Sorry crusty, I thought you said you hated a coach who had one eye on the pros, and you didn't, my bad.
Recruiting: the concern should Cal, not platooning
- Thread starter CrustyCat
- Start date
I'm not sure where Cal has ever said he didn't want to be at UK....and if he leaves the great recruits and teh great post-season success most likely leaves with it. No more 4 Final Fours in 5 years...(that people on here bitch about as not good enough), and all I have to do to say that is what could/would happen is what happened the longer the years went after Rick Pitino left UK.
Just last week Jones declared it was the platoons that hurt us. Then several posters pointed out how that really doesn't make any sense, and there was discussion of Cal not closing the door hard enough on the NBA being the real problem.
Now Jones claims its the NBA afterall.
Welcome to KSR in a nutshell. Read twitter/message boards for good ideas/arguments; then repackage them as your own.
Now Jones claims its the NBA afterall.
Welcome to KSR in a nutshell. Read twitter/message boards for good ideas/arguments; then repackage them as your own.
I'm with you Crusty, commit to being a college coach and let it be known that there isn't another job you would rather have. Problem is cal has said that and still came close to jumping ship last year. I am sure that some coaches are using that, if not they should be, I know I would.
Why doesn't he have the right to look if he wants? He owes you nothing, really think about it, he owes you nothing.
Why would a 1 and done care at this point whether cal stays or goes? He's not going to recruit a kid for next year and leave at this point. If he were recruiting 2-3-4 year players then the nba talk would hurt.the guys everyone is bitching about missing on are not deterred by NBA talk. What may deter them is watching uk go 38-0 loving the hype, then watching the pace of play kill us against Wisconsin.
Here's something else...stop talking about cal leaving. I don't think he was close to leaving last year as some do. I don't think anyone knows cal enough to make that claim. I do think cal could use the nba as leverage and I think he may have been intrigued by that is far different than seriously considering a move.
Here's something else...stop talking about cal leaving. I don't think he was close to leaving last year as some do. I don't think anyone knows cal enough to make that claim. I do think cal could use the nba as leverage and I think he may have been intrigued by that is far different than seriously considering a move.
My comparison wasn't fair, and it misrepresented your point. Yours was more like if the dog is already sick and dying we should go ahead and put it down.
I disagree with your potential if, for a ton of reasons, mostly because I can't imagine better, more lucrative, better timed situations coming across the line than the ones Cal has already turned down over the years. You can choose to view it another way, but I don't think it's supported by any real evidence o logic beyond negativity and worry.
Either way, point remains, I was off the mark with the joke. My apologies.
I am so confused with this post. Coach Cal said in his press conference when he was selected in the College Hall of Fame. In that press conference he was asked a couple of times about leaving Kentucky for the NBA. He said in that press conference that he was currently happy in Coaching at Kentucky and it was the best job in basketball. He talked about Kentucky, the best facilities, best fanbase, etc. He talked about how he waited on this job for so many years and that was his goal to Coach here at Kentucky. He didn't say once anything about leaving and it was all positive and how happy he was helping families and the players and couldn't do that in the NBA. He seemed very happy here at Kentucky. I am sure these recruits as Newman, Brown, Zimmerman, etc would have said that they look for Coach Cal to be in the NBA next year and that is why they didn't come. Newman didn't come because Howland took over for Rick Ray and promised him the world in minutes, shots and ppg. "Slice" goes to St. Johns and that hurts us with Diallo and Zimmerman's mom explained what she thought some of these recruits didn't come to Kentucky and it wasn't nothing to do with Coach Cal being in the NBA next year and not at Kentucky! I can't believe this site and some of our fans on this subject!
I read your post and I don't necessarily disagree with the thought that coaches may have used Cal's flirtation with the league against him. You stated in your original post, "if he is going to have one eye on the NBA, I think I'd rather he just go on". And I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Sure we missed a couple of recruits. But we still have a top 3 class and a top 5 team. Who else is gonna do that every year? I think a few days of nerves when an NBA job opens up is more than worth the results we see year in, year out.
