize that it's very possible he leaves as well.
 
exactly. There's never gonna be a scholarship issue. It's not like Cal is sitting in his office shaking looking at the roster wondering "what the hell happened? I'm 2 over. Dear God."

It always works out. If he's still recruiting someone hard, there will be a spot for em.

I totally pictures the scenario and rolled [roll]
 
Its going to be interesting this spring. I thought about this after NCAA ruling wanting to give kids more time to decide if they want to declare or not. There are going to be transfers after this year. I could see Matthews and Humphries leaving. They are being recruited over already. Matthews lack of an offensive game holds him back as Cal has said and I'm not sure what Cal's concern is with Humphries.
Say Bolden wants to come. Cal is taking him. and don't forget Simmons out there. So here is what you look at with only Murray going pro (more likely than you think):
Freshmen:
Bam
Fox
Monk
SKJ
Gabriel
*Bolden

Soph:
Briscoe
Skal
Matthews
Humphries
Wynard

Jr:
Ulis

Sr:
Willis
Hawkins
Mulder
Lee

So that's 16. Kobi Simmons could make it 17.
I also think that IF it came down to it...Dom and Willis would do the "Kentucky kid thing" and give up their scholarships.
Wynard may also transfer, since he is riding the pine...JK, JK
 
First of all, I don't think Cal is "recruiting over" Matthews and Humphries. And think there is little chance either leave.
Matthews does need to work on his offensive game, like Liggins, and I think Cal would love to have a Liggins type player.
Humphries is big, but needs to get quicker and stronger for defense.
Murray could be the only one going pro. But I think there is a good chance that Ulis and Poythress and Skal do too, and a decent chance that Briscoe does. Although I would advise Briscoe to stay & work on his shot. I'm sure Skal will be advised to stay (unless he makes a transformation in the next 2 months to someone who can at least EARN 20-25 mpg), but his guardian may still push him to declare.

I see next year as:
FR: Bam, Fox, SKJ, Monk, Gabriel, maybe Bolden and/or Simmons
SO: Matthews, Humphries, Wynyard, maybe Briscoe, possibly Skal
JR: possibly Ulis
SR: Willis, Hawkins, Mulder, Lee, possibly but doubtful Poythress (could apply for 5th yr)

My odds of going pro are:
Murray 99%
Poythress 90%
Skal 80%
Briscoe 75%
Ulis 65%

All 5 are more likely to go than not, but as a group odds are 1 of them returns. Add that 1 to the other returning 7 and the 5 we have already signed, that means we don't have room for Bolden or Simmons. But if all 5 go, decent possibility (35% chance), then we have room for Simmons OR Bolden.


I guess it depends upon your definition of "recruiting over"..

If we get Bolden to go with Bam do you think Hump plays as much as these guys?

How about Gabriel and Mathews?

If the new guys start over or play more than the returnees it is usually considered being recruited over.
 
Briscoe and Lee will leave along with Murray, and maybe Ulis IMO. There's a chance Skal comes back and if he'd add 25lbs of muscle, get stronger, more physical, more aggressive, and have more confidence he could be an absolute force next year. But as of now this is my prediction on our roster next year but there's literally like 20 possibilities

Ulis
Fox
Monk
Gabriel
Bam

Bolden
SKJ
Mathews
Willis
Mulder
Hawkins
Humphries
Wynyard

Here's another possibility.

Fox
Monk
Gabriel
Bam
Skal

Bolden
SKJ
Mathews
Willis
Mulder
Hawkins
Humphries
Wynyard

So which team is better???? Mos def the one where Ulis comes back.
 
I think one of Wynyard or Humphries transfer. And like the OP said it wouldn't surprise me if Mathews did. As much as Briscoe gets on my nerves I had rather have him back than Mathews. But lol he'd have to be cool with being the 6th man
 
Scholarships always work themselves out. ALWAYS.

But it's fun to discuss.

My opinion:

Murray is gone. Poythress is gone.

At least one of Ulis or Briscoe will leave. Likely both.

Lee is very likely to leave, but he might not.

Labissiere could get drafted on potential.

We won't get Lee and Labissiere both back.

If Ulis or Briscoe comes back, Floreal goes back to walk on status.

