Pope Will Not Tighten Lineup

[Digger-Cat]

And where are you coaching again?

The thing with all these posts about lineups or substitution patterns is that there's no way to know what it would have been like if a different set of guys were on the floor. You people see us lose a lead, look at who's on the floor and then immediately blame Pope or whoever the coach is for a bad substitution pattern. When in fact, it might have actually been worse had the lineup change not been made. That's what makes these post so ignorant.

I don't need coaching experience to know that you should roll with Butler, Williams, Oweh, Carr and Brea when the other team is putting Broome, Denver Jones, Baker Mazara, Dillon Cardwell and freaking Miles Kelly out on the floor.

It's common sense that you play your best players, especially when it's a win, or go home situation.

 

[WildcatUKx]

This only works if the bench has good players, it's hard for him to play this way with Perry, Noah, and Chandler coming off the bench. Hopefully next year it'll be better and we will have better bench players

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I don't need coaching experience to know that you should roll with Butler, Williams, Oweh, Carr and Brea when the other team is putting Broome, Denver Jones, Baker Mazara, Dillon Cardwell and freaking Miles Kelly out on the floor.

It's common sense that you play your best players, especially when it's a win, or go home situation.

There are lineup +/- analytics for the entire season that explain this. Along with certain combos short of 5 (like last season when just about any combo that included Reed, Rob, and Antonio were superior lineups, no matter who the other two were) Even my HS team has access to that. It doesn't dictate our lineups, but it certainly helps us decide who has to play together for the lion's share of the minutes.

 

[Cleatortoises]

Or...and hear me out here...past messages with you have proven to show a lack of comprehension...Cals 2015 team played a bunch of dudes limited minutes and also had...wait for it...wait for it...9 guys on NBA rosters. Whoopsies.

Passive aggression isn't necessary.
My English comprehension is ok.
I knew you weren't talking about just this year by reading your original post.
A comprehension fact you overlooked.
Did we have 9 [some with a cup of coffee] because of PT opportunities?

 

[Digger-Cat]

As you should. I'll keep saying it, but being fixated on lineups does not make any sense. I think it's the people who don't understand more than simple concepts like that.

Nobody is fixated on anything, this is a message board, all anyone is doing, is discussing the basketball team. You don't just sit in silence on message boards and this is a good topic to discuss.
Why people get wound up over a difference of opinion, is bizarre to me. You can't possibly think anyone is crazy for thinking the best players should play more minutes here.
If you disagree, fine, but you can't attack people for feeling like it's March, we're depleted and our best 6 or 7 should play 32mpg, maybe more.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Passive aggression isn't necessary.
My English comprehension is ok.
I knew you weren't talking about just this year by reading your original post.
A comprehension fact you overlooked.
Did we have 9 [some with a cup of coffee] because of PT opportunities?

Don't confuse smart assery with passive aggression. Smart assery is my love language! It's all in good fun, promise.

I'd say the talent on that 2015 team was on the same level as 96, no? That's all my point was. Rick played that many dudes in 96 because that team was LOADED. Cal did the same in 2015. Cal is just a salesman, so he felt he needed a gimmick (platoon).

 

[know1]

Nobody is fixated on anything, this is a message board, all anyone is doing, is discussing the basketball team. You don't just sit in silence on message boards and this is a good topic to discuss.
Why people get wound up over a difference of opinion, is bizarre to me. You can't possibly think anyone is crazy for thinking the best players should play more minutes here.
If you disagree, fine, but you can't attack people for feeling like it's March, we're depleted and our best 6 or 7 should play 32mpg, maybe more.

Nobody's attacking anybody. And of course the "best" players should play the most minutes in general. But it's the people who get bent out of shape by substitutions in the games or who don't realize that certain situations affect minutes played, or that certain match-ups or strategies might make different lineups necessary in the moment that just don't understand basketball at all.

The constant blaming of our coaches - including Cal who I absolutely loathed almost everything about - over lineups and substitutions when the truth is that nobody has any idea what the outcome would have been if someone else had played 5 more minutes or a different person had substituted in, is perplexing.

 

[ManitouDan]

I don't need coaching experience to know that you should roll with Butler, Williams, Oweh, Carr and Brea when the other team is putting Broome, Denver Jones, Baker Mazara, Dillon Cardwell and freaking Miles Kelly out on the floor.

It's common sense that you play your best players, especially when it's a win, or go home situation.

