Pope Will Not Tighten Lineup

[ManitouDan]

He doesnt stagger or shorten the lineup in the SECT and the NCAAT it will bite us in the backside . A slightly tired top 7 for us beats a fresh freshman Chandler/Noah/Perry by a large % . You can do anything but steal 2-3 minutes with any of those 3 . Any of the top 3-4 SEC teams just eat them alive and it hurts the team. and BTW this doesnt relate at all to complaining about Cal .Its 2 totally different scenarios .

 

[Digger-Cat]

My biggest complaint this season has been not staggering the subs more. Don’t bring them in together as much but stagger a bit.

This.
Long before the first tv timeout, he pulls 3 or 4 of our starters and does a hockey line change. I wish he would stagger those personnel changes out. Having Perry, Noah, Chandler and Garrison out there together, is a disaster.
He sees something in the numbers though, so I'll back off on it and hope for the hest.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Why would he tighten the lineup? Can anyone explain why that's a good idea?

I think most fans want to see the starters on the court for 30-32 minutes and less of the bench guys.
It's not a far fetched idea, a lot of teams play their best players as many minutes as possible.

 

[Cleatortoises]

I don't recall anyone hating on Cal for playing tighter lineups. Do you have an example?
The only thing I recall that is even close, was Cal's favoritism towards certain players that shouldn't have been playing and him putting certain other players in his doghouse.
He obviously made promises to certain players (Boston, Edwards, Wheeler the Dragon erc… ) but he still used his bench.

I did and so did most of the fans I know.
As mentioned here before, 2015.
One injury and he dropped the platoon instead of staying with the plan and inserting the next man up. We had won 36 in a row at that point.
The next year, he said we will never do that [platoon] again. I thought he had cracked the code, just run em into the ground.

 

[JonathanW]

What if we don't? Play your best guys. I don't understand why coaches struggle with this.

Players can’t give their best when they are tired. Then there are also fouls.
Now I don’t see why Amari can’t play 31. But yeah 38 for Brea seems a bit much. I’d top him out at 34-36

 

[trueblujr2]

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I just don't understand why Pope is being this way about lineups.

Amari may not can play that long but Brea can certainly play 30+ minutes.

Pope is all about analytics. He and his staff have analyzed how long each guy can go before their effectiveness starts to decline. Meaning he uses that to know when to give guys breaks. Some guys can go at peak longer than others. Brea hasn't played 38 minutes in a game all year so he had to be gassed. That's what Pope refers to. Injuries have obviously forced his hand at playing guys longer than they should.

 

[trueblujr2]

I did and so did most of the fans I know.
As mentioned here before, 2015.
One injury and he dropped the platoon instead of staying with the plan and inserting the next man up. We had won 36 in a row at that point.
The next year, he said we will never do that [platoon] again. I thought he had cracked the code, just run em into the ground.

A lot of us railed on Cal for not playing more guys. We always loved Pitinos method of playing a lot of guys, rotating guys in and out, building a deep bench and the ability to wear opponents out with it. Under Cal we routinely had guys getting gassed while others languished on the bench. Bryce Hopkins comes to mind. Cal was pretty stubborn about who got minutes.

 

[know1]

I think most fans want to see the starters on the court for 30-32 minutes and less of the bench guys.
It's not a far fetched idea, a lot of teams play their best players as many minutes as possible.

Right, but doesn't the best player for a particular game or situation change depending on the circumstance, match up, foul trouble, who's hot, etc.?

 

[Eagles_Ball]

So what they do as freshmen determines their career?
D. Booker says hello.
Sky walker 7ppg frosh/ 22 Jr

The post was about this year. I think all three have the potential to be quality rotation pieces, possibly even next year. This year is too soon. If we have to play those guys more than 5-8 mins, we're in trouble.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

So your strategy is that we're better off running our starters into the ground even though the last 5 minutes they may be tanked? We should do it because we can't rely on our bench? There are negatives both ways. Does your boy Bruce do that? I thought he had an expansive bench this year.

