POLL: Is there a God ??

[mcnicKY91]

Its seems strange beyond reasoning that if there is a Creator God out there in the Universe, that is loving and desires a personal relationship with all mankind, he would reveal himself to ALL people, instead of a relatively small band of goat herders in the Middle East. Its seems logical to assumer that there's a better way to spread his word throughout humanity than the tip of a spear or burning non believers at the stake. It would also som

If this creator is all knowing it would seem logical that his creation would be endowed with a permanent, universal understanding of his truth instead of waiting for it to evolve over time. One would also expect that if we are to experience the most cruel, inhumane torture imaginable for ALL of eternity for failing to believe, that the least the all wise creator could do is leave a clear, consistent, easy to understand instruction manual that wouldn't be cobbled together over thousands of years and depends on translating languages that are no longer spoken today.

I mean, God could come down from Heaven right now and do precisely what you are asking...like in the exact manner you want.

Still wouldn't matter. The vast majority of ppl would still not believe. The one thing I have learned about most atheists (and I am not saying this applies to you, just an observation in general), they do not want, under any circumstances, God to exist. They hate Him beyond belief (no pun intended), yet they say he doesn't exist. Essentially, they are hating someone they say doesn't exist.

To give you some biblical perspective, Jesus performed miracle after miracle. Brought the dead to life, healed the lame, etc. The Jewish leaders wanted nothing to do with Him despite all the visual evidence that He was God. It would be no different today. Would probably be chalked up to AI.

 

[Nightwish84]

I mean, God could come down from Heaven right now and do precisely what you are asking...like in the exact manner you want.

Still wouldn't matter. The vast majority of ppl would still not believe. The one thing I have learned about most atheists (and I am not saying this applies to you, just an observation in general), they do not want, under any circumstances, God to exist. They hate Him beyond belief (no pun intended), yet they say he doesn't exist. Essentially, they are hating someone they say doesn't exist.

To give you some biblical perspective, Jesus performed miracle after miracle. Brought the dead to life, healed the lame, etc. The Jewish leaders wanted nothing to do with Him despite all the visual evidence that He was God. It would be no different today. Would probably be chalked up to AI.

FWIW, "most atheists" just don't believe or have faith that God, or a god, exists. That's really it. They don't hate life nor do they hate your life. They don't hate God or a god because again, in their minds, there's nothing to hate because the belief isn't there. It's like saying atheists hate purple dragons or something. As an atheist, believe what you want but please don't speak as if you know how most atheists around the world feel and please stop pretending that because we don't believe what you may believe in, that we're raging with hate and contempt. We're just living our lives, like you.

I find it odd when one person on the internet tries to speak for or acts like they know how millions of others around the globe feel.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Many atheists here have told Christians that their belief in a God is a Freudian fear to find answers where there is none or mocked their faith in various ways. Yet, atheists get offended when a Christian generalizes about atheists.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I mean, God could come down from Heaven right now and do precisely what you are asking...like in the exact manner you want.

Still wouldn't matter. The vast majority of ppl would still not believe. The one thing I have learned about most atheists (and I am not saying this applies to you, just an observation in general), they do not want, under any circumstances, God to exist. They hate Him beyond belief (no pun intended), yet they say he doesn't exist. Essentially, they are hating someone they say doesn't exist.

To give you some biblical perspective, Jesus performed miracle after miracle. Brought the dead to life, healed the lame, etc. The Jewish leaders wanted nothing to do with Him despite all the visual evidence that He was God. It would be no different today. Would probably be chalked up to AI.

The only reason that you don't believe that Zeus is real, is because you hate him. And the only reason you don't believe that Amun-Ra, or Odin, or Quetzalcoatl exist is because you hate all of them as well. You hate them and you don't want them to exist.

You'll likely deny this, or laugh it off as being preposterous. But as a fellow atheist, I know the truth about how you feel.

 

[SDC888]

The only reason that you don't believe that Zeus is real, is because you hate him. And the only reason you don't believe that Amun-Ra, or Odin, or Quetzalcoatl exist is because you hate all of them as well. You hate them and you don't want them to exist.

You'll likely deny this, or laugh it off as being preposterous. But as a fellow atheist, I know the truth about how you feel.

