Refs to know

[the nail at the foul line]

Here are some guys to keep your eyes on when they call UK games. As pointed out by so many, no ref has ever had a bias. They are perfectly fair:


Number 1 Tie
First needs no photo. Or named.
Roger Ayers

Go large on opponent.

3
Doug Sirmons

4
Jamie Luckie.. disruptive to flow of game

5
Pat Adams

6
Brian Shey

Shey watching Sirmons eject Cal at South Carolina.

No photos needed
7 Doug Shows
8 Teddy Vee
9 Tony Greene

10 KIPP Kissinger

Often confused with Shey. As is Carstensen..all Mr Clean.

11
Verne Harris

12 Mike Eades

Now guys that seem to have better eye doctors. People good at their job. So good you rarely notice them.

Ron Groover

Anthony Jordan

All of these guys are very fair. Outstanding humans. The last two have better vision.

If we are deep in tourney and you see Ayers, Eades and Sirmons, it was a good year.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Adams, Jordan,Sirmons and Groover jump out at me from this group. Then Greene and Luckie on the next level.

 

[Titpwhami2014]

I think Tony Greene gets a bad rap on this on board. He misses some calls but I don’t think there is a UK or Cal bias like you see with guys like Sirmons or Higgins.

 

[DidneyWorl]

#1 "Come'on K, you know I got you covered"

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Adams, Jordan,Sirmons and Groover jump out at me from this group. Then Greene and Luckie on the next level.

I would take Groover every game until he proves me wrong.

 

[jrpross]

Pat Adams is awful. He’s the dude that tried to eject a freakin radio play-by-play announcer.

 

[Ben101er]

I don't think Kissinger is anti-UK. In the 7 UK games he has officiated, only once were there more fouls called on UK than the opponent. Plus, we were 5-2 in those games. Nothing like our boy Johnny.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I don't think Kissinger is anti-UK. In the 7 UK games he has officiated, only once were there more fouls called on UK than the opponent. Plus, we were 5-2 in those games. Nothing like our boy Johnny.

I agree. I put him on because he looks like Shey.

Trying to put some common refs people should know. Not all are bad.

7, 8, 9 went through times but are often good.

 

[Ben101er]

I agree. I put him on because he looks like Shey.

Trying to put some common refs people should know. Not all are bad.

7, 8, 9 went through times but are often good.

OK. I also think TV Teddy is not as bad as most let on. He has called some pretty good games with us playing the past 2-3 years. He does sometimes try to make a spectacular call, but overall I think he has graded out pretty well when we play.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I would take this guy over first 5.

 

[bbncal02]

Pat Adams is awful. He’s the dude that tried to eject a freakin radio play-by-play announcer.

As much as I hate Higgins, at least he’s never done that. I watched that happen live and was like “WTH?!” Pat Adams is not biased per se but just AWFUL at his job.

 

[Double Tay]

Pat Adams need to be way higher on that list. And Shay’s officiating this weekend was about ad bad a game as you can possibly officiate sans UNC

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I saw a game today where a guy bounced the ball hard at end when team hit free throw to put it away. Ball hit Groover. He grabbed ball and passed it to shooter. Pat would have teed up the guy.

 

[JPScott]

I agree. I put him on because he looks like Shey.

Trying to put some common refs people should know. Not all are bad.

7, 8, 9 went through times but are often good.

Yes, I was going to say not all of these refs are bad, some of them are pretty good. And people like Tony Greene and even Ted Valentine are nearly as awful as people like to act.

FYI, the only thing I don't like about Tony Greene is he tends to call bogus charges from out of his area. Other than that he's a pretty good referee.

To give some people an idea of recent referees who have called a number of UK games over the years, below is a type of chart I've been putting together showing referees in different eras.

Below is such a chart showing recent referees who have reffed at least 10 UK games in the past. The X-axis shows UK winning % while the y-axis is the average of the time period that they referreed. (So for example if a ref's 1st UK game is in 2005 and his last is in 2015, he would show up at 2010.)

The size of the bubble indicates the number of UK games refereed. Unfortunaely the two biggest bubbles in this chart (Tony Green and Doug Shows) are almost on top of each other so they're harder to see.

Of course it should go without saying that UK's win% is not necessarily an indication of how good or bad the referee is, but it is interesting information.

 

[JC43]

As always @JPScott your info and graphing skills puts things in perspective. Thank you

 

[Aike]

I think Tony Greene gets a bad rap on this on board. He misses some calls but I don’t think there is a UK or Cal bias like you see with guys like Sirmons or Higgins.

I think Tony Greene might cheat. Doesn’t mean he always cheats against us. Definitely get the feeling some nights that he bet us to cover.

 

[Poetax]

I think Tony Greene gets a bad rap on this on board. He misses some calls but I don’t think there is a UK or Cal bias like you see with guys like Sirmons or Higgins.

Not a Greene fan.

 

[TheBlueMax]

Here are some guys to keep your eyes on when they call UK games. As pointed out by so many, no ref has ever had a bias. They are perfectly fair:


Number 1 Tie
First needs no photo. Or named.
Roger Ayers

Go large on opponent.

3
Doug Sirmons

4
Jamie Luckie.. disruptive to flow of game

5
Pat Adams

6
Brian Shey

Shey watching Sirmons eject Cal at South Carolina.

No photos needed
7 Doug Shows
8 Teddy Vee
9 Tony Greene

10 KIPP Kissinger

Often confused with Shey. As is Carstensen..all Mr Clean.

11
Verne Harris

12 Mike Eades

Now guys that seem to have better eye doctors. People good at their job. So good you rarely notice them.

