ADVERTISEMENT

Refocusing on the future of Mark Stoops' football program

Blue Decade

All-American
May 3, 2013
10,266
5,978
113
It has been unfortunate to see some fans lose their focus this week. I am at a posting milestone that pales in comparison to what some here have done. But anyway, I will offer my thoughts on moving forward and getting refocused. Will be interested to see other people's thoughts on this.

When I read a post, I never know whether the poster is young or old, a former or current UK student or not, an experienced football fan or not. It makes a difference. Building an SEC football team takes time. Fans who point to Vandy are citing an aberration that fell apart in 2014. Ole Miss may turn out to be a rare exception. But most of the time, a new coach needs several years to rebuild an SEC football program. Stoops won 2 games in 2013, then 5 games in 2014. Things are trending in the right direction. The best players on our roster are sophomores, freshmen, and graduating high school seniors. There is every reason to be optimistic, and no reason to post otherwise.

Way too many fans react to each game and each recruit like it is the end of the world. This suggests the fan is young, or else the fan does not understand about the realities of program building. Our fans should recognize season by season improvement, and appreciate the future impact of strategies like nutrition and great conditioning. Above all, we have to understand that recruiting cannot be measured in weeks or months. This takes multiple years.

Choosing a college is a personal matter. Every year, thousands of high school players commit to colleges. Every year, Kentucky's coaches sign 25 new players. We never get every player we want. No team does. Stoops' recruiting has been our best in more than a generation. The most important event in the last week was Vince Marrow signing a contract extension to stay in Lexington. If anyone thinks otherwise, it is time to wake up.

Football is a team game. Teams and recruiting classes do not depend on 1 player. The idea that teams can sign every good player in their state is a myth. No team consistently does that. Successful teams step up and handle adversity. Excuses are for losers. Bashing teenagers is for losers. Winners look for opportunities to improve and overachieve. Winners don't bash teenagers over a college decision. Winners move on and look for the next opportunity.

I think Boom is our best running back since Rafael Little, but I worry about his concussions. I hope Boom can complete his career healthy. Mikel Horton will also be a star at UK, but I am concerned about depth in this kind of an offense. I like Heard, but he hasn't been fully healthy and he is a senior now. Say what you want about Jo Jo Kemp, but he has not played much because he isn't getting the job done in practice. Clemons is a great story, but he isn't physically sound enough to play much. So we need another running back. Andrew Dowell is already committed, but might get moved to the defense. Darrin Hall is 1 of the best running backs in the midwest. Fans who talk down Hall are just pouting, and don't know what they are talking about. Would love to sign Hall if possible. If that happens, it's big for the future. If it doesn't, we move on.

However, the talk about running backs kinda misses the point for 2015. To win in the SEC, we have to speed up the game and wear down our opponents. To do that, we need to improve in 3 key areas. Right now, running back is not 1 of our primary areas of need. Another good running back would be nice, but our 2015 season does not depend on it. The primary areas of need are defensive depth, wide receiver, and offensive line. Stoops knows we cannot speed up our offense unless we have more quality defensive depth. When you speed up your offense, you leave more time on the clock and create more snaps for your defense. We need enough defensive players to handle all those extra plays. Right now, we don't have them. That's why the top goal in this class is adding more quality defenders. And that's why Javon Provitt, Anthony Rush, Josh Smith, Nate Dalton, Von Davis, and Marcus Lewis are the most important players left on the board. The next recruiting goal is receivers. Last year, there was a myth that our receivers were a position of strength. They weren't. We really missed Montgomery and Badet. Our freshman receivers are promising, but it was a learning year for them. Now, Blue and Robinson are graduating. Snodgrass and Greenwood will be good additions, but we need more receivers. That's why Tavin Richardson and AD Miller are important. It isn't a secret that our offensive line was the weak point on our 2014 team. We already have a lot of good young offensive linemen in the program, but adding Rob Dowdy will be a big help. If we improve these three areas of our team, we get a lot better. There are still plenty of scholarships left to get all of this done. We can take at least 8 more players. So it isn't a question of either-or, as some posters have been saying. We can cover all of these needs in the class.