Or you don't hate them because you know they don't exist.

Is there a forum thread in honor of Zeus you religiously post your objections in?

 

[SDC888]

Debate. The two men can debate without the passive aggressive or childish dismissiveness we sometimes see:

View embedded media

Interestingly, Dawkins there states/implies there is enough evidence and reason to believe in a Creator who fashioned the Universe, that he could be Persuaded by such an argument, just not a Personal One.

So, his true objection is not the scientific validity or logic of a Divine Mind which is solely and ultimately responsible for the miracle that is life and the universe, but against Jesus Christ, with whom Christians enter into personal relationship with as Lord and Savior.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Or you don't hate them because you know they don't exist.

Is there a forum thread in honor of Zeus you religiously post your objections in?

If I might give you some perspective…

Did you know that it is written in Hesiod’s Theogony that after Zeus was born, his father, Cronus, began eating Zeus’ siblings. But Zeus’ mother, Rhea, hid Zeus so he wouldn’t be eaten. Once Zeus reaching adulthood he forced Cronus to vomit up his siblings, thereby saving them. And even though this heartwarming and definitely factual story is written for all to read, there are many that don’t believe that it’s true at all. How can anyone deny the truth when it is written right there? The only possible explanation is that the deniers hate Zeus, and they wish he wasn’t real.

 

[SDC888]

If I might give you some perspective…

Did you know that it is written in Hesiod’s Theogony that after Zeus was born, his father, Cronus, began eating Zeus’ siblings. But Zeus’ mother, Rhea, hid Zeus so he wouldn’t be eaten. Once Zeus reaching adulthood he forced Cronus to vomit up his siblings, thereby saving them. And even though this heartwarming and definitely factual story is written for all to read, there are many that don’t believe that it’s true at all. How can anyone deny the truth when it is written right there? The only possible explanation is that the deniers hate Zeus, and they wish he wasn’t real.

Yeah, you didn't give any perspective. I understood what you meant.

Did you get what I meant? No, probably not. What compels you to post? Take myself, let's analogize. I think pro-wrestling is ridiculous. Even when I was a kid I thought it was: yet you don't see me posting in their Catpaw thread about how stupid it is, how grown men enjoying kayfabe is for the weak, do you?

 

[Ron Mehico]

Yeah, you didn't give any perspective. I understood what you meant.

Did you get what I meant? No, probably not. What compels you to post? Take myself, let's analogize. I think pro-wrestling is ridiculous. Even when I was a kid I thought it was: yet you don't see me posting in their Catpaw thread about how stupid it is, how grown men enjoying kayfabe is for the weak, do you?

There are 294 people that voted in this poll, with 67 that said no, and there have probably only been 10 people (if that) consistently posting for the last year in this thread.

 

[cole854]

There are 294 people that voted in this poll, with 67 that said no, and there have probably only been 10 people (if that) consistently posting for the last year in this thread.

Mind blowing insight, right there.

 

[SDC888]

There are 294 people that voted in this poll, with 67 that said no, and there have probably only been 10 people (if that) consistently posting for the last year in this thread.

I'm talking about one specific poster, not necessarily generalizing to every single person who might think similarly.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

“Who is able to advise the Spirit of the Lord? Who knows enough to give him advice or teach him? Has the Lord ever needed anyone’s advice? Does he need instruction about what is good? Did someone teach him what is right or show him the path of justice?”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Yeah, you didn't give any perspective. I understood what you meant.

Did you get what I meant? No, probably not. What compels you to post? Take myself, let's analogize. I think pro-wrestling is ridiculous. Even when I was a kid I thought it was: yet you don't see me posting in their Catpaw thread about how stupid it is, how grown men enjoying kayfabe is for the weak, do you?

This is a discussion forum. I like to discuss things. And this thread is about a question, “is there a god?”. That’s an invitation to debate, right? If there was a thread titled “Is pro rasslin’ real or fake?”, you might feel compelled to offer your answer, yes?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Interestingly, Dawkins there states/implies there is enough evidence and reason to believe in a Creator who fashioned the Universe, that he could be Persuaded by such an argument, just not a Personal One.