Ron Groover

Anthony Jordan

All of these guys are very fair. Outstanding humans. The last two have better vision.

If we are deep in tourney and you see Ayers, Eades and Sirmons, it was a good year.

I would like to acknowledge one of yesterday's (UNCG at UK) referees. He is Jason Baker, who was a superb high school referee in Kentucky's Second Region. I coached there several years ago, and when we would know Jason was doing our game, we knew he would do a professional job. He was possibly the best in the region and in the entire state. We could "blacklist" certain referees--obviously, he never was on our list. We expected him to get to the college ranks, and I was thrilled to see him get a UK assignment yesterday. In my opinion, watching from just off the floor, he called a fine game and performed far better than his two colleagues.

I do think Groover has turned out to be one of the best. I like Shows more than most (so it seems) on this board, and I wish and hope Pat Adams knows these kids better and that that familiarization helps him call a game...good referees should use discretion when it comes to technical fouls and making judgment calls that involve game-altering penalties.

Jason did a great job yesterday and we can expect he'll be really solid going forward. We coaches in the western part of the state knew it would happen for him, so good for him.

 

[hotelblue]

a real swell group.

 

[IL Wildcat]

Here are some guys to keep your eyes on when they call UK games. As pointed out by so many, no ref has ever had a bias. They are perfectly fair:


Number 1 Tie
First needs no photo. Or named.
Roger Ayers

Go large on opponent.

3
Doug Sirmons

4
Jamie Luckie.. disruptive to flow of game

5
Pat Adams

6
Brian Shey

Shey watching Sirmons eject Cal at South Carolina.

No photos needed
7 Doug Shows
8 Teddy Vee
9 Tony Greene

10 KIPP Kissinger

Often confused with Shey. As is Carstensen..all Mr Clean.

11
Verne Harris

12 Mike Eades

Now guys that seem to have better eye doctors. People good at their job. So good you rarely notice them.

Ron Groover

Anthony Jordan

All of these guys are very fair. Outstanding humans. The last two have better vision.

If we are deep in tourney and you see Ayers, Eades and Sirmons, it was a good year.

The game Saturday was probably Brian Shay's worst I've ever seen. I don't know if it was intentional bias or not, but it was awful. If he didn't receive some kind of negative feedback for that one, I would question the folks officiating the officials. I've only noticed him being really bad a few times, so his may have just been an example of a bad game.

Sirmons is always biased against UK.
Shows is just incompetent in my opinion. I don't think he has bias, just a huge ego that clouds his judgment.
Pat Adams is another who is just not very good in intense games.
Ayers is a guy who tends to play Equalizer out there- helps the underdog

I almost always like Eades, Kissinger, Grooves, and Jordan. They seem only interested in doing their job and staying out of the way.

 

[Rickat]

Luckie is all-time worst. Just not a lot of recent history.

 

[etowncatfan]

Jason Baker may be a GREAT Ref. I just find it hard to have a guy ref the game with that close of Kentucky ties.

 

[crestcat]

Pat Adams seems to have rabbit ears and will screw you to show you he is in charge, dangerous referee

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Left off Joe Lindsay. Rarely notice because he is good.

Looks like Groover.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Jason Baker may be a GREAT Ref. I just find it hard to have a guy ref the game with that close of Kentucky ties.

DeRosa lived in Paducah. Not sure if he still does. And he's knocking on the door for top five worst.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Luckie is all-time worst. Just not a lot of recent history.

He is definitely the hardest ref to watch a game of.... uses his whistle way too much.

 

[qwesley]

Luckie is all-time worst. Just not a lot of recent history.

Luckie oozes jackassery
Shows is arrogant, loves blowing the whistle
Sirmons hates Cal
Adams is a moron
Greene is good to us these days, he hated BCG though
Anthony Jordan is good for road teams
Shey is quickly moving up the shitlist, was purposely brutal Sat.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I remember the days when greene and Valentine were considered the worst. Tells you how far it's really fallen. They're top notch compared to the newer guys.

It's just a matter of time before it's discovered at least one ref is on the take. Happened in the NBA. And we know how much money shoe companies were throwing around. Add in move money and there's millions of reasons to explain why some of these guys call games the way they do.

I think that's the more likely explanation. No way all these guys are truly that bad at their job and still hanging around

 

[JPScott]

DeRosa lived in Paducah. Not sure if he still does. And he's knocking on the door for top five worst.

A number of basketball guys give Joe DeRosa credit because he used to ref in the NBA, but I agree with you he's one of the worst. If anything I think coming from the NBA back to college is not a great sign, as after the Tim Donaghy scandal I believe the NBA cleaned up their refs a lot (and it's shown by an improvement in quality), and a number of guys were left out after the reorganization, probably for good reason.

Although that doesn't always hold. Guys like Vladimir Voyard-Tadal and Michael Stephens etc. are current and/or ex-NBA refs doing college games and they're very good IMO.

FYI, you mentioned you think some refs are on the take. To me one big warning sign is when you have a new ref come in who's excellent and then at some point they inexplicably become terrible. Those are the ones that I tend to keep a close eye on.

One example is Roger Ayers. I used to think he was excellent, now I think he's terrible. John Higgins is another example, to a lesser extent.

 

[Cat_Incognito]

I thought Pat Adams was going to hang it up after that incident last year where a player was trying to talk to him and he blew the kid off, or something like that. Anybody remember?

 

[the nail at the foul line]

I thought Pat Adams was going to hang it up after that incident last year where a player was trying to talk to him and he blew the kid off, or something like that. Anybody remember?

Valentine