If Lee or Labissiere returns, Bolden does not come here (no room).

So:

1. Fox
2. Monk
3. Gabriel
4. Adebayo
5. Killeya-Jones
6. Matthews
7. Humphries
8. Wynyard
9. Mulder
10. Willis
11. Hawkins
12. Floreal or Ulis or Briscoe
13. Bolden or Lee or Labissiere
 
Its going to be interesting this spring. I thought about this after NCAA ruling wanting to give kids more time to decide if they want to declare or not. There are going to be transfers after this year. I could see Matthews and Humphries leaving. They are being recruited over already. Matthews lack of an offensive game holds him back as Cal has said and I'm not sure what Cal's concern is with Humphries.
Say Bolden wants to come. Cal is taking him. and don't forget Simmons out there. So here is what you look at with only Murray going pro (more likely than you think):
Freshmen:
Bam
Fox
Monk
SKJ
Gabriel
*Bolden

Soph:
Briscoe
Skal
Matthews
Humphries
Wynard

Jr:
Ulis

Sr:
Willis
Hawkins
Mulder
Lee

So that's 16. Kobi Simmons could make it 17.
I've brought up this very subject a couple of times in the last week or two. I'm sure Cal has a plan and an expectation, but some things simply can't be guaranteed to happen. Blowing off the possibility of a scholarship issue seems as ridiculous as insisting there will be one. In all likelihood, everything will work out fine but I do find the situation very interesting.

Current Scholarships:

Poythress
Lee
Mulder
Willis
Hawkins
Floreal
Ulis
Murray
Skal
Briscoe
Humphries
Tai
Matthews

Thats our 13, we've already signed 5 and Cal says he plans to add another big. That is 6 coming in next year, so now we're at 19.
-Poythress
-Floreal
-Murray

Those are carved in stone, so now we're back down to 16.

Skal: He will almost certainly leave, however I do think leaving too early will end any chance he has at a long career. He isn't ready to compete at that level and you only get a 2 year guarantee. The NBA isn't going to wait on him. They will move on. I hope Cal isn't encouraging him to leave. I suspect Skal has said he is leaving no matter what. I'll wish the best for him.

Now we're at 15 and we come to the iffy group of Lee, Briscoe and Ulis. Lee will be a second rounder this year. He could really use another year of learning the game, but next years draft will be a lot tougher and he would probably still be a 2nd rounder. At any rate, another year of really learning the game would be of great service to him. Briscoe will probably be a 1st rounder if he can keep that mid range game going. If he reverts to nothing more than a driving guard who can't shoot, I don't see how he gets into the 1st round, but then again, this year is a weak draft. Finally we have Tyler. Tyler can physically mature more if he stays which would help him play against the men in the NBA, but he is already a great floor general and his toughness makes up for a lot of his size issues. His shooting is a concern but I think someone will take him in the 2nd round in a heartbeat. So, its possible all 3 could go, but depending on the rest of the season, 0-3 of this group could go. To take Bolden, 2 of the 3 have to go and Skal does as well, whether he should or not. I guess if all three of this last group go, Skal could stay.

It will be an interesting spring. We could run out of scholarships and we could also be in a position to add Bolden plus 1.

I don't think I ever remember UK having a situation quite like this one.
 
Scholarships always work themselves out. ALWAYS.

But it's fun to discuss.

My opinion:

Murray is gone. Poythress is gone.

At least one of Ulis or Briscoe will leave. Likely both.

Lee is very likely to leave, but he might not.

Labissiere could get drafted on potential.

We won't get Lee and Labissiere both back.

If Ulis or Briscoe comes back, Floreal goes back to walk on status.

If Lee or Labissiere returns, Bolden does not come here (no room).

So:

1. Fox
2. Monk
3. Gabriel
4. Adebayo
5. Killeya-Jones
6. Matthews
7. Humphries
8. Wynyard
9. Mulder
10. Willis
11. Hawkins
12. Floreal or Ulis or Briscoe
13. Bolden or Lee or Labissiere

I don't see a situation where Floreal will get to keep his scholarship. Remember, Cal said he plans to add 1 more big man, so lets call your line 12. Bolden (or another big man recruit). To me, that leaves you at this:

12. Bolden (or another big man recruit)
13. Ulis, Briscoe, Lee, Labissiere or another recruit

And the slim possibility of a real mess. I wonder if Willis or Hawkins would be in the position to give up their scholarship in case the unexpected happens.
 