Unfortunately, I think it's going to happen.
1 - Lebron runs the Cavs, he picked everyone there except Blatt.
2 - Blatt is horrible and proves it over and over
3 - Lebron called him out to the media after game 4. Note - no one would have known he wanted to use the greatest basketball player of this era as a decoy had Lebron not said it.
4 - To me, the call out means Lebron is done with Blatt.
5 - Lebron is for sure there this time and Gilbert will not mess it up again.
6 - We don't have the loaded team returning for Cal's shot at immortatlity (40-0)
7 - He refuses to shut the door on it even when it was hurting recruiting.
I think this all adds up to Cal coaching the Cavs next year. Lebron will only want Cal, K, or maybe Tyronn Lue. K is going nowhere, and Cal almost went last year. There isn't as much keeping him this time around.
1 - Lebron runs the Cavs, he picked everyone there except Blatt.
2 - Blatt is horrible and proves it over and over
3 - Lebron called him out to the media after game 4. Note - no one would have known he wanted to use the greatest basketball player of this era as a decoy had Lebron not said it.
4 - To me, the call out means Lebron is done with Blatt.
5 - Lebron is for sure there this time and Gilbert will not mess it up again.
6 - We don't have the loaded team returning for Cal's shot at immortatlity (40-0)
7 - He refuses to shut the door on it even when it was hurting recruiting.
I think this all adds up to Cal coaching the Cavs next year. Lebron will only want Cal, K, or maybe Tyronn Lue. K is going nowhere, and Cal almost went last year. There isn't as much keeping him this time around.
Calipari is not UKs basketball Messiah. UK has been one of the top teams in college basketball for over 60 years. UK has 8 NCs only one of which Calipari won. The other seven were won by other coaches. UK has made Calipari more than Calipari has made UK.
I agree with the guy that posted that if Calipari is going to continue to flirt with the NBA then just go on and go.
This would not be the end of the world for UK basketball. They would just get another great coach and the UK synergist would make him even greater like it has Calipari.
I agree with the guy that posted that if Calipari is going to continue to flirt with the NBA then just go on and go.
This would not be the end of the world for UK basketball. They would just get another great coach and the UK synergist would make him even greater like it has Calipari.
Go back to the beginning of Matt Jones... he'd find the most embarrassing stereotypes of Kentucky and plaster them all over his blog. Negative backhanded story after negative backhanded story.
He's like Tipton 2.0 with the built-in decepticon mode and you rubes lap his nuts up like fine cherry toppings because you're too blind to see the dookie in him shining through.
You know how recruiting scoops are what most sites rush for... well you let ANY negative news about UK pop up and Jones will be the first one to have it highlighted front and center on his blog then when he gets called out on it he'll mumble something about him not really being "the news" and pretend it's all a cute little joke.
Doesn't matter if it is intentional or just part of him being a douche because the result is the same.. he needs to find another program to feed his parasitic existence and leave UK and their fans alone as we don't need a Dookie Momma's Boy to tell us which side of our arses is red.
He's like Tipton 2.0 with the built-in decepticon mode and you rubes lap his nuts up like fine cherry toppings because you're too blind to see the dookie in him shining through.
You know how recruiting scoops are what most sites rush for... well you let ANY negative news about UK pop up and Jones will be the first one to have it highlighted front and center on his blog then when he gets called out on it he'll mumble something about him not really being "the news" and pretend it's all a cute little joke.
Doesn't matter if it is intentional or just part of him being a douche because the result is the same.. he needs to find another program to feed his parasitic existence and leave UK and their fans alone as we don't need a Dookie Momma's Boy to tell us which side of our arses is red.
Like they did with Tubby Smith and Billy G right? Look, I'm perfectly aware that Kentucky is the greatest tradition in college basketball. But that most certainly does not guarantee that the next coach will be a slam dunk. Right now we have a proven winner. And to tell him to hit the road because other coaches have used his possible eventual departure to the NBA to knock his recruiting class from #1 to #3 is beyond ludicrous.