Too many people are focused on the final 6 games of 2014. We were dogs in all 6 of those games. Don't miss the forest for the trees. 2014 was much better than 2013. The way things are going, 2015 should be better than 2014. Towles is only a sophomore. He will play better in 2015, or else he will lose his job to Barker. Whichever quarterback plays, our offense will be better because our line and our receivers will improve. Our offense will play faster because our coaches will have more confidence in our defensive depth. We also have the SEC's best placekicker and 1 of the best punters returning. And, thank goodness, Coach Marrow is coming back. Things are looking up. So it's time to stop crying over 1 player, focus on the big picture, move forward, and support our coaches.
 
Messenger is back or an excerpt of a long novel.

Not sure what you wrote but sure you mean well. Just too damn long.
Bottom line in all of this

Mark Stoops is the best thing to happen to UK FB in a long time, this is a minor blimp in the scheme of things, UK is recruiting etc.. UK needs to win some of these battles to move up the food chain in time, not the end of world. We realize that Bama and the pick is easy to see as we have been told by everyone. Not the end of world etc. is true, he made a mistake or he made a great business decision.

I am sure that is what you said. Believe me, UK and Mark Stoops are ok, he best thing to happen in a long time. Just need to get our share of players and can't afford to miss on many.
IMO
 
UK has GOT to get better defensive play. They've GOT to stop people. We've been waiting on many to start making plays, Hatcher, Flannigan, McWilson, etc. It's time they step to the forefront. If not we'll see more struggles.

Messenger?? God, I hope not.
 
Originally posted by Blue Decade:
It has been unfortunate to see some fans lose their focus this week. I am at a posting milestone that pales in comparison to what some here have done. But anyway, I will offer my thoughts on moving forward and getting refocused. Will be interested to see other people's thoughts on this.

When I read a post, I never know whether the poster is young or old, a former or current UK student or not, an experienced football fan or not. It makes a difference. Building an SEC football team takes time. Fans who point to Vandy are citing an aberration that fell apart in 2014. Ole Miss may turn out to be a rare exception. But most of the time, a new coach needs several years to rebuild an SEC football program. Stoops won 2 games in 2013, then 5 games in 2014. Things are trending in the right direction. The best players on our roster are sophomores, freshmen, and graduating high school seniors. There is every reason to be optimistic, and no reason to post otherwise.

Way too many fans react to each game and each recruit like it is the end of the world. This suggests the fan is young, or else the fan does not understand about the realities of program building. Our fans should recognize season by season improvement, and appreciate the future impact of strategies like nutrition and great conditioning. Above all, we have to understand that recruiting cannot be measured in weeks or months. This takes multiple years.

Choosing a college is a personal matter. Every year, thousands of high school players commit to colleges. Every year, Kentucky's coaches sign 25 new players. We never get every player we want. No team does. Stoops' recruiting has been our best in more than a generation. The most important event in the last week was Vince Marrow signing a contract extension to stay in Lexington. If anyone thinks otherwise, it is time to wake up.

Football is a team game. Teams and recruiting classes do not depend on 1 player. The idea that teams can sign every good player in their state is a myth. No team consistently does that. Successful teams step up and handle adversity. Excuses are for losers. Bashing teenagers is for losers. Winners look for opportunities to improve and overachieve. Winners don't bash teenagers over a college decision. Winners move on and look for the next opportunity.

I think Boom is our best running back since Rafael Little, but I worry about his concussions. I hope Boom can complete his career healthy. Mikel Horton will also be a star at UK, but I am concerned about depth in this kind of an offense. I like Heard, but he hasn't been fully healthy and he is a senior now. Say what you want about Jo Jo Kemp, but he has not played much because he isn't getting the job done in practice. Clemons is a great story, but he isn't physically sound enough to play much. So we need another running back. Andrew Dowell is already committed, but might get moved to the defense. Darrin Hall is 1 of the best running backs in the midwest. Fans who talk down Hall are just pouting, and don't know what they are talking about. Would love to sign Hall if possible. If that happens, it's big for the future. If it doesn't, we move on.