I think one of Wynyard or Humphries transfer. And like the OP said it wouldn't surprise me if Mathews did. As much as Briscoe gets on my nerves I had rather have him back than Mathews. But lol he'd have to be cool with being the 6th man
Why would they want to transfer.
 
I guess it depends upon your definition of "recruiting over"..

If we get Bolden to go with Bam do you think Hump plays as much as these guys?

How about Gabriel and Mathews?

If the new guys start over or play more than the returnees it is usually considered being recruited over.
Do you think Cal considers it "recruiting over", or just recruiting. A older guy can either give up or get better, its up to him. Cal wouldn't have recruited them in the first place if he didn't think they were capable of becoming an integral part of the team.
 
What I read on my wall is:

Murray
Skal
Lee
Ulis
Briscoe

and
Poy are gone. No Poy will not be back...no matter, no how...5th year or whatever...nope...

The wildcard to me is Willis. I think he may declare, win lose or draw...

The rest, ...who knows. Hey, it's MY wall. :D This coming from a guy who knows no basketball strategy...but I like it.
 
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Do you think Cal considers it "recruiting over", or just recruiting. A older guy can either give up or get better, its up to him. Cal wouldn't have recruited them in the first place if he didn't think they were capable of becoming an integral part of the team.


Again, I think it is interpretation.

If your starting position is taken by a new recruit, or as a nonstarter if your minutes have been reduced in a major way to a new recruit then you have been recruited over in my book.

That is not to say that you now suck and dont deserve any clock.

Happens all the time, every year with new recruits and with pro drafts.


How do you define "recruited over"?
 
Again, I think it is interpretation.

If your starting position is taken by a new recruit, or as a nonstarter if your minutes have been reduced in a major way to a new recruit then you have been recruited over in my book.

That is not to say that you now suck and dont deserve any clock.

Happens all the time, every year with new recruits and with pro drafts.


How do you define "recruited over"?

That missed my point. I understand what you're saying. I don't think Cal looks at it as recruiting over. I think he sees it as increased competition. In Cals world, you lose minutes because you aren't earning them not simply because a new recruit came in.
 
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If you look at most of the 2016 Mock Draft Boards that will answer your Scholarship question. Most still have Skal going in the Top 10, Murray latest was #5 and most have him in Top 10, Briscoe is #26 and most have him near bottom of 1st Round to top of 2nd round in the draft. Then most have Ulis, Poy,and Lee going in the 2nd Round and Ulis is like Booker last year and he is starting to move near the 1st Round Pick if he continues to score near 20 and assists near 10. Lee and Poy are in middle of 2nd Round and they are not going t move up much from there this year or next if they stay. Most kids now are going into the NBA Draft if they are projected to go in the 1st or 2nd Round of the draft. That would mean probably 5 to 6 will be leaving after this year. Also, about Poy with sitting out last year he has now been here 4 years and will be graduated so I think he is ready to leave and put his name in the draft. There was talks about Poy going last year but he decided to stay one more year with his knee injury and rehab.
 
First of all, I don't think Cal is "recruiting over" Matthews and Humphries. And think there is little chance either leave.
Matthews does need to work on his offensive game, like Liggins, and I think Cal would love to have a Liggins type player.
Humphries is big, but needs to get quicker and stronger for defense.
Murray could be the only one going pro. But I think there is a good chance that Ulis and Poythress and Skal do too, and a decent chance that Briscoe does. Although I would advise Briscoe to stay & work on his shot. I'm sure Skal will be advised to stay (unless he makes a transformation in the next 2 months to someone who can at least EARN 20-25 mpg), but his guardian may still push him to declare.

I see next year as:
FR: Bam, Fox, SKJ, Monk, Gabriel, maybe Bolden and/or Simmons
SO: Matthews, Humphries, Wynyard, maybe Briscoe, possibly Skal
JR: possibly Ulis
SR: Willis, Hawkins, Mulder, Lee, possibly but doubtful Poythress (could apply for 5th yr)

My odds of going pro are:
Murray 99%
Poythress 90%
Skal 80%
Briscoe 75%
Ulis 65%

All 5 are more likely to go than not, but as a group odds are 1 of them returns. Add that 1 to the other returning 7 and the 5 we have already signed, that means we don't have room for Bolden or Simmons. But if all 5 go, decent possibility (35% chance), then we have room for Simmons OR Bolden.