Agreed , doesnt take red Auerbach to figure out we are getting nothing from Chandler and very little from Noah and getting abused when Perry is in the game against Top 6-8 teams ( Al, Tn , Auburn etc ) yeah I know Trent had a great game against 1 of them , but that performance was def a 1 off . I wish it wasnt . But Chandler is the one Pope likes to ride , and on the whole he keeps getting manhandled. Even though he's improved . Cant gamble your tourney life on those guys . Cmon .

 

[ManitouDan]

Nobody's attacking anybody. And of course the "best" players should play the most minutes in general. But it's the people who get bent out of shape by substitutions in the games or who don't realize that certain situations affect minutes played, or that certain match-ups or strategies might make different lineups necessary in the moment that just don't understand basketball at all.

The constant blaming of our coaches - including Cal who I absolutely loathed almost everything about - over lineups and substitutions when the truth is that nobody has any idea what the outcome would have been if someone else had played 5 more minutes or a different person had substituted in, is perplexing.

It's not perplexing to realize we dont have a guard , outside Butler , than can even handle man pressure full court when they are inserted into the game , we have to waste valuable energy , and. shot clock time having AW dribble the ball up the floor . So IMO that makes a guard that cant dribble up ( Perry and Chandler ) against firm man pressure , nearly unplayable . Or at least should be . And then get single;ed out on the defensive end immediately after insertion. I know injuries make it tough , but we have to shorten the leash on these guys . Go Blue

 

[Digger-Cat]

Nobody's attacking anybody. And of course the "best" players should play the most minutes in general. But it's the people who get bent out of shape by substitutions in the games or who don't realize that certain situations affect minutes played, or that certain match-ups or strategies might make different lineups necessary in the moment that just don't understand basketball at all.

The constant blaming of our coaches - including Cal who I absolutely loathed almost everything about - over lineups and substitutions when the truth is that nobody has any idea what the outcome would have been if someone else had played 5 more minutes or a different person had substituted in, is perplexing.

I don't think anyone is attacking Pope here, I think everyone has been fair.

Cal can go kick rocks, he was mind f*cking everyone and got to a point where he was doing things just for spite.

I do have a question though, other than 4 guys being in foul trouble, what situation can you describe that requires a hockey line change 3 minutes into the game that has Garrison, Noah, Perry and Almanor out there with one of the starters, most likely Oweh?

At the 3 minute mark, nobody should be gassed.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Now is not the time to worry about developing the bench, it's March, this is when you scale your lineup back and play the guys that give you the best chance to win.
Ralph explained what happened to BYU last year against Duquesne, he went with his bench guy (Khalifa) and it cost them.
Momentum is a thing and it matters, you cannot break your momentum and give it to your opponent in March trying to play guys that can't get the job done.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I don't think anyone is attacking Pope here, I think everyone has been fair.

Cal can go kick rocks, he was mind f*cking everyone and got to a point where he was doing things just for spite.

I do have a question though, other than 4 guys being in foul trouble, what situation can you describe that requires a hockey line change 3 minutes into the game that has Garrison, Noah, Perry and Almanor out there with one of the starters, most likely Oweh?

At the 3 minute mark, nobody should be gassed.

I know not directed at me, but here's a dipsticks (me) take on what a Rhodes scholar is thinking. You all should find the irony in that.

I honestly think those mass substitutions that often come prior to the first media TO is Pope trying to get everyone into the flow of the game early. Just my take.

Sometimes really smart guys with analytical minds can overthink things. That's kind of where I'm landing on Pope and the bench stuff.

 

[Farsight]

The main concern is not that Pope doesn’t want to tighten his line up, but rather when he makes substitution changes and how many players he subs out. He doesn’t need to semi-platoon. He needs to sub 1 out at a time and stagger it. Every time after his first substitution we immediately lose momentum or dig ourselves in a bigger hole. That literally happened in Auburn. Brought Perry in for Butler and Garrison in for Carr I think. And what happened, 2 turnovers and lost momemtum and never got it back.

It’s more about how he substitutes rather than tightening the roster.

 

[blue cincy]

Wait, not only did you run into Pope somewhere in Indianapolis, where the team was surely sequestered from the outside, but you had a conversation with MP, probably, what, when he was going to the ice machine? And he told you Mercer was toast and Miles and Simon were going to score easily on him? Man, I don't buy any of this.
The thought of Pope revealing that kind of information to a random fan the day of the title game, is too far fetched for me to believe.
Come on, you're yanking our chain, right?