However, the talk about running backs kinda misses the point for 2015. To win in the SEC, we have to speed up the game and wear down our opponents. To do that, we need to improve in 3 key areas. Right now, running back is not 1 of our primary areas of need. Another good running back would be nice, but our 2015 season does not depend on it. The primary areas of need are defensive depth, wide receiver, and offensive line. Stoops knows we cannot speed up our offense unless we have more quality defensive depth. When you speed up your offense, you leave more time on the clock and create more snaps for your defense. We need enough defensive players to handle all those extra plays. Right now, we don't have them. That's why the top goal in this class is adding more quality defenders. And that's why Javon Provitt, Anthony Rush, Josh Smith, Nate Dalton, Von Davis, and Marcus Lewis are the most important players left on the board. The next recruiting goal is receivers. Last year, there was a myth that our receivers were a position of strength. They weren't. We really missed Montgomery and Badet. Our freshman receivers are promising, but it was a learning year for them. Now, Blue and Robinson are graduating. Snodgrass and Greenwood will be good additions, but we need more receivers. That's why Tavin Richardson and AD Miller are important. It isn't a secret that our offensive line was the weak point on our 2014 team. We already have a lot of good young offensive linemen in the program, but adding Rob Dowdy will be a big help. If we improve these three areas of our team, we get a lot better. There are still plenty of scholarships left to get all of this done. We can take at least 8 more players. So it isn't a question of either-or, as some posters have been saying. We can cover all of these needs in the class.

Too many people are focused on the final 6 games of 2014. We were dogs in all 6 of those games. Don't miss the forest for the trees. 2014 was much better than 2013. The way things are going, 2015 should be better than 2014. Towles is only a sophomore. He will play better in 2015, or else he will lose his job to Barker. Whichever quarterback plays, our offense will be better because our line and our receivers will improve. Our offense will play faster because our coaches will have more confidence in our defensive depth. We also have the SEC's best placekicker and 1 of the best punters returning. And, thank goodness, Coach Marrow is coming back. Things are looking up. So it's time to stop crying over 1 player, focus on the big picture, move forward, and support our coaches.
You started off strong and then you blew it. I guess that's what happens when your post is waaaay too long. I was good until the lecture started. It's time to get over Harris but the posters that think he 'used' UK have every right to feel that way. I think we're on the right track but writing a book and calling people losers that don't agree with you isn't the way to go IMO.
 
You can choose whoever you want and you can say it was a business decision. Makes no difference, UK is going to have to win some of these battles and this is why it hurts. We can keep saying for 50 years that Paul Hornung or Shawn Alxander, Frank Jacobs, Devontae Parker etc.. You eventually have to get them and no justification or BB analogy will do. I think most are sick of the defeatist attitude and we should just take it like a man. You have to get some and no one is blaming the kid or Mark Stoops, just have to get some of these.

Think the key is to do what Miami and Butch Davis did when he took over, had about 13-16 recruits one year. Apparently in a 2-3 year span he and that staff only took players that could play, no reaches and the fact they did not miss on any players. That is how you win, you have to be very good at evaluating some of the guys you get are undervalued but very few misses. That was Joker's problem and some Brooks problems, they did not translate into players. No misses of 2 years ago or last year will expedite this process next year. Hopefully not many misses.
IMO
 
Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

Messenger is back or an excerpt of a long novel.

Not sure what you wrote but sure you mean well. Just too damn long.
Bottom line in all of this

Mark Stoops is the best thing to happen to UK FB in a long time, this is a minor blimp in the scheme of things, UK is recruiting etc.. UK needs to win some of these battles to move up the food chain in time, not the end of world. We realize that Bama and the pick is easy to see as we have been told by everyone. Not the end of world etc. is true, he made a mistake or he made a great business decision.

I am sure that is what you said. Believe me, UK and Mark Stoops are ok, he best thing to happen in a long time. Just need to get our share of players and can't afford to miss on many.
IMO
A minor blimp? So, not at the level of Goodyear? Is that like the MetLife Blimp?
 
Why would anybody post to a thread they claimed not to read because it was too long? Maybe they are microwave posters.


Signed,

Mitch
 
LOL! I am not judging DH's decision, and not happy with it either. Just saying it is time to move on now. He isn't coming. Life goes on. We are still on the right track. LOL at responses from people who still need to blast someone. The sun will come up. There will be a 2015 season and we will be better. Deal with it and move forward.
 
Originally posted by Real Deal 2:
You eventually have to get them...