So, his true objection is not the scientific validity or logic of a Divine Mind which is solely and ultimately responsible for the miracle that is life and the universe, but against Jesus Christ, with whom Christians enter into personal relationship with as Lord and Savior.

It’s difficult to study science and not see design and the need for an intelligent catalyst. It’s really the only topic the atheists in this thread tend to avoid. Many tout science, but most are just regurgitating and not really thinking about it. Heck, getting them to admit that it takes faith to believe many of the things they believe is nearly impossible. They also often try to argue for an objective innate morality, not realizing that their argument is arbitrary.

Rather, the objective here for most atheists is to condemn religion and attack your faith. Atheism in that context has all the hallmarks of bad religion.

 

[megablue]

There are 294 people that voted in this poll, with 67 that said no, and there have probably only been 10 people (if that) consistently posting for the last year in this thread.

Yes. As I stated in the opening post, probably the biggest question mankind has ever asked and perhaps the most interesting, as well. I suspect there are many more, on both sides of it, that have visited but do not post.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

The middle-aged man who has scantily clad young women in his avatar probably does not want to know there is an objective morality that says lust and the objectification of women is unhealthy. If he knows in his heart it is unhealthy, he probably does not like anything that reminds him of that fact.

 

[mcnicKY91]

FWIW, "most atheists" just don't believe or have faith that God, or a god, exists. That's really it. They don't hate life nor do they hate your life. They don't hate God or a god because again, in their minds, there's nothing to hate because the belief isn't there. It's like saying atheists hate purple dragons or something. As an atheist, believe what you want but please don't speak as if you know how most atheists around the world feel and please stop pretending that because we don't believe what you may believe in, that we're raging with hate and contempt. We're just living our lives, like you.

I find it odd when one person on the internet tries to speak for or acts like they know how millions of others around the globe feel.

You can have your opinion, that is fine.

This thread in of itself shows just how many atheists hate the idea of God existing. Absolutely hate it. Whether or not that is a fair representation of atheists in general is open to opinion. But the hate I see for a God, especially the one in the Bible, apart from this thread and in the real world is rampant.

I never said anything about atheists hating life or atheists hating my life. I have no idea where you got that from.

 

[mcnicKY91]

The only reason that you don't believe that Zeus is real, is because you hate him. And the only reason you don't believe that Amun-Ra, or Odin, or Quetzalcoatl exist is because you hate all of them as well. You hate them and you don't want them to exist.

You'll likely deny this, or laugh it off as being preposterous. But as a fellow atheist, I know the truth about how you feel.

No, the reason I believe that Jesus Christ is God and died on the cross for all of humanity's sin and rose from the dead is because of all the historical, prophetic, and archeological evidence that supports my belief...all of which dwarfs the combined evidence of all other gods.

You on the other hand have made your hate for the God of the Bible more obvious then most of the other atheists in this thread.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

No, the reason I believe that Jesus Christ is God and died on the cross for all of humanity's sin and rose from the dead is because of all the historical, prophetic, and archeological evidence that supports my belief...all of which dwarfs the combined evidence of all other gods.

You on the other hand have made your hate for the God of the Bible more obvious then most of the other atheists in this thread.

I find your claims of overwhelming evidence to be quite curious. Even more curious is your confusion between disbelief and hate. Those two things are not the same.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I find your claims of overwhelming evidence to be quite curious. Even more curious is your confusion between disbelief and hate. Those two things are not the same.

No, I am not confusing anything. Everyone in this thread, even the other atheists, are well aware of your hate for a God you say doesn't exist. You are lying to everyone by stating otherwise.

You are also the exact same poster who went from repeatedly saying you don't believe God exists, to saying God does not exist, which are two completely different statements. Like many atheists, you can't even keep your own position consistent.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

No, I am not confusing anything. Everyone in this thread, even the other atheists, are well aware of your hate for a God you say doesn't exist. You are lying to everyone by stating otherwise.

You are also the exact same poster who went from repeatedly saying you don't believe God exists, to saying God does not exist, which are two completely different statements. Like many atheists, you can't even keep your own position consistent.

I don’t believe leprechauns exist. Also, leprechauns do not exist. How is that inconsistent?