If Calipari wishes to stay at UK and not go Pro he should publicly state such and quit flirting with every Pro team that shows interest. You know kind of like a politician saying I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected.
Calipari has to be showing interest or teams would quit courting him.
I personally do not see what Pro teams see in him. His strong suit is recruiting which is not necessary in the Pros and IMO he is not a great bench coach. I seem to remember that he has been a Pro coach before and I don't remember that he was an elite Pro coach. IMO his skill set is better for college than the Pros. If he is a smart coach he will stay a college coach at UK and Like I said disavow any interest in the Pros. Heck he is making over 6 million a year at UK. How much more would a Pro team pay? I would say that his job security at UK is over the top and that he has almost reached Rupp status. IMO a move to the Pros would be very foolish.
Because as the OP alluded to, this will start to cost us if Cal is heavily rumored to the NBA every year and is serious about potentially leaving. No player will want to commit to Cal with the real possibility that he will not be here by the time he arrives. Your right he owes me absolutely nothing, but if his loyalty is not with UK for the long haul then why should be loyalty be with him. I owe him nothing, I mean really think about it, I owe him nothing!!!!!! See how stupid that sounds!!!!!!
I hope that's right. Honestly, the only reason I started the thread was because KSR has hit this "Cal was absolutely gone until the twins came back" thing several times now.
Fair enough. I guess I just have my doubts that *if* someone would prefer to be somewhere else, that they will work as hard as I would want them to.
I agree with that too. His skill set is much more suited to the college game. At the same time, I can see how his previous stint could have left him with a chip on his shoulder.
But again my point is, whether he evenyually goes or not, his results speak for themselves. Do you know which other Kentucky coach has gone to 4 final 4's in 5 years? NONE. Not pitino, not hall, and nope.....not Rupp. To say "if he's thinking about the NBA, let him go" seems very short sighted. I get nervous about him leaving too, but in the meantime I'm just going to enjoy his time here.
No sweat. Just to be clear, I'm very happy with Cal being here and am not in the camp that is down on our current class or team next year. Just reacting to the KSR stuff about Cal and Cleveland.
here is the one thing I'm sure of - none of us will really know Cal's true thoughts on staying or going.
How can you wrap you head around Cal saying he has the best job in sports and then getting to the point of talking details with the Cavs?
The fact is Cal told Memphis fans a similar line - I'm happy at Memphis...... well you can be happy at more than one place.
This isn't a bash Cal post, but its just wishful thinking for anyone who puts any stock in his statements as a lock or even a lean.
That extends to Jones as well. At some point in the season he was talking about hearing something that made him think Cal was here for an extended time , like another 4 years. If it wasn't him, it was someone on his website via proxy of him, and now I read from posts here he's talking about possible situations where Cal would leave.
Cal says what he needs to say - to manipulate the media, the recruits and yes.....the fans. Any coach that has a program and a career to protect does.
In the words of Cal - its all clutter. Focus your energy on something else.
How can you wrap you head around Cal saying he has the best job in sports and then getting to the point of talking details with the Cavs?
The fact is Cal told Memphis fans a similar line - I'm happy at Memphis...... well you can be happy at more than one place.
This isn't a bash Cal post, but its just wishful thinking for anyone who puts any stock in his statements as a lock or even a lean.
That extends to Jones as well. At some point in the season he was talking about hearing something that made him think Cal was here for an extended time , like another 4 years. If it wasn't him, it was someone on his website via proxy of him, and now I read from posts here he's talking about possible situations where Cal would leave.
Cal says what he needs to say - to manipulate the media, the recruits and yes.....the fans. Any coach that has a program and a career to protect does.
In the words of Cal - its all clutter. Focus your energy on something else.
I listen to the morning show every day and I can't remember a single time Jones saying Cal "would leave" after the season.
I think it bears repeating, Cal's not in chains. He can say one thing and change his mind. He can be happier and someone offers more money or some perk that's important to him. Its a year to year proposition with any good coach.