You have to get some .....

just have to get some of these.
You keep repeating that RD2, it's like you think Stoops is 0 for 1 now. Does Elam not count? How about Barker? And are we just talking about Kentucky kids?

If you're only talking about top 5 players nationally from inside Kentucky, that's probably a once a decade thing on average - Stoops may not get another chance at one of those. Couch. Dennis Johnson. This kid - that's about it off the top of my head....
 
Not sure that anyone has "lost focus"..many just wanted the best player to possibly ever come out of the state..

that being said..there is wayyy too much stock being put into the importance of the running back position (especially in the type of offense that we run)...our problem isn't our skill players (although they still need to improve--which I believe they will) our problem is (and almost always has been) our offensive and defensive lines...need to improve DRAMATICALLY..let me say that again: DRAMATICALLY
 
george-bush-gif.gif
 
optimus-blue posted on 1/11/2015...

messenger thought joker was recruiting well, I remember these long lectures







OP can't be messenger. OP isn't nearly condescending enough, I'm right you're wrong even if you have facts, I'm important and you're not, I'm smarter than you, I understand the game better than you, I know more about recruiting than you do,...

Anything else I missed?
 
Originally posted by gobigblue812:



OP can't be messenger. OP isn't nearly condescending enough, I'm right you're wrong even if you have facts, I'm important and you're not, I'm smarter than you, I understand the game better than you, I know more about recruiting than you do,...

Anything else I missed?
roll.r191677.gif


I recall Messenger agreed with one of my posts and he still came across that way!

Peace
 
Some of our fans must have a short attention span, I read the whole thing and enjoyed it, made some excellent points IMO. A long post but an excellent summary. UK will get better, but not overnight, and we won't win all the battles.

BUT we did win our biggest battle, and it wasn't with Bama, it was with Michigan. If we improve like I think we should this year and next I think MARROW will bring in the talent in the next couple of years to make us not worry about losing the FIRST really good in state player since Stoops got here, Hatcher, Timmons, Barker and Elam, Eli and Jackson, a good start on 16, etc. But Kentucky can't furnish us all the players we need to compete in the SEC, and Marrow does a great job of adding to that, ALONG WITH the rest of our coaches with Stoops as the closer with a plan. Several of Brooks very good coaches didn't want to leave the city limits to recruit, and with their recruiting budget that was acceptable.
 
Originally posted by DACats86:
Cliff notes? Executive summary?
I didn't read it either, but from other posts in this thread I'd say:

1. The future is bright.
2. Mark Stoops rocks.
3. Harris is so last week's news.
4. The future is bright.
 
Originally posted by jauk11:
Some of our fans must have a short attention span, I read the whole thing and enjoyed it, made some excellent points IMO. A long post but an excellent summary. UK will get better, but not overnight, and we won't win all the battles.

BUT we did win our biggest battle, and it wasn't with Bama, it was with Michigan. If we improve like I think we should this year and next I think MARROW will bring in the talent in the next couple of years to make us not worry about losing the FIRST really good in state player since Stoops got here, Hatcher, Timmons, Barker and Elam, Eli and Jackson, a good start on 16, etc. But Kentucky can't furnish us all the players we need to compete in the SEC, and Marrow does a great job of adding to that, ALONG WITH the rest of our coaches with Stoops as the closer with a plan. Several of Brooks very good coaches didn't want to leave the city limits to recruit, and with their recruiting budget that was acceptable.
Glad someone agrees. I don't make very many long posts, and I don't care who anyone else wants to compare me to. I speak for myself, and I stand by what I said. No team wins every recruit. The most important thing that happened last week was Coach Marrow's decision to stay. I'm sure others besides me are tired of all the ritual bashings. Our football program is still moving in the right direction, and it's time to move forward.
 
Blue Decade = Messenger
eek.r191677.gif

What a way to start my morning..... Just tell me what I owe?
 
Ease do not mention Mcwilson ever again as someone who has to make plays - if he's on the field we are in trouble he is horrible but I understand some if these redshirts and guys that have been under stoops a couple years now need to start making plays.
 
I agree that it is time to move on from the Harris fiasco. Evidently UK was never actually in the hunt. This kid thinks he is big time and was going to go big time from the start. He just used UK to amuse himself.

