If they are supposed to be safer why don't they use them in games? Is it just because they look weird? People would adjust to that.
Practice helmets
- Thread starter Glenn's take
- Start date
I've wondered this as well. It looks like they slide on top of a regular helmet.
I think of this every time I see those practice helmets.
I know HS is not the same level, but quite a few teams are wearing those Guardian systems in games, and if teams aren't some players are on their own. If we are truly concerned with player safety, why not make them mandatory?
If they do, they need to make it part of the helmet and not something that slides on top of them. One thing that was obvious was how easily they would slid off.
They help but not much. No matter how good pad technology gets, they can’t stop the brain from sloshing around inside the skull.
it seems like by now they would have some technological advancements far enough along to develop a helmet that isn't quite a hard shell but rather some sort of denser rubber material that is more shock absorbent something more like tire rubber.
The issue with helmet technology was mentioned by BlueRaider22.
All three of Newton's laws apply to the player, the helmets, the skull, and the brain. Without super advanced intra-cranial tech or something convoluted like that that somehow prevents the brain from smacking into the skull upon collision, the issue remains.
One could put a foot of dense foam padding around the entirety of a car, but they're still gonna get thrown around the cabin in a 55mph wreck. That's why seatbelts and airbags concurrently are so protective. Shock absorption is one thing, and it's great. Energy dispersal and stabilization is another, and tech's not quite there yet.
I don't know enough about physics to give an educated answer. But if every helmet had those Guardian type covers, it appears to me that would reduce impact. There would be 2 inches of absorbing shock that is currently not there, and 1 inch if not helmet to helmet. The outer shell looks like the inside of the 1980's style Riddell helmet. On a side note, haven't check on this in years, but a new helmet is retailing for 699$ in my little town. That was a UGA game helmet and likely had licensing fees. But just a helmet, no signings, nothing about NC. But I am guessing a good HS helmet is 400+ today.
I was off a little on the helmet. A Vivis helmet goes for 1k.
It works in nascar with the safer barriers.
They sure aren't pretty, and would take getting use to seeing. But if it help prevent concussions I am all for it. I really don't see how it wouldn't add some protecton.
The reason I am for it is that it adds safety without effecting the game at all.
Every little bit helps so why not. That’s how we improve the game make it safer even if it’s by an inch.
They said the same thing about NASCAR back when they used concrete walls instead of safer barriers. People said what’s it matter a car slamming into a wall at 160mph is always dangerous. Well millions have been spent across all these tracks because it does help even if it just saves one life
I think by using them in the spring game this year they are starting to get fans use to seeing them, so that will ultimately not be too shocking to see teams wearing them in regular season games.
Great explanation.
At one time I had sketched out a design for a "helmet" that would actually become a part of the shoulder pad so that the shock of an impacting helmet would actually transfer onto the shoulders instead of the head. It would be stationary and the head would move inside in all directions. However it seemed to restrict visibility too much to be practical. I still think ultimately they will have to design something like that which removes the impact from the head and neck area.
The problem is inside the skull. You can soften the blow to the outside of the head but the brain is moving at the same speed as the skull and when the skull stops the brain slams inside the skull where there is no padding outside of a little cerebral spinal fluid. Tough problem to fix.
I understand that, but it's the sudden impact that caused that. If every helmet had this device the sudden impact would be reduced. Now would it be reduced enough to make a big difference I don't know. But when you are looking at the cost of a helmet being 400-500$ for the bottom end helmets to 1000$ for the high end, what's 50 bucks to buy a little extra protection? No one likes the targeting calls, me included, I had much rather have this device than multiple targeting calls every game.
I’m not arguing against using any safety equipment. I’m just explaining that protecting the scalp and skull is unlikely to have a big impact on protecting the brain. The injury is due to rapid deceleration. If you want to know more about limitations of helmets in preventing brain injury read some about motorcycle trauma.
Bringing in targeting rules just muddies up this argument. Targeting can cause more than closed head injuries, ribs, abdominal organs, arms and most importantly neck injury. No one likes all those delays but it has served the purpose of limiting head and neck blows.
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I see what you’re saying but the difference isn’t very much at all. Also, replacing barriers in NASCAR didn’t affect performance. If replacing barriers meant the cars had to slow down, they likely wouldn’t have done it. Adding padding to helmets helps slightly but also hinders performance slightly.
Not sure this is true. While replacing the barriers would not have meant slowing down the cares, it's likely NASCAR would have done it even if it did. NASCAR is slowing down the cars anyway. They've been dropping the horse power for several years now.
I understand the deceleration causing brain injury. What I am saying is I believe those external pads would decrease that. Instead of the sudden impact of 2 solid helmets making contact and instant stopping, there would be contact made with 2 softer objects roughly an inch to an inch and half thick, giving 2-3 inches of deceleration instead of the sudden stop. Maybe it's only a minute amount, but that could be the difference in a normal life and not. Just my thoughts, nascar installed safer walls with give and it seems to have helped there.
Or maybe I am completely wrong and they would have no impact.
I doubt college teams are paying a retail markup for the helmets. If you're looking at an authentic helmet being sold as a piece of memorabilia or whatnot, then yeah, you're going to pay a substantial markup. I would venture to guess the schools have agreements with the uniform suppliers that saves them quite a bit on those.
One of the problems with America today is that we tend to leap immediately to the opposite corner in opposition. I never said you were completely anything. The point I was making is that the mechanism of injury makes it very difficult to prevent with helmet technology. The first thing I did say was that I was in favor of any safety measures so we actually agree.
I remember reading about tests for the externally padded helmet in the 80s & 90s. You certainly had (have) the risk of concussion with the hard shell helmet, but one advantage is the players' helmets ricochet off of one another. With externally padded helmets, you had the possibility of helmets not "glancing off" off and delivering the "hit energy" to the neck and spinal cord increasing the chance of a broken neck/paralysis.
I assume today's practice helmets are better than the ones tested 30 years ago. Either way, I suppose the graduate level health sciences and statistics crews would need to calculate which is the greater probability (hard shell concussion vs padded helmet neck injury) and factor in the greater & less catastrophic end-state between the two.
GBB!
I assume today's practice helmets are better than the ones tested 30 years ago. Either way, I suppose the graduate level health sciences and statistics crews would need to calculate which is the greater probability (hard shell concussion vs padded helmet neck injury) and factor in the greater & less catastrophic end-state between the two.
GBB!
As I understand it. They're great for younger players because the players aren't creating much force in hits. The cushioning had bigger effect in dampening smaller impacts. And in practice, players aren't going full speed, so they work there
As the players get bigger and faster, the cushioning makes a smaller difference. Now the downsides of the covers may not out weigh the benefits. They trap heat. They add weight. And there is concern they are “stickier". Head to head contact could lead to necks getting bent out of shape.
As the players get bigger and faster, the cushioning makes a smaller difference. Now the downsides of the covers may not out weigh the benefits. They trap heat. They add weight. And there is concern they are “stickier". Head to head contact could lead to necks getting bent out of shape.
Perhaps the extreme looseness of the padding on the helmets that someone mentioned earlier in the thread is meant to provide that extra padding while also preventing the "stickiness" that leads to spine injuries.
Probably so, but a HS helmet is 3-400 now, insurance is insane on manufactors and that gets passed on to the consumer. Now a school likely gets a discount, but a mom or dad going into a store for an upgrade doesn't
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