And by saying this I’m sure you now think I hate leprechauns.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I don’t believe leprechauns exist. Also, leprechauns do not exist. How is that inconsistent?

And by saying this I’m sure you now think I hate leprechauns.

I am sorry that you do not understand the massive difference in those two statements.

Perhaps one of your fellow atheist friends will enlighten you.

 

[michaeluk26]

I was an agnostic from 16-38. Had a bad experience at church. But when my dad was in the hospital for MRSA, double pneumonia and sepsis all at once the doctor told us we had better start making arrangements cause he only had a 5% chance of recovering. Mind you this was less than a year from when he was ran over by a tractor and life flighted to UK. I went home and broke down on my knees and prayed for 30 minutes to please take me instead of my Dad. Two days later he regains consciousness and makes a full recovery at 81 years old. I've believed in God since. Plus I really dig Jesus philosophy on life after a life of insane amounts of violence. I've done a 180 because of his teachings.

 

[megablue]

I was an agnostic from 16-38. Had a bad experience at church. But when my dad was in the hospital for MRSA, double pneumonia and sepsis all at once the doctor told us we had better start making arrangements cause he only had a 5% chance of recovering. Mind you this was less than a year from when he was ran over by a tractor and life flighted to UK. I went home and broke down on my knees and prayed for 30 minutes to please take me instead of my Dad. Two days later he regains consciousness and makes a full recovery at 81 years old. I've believed in God since. Plus I really dig Jesus philosophy on life after a life of insane amounts of violence. I've done a 180 because of his teachings.

I can relate to your story, as I have friends with similar conversion and re-conversion stories. THANK YOU for sharing it.
Right now, I am sitting on a bench on the third floor of the Holocaust Museum in Washington. The museum and its highly-comprehensive documentation is humbling, sobering and unimaginably sad. All of it is horrific. As relates to your post, for me, it begs the question .... with millions of Jews certainly praying for divine help and intercession, why weren't their prayers immediately answered to end the torture, terror and death ?? Man's inhumanity to Man is absolutely mind-boggling and unbelievably sad.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I can relate to your story, as I have friends with similar conversion and re-conversion stories. THANK YOU for sharing it.
Right now, I am sitting on a bench on the third floor of the Holocaust Museum in Washington. The museum and its highly-comprehensive documentation is humbling, sobering and unimaginably sad. All of it is horrific. As relates to your post, for me, it begs the question .... with millions of Jews certainly praying for divine help and intercession, why weren't their prayers immediately answered to end the torture, terror and death ?? Man's inhumanity to Man is absolutely mind-boggling and unbelievably sad.

It’s an interesting question, asked many times in this thread and innumerable times over history. God as a tool for our needs. Conceivably, one could live for ever, just so long as they played their prayer card. Not nearly as relevant an issue if you believe this life is not all there is. Then, death is a moment and not an end.

I recommend you read The Hiding Place. In the context of a fallen dark world where evil often has its day, faith persists and people are saved, even if they die. God lovingly moves in those moments, even if not as a wish granter, but as Father and friend.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I am sorry that you do not understand the massive difference in those two statements.

Perhaps one of your fellow atheist friends will enlighten you.

I am sorry that you do not understand how phrasing can be interchangeable. I’m fairly certain that at some point in your life you’ve said both “I believe in god” and also “god exists”. I think you are nit-picking here.

 

[megablue]

It’s an interesting question, asked many times in this thread and innumerable times over history. God as a tool for our needs. Conceivably, one could live for ever, just so long as they played their prayer card. Not nearly as relevant an issue if you believe this life is not all there is. Then, death is a moment and not an end.

I recommend you read The Hiding Place. In the context of a fallen dark world where evil often has its day, faith persists and people are saved, even if they die. God lovingly moves in those moments, even if not as a wish granter, but as Father and friend.

The book has many good reviews and there is also a movie that received good reviews by the viewing audience. I will look for it.

 

[SDC888]

This is a discussion forum. I like to discuss things. And this thread is about a question, “is there a god?”. That’s an invitation to debate, right? If there was a thread titled “Is pro rasslin’ real or fake?”, you might feel compelled to offer your answer, yes?