I never thought UK had much of a chance at this kid and only though they had a small percentage chance because the kid was basically a home town recruit. I just hate it that teams like Alabama and OSU can swoop in and take the cream off the top of our instate talent. This must stop if UK is ever to become relevant in college football.

I have looked back and recalled the elite in state players that UK has lost that have gone on to become very good players else were the past 5 years and wonder what might have been if we could have kept them in state and or away from UofL. Having Parker alone could have translated to a couple more wins for UK this season.
 
^agree. As I've said, with the state only producing 2-4 SEC level players a year it becomes imperative UK gets those players. It's not practical to think UK could lose a 5* RB 15 minutes from campus then jet off to Fla or wherever to find his replacement. If UK ever hopes to climb the SEC ladder they must keep the good in-state guys home because it's virtually impossible to find them out of state.
 
I have often said Home State U has a ton of advantages, and unless a kid wants to run away from home like that other nearby recruit we lost, whatshisname, we should have a shot at most in state players-------but in a lot of cases not if we are funded like a second rate program AND play like it. We are no longer funded like a second rate program, but it will take time to catch up, but we are doing that, and you can already see the fruits of the improvements, Hatcher, Timmons, Barker, Elam, Eli, Jackson, the early 16 commits, and more are just one big indication in the in state recruiting. Winning our share of games, including in the SEC, is the next necessary step, but it doesn't come overnight.

The problem before with our recruiting primarily the SEC states is that they were getting most of the home state elite talent while UK was forced to settle for the second tier, which were also very good in a lot of cases. Until very recently we never got a recruit from an SEC state that had a legit offer from HSU, that always had as good or better football program, and the ones that did want to leave home had a top program or team they liked closer to home than us. Clemons and Caffey are good examples of talented players we got that were not offered by HSU, Georgia got the number one RB prospect in the nation that year IIRC, also from Georgia, or they would have been offered by Georgia and we would have never heard of them, JMO. We would have never gotten Cobb if HSU had offered earlier than their CYA offer in case he blew up, he was a two star until then and they were recruiting high four and five star players.

Our win this week was much bigger than our loss with retaining Marrow, IMO, because UK has finally woke up to the advantages we offer to a huge reservoir of talent very close to us to the north that want to play in the best conference. around against the best competition. Still, the next step has to be taken, that talent (and the other very good talent from a much better recruiting staff all around, with something to sell) has to be coached up and start winning games or we will settle back some, not to the abysmal level six decades of neglect had reduced us to, but to a lower level bowl team that can sometimes upset the SEC powers.

I think we have the coaches to take us to the next level with the talent we are getting now, but it won't happen tomorrow and we won't get all the best recruits, even if they are in state, until we start winning.

I like our future.
 
It's simple to me I am much more happy about Coach Marrow staying than I would have been to get Damien Harris, you can't win them all. I have waited 30 years for UK to make a commitment to football and I don't believe one player choosing another program changes the fact that we are making progress. Programs are built over several years with numerous players I want kids that want to be at UK because they believe bottom line. If DH heart is in Bama then that is without a doubt the place he should go, don't let the door knob hit you in the a@@. It's done, over with, now could we please move on, national signing day is shortly to be here let's talk about the kids that want to play here, cause a kid that comes here wishing he could be somewhere else only becomes a distraction.
 
The only thing I disagree with is receiver being a "need area". Actually we have what we need right now they just need more experience. We are losing 2 receivers and have already recruited one and will probably get 2 so that's just a normal restocking of graduation losses. I would say linebacker and defensive line are bigger need areas and offensive tackles. However no area is really hurting right now as we have transitioned more into a mode of just continuing to fill out the depth chart.

On the larger issue of the future of the program under Coach Stoops, I think the future is bright. However we can no longer sell the future to potential recruits, the future is now, and we are going to have show something on the field next year to validate the promises that have been made. We need at least 7 wins and a decent bowl trip preferable 8. I think it's doable, but I think all of us are starting to sense that the momentum is starting to soften just a tad and in order to keep it going in the right direction we need to start making a statement this coming season.
 
Originally posted by Deeeefense:
The only thing I disagree with is receiver being a "need area". Actually we have what we need right now they just need more experience. We are losing 2 receivers and have already recruited one and will probably get 2 so that's just a normal restocking of graduation losses. I would say linebacker and defensive line are bigger need areas and offensive tackles. However no area is really hurting right now as we have transitioned more into a mode of just continuing to fill out the depth chart.