If you want a coach without one eye on the pros, you want a mediocre coach. The very best in their field have options. Recruits worth their salt know this. Fans should as well.
There is a simple solution to this. Mediocrity.
If you want a coach without one eye on the pros, you want a mediocre coach. The very best in their field have options. Recruits worth their salt know this. Fans should as well.
There is a simple solution to this. Mediocrity.
No you didn't Crusty. Your exact quote was
"if he is going to have one eye on the NBA, I think I'd rather he just go on."
Listening to the NBA and not preferring the NBA are quite different.
But you didn't answer my question. Say Cal reads your post and says screw it, some of these fans are morons and will never be satisfied, I will leave CrustyCat.
Just who is CrustyCats choice?
None of these guys:
Donovan - went pro
Izzo - was looked at by Cleveland
K - has talked with the Lakers
Hoiberg - is Chicago's first choice
Roy - talked to Lakers
Miller - listed as a top candidate to join the nba ranks back in March by ESPN - Cal not even mentioned.
Stevens - went pro
Pitino - already went pro once
Self said in a press conference that he would be open to talking to the NBA
Wonder where these guys would rank in a current top 15 of best coaches...?
Crusty, I get the premise, but your one line of "I'd rather him go" simply brings the whole post down the drain for me. And the two guys who agreed with you are notorious for their dislike of Cal.
Good luck with the crappy coach who the NBA doesn't even want to look at.
I think it was just a bad recruiting year. Tons of coaches want to go to the NBA, and many of them will be given the shot. It's never stopped recruits before. Have we ever even heard ONE player say he didn't choose school X because the head coach might leave.
I don't know. I don't think it was platooning or Cal's NBA potential. Just a weird, weird class. Duke was the only top program who had a class up with ours. It's not like Kansas, UNC, Louisville, IU, UCLA, Florida were killing it either. They should be the ones questioning their program, not Kentucky. Plenty of recruits made odd-ball choices from the get-go.
Another way to look at it.. maybe this is the first year of kids where the over-parenting and awards-for-everyone is starting to have an affect? Lots of players want to stay at home, and lots of players don't want to share the ball. Looks like the self-entitlement generation is starting to round the corner.
I don't know. I don't think it was platooning or Cal's NBA potential. Just a weird, weird class. Duke was the only top program who had a class up with ours. It's not like Kansas, UNC, Louisville, IU, UCLA, Florida were killing it either. They should be the ones questioning their program, not Kentucky. Plenty of recruits made odd-ball choices from the get-go.
Another way to look at it.. maybe this is the first year of kids where the over-parenting and awards-for-everyone is starting to have an affect? Lots of players want to stay at home, and lots of players don't want to share the ball. Looks like the self-entitlement generation is starting to round the corner.
Don't confuse critical of coach Cal with dislike of Cal. One can be critical without disliking. I guarantee I wanted Calipari as a coach here long before 99% of our fanbase did and I am very happy he his here and hope he stays. That still doesn't mean that I don't think there are areas of his coaching that he could improve on to be even better than he is. He has all the tools and knowledge, stubbornness is his enemy #1. Also "if" it gets to the point that his recruiting suffers because of always being linked to the NBA, I, like the OP, would prefer he just go. We are not there yet, so that is a hypothetical.
No one was more critical of Cal the last game than me, so I get that. If I lumped you in unfairly I apologize. But as you could see the list of big name coaches who have communicated with the NBA are the best of the best.
When has Cal's recruiting ever suffered?
You guys saying #2 or #3 class is now considered suffering?
You guys saying you would rather he go because of a top 3 rated recruiting class will be very disappointed with the next hire. Expectations are almost childlike.
We have never had a recruiting run like we have had the last 7 years, for people saying I'd rather he go because we don't have the number one overall class every single year is severely short minded and must not have experienced the previous 15 years.
I wish we signed more kids, i think the current roster has holes, i sure as hell hope Cal never leaves as long as he keeps us with the elite. You guys have no replacement for Cal, so the hypothetical is mind-numbing.