I personally wouldn't since I have no interest in debate and only rarely am willing to actually engage it. But you are sidestepping the point.

And I don't necessarily even think you "hate" God. My opinion is that generally modern man doesn't see God because life is too easy. Where before we all had to struggle against nature for survival and certain challenges we take for granted today were insurmountable, we now have all our needs met and endless distraction to keep us from genuine, serious contemplation. This affords us the illusion that He is not real, that He is not there. Nothing presented here is actually an argument against God, just regurgitated atheist tropes none of you have actually bothered to really think through. That there are other invented "gods" is what I would expect in a reality where there is one true God, and explaining the Scientific Method and the prowess of Science says nothing about answering the question. That we understand how something works says nothing about the why, and ultimately you all are on the hook for the decidedly less reasonable position that from nothing came everything.

No, nothing begats nothing.

 

[megablue]

I personally wouldn't since I have no interest in debate and only rarely am willing to actually engage it. But you are sidestepping the point.

And I don't necessarily even think you "hate" God. My opinion is that generally modern man doesn't see God because life is too easy. Where before we all had to struggle against nature for survival and certain challenges we take for granted today were insurmountable, we now have all our needs met and endless distraction to keep us from genuine, serious contemplation. This affords us the illusion that He is not real, that He is not there. Nothing presented here is actually an argument against God, just regurgitated atheist tropes none of you have actually bothered to really think through. That there are other invented "gods" is what I would expect in a reality where there is one true God, and explaining the Scientific Method and the prowess of Science says nothing about answering the question. That we understand how something works says nothing about the why, and ultimately you all are on the hook for the decidedly less reasonable position that from nothing came everything.

No, nothing begats nothing.

You make good points. I have these thoughts:

1) I think this thread is evidence by many of serious contemplation.
2) Does 2+2 really and always equal 4, without question, and if so, why ??
3) If there is a God, to my view, that says nothing about why he exists or how he came into being.

 

[SDC888]

I would qualify it as unserious: strawman arguments, derision, flippant questions, etc. are characteristic of unserious contemplation.

Necessarily so: if it doesn't, then you are outside the realm of logic and therefore have no reason to reason, no justification whatsoever to have any confidence whatsoever in whatever it is that "you" have concluded. You can argue that you can't logically justify logic itself without using logic, but that's not useful. Tha'ts just a method for you (general) to yet again sidestep what is actually being discussed.

If there is "a" God unnecessarily biases the question. The question really is: is there God? God, definitionally, would be outside of the universe, infinite and omnipotent, and not require a cause or a reason. He would be outside of time, i.e. cause and effect, and wholly sufficient unto Himself, definitionally. Anything else, and we are not talking about the same "thing." What this does not say,however, is that he necessarily is Personal. You can only understand that by entering into personal relationship with him, which there is only one way to do that.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It is difficult to contemplate God being distinct from His creation, outside of time, matter, and space. We have science and want science to define everything, including God. Not happening.

I was thinking this morning about the Gospels and how they were written so close to Jesus’s life, remarkably so by historical standards. In those Gospels, Jesus mourns the loss of the chosen people and how they reject Him and do not recognize the kingdom of God in their presence (as a people, rather than some individuals). Since His resurrection, Christianity has exploded and Jesus remains the most influential person in history. And, yet, Judaism, with few excepted Messianic Jews, still rejects Jesus as Messiah. Jesus was right, 2000 years ago. That is evidence of the Gospel’s truth.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I personally wouldn't since I have no interest in debate and only rarely am willing to actually engage it. But you are sidestepping the point.

And I don't necessarily even think you "hate" God. My opinion is that generally modern man doesn't see God because life is too easy. Where before we all had to struggle against nature for survival and certain challenges we take for granted today were insurmountable, we now have all our needs met and endless distraction to keep us from genuine, serious contemplation. This affords us the illusion that He is not real, that He is not there. Nothing presented here is actually an argument against God, just regurgitated atheist tropes none of you have actually bothered to really think through. That there are other invented "gods" is what I would expect in a reality where there is one true God, and explaining the Scientific Method and the prowess of Science says nothing about answering the question. That we understand how something works says nothing about the why, and ultimately you all are on the hook for the decidedly less reasonable position that from nothing came everything.