On the larger issue of the future of the program under Coach Stoops, I think the future is bright. However we can no longer sell the future to potential recruits, the future is now, and we are going to have show something on the field next year to validate the promises that have been made. We need at least 7 wins and a decent bowl trip preferable 8. I think it's doable, but I think all of us are starting to sense that the momentum is starting to soften just a tad and in order to keep it going in the right direction we need to start making a statement this coming season.
Agree, the future is bright. I think we will win 7 in 2015 and make it to a bowl. As far as the receivers are concerned, I would have agreed with you if everyone was healthy. But when we lost Montgomery and Badet, that took the depth down below the level you need to run a fast paced passing offense. By the end of the season, our receivers were beat up, and Baker needed surgery. Now Blue and Robinson are gone. Montgomery and Badet will be back. Greenwood and Snodgrass are good, but they haven't played any college football yet. Talent at the position is good, but we still need more numbers and experience there. That's why it is still a position of need. We need more of them. I would like to get the Miller kid out of Illinois.
 
Originally posted by C1180:

I have looked back and recalled the elite in state players that UK has lost that have gone on to become very good players else were the past 5 years and wonder what might have been if we could have kept them in state and or away from UofL. Having Parker alone could have translated to a couple more wins for UK this season.
Which players would those be? I don't know of anyone that's even played a lot, much less become very good players.
 
Originally posted by BigBlueCatNation:


Originally posted by C1180:

I have looked back and recalled the elite in state players that UK has lost that have gone on to become very good players else were the past 5 years and wonder what might have been if we could have kept them in state and or away from UofL. Having Parker alone could have translated to a couple more wins for UK this season.
Which players would those be? I don't know of anyone that's even played a lot, much less become very good players.
How about Parker and Quick to UofL where they are doing quite well, The LB from Boyle county that is a starter at USC West. A TE to Illinois I believe his name was Davis, The big OL fron Owensboro that is at ND and I believe starting. That is a few and there is more that I can not at this minute recall. I believe several have gone to Ohio State and Michigan and done well. UT has cherry picked a few. Over a 5 year period if you miss out on even one or two good in state player a year it really hurts the program. The UofL QB that picked UKs defense apart in this years game I believe played his high school ball in Lexington. It remains to be seen what type loss Harris will be.

I am not ambitious enough to research all the really good players UK has lost out of state and to UofL that would have made this a much better team but it was a lot. A good project for someone more ambitious than me.

I would however like to say that Stoops coaching staff seems to be doing a much better job of getting the better Kentucky in state recruits than most previous coaching staffs.
 
I think this is our first big loss of an instate recruit since Parker, a home city commit to UL that grew up when they were pretty good, see my list above. And another big factor is that we are growing more and better in state talent, in ten we got the best in state prospect according to the consensus, and he wasn't even a four star and dropped out. We got Towles in 12, 4 star with great potential, missed on Parker in 12 that is a star, Timmons and Hatcher in 13, Barker and Elam in 14, a 5.9 (before switching positions) and others in 15, and a player #1 at his position and other top prospects in 16 already.

Unless there are special circumstances I don't think we lose another top in state prospect to UL in the foreseeable future, most in state prospects know the situation.

Bottom line this is a great recruiting staff that now has a lot to offer and they will do even better in the future when we start winning some games.
 
Originally posted by C1180:

How about Parker and Quick to UofL where they are doing quite well, The LB from Boyle county that is a starter at USC West. A TE to Illinois I believe his name was Davis, The big OL fron Owensboro that is at ND and I believe starting. That is a few and there is more that I can not at this minute recall. I believe several have gone to Ohio State and Michigan and done well. UT has cherry picked a few. Over a 5 year period if you miss out on even one or two good in state player a year it really hurts the program. The UofL QB that picked UKs defense apart in this years game I believe played his high school ball in Lexington. It remains to be seen what type loss Harris will be.
I knew about the 2 that went to UL, but no idea about the guy that went to ND. I know the guy that went out west to USC transferred to Syracuse to play. His name is Dawson. I'm assuming he left in order to play more.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT