Rank Coach Mark Pope’s 1st year vs our other coaches 1st years (the seasons you experienced)

[JonathanW]

Mine is based on what the coach did, with what he inherited:

Pitino (inherited next to nothing (end of bench guys), and went 14-14 purely on play-style & game-plans)
Pope (inherited nothing, but in an era of NIL and the transfer portal, it's much easier to "ramp up" quickly, mixed success in-part due to injuries)
Tubby (inherited good, but not great team, got them hot at right time for a Title)
Cal (inherited a little, but built a contender instantly who then was upset in E8)
Sutton (inherited ok team but with a superstar, great season but upset in E8 trying to beat team 4th time)
...gap...
BCG (would like to forget, although Meeks injury was a big setback for that team)

So, I think those first 5 were all comparable. Sure, Tubby did the most (championship), but probably started with the most.
I will add that Pitino, Cal & Pope brought back excitement to the program.


I realized something just before our S16 game vs UT:
Hall in his first year took UK to E8 (although did he have to only win 1 tourney game to get there?)
Sutton in his first year took UK to E8 (was then upset by LSU)
Pitino in his first year UK eligible for NCAA-T took UK to E8 (losing in "best tourney game ever")
Tubby in his first year took UK to E8 & beyond (winning Championship)
BCG 1st round loss
Cal in his first year took UK to E8 (upset by WVU)
So, I sensed a pattern for us going into that UT game.
Pope in his first year took UK to ... S16

 

[Someguywhodoesntlikeyou]

There is no world where Tubby Smiths first season wasn’t the best.

He got to the top of the mountain.

 

[saxonburgcat]

The question was about first year, not total tenure at the school. RP had a struggle year one if for nothing else getting the guys conditioned...as well as being on 2 years probation.

Exactly what I was talking about. We were on probation! He was left with next to nothing and had no portal to draw from. The media were openly questioning why any recruit would even consider UK. Yet, he went 14 and 14, which was a miracle considering the circumstances. At the time, UK fans were giddy with excitement knowing that we had THAT kind of success after a losing season.

To put it in perspective, if Pitino were leading the men at the Alamo, he would have held the fort until the reinforcements arrived. To me, Pitino's first year was the most impressive showing by any first year coach considering all the circumstances.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

Every time I hear this, I always think - Tubby won a title with a weaker team than the one Pitino didn't win with the year before.

Watching Mercer, DA, and Padgett hoop together… it cannot be overstated how powerful it was.

Not even to mention going to the Elite 8 the year after and losing to the eventual champs.

 

[AJG-15]

Tubby inherited everything from Pitino.

Cal in his first year at Kentucky brought all the recruits with him from his previous school , just like he did when he left Kentucky. Cal at Arkansas reached SS just like Pope at Kentucky without recruiting from HS.
Cal first year at Kentucky was EE and 35-3 so better than what he did at Arkansas .

Pope first year at Kentucky was better than his first year at BYU.

So, I think instead of ranking coaches, we should rank and analyze the Kentucky effect on coaches. All coaches perform better at Kentucky.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Every time I hear this, I always think - Tubby won a title with a weaker team than the one Pitino didn't win with the year before.

Lots of spin in that one sentence: Here are the facts! (Players and points scored in title game)

1997: Mercer 13, Padgett 17, Turner 8, Epps 11, Nazr 12, Mills 12, Turner 8, Magloire 0, Edwards 0, Prickett 6

1998: Shep 16, Padgett 17, Turner 6, Nazr 10, Evans 10, Mills 8, Magloire 7, Edwards 4, Bradley 0

In effect, we lost Mercer, Epps, and Prickett,

We added Shep, Evans, Bradley. Shep and Evans were highly experienced.

The 97 team lost in OT to a red hot Arizona team that beat 2 other top seeds.

 

[clevenger32]

On the surface, it was a successful first year for Coach Hall, but if you were behind the scenes on and off the court, it was a very difficult transition and he handled it beautifully.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Not sure Tubby deserves the credit, considering he was given returning players coming off back to back title games.

Pope and Cal’s were the most impressive. Taking a program from ground zero and putting them back in the top 10 literally overnight. Pitino did well, too.

Then why didn't pitino win the year before with better talent?

Ppl don't give tubby credit, that elite 8 game vs duke was a masterclass in coaching

 

[Blueaz]

Then why didn't pitino win the year before with better talent?