Those starters NEED to play 30-34 mins per game. If that's "running them into the ground", then sign me up. Most programs play their best that many minutes. Our situation has changed due to injury. Our bench can't cover 75-90 mins per game as it is now. The quality and depth isn't there.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

You rarely have anything positive to say about anything so any approach that you disagree with might not be the wrong choice

I'm positive the bench (the current version) has gotten crushed in games this year. There's plenty of data to back that up.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Gotta develop them. I don’t think it’s been all bad. We can certainly see their weaknesses but there are also bright spots. So have I seen enough to know? No.

You don't develop in March.

 

[Lempface]

So, we used to bitch about Cal playing his starters 36 mpg, having no depth, riding the starters so hard they get hurt and we only have seven healthy guys available any given night by Valentine's Day.

Now, we are mad Pope uses a longer bench to play 8-10 guys in an effort to keep starters fresh.

Alright then.

See what you're missing here is... If you are winning then everything the coach does is right. If you are losing then everything the coach does is wrong. Don't forget, the things the coach did last week in a win that were right can easily become wrong the following week in a loss.

 

[TTTblue24]

How in the ever loving goodness gracious just you jump to this conclusion. SMH

Careless turnovers, mental lapses and end of games for one & lack of ball pressure on defense could be from being tired. Anyone that’s played competitive sports understands what fatigue can do to you…….so that’s where I get it from plus injuries COULD be from lack of training etc. Where did I say this WAS the reason?? Good grief some people make a mountain out of a mole hill on here way too often.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

Huh? Not sure what you’re trying to say but if you’re implying that I wouldn’t have noticed the upside of a guy like Broome who averaged 13 and 9 as a freshman, then I’m 100% you’re wrong.

Or Sears who averaged almost 9 as a freshman and 19 as a sophomore, then again, you’re 100% wrong.

Then the Holy Cross kid from Kentucky would be a championship player by your logic.

 

[Cleatortoises]

The post was about this year. I think all three have the potential to be quality rotation pieces, possibly even next year. This year is too soon. If we have to play those guys more than 5-8 mins, we're in trouble.

This year?
Perry/ Noah/ Chandler aren't winning you a title this year OR 4 yrs from now.
Signed,
Eagles Ball
Okay then.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

This year?
Perry/ Noah/ Chandler aren't winning you a title this year OR 4 yrs from now.
Signed,
Eagles Ball
Okay then.

Goodness. You just pick what you want and then run with it. Let me try to simplify it for you.

This year...those three guys aren't rotation pieces for a team that's capable of making any kind of a run.

Next year, maybe, certainly I think their junior and senior years they are capable rotation pieces.

Nowhere in their 4 year career would they be responsible for winning a title at UK. Meaning? They'll be rotation pieces, but not the key to winning a championship or even a FF trip. We can't build around those three guys and expect to win big.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Nobody played huge mins on 96 team.

That team had 9 dudes that made an NBA roster at some point or another.

Approximately 9 more than this one will have.

 

[Digger-Cat]

I did and so did most of the fans I know.
As mentioned here before, 2015.
One injury and he dropped the platoon instead of staying with the plan and inserting the next man up. We had won 36 in a row at that point.
The next year, he said we will never do that [platoon] again. I thought he had cracked the code, just run em into the ground.

I mean, that team lost 1 game and when you look at how they started, they were just that much better than everyone at the beginning and the team leveled off a little bit and it wasn't due to the no platoon thing, it was because Calipari didn't use his weapons properly.
The loss to Wisconsin was from JC taking the air out of the ball, but I don't see how the 2015 platoon has any resemblance to this team. 2015 had 10 damn good players that deserves playing time, 2025 has 5.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Right, but doesn't the best player for a particular game or situation change depending on the circumstance, match up, foul trouble, who's hot, etc.?

Right, but there's a steep drop off after our best 5, that's the issue.
There is no world where Perry is a better option than Butler, there is no world where Noah is a better option than Carr, there is no world where Garrison is a better option than Amari and there is no world where Chandler is a better option than Oweh.

But the biggest thing for me is the hockey line changes. You can't have Perry, Noah, Garrison and Almonor out there at the same time against SEC competition, it's just a bad idea.

 

[Digger-Cat]

Pope is all about analytics. He and his staff have analyzed how long each guy can go before their effectiveness starts to decline. Meaning he uses that to know when to give guys breaks. Some guys can go at peak longer than others. Brea hasn't played 38 minutes in a game all year so he had to be gassed. That's what Pope refers to. Injuries have obviously forced his hand at playing guys longer than they should.

I don't think we need analytics to tell us that you can't play Garrison, Noah, Perry and Chandler for more than a couple minutes here and there against anybody that Auburn, Florida, or Alabama is putting out there.

Yes, guys have to rest, but does it have to be at the same time?

 

[Digger-Cat]

Man, I'm not really sure these guys are all that tired at the end of games. Maybe Butler and Carr due to their injuries, but look what Oweh did at Oklahoma, wasn't that at a point where he should have been tired? He had more pop in his game than at any other point the last 10 minutes.

Brea hit two 3's back to back late in the Auburn game.

Amari Williams looks as strong at the end of these games as he does at any other point.

I just think you have to play your best players 30-34 mpg, but I respect what CMP is doing, I just think he will eventually change that philosophy.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Does your boy Bruce do that?

I can't stand Pearl. Not sure where that came from.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

It’s the NBA model. Just like his pre game routine.

Nothing about CBB resembles the NBA.

The object of depth is to call upon it when it's needed throughout the season. As the season and particular games unfold, you win by playing the guys who are playing the best, not by forcing a rotation. Most teams who win in March tighten the rotation/not expand it. Pope was part of the one of the few teams who was so deep and talented it was unreal--and that's why they were considered one of the greatest teams ever to play in CBB. That's an exception, not reality.

If a player is playing productive basketball, it's fine if he's at "80%" because his 80% is better than the guy behind him coming in at 100%. But it is his coaching philosophy so we're just going to have to hope it works. I saw him lose an NCAA Tournament game by going back to Khalifa (Fat Egyptian guy) in a game where he was so putrid he was a momentum shifter in the game. But that's what Pope believes/did and it cost him a chance to win a game. Realize we're not at his level but at some point we also shouldn't have the same amount of NCAA Tournaments wins when none of us are employed at the Collegiate level. This needs to be looked at after the season when they self evaluate. From all things read....not expecting change in philosophy so there will have to be a major increase in roster talent to justify and succeed using that approach.

 

[Cleatortoises]

Goodness. You just pick what you want and then run with it. Let me try to simplify it for you.

This year...those three guys aren't rotation pieces for a team that's capable of making any kind of a run.

Next year, maybe, certainly I think their junior and senior years they are capable rotation pieces.

Nowhere in their 4 year career would they be responsible for winning a title at UK. Meaning? They'll be rotation pieces, but not the key to winning a championship or even a FF trip. We can't build around those three guys and expect to win big.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the confusion.

You said what you said and it wasn't this.
Whether or not they are a pivotal piece, you dont know.
Keyboard coaches are still undefeated.

 

[OliverSimmonstwinbrother]

The substitution pattern in theory is a good idea but the talent level of our bench vs the SEC is the issue this season. Hopefully next season that won't be an issue and we will wear teams down.

 

[Cleatortoises]

That team had 9 dudes that made an NBA roster at some point or another.

Approximately 9 more than this one will have.

Would they have made the show if they never got to play?
With🐄, 4 would have transferred.

 

[Padsfs07]

This.
Long before the first tv timeout, he pulls 3 or 4 of our starters and does a hockey line change. I wish he would stagger those personnel changes out. Having Perry, Noah, Chandler and Garrison out there together, is a disaster.
He sees something in the numbers though, so I'll back off on it and hope for the hest.

I think it was not as bad when the second unit was Krissa, Brea, Chandler, Almonor, and Garrison. He also usually left Robinson in with 4 of them, bringing Chandler in at the under 12 with a couple of the starters.

 

[Cleatortoises]

I mean, that team lost 1 game and when you look at how they started, they were just that much better than everyone at the beginning and the team leveled off a little bit and it wasn't due to the no platoon thing, it was because Calipari didn't use his weapons properly.
The loss to Wisconsin was from JC taking the air out of the ball, but I don't see how the 2015 platoon has any resemblance to this team. 2015 had 10 damn good players that deserves playing time, 2025 has 5.

either way, I complained about him tightening the lineup. [The initial assertion]

 

[Eagles_Ball]

You said what you said and it wasn't this.
Whether or not they are a pivotal piece, you dont know.
Keyboard coaches are still undefeated.

I said those three weren't winning you a title. You can interpret however you want. I simply tried to clarify what I said for you. If you choose not to believe it or stick your fingers in your ear like a toddler, that's on you.

But you are correct, I don't know. It's what I think. My bad if only facts are to be distributed on this board.

 

[Cleatortoises]

I said those three weren't winning you a title. You can interpret however you want. I simply tried to clarify what I said for you. If you choose not to believe it or stick your fingers in your ear like a toddler, that's on you.

But you are correct, I don't know. It's what I think. My bad if only facts are to be distributed on this board.

Fair enough.
It was originally a declarative statement.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Would they have made the show if they never got to play?
With🐄, 4 would have transferred.

Or...and hear me out here...past messages with you have proven to show a lack of comprehension...Cals 2015 team played a bunch of dudes limited minutes and also had...wait for it...wait for it...9 guys on NBA rosters. Whoopsies.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

Fair enough.
It was originally a declarative statement.

Lol. I mean, all of my opinions I believe. All good. I enjoy the banter. Just know, I don't have a magic 8 ball. Most everything I say on here is just an opinion.

 

[BarefootBeach]

Those starters NEED to play 30-34 mins per game. If that's "running them into the ground", then sign me up. Most programs play their best that many minutes. Our situation has changed due to injury. Our bench can't cover 75-90 mins per game as it is now. The quality and depth isn't there.

I think I'll stick with pope, his analytics, and his assistants' input over your opinion.

 

[Eagles_Ball]

I think I'll stick with pope, his analytics, and his assistants' input over your opinion.

I'd say that's your only choice. I haven't been given the platform...yet...but man, when I do. I'm bringing back the silver uniforms too, just an FYI.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Pope is playing wrong Alan Parsons Project song to start the game

 

[know1]

Right, but there's a steep drop off after our best 5, that's the issue.
There is no world where Perry is a better option than Butler, there is no world where Noah is a better option than Carr, there is no world where Garrison is a better option than Amari and there is no world where Chandler is a better option than Oweh.

But the biggest thing for me is the hockey line changes. You can't have Perry, Noah, Garrison and Almonor out there at the same time against SEC competition, it's just a bad idea.

And where are you coaching again?

The thing with all these posts about lineups or substitution patterns is that there's no way to know what it would have been like if a different set of guys were on the floor. You people see us lose a lead, look at who's on the floor and then immediately blame Pope or whoever the coach is for a bad substitution pattern. When in fact, it might have actually been worse had the lineup change not been made. That's what makes these posts so ignorant.

 

[know1]

I think I'll stick with pope, his analytics, and his assistants' input over your opinion.

As you should. I'll keep saying it, but being fixated on lineups does not make any sense. I think it's the people who don't understand more than simple concepts like that.

 

[Digger-Cat]

I think it was not as bad when the second unit was Krissa, Brea, Chandler, Almonor, and Garrison. He also usually left Robinson in with 4 of them, bringing Chandler in at the under 12 with a couple of the starters.

Yeah, that's fine against mid major teams, but against SEC competition and anyone we might see after the first round of the NCAAT, it's a bad idea to play our second unit simultaneously.

Pope is going to roll with it, but with the guys we have coming off the bench, I'm going on record as saying it's a bad idea.

 

[runt#69]

I was in favor of Coach Pope expanding the lineup by suiting up the waterboy and mascot in the first half against Auburn. That would've made for must see TV ! As it stood, it was the only thing I could do to sit there with lube in hand and watch Joe Lindsay pause the game multiple times until halftime got there.

So what do I know ?