Its going to be interesting this spring. I thought about this after NCAA ruling wanting to give kids more time to decide if they want to declare or not. There are going to be transfers after this year. I could see Matthews and Humphries leaving. They are being recruited over already. Matthews lack of an offensive game holds him back as Cal has said and I'm not sure what Cal's concern is with Humphries.
Say Bolden wants to come. Cal is taking him. and don't forget Simmons out there. So here is what you look at with only Murray going pro (more likely than you think):
Freshmen:
Bam
Fox
Monk
SKJ
Gabriel
*Bolden

Soph:
Briscoe
Skal
Matthews
Humphries
Wynard

Jr:
Ulis

Sr:
Willis
Hawkins
Mulder
Lee

So that's 16. Kobi Simmons could make it 17.

If Briscoe keeps having games like the last two, he will be gone too. Simmons ain't coming.
 
Floreal will definitely lose his scholarship (doesn't need it). No one can drop to walk on if they were recruited here so you all can drop Hawkins and Willis from the list of giving up scholarships. Poythress may stay if he gets his 5th year. He just doesn't look that worried about going pro. Maybe he transfers to another school that has a major there that UK doesn't for his 5th year. Isn't he working toward his Master's degree now?

I think if we add anyone else it might not happen until we know who is going pro for sure. Murray plays a little selfishly in my opinion (sometimes a good thing and sometimes a bad thing) and is definitely gone. I think Briscoe is also gone regardless. Lee is probably not going to get any better coming back and he should go. I would like Ulis to come back, but I don't know which way he is leaning. Depending on how the season ends for the team, he may want a chance to finish his career on a better note like the Harrisons tried to.

It is definitely going to be an interesting start to the off-season.
 
I imagine that all will work out - usually does.
Poy is gone; I think Lee goes - given this year's draft, it may be his best shot. I think Skal is gone; and Murray
Briscoe is 50/50, right now
I think Ulis comes back one more year. Willis and Hawk will be seniors, can't imagine them transferring out. Next year we'll be the favorite, I believe, - Tyler will want to be part of that, as will Derek and Dom.

Just my opinion - no real rhyme or reason to it.
 
If Kentucky makes it to the Elite 8 or further, I could see 6 players leaving, but for instance if they lose in the 2nd round, I can't imagine 6 players also leaving, as others have alluded to, I think Ulis is a competitor and wouldn't like going out that way. I think Murray and Poythress are obviously gone for sure, and I think at least one of Ulis and Briscoe are gone. I do think that the new rules allowing players to have more feedback from NBA teams makes it more likely that there's not a mass exodus as in the past.
 
I don't understand the logic of some fans. Some are mad we're not that great this year and complain about certain players.. then seemingly want them to stay.. or they seem concerned they're getting "recruited over." So, would you prefer Cal not keep recruiting the elite of the elite for the same position so he can wait and see if someone develops or not?

Cal doesn't have time for that -- and neither do we. Plus, isn't that Cal's philosophy that you'll improve in practice by going against the best of the best.. even if minutes are sacrificed?
 
If Kentucky makes it to the Elite 8 or further, I could see 6 players leaving, but for instance if they lose in the 2nd round, I can't imagine 6 players also leaving, as others have alluded to, I think Ulis is a competitor and wouldn't like going out that way. I think Murray and Poythress are obviously gone for sure, and I think at least one of Ulis and Briscoe are gone. I do think that the new rules allowing players to have more feedback from NBA teams makes it more likely that there's not a mass exodus as in the past.


I agree, it will be very interesting to see how the new rules will effect players decisions.

Cal had a parent tell him they didn't want him to acquire feedback and the kid apparently left without it. Eluded to last year I believe.

With this new rule a player cannot ignore what the NBA says.

Briscoe, Lee, Tyler and Alex would all benefit from this information. Assuming all are invited to the combine.
 
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