Ppl don't give tubby credit, that elite 8 game vs duke was a masterclass in coaching

Because he refused to play DA...

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Again, this fanbase is all about national titles so ranking anyone other than tubby 1 for first year seems delusional to me.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

Lots of spin in that one sentence: Here are the facts! (Players and points scored in title game)

1997: Mercer 13, Padgett 17, Turner 8, Epps 11, Nazr 12, Mills 12, Turner 8, Magloire 0, Edwards 0, Prickett 6

1998: Shep 16, Padgett 17, Turner 6, Nazr 10, Evans 10, Mills 8, Magloire 7, Edwards 4, Bradley 0

In effect, we lost Mercer, Epps, and Prickett,

We added Shep, Evans, Bradley. Shep and Evans were highly experienced.

The 97 team lost in OT to a red hot Arizona team that beat 2 other top seeds.

You can't say "spin" then use 1 game vs different opponents as proof. That's not how data works.

 

[ArtLaibsGhost]

1 Smith he won a title regardless of whose players he had
2 Hall followed Rupp ( incredibly difficult) went to EE first season.
3 Cal
4 Pope started late with NOTHING went to S16
5 Pitino set tone that pulled us from Abyss
6 Sutton inherited decent hand Meh
7 Gilespie enough said

 

[billoliver40]

Because he refused to play DA...

Uhhhhhh....you are being sarcastic about not playing DA...or are you referring to potino, not Tubby?

 

[clevenger32]

Again, this fanbase is all about national titles so ranking anyone other than tubby 1 for first year seems delusional to me.

It is but to judge only on national championships would be shortsighted on the entire program and the circumstances each was handed.

 

[saxonburgcat]

You can't say "spin" then use 1 game vs different opponents as proof. That's not how data works.

The poster I replied to was using ONE game to make his point that Tubby was a better coach than many give him credit for because he won the title with less talent than Rick had when he finished second. I agree with you, if you use all the data, Rick runs circles around Tubby and Tubby did win because he had Rick's players. Tubby never even made another FF.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

The poster I replied to was using ONE game to make his point that Tubby was a better coach than many give him credit for because he won the title with less talent than Rick had when he finished second. I agree with you, if you use all the data, Rick runs circles around Tubby and Tubby did win because he had Rick's players. Tubby never even made another FF.

Tubby literally coached them up and made them champions. And at the same time got us a revenge win vs Duke. And the players themselves had more individual success under Tubby than Rick.

And then we can go back to the original point of the post in comparing 1st seasons. Not Tubby's 1st season to Rick's last.

 

[Someguywhodoesntlikeyou]

The poster I replied to was using ONE game to make his point that Tubby was a better coach than many give him credit for because he won the title with less talent than Rick had when he finished second. I agree with you, if you use all the data, Rick runs circles around Tubby and Tubby did win because he had Rick's players. Tubby never even made another FF.

Tubby was 5-2 against Pitino I believe as the Kentucky coach.

Now that I think about it Pitino must have just forgotten how to coach at Louisville because our two worst coaches according to some went what 17-6 against him.

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Then why didn't pitino win the year before with better talent?

Ppl don't give tubby credit, that elite 8 game vs duke was a masterclass in coaching

Master class? Besides not calling a timeout, what exactly were the genius moves he made vs Duke?

Looked like to me Mills and Padgett won the game with huge 3’s.

As for Pitino, he didn’t coach that season. But he did make numerous final fours prior and after UK. Did Tubby? There’s no comparison.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Tubby literally coached them up and made them champions. And at the same time got us a revenge win vs Duke. And the players themselves had more individual success under Tubby than Rick.

And then we can go back to the original point of the post in comparing 1st seasons. Not Tubby's 1st season to Rick's last.

For the record, I wasn't the one who started the comparison of Tubby's first season to Rick's last.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Tubby was 5-2 against Pitino I believe as the Kentucky coach.

Now that I think about it Pitino must have just forgotten how to coach at Louisville because our two worst coaches according to some went what 17-6 against him.

That has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. Amazing how the subject get changed every time someone says something that really can't be refuted.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

All of our coaches have done pretty well in their first seasons. I would say Sutton & Gillespie underachieved for their teams, even though Sutton made the E8. Cal underachieved too. Still can get over losing to Joe Mazulla with 5 first rounders. Pope may have overachieved even despite the injuries. Tubby definitely overachieved and had the best 1st season of any coach, at maybe any program. Rick performed about as expected his first year. All of them except Pope were SEC COY I believe but the SEC is a different beast now compared to those years.