No, nothing begats nothing.

I would say that modern man doesn’t need god because we have way more answers now. It’s not because life got too easy.

Back when we had lots of questions, and precious few answers, “god” filled in the gaps. What causes thunder? An angry god. Why are we having a drought? God. Why did my neighbor’s kid get covered in spots and then die? God.

As science and understanding of nature continues to expand, religion contracts. That’s why modern man doesn’t need any gods or goddesses.

 

[cole854]

I would say that modern man doesn’t need god because we have way more answers now.

Good grief. Have you been paying attention to the world of late? You're really in need of help.

 

[SDC888]

I would say that modern man doesn’t need god because we have way more answers now. It’s not because life got too easy.

Back when we had lots of questions, and precious few answers, “god” filled in the gaps. What causes thunder? An angry god. Why are we having a drought? God. Why did my neighbor’s kid get covered in spots and then die? God.

As science and understanding of nature continues to expand, religion contracts. That’s why modern man doesn’t need any gods or goddesses.

Yes, I knew taht was "your" perspective, and that's indicative of what I intimated in another post.

We aren't talking about the same thing. Such that we're even having a discussion, we're talking past one another. In my view, there is no contradiction between God and science. God doesn't just explain the bits we don't understand: He equally explains that which we do.

God Explains Everything.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

God Explains Everything.

It’s the explanations that don’t make any sense. That’s what gets me. Like when he supposedly created light on day 1, then supposedly created the sun on day 4. I can’t wrap my head around that one. And being an all-powerful god he had to take day 7 off to rest. Really?

It’s as if these stories were just made up by ancient men that had no clue about how anything worked. Surely an all-powerful, all-knowing creator would give a better explanation on the natural world he supposedly created.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Good grief. Have you been paying attention to the world of late? You're really in need of help.

Everyone worships something. We were made to worship and there is not a person who does not comply. Atheists find their things to worship. They are no exception.

It is amazing how Ohio uses old atheist cliches to make the case for his decisions. As if science has the answers. We don’t know exponentially more than we do.

One loss in his argument is the fact that smarter and more knowledgeable people than Ohio believe in God. They know more about science than he. And, yet, they believe in God. His historical “God of the gaps” ( probably a misuse of that phrase) does not explain why God still exists.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It’s the explanations that don’t make any sense. That’s what gets me. Like when he supposedly created light on day 1, then supposedly created the sun on day 4. I can’t wrap my head around that one. And being an all-powerful god he had to take day 7 off to rest. Really?

It’s as if these stories were just made up by ancient men that had no clue about how anything worked. Surely an all-powerful, all-knowing creator would give a better explanation on the natural world he supposedly created.

You pretend to be learned, but you demonstrate your ignorance about scripture repeatedly. If you wanted to understand, you could. The questions you ask are not complicated.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Amazing story of atheist coming to theist through science. You can fast forward to the faith story, but this guy is really interesting. (NOT a “god of the gaps”)

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It’s the explanations that don’t make any sense. That’s what gets me. Like when he supposedly created light on day 1, then supposedly created the sun on day 4. I can’t wrap my head around that one. And being an all-powerful god he had to take day 7 off to rest. Really?

It’s as if these stories were just made up by ancient men that had no clue about how anything worked. Surely an all-powerful, all-knowing creator would give a better explanation on the natural world he supposedly created.

Light in the universe, by the way, began before the creation of our sun, according to science. Wrap your head around that. LOL

 

[megablue]

Not a case for, or against, the existence of God, but it is very interesting to hear and consider Bart Ehrman's historical position that none of the gospel writers were eyewitnesses. Gospels were based on oral traditions and faith propagation. It appears that position is accepted and held by many New Testament scholars, including some in Christian traditions and disciplines.

Bart D. Ehrman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Majority of Scholars agree: The Gospels were not written by Eyewitnesses

“I don’t know who the Gospel writers were and nor does anyone else.” —NT Wright, New Testament scholar, John Ankerberg Show, 2001 Conservative Christian NT scholar, Richard …

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