Pope was not on the 97 team. He was working for Wkyt or Wlex at the time. Pope was not with the team at the time, Heck the team was probably still in bed. My brother and I got to Indy monday morning to take in all the sites and sounds of the National Championship day. Pope was in UK jacket and jeans. He was talking to tons of fans not just from UK. Best part of the weekend was Saturday night game. We purchased our 2 seat books from a UC fan after Kenyon Martin broke his leg. We ended up dead center of the Minnesota fans in the middle bowl. We had a blast with them. All nice people and it was a good game. Arizona fans dominated the cheers with a much smaller crowd both nights. They had people throughout the bowl and had sync cheers. It was cool for them.

 

[TTTblue24]

I think our conditioning is fine. Your and my 'opinion' really doesn't matter does it? Maybe your conditioning isn't fine and this is transference or something. Who gives a f*.

Wow, someone is a keyboard tough guy but if you don’t like the response…….then maybe just maybe you should just keep scrolling moron cause I didn’t ask for your jackass comment d-bag.

Man the pansies are out in full force, heaven forbid someone have an opinion that some lame ass teenager doesn’t like. Grow up & quit getting your panties in a wad over a message board.

 

[Padsfs07]

Now is not the time to worry about developing the bench, it's March, this is when you scale your lineup back and play the guys that give you the best chance to win.
Ralph explained what happened to BYU last year against Duquesne, he went with his bench guy (Khalifa) and it cost them.
Momentum is a thing and it matters, you cannot break your momentum and give it to your opponent in March trying to play guys that can't get the job done.

Khalifa started just about every game last year for BYU, including that game against Duquesne. In fact, it could be argued that Pope had his 3 best players coming off the bench last year in Robinson (vs Johnson), Saunders (vs Knell), and Traore (vs Waterman).

 

[blue cincy]

It’s obvious you’re not smart enough to understand my comment.

If you wanna win big, having players who are willing to sacrifice is a must. And guess what? I’m not sure we have many this year that fit into that category. That’s gonna hurt your little feelings but it’s the truth. My message to Pope would be to recruit national championship type players like Walker.

What’s your goal for UK from here on out, smart ass? You good just with tournament appearances?

I agree that this team (again that was put together with the leftover scraps of the portal last year in April) is not all Championship level. If my being silly hurt you, I apologize. Yeah I have been smartelic my whole life. That is what it is. My point is at this point in Popes UK career, telling him he did not get good players, he is not able to get good players or whatever is really just not a point worth making. Wait another year or two. Then if by then with his history of recruiting, recruiting the portal, keeping players, coaching mistakes and so forth, then this post will be a great post. Right now it is a little knee jerk reaction. I am a person that could be posting the same stuff but I have BCG a 1 year pass, I gave Pitino a couple year pass, I never liked Cal, never will, and did not ever want him here. So he does not count.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Khalifa started just about every game last year for BYU, including that game against Duquesne. In fact, it could be argued that Pope had his 3 best players coming off the bench last year in Robinson (vs Johnson), Saunders (vs Knell), and Traore (vs Waterman).

Robinson was about 8th, per the analytics, for BYU last year. About where he is on this team.

 

[Padsfs07]

Robinson was about 8th, per the analytics, for BYU last year. About where he is on this team.

That's true. I will say he wasn't far behind Johnson and Knell in those metrics. He was also their go-to scorer at 14 PPG and on the NBA radar. It was an odd season roster-wise at BYU.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

That's true. I will say he wasn't far behind Johnson and Knell in those metrics. He was also their go-to scorer at 14 PPG and on the NBA radar. It was an odd season roster-wise at BYU.

I think that's just the type of player he is. Streaky, volume scorer. Doesn't defend, rebound, handle, or pass all that well. Not awful, not good. Just doesn't amass many "numbers", which hurt his BPM. I shouted this from the mountains (ok, just this board) before the season, if JR is your "best player" your ceiling isn't very high. I love him, no knock. He's just not THAT DUDE.

 

[Padsfs07]

I think that's just the type of player he is. Streaky, volume scorer. Doesn't defend, rebound, handle, or pass all that well. Not awful, not good. Just doesn't amass many "numbers", which hurt his BPM. I shouted this from the mountains (ok, just this board) before the season, if JR is your "best player" your ceiling isn't very high. I love him, no knock. He's just not THAT DUDE.

Yeah. People can say that, but with everyone healthy, I would put him 4th-5th on this roster anyway. I think Williams, Oweh, and Butler are 1-3 with Robinson and Carr next. Robinson was doing a lot better in conference play and we did need his scoring and 46% 3pt shooting (conference play)

 

[Digger-Cat]

I know not directed at me, but here's a dipsticks (me) take on what a Rhodes scholar is thinking. You all should find the irony in that.