 

[ImTheVillageIdiot]

All of our coaches have done pretty well in their first seasons. I would say Sutton & Gillespie underachieved for their teams, even though Sutton made the E8. Cal underachieved too. Still can get over losing to Joe Mazulla with 5 first rounders. Pope may have overachieved even despite the injuries. Tubby definitely overachieved and had the best 1st season of any coach, at maybe any program. Rick performed about as expected his first year. All of them except Pope were SEC COY I believe but the SEC is a different beast now compared to those years.

Dude, no way Rick performed “as expected” that first year. That was a 3-5 win roster that he won 14 games with.

 

[Someguywhodoesntlikeyou]

That has nothing to do with this discussion whatsoever. Amazing how the subject get changed every time someone says something that really can't be refuted.

Eh I thought it was funny.

Tubby Smith was a good coach. So’s Cal. So’s Rick and Pope. All good coaches. I’m pretty 100% confident when I say this but all those guys are not going to be footnotes in cbb history like a Kevin Ollie or some random uber successful mid major coach that no one remembers from
60 years ago. Partly it has to do with that they’re at Kentucky because this program gives every and any coach with talent and ability a boost so guys like Cal and Pitino got the super boost because they’re that good. I think Pope has that same potential. Guys like Tubby and Joe B good good coaches but probably didn’t have that super drive that guys like Pitino or Cal have honestly

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

Dude, no way Rick performed “as expected” that first year. That was a 3-5 win roster that he won 14 games with.

LSU win was huge that year. The SEC wasn’t very impressive. We played Indiana close early if I remember right but all our out of conference wins were against bad teams and I remember Kansas killing us. You may be right about expectations but I guess my youth and naivety made me think an NBA coach should have been able to do what he did that season. lol Our first year of tournament eligibility was huge under him though and one of my favorite years as a fan.

 

[ImTheVillageIdiot]

LSU win was huge that year. The SEC wasn’t very impressive. We played Indiana close early if I remember right but all our out of conference wins were against bad teams and I remember Kansas killing us. You may be right about expectations but I guess my youth and naivety made me think an NBA coach should have been able to do what he did that season. lol Our first year of tournament eligibility was huge under him though and one of my favorite years as a fan.

I’m actually too young to remember the 1990 team, I was a toddler. It happens to be my all-time favorite Kentucky team though. I rewatch games from that season every year. Go on YouTube and rewatch some. The fact that we won 14 games with that roster is insane. I think it may have been Cawood who predicted something like 6 wins going into the year and it wasn’t a hot take. Reggie Hanson was decent. Derrick Miller was good but inefficient. Literally zero defense or any athleticism of any kind. Junior Braddy, a walkon, might have been the most athletic player on the team. Masterclass in coaching.

 

[michaeluk26]

I’m actually too young to remember the 1990 team, I was a toddler. It happens to be my all-time favorite Kentucky team though. I rewatch games from that season every year. Go on YouTube and rewatch some. The fact that we won 14 games with that roster is insane. I think it may have been Cawood who predicted something like 6 wins going into the year and it wasn’t a hot take. Reggie Hanson was decent. Derrick Miller was good but inefficient. Literally zero defense or any athleticism of any kind. Junior Braddy, a walkon, might have been the most athletic player on the team. Masterclass in coaching.

Got to hoop with Reggie Hansen as a younger teenager in the mid to late 90's. Really nice dude who might as well have been Michael Jordan to us as a former UK player. Played with his nephew all through Middle and High School.

 

[TopCatCal]

Mark Pope’s first year was pretty good overall and really promising. But where do you have him vs our other 1st years?

I go
Tubby > Calipari > Pope > Gillespie

I know all chalk. And I didn’t experience 1st year Pitino.

Not really a fair comparison. Considering that Rick Pitino inherited a train wreck, dumpster fire & Tubby Smith inherited the keys to Fort Knox.