Brian, here is my exact quote "Also "if" it gets to the point that his recruiting suffers because of always being linked to the NBA, I, like the OP, would prefer he just go. We are not there yet, so that is a hypothetical.
I cant be more clearer than what I quoted above with what I wish to portray with my thought on the topic. I would not feel this way if Cal were to improve on his bench coaching and strategize more. In his current state of Coaching I don't think he can win unless he gets the elite talent so if he does stop getting that elite talent and we start seeing more years like 2013 then I believe everyone would be ready for a change. It would take about 3 years of that and we haven't even had one yet so again it is all hypothetical.
If Cal is at UK next season and we were to strike out on all big time recruits there would be major reason for concern moving forward. You don't simply go from handpicking who you want to all of a sudden not being able to get an elite player at all without a just reason. Cross that bridge if we come to it, which I doubt we ever will.
He doesn't know much of anything? I'm sorry but that phrase coming from you seems pretty ironic considering you completely struck out with every recruit prediction you made since the off season began. Kinda crazy to say that Jones doesn't know anything when you consider that he is all around the program and closer than any other media person. I think this would be a good time to use your.....Jones doesn't know anything, IN MY OPINION. It is just that, an opinion.
Briscoe and Skal are pretty elite. The only real shocking recruit that I cannot explain is Brown...and that is because he chose Cal over Michigan. Most thought Michigan or UCLA were a lock for him...The other "elite players" Cal has missed on have all stayed close to home for the most part this spring. I'm not really sure what is really so shocking about any of them. Zimmerman, hometown team and apparently afraid of the spotlight of following last season's team, Newman, father played on hometown team and wants to PG all the time (wouldn't happen at UK), and Ingram stayed in NC as we all knew he would. I'm not saying there is not something to what you are saying long term, but as you said, we have to see if it happens next year to say it is a true trend.
What? REALLY? I guess you know something that the rest of humanity has no clue about. Please, explain furthe.
If you have an opportunity to coach the best player in the world along with a pretty good PG then you've got to figure you can ride that to some pretty good success. Sometimes, especially when a man gets into his 50s he starts to need new challenges to motivate you to keep pushing instead of sitting back and taking things easy and if Cal gets to that point and has a fabulous offer then none of us should begrudge him.
Miss him. Yes. Be thankful for what has been one of the greatest eras in UK history. Yes. Blame him? No.
I also think it has always soured Cal somewhat on UK fans in that we have been so vocal in making fun of Rick Pitino. When Cal was dreaming of one day becoming the UK coach Pitino was the man here and Cal admired that greatly and has even talked about dreaming of driving down Richmond Road and picking out a big house... he knows Pitino was worshiped here and I think it makes him mistrust us and think we'll turn on even him when his time is done and as a result there just isn't that really affectionate bond with the fans that I think otherwise might have been.
Rick. Tubby. Billy. A lot of those coaches deserve a whole lot of criticism but the bottom line is deserves got nothing to do with it. If you keep trashing your ex coaches then new coaches are going to take that into account as part of the lay of the land.
That's why I believe solidly that the UK program needs to reach out more to our ex coaches and try to somewhat bring them back into the fold. Honor them, even. Need to do something to build a bridge there as if Cal does leave and he gets trashed then we are going to have a real problem.
Miss him. Yes. Be thankful for what has been one of the greatest eras in UK history. Yes. Blame him? No.
I also think it has always soured Cal somewhat on UK fans in that we have been so vocal in making fun of Rick Pitino. When Cal was dreaming of one day becoming the UK coach Pitino was the man here and Cal admired that greatly and has even talked about dreaming of driving down Richmond Road and picking out a big house... he knows Pitino was worshiped here and I think it makes him mistrust us and think we'll turn on even him when his time is done and as a result there just isn't that really affectionate bond with the fans that I think otherwise might have been.
Rick. Tubby. Billy. A lot of those coaches deserve a whole lot of criticism but the bottom line is deserves got nothing to do with it. If you keep trashing your ex coaches then new coaches are going to take that into account as part of the lay of the land.