I honestly think those mass substitutions that often come prior to the first media TO is Pope trying to get everyone into the flow of the game early. Just my take.

Sometimes really smart guys with analytical minds can overthink things. That's kind of where I'm landing on Pope and the bench stuff.

I always thought it was Pope's way of stealing extra rest for his starters.
Pull them out a minute befor the first tv timeout so they get a head start on rest.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Pope was not on the 97 team. He was working for Wkyt or Wlex at the time. Pope was not with the team at the time, Heck the team was probably still in bed. My brother and I got to Indy monday morning to take in all the sites and sounds of the National Championship day. Pope was in UK jacket and jeans. He was talking to tons of fans not just from UK. Best part of the weekend was Saturday night game. We purchased our 2 seat books from a UC fan after Kenyon Martin broke his leg. We ended up dead center of the Minnesota fans in the middle bowl. We had a blast with them. All nice people and it was a good game. Arizona fans dominated the cheers with a much smaller crowd both nights. They had people throughout the bowl and had sync cheers. It was cool for them.

Brain fart on my part, I knew Pope wasn't on the 97 team, that one got by me.
It's just odd he would reveal that info.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I always thought it was Pope's way of stealing extra rest for his starters.
Pull them out a minute befor the first tv timeout so they get a head start on rest.

I could buy that too. Still think, 3 mins into the game, it's overthinking.

 

[blue cincy]

Brain fart on my part, I knew Pope wasn't on the 97 team, that one got by me.
It's just odd he would reveal that info.

He was very nice to talk to. He actually had about 10 or 15 minutes before he had to be somewhere. He talked to me and my brother for about 3 to 5 minutes. He answered all our questions, I think pretty honestly. Mercer was wore out that game. Epps stepped up big time, Nazi (if i recall stepped up). Besides the Runner up part of the weekend, it was an awesome experience.

 

[GoNoles111]

Perry and Noah would be okay in the 90s SEC where like 2 programs cared about Basketball. THIS SEC, which shows no signs of slowing down with NIL, I don't see them ever being more than the 8th or 9th man IF you truly want to be competitive and Elite.

 

[ukfan1622]

Well,this is what I'd do if I were in Pope's situation:
I'd start Butler, Oweh, Brea, Carr, and Williams and play them all 32 minutes per game together. Then I'd bring in Garrison, Almonor, Noah, Chandler, and Perry together for either two 2 minute stretches each half or one 4 minute stretch each half, preferably when the other team is resting their star(s). That 2nd five has 3 great shooters and there would be games where they hit a couple threes and outscore the other team but all they'd have to do would be not get outscored much in their 8 minutes.

Get your best five on the floor together as much as you can while still giving them rest; I thought we all learned that last year.

 

[bbncal02]

Perry and Noah would be okay in the 90s SEC where like 2 programs cared about Basketball. THIS SEC, which shows no signs of slowing down with NIL, I don't see them ever being more than the 8th or 9th man IF you truly want to be competitive and Elite.

The 90s SEC was tough amongst like 4 teams. Us, Arky, Miss St and Florida. The rest was pretty blah.

 

[UKortho]

Nothing about CBB resembles the NBA.

The object of depth is to call upon it when it's needed throughout the season. As the season and particular games unfold, you win by playing the guys who are playing the best, not by forcing a rotation. Most teams who win in March tighten the rotation/not expand it. Pope was part of the one of the few teams who was so deep and talented it was unreal--and that's why they were considered one of the greatest teams ever to play in CBB. That's an exception, not reality.

If a player is playing productive basketball, it's fine if he's at "80%" because his 80% is better than the guy behind him coming in at 100%. But it is his coaching philosophy so we're just going to have to hope it works. I saw him lose an NCAA Tournament game by going back to Khalifa (Fat Egyptian guy) in a game where he was so putrid he was a momentum shifter in the game. But that's what Pope believes/did and it cost him a chance to win a game. Realize we're not at his level but at some point we also shouldn't have the same amount of NCAA Tournaments wins when none of us are employed at the Collegiate level. This needs to be looked at after the season when they self evaluate. From all things read....not expecting change in philosophy so there will have to be a major increase in roster talent to justify and succeed using that approach.

Yea. They are totally different. My point is Pope is coaching somewhat similar to the NBA. For example, Perry came in for Butler recently and after a couple of minutes there was one of those long reviews, free throws, and a timeout. Perry was trotted right back out there. He has done that all season with other players even if they are hot. He knows the minute distributions before the game starts and he doesn’t budge.

Pregame approach looks similar from what I have seen. Keep emotions out of it and go to work.