 

[Fantom8888]

The truth about the 1998 team was that at one point the team had it with Tubby. Pitino’s teams were running, shooting 3’s, and a good defensive team. By the Mississippi game on Valentine’s Day at home they had had it with Tubby. UK lost that game and after the game most of the team silently were blaming the coach for the change in style of play. Scott Padgett after the game told the press if you want answers go see the coach. Won’t go in the details but they actually just started reverting back to the 2 previous years. From that point forward they played like the Pitino’s teams of 95,96,97.

 

[Whoppercat]

Based on fan excitement, Pitino was first. I went to Rupp for our last home game to try to scalp (buy) a ticket. Against a bad Auburn team, as I recall. We were on probation and needed the win to go .500 on the season. You couldn’t find a ticket.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

How in the world can anyone who was around put Pitino anywhere but #1? The NCAA gutted UK and left us with a bunch of Kentucky boys who had heart but were not that talented. NO other coach in the world could have finished as well as he did under the circumstances. At the time, fans knew that this was the start of something unbelievably special. Keep in mind with a FAR superior roster the year before Sutton had a losing record.

I have to whole heartedly agree with this comment. Much is made of the cupboard being bare for Pope, but at least Pople was able to get some talent out of the Transfer Portal. Pitino..not so much since there was no transfer portal back in the day. Watching those Kentucky kids grow into national powerhouse was one of the best times of all my years watching sports.

 

[Fantom8888]

Because he refused to play DA...

If DA played he would have won it, and my guess is Pitino would have stayed to see if he could have won 3 in a row. DA wanted to play but RP was fear full of injuring his knee again.

 

[Fantom8888]

Uhhhhhh....you are being sarcastic about not playing DA...or are you referring to potino, not Tubby?

Pitino

 

[Blueaz]

Uhhhhhh....you are being sarcastic about not playing DA...or are you referring to potino, not Tubby?

In my haste, I must have misread,...

 

[Blueaz]

If DA played he would have won it, and my guess is Pitino would have stayed to see if he could have won 3 in a row. DA wanted to play but RP was fear full of injuring his knee again.

IMO, his fear was "having" to use DA to win it... He wanted to show how great a coach he was, and win without him... JMO

 

[Wildcats1st]

Mark Pope’s first year was pretty good overall and really promising. But where do you have him vs our other 1st years?

I go
Tubby > Calipari > Pope > Gillespie

I know all chalk. And I didn’t experience 1st year Pitino.

1st year pitino had scholarship reductions, couldn’t play live on national tv, no tournaments. I’m making an adjustment and rating them on first year without operating under any sanctions. Also the first season tournament eligible.

Tubby>pitino>cal>Sutton>pope>gillespe

All 4 of tubby-Sutton went to the regional final in year one. I don’t see a way to rate this because of the climate and restrictions when pitino took over. We were close to the death penalty and any basketball alot of fans were thankful the ncaa didn’t go further in punishing us. The team pitino played with that made the regionals in 92 was far less talented than any of the other coaches in their 1st year.

Pitinos first year the guy was in the ncaaT (his first legit year 1st year with pitino we were eligible). Elite eight and a shot away from a final four. Maybe a title had we beat that powerful duke team that won it all.

Just to pump pitino a little more. I went to all the home games his first year and everyone was excited and hopeful. Everyone. Every win was basically an upset. He was left with no roster and no ability to build one. He was completely handcuffed but the fact he could win a game was like sticking it to the ncaa. Their intent was to bury uk basketball. And in pitinos first year he lead bbn with a collective signature move the middle finger. I put tubby ahead of him bc of course a title.

 

[bouncebackcats]

Not sure Tubby deserves the credit, considering he was given returning players coming off back to back title games.

Pope and Cal’s were the most impressive. Taking a program from ground zero and putting them back in the top 10 literally overnight. Pitino did well, too.

The inherited players from Pitino

Then why didn't pitino win the year before with better talent?

Ppl don't give tubby credit, that elite 8 game vs duke was a masterclass in coaching

Tubby did a masterful job with that 1998 championship team. It wasn’t nearly as talented as the ‘97 team that fell short. Not to mention that the freshman class that Pitino recruited was sub par—so not much help there. Myron Anthony? Ryan Hogan? Michael Bradley was the only decent prospect and he contributed very little to our run for #7. Oh yeah, we also got JP Blevins who committed early in his junior year. I know he didn’t play in 1998, but he never really panned out so Pitino’s recruiting before he left was below standard.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Because he refused to play DA...

So he needed even more talent?