That's why I believe solidly that the UK program needs to reach out more to our ex coaches and try to somewhat bring them back into the fold. Honor them, even. Need to do something to build a bridge there as if Cal does leave and he gets trashed then we are going to have a real problem.
HEY I KNOW, it's the damn platoons! That's it! Players think that's a new norm, even though cal has already said no and anyone with a F'ing brain knows it was just a special circumstance, but players and their families are too retRded to understand it. Yea, coaches are just saying "he's gonna play 12 deep from now on even though if you sign with them you'll be the only SF, SG, etc. To even play the position!!!! That's it!!!
The NBA stuff probably did note to hurt our recruiting this year besides this class being out of the norm. The NBA stuff might not be the biggest issue with our recruiting right now, but it makes way more sense than the stupid platoons and it makes 0 sense to say it's not brig used.
The NBA stuff probably did note to hurt our recruiting this year besides this class being out of the norm. The NBA stuff might not be the biggest issue with our recruiting right now, but it makes way more sense than the stupid platoons and it makes 0 sense to say it's not brig used.
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We all understand what you are trying to say but why? There has been zero evidence for you or the OP to make that comment.
Cal has the number 1 or 2 class every year he has been here. He missed on a few kids this spring but had the number one class until a month ago. We still have the #1 player, #1 point guard, the top Juco, and a former top 20 kid. Still ranked in the Top 3.
If any UK coach goes to a bunch of NITs they should be gone. However if Cal goes to the NIT only after winning a championship, I hope we go to 20 NIT's.
You say yourself we haven't seen "one year yet" to raise any doubts yet you insist on the hypothetical.
The OP said if coach is interested in the NBA in any way he'd rather Cal leave. You concurred. Then you say if we start having bad seasons you want him gone. Guess what Einstein? We will all want him gone with a bunch of bad seasons.
The OP made a senseless remark that just because the NBA makes inquiries and reporters talk about Cal to the NBA and that if Cal doesn't absolutely swear on a bible he will never leave for the NBA he'd rather him go. You jumped onboard that train with him.
I showed proof that 9 of the top 12 coaches have had communications with the NBA.
How about as long as Cal is here and we are successful on the court, regardless of our recruiting rankings, we do our best to keep him? At least hypothetically.....
Your only problem here is trying to take a passive approach to Cals misses this year. You honestly sound like you're dismissing it as incorrect?
No, cal missed really bad this year, and even though I think our team is going to be extremely great, you can't deny it with a straight face. Cal missed more this year than He's missed in his last 7. Still a great class, but cal has never had that much time open, and whiffed in the late signing period completely. You know that.
All I'm saying is the platoons being the reason is laughable. Saying His current flirtations with the NBA couldn't be a reason is equally as laughable.
WTF are you talking about? Have you read the thread? The OP said platooning wasn't the problem, it was the NBA.
My points thus far have had nothing to do with either. The OP stated that Cal should shut down all the NBA hype (even though 90% of it is not on him) or he'd rather have Cal leave. As I showed, most of the big time coaches are talked about on the NBA level at one time or another.
I am not taking a passive approach to anything or an aggressive one, except to tell you that you are posting about something totally irrelevant to my conversation with others and replying to me about it.
If platooning had something to do with these recruits... so what, I don't care. We did it, most of us liked it at the time, if it was a mistake it's over.
If the NBA is a problem. so what? Again I don't care. I care about winning on the floor, we have yet to get a trophy for recruiting classes even though we have been by far the best over 7 years like no other. But we have won a title and been to a bunch of FF's.
I do agree with cats2010 that Cal does better with better players, and he is not the absolute best bench coach or whatever. But again that has nothing to do with my statements and nothing you posted does either.
If you replied to me erroneously no problem, if not...
I agree that we will be fine without cal, and I think certain fans will turn in their UK shirt for whatever shirt cal has on when he leaves, but I'll take cal as long as he wants to be here. And for all we know, that's 5-10 more years. Im sure there's a title in there somewhere.
