Wondering if the platoon system killed this year's recruiting? Recruits probably wan't to play more than half or less of a game.
"Platooning" kill this years recruiting?
- Thread starter Captain Unibrow
- Start date
Umm no I think it's Willis, Hawkins, and Floreal that has elite prospects a little nervous about playing time.
Booker was clearly in the top 7 rotation at UK...that is what Cal runs normally. DJ was clearly in the top 8...which Cal has ran an 8 man type rotation before as well, but DJ did not even play that much. He was leaving regardless after this year. And back to your Booker point...LOL at you thinking if Cal had not platooned he would not have played enough to leave early.
Yes I think it has to be a factor. A potential recruit, seeing that we had already signed 3, likely would have the thought that if he became recruit #4 or 5, then Cal would platoon again.
And if he didn't come to that thought on his own, it would've certainly been fed to him by some rival recruiters.
Just my opinion.
And if he didn't come to that thought on his own, it would've certainly been fed to him by some rival recruiters.
Just my opinion.
The killer is we really didn't platoon the last 27 games of the season. Starting with the UL game Dakari played about 12 minutes a game an Lee anywhere from 2-7 minutes. We really went 7 1/2 players deep. Cal hyped it up so much in an effort to try to help recruiting but it ended up back firing on him. In retrospect, without the hype, the way it really played out was guys were averaging 28 minutes a game. Coaches definitely used it against Cal and scared the heck out of the recruits and parents.
Yea, I don't see how "less minutes" would ever help recruiting, either with the player or the parent.
Major miscalculation on Cal's part if that was his intent, in my opinion.
it played terrible on the recruiting trail. anyone who thinks or says otherwise is kidding themselves. sure there were outliers. guys like brisco and skal...but those guys are rare.
Hindsight being 20/20 the word platoon should have never come out of Cal's mouth. He would probably agree
No kid wants to play 15 mins, they want 30+. The platoon was a gimmick that Cal had fun with, but meanwhile, Duke has the #1 class as of today. So who had the last laugh? I just hope we get Murray, and reclaim the top spot.
I actually think you guys are overreacting a bit. Clearly platooning WORKED; you have like seven guys going to the league! Okay, it might not be for EVERYONE, but the majority of guys should see that the minutes they would get would be enough to get them to the league.
It may have maybe worked TOO well, because so many guys left? But... Eh. Everyone has a down year in recruiting. Cal was certainly overdue. You guys will be fine, and so will cal.
It may have maybe worked TOO well, because so many guys left? But... Eh. Everyone has a down year in recruiting. Cal was certainly overdue. You guys will be fine, and so will cal.
I think it hurt recruiting a little.
But if we get Murray and/or Brown then did it really?
Cal said we would add 2 or 3 guys. Add Murray and/or Brown to go with Mulder and Cal is true to his word. We have the top recruiting class again, we filled our needs, and have six or seven 5-star guys to get most of the minutes like Cal said he wanted to do and all this worrying over recruiting is all for naught.
I am going to take the wait and see approach. I am going to wait to see how this recruiting period ends up before I make any judgement.
But if we get Murray and/or Brown then did it really?
Cal said we would add 2 or 3 guys. Add Murray and/or Brown to go with Mulder and Cal is true to his word. We have the top recruiting class again, we filled our needs, and have six or seven 5-star guys to get most of the minutes like Cal said he wanted to do and all this worrying over recruiting is all for naught.
I am going to take the wait and see approach. I am going to wait to see how this recruiting period ends up before I make any judgement.
Top two, or three, recruiting class. Is there anyone here who can give a reasonably good explanation as to how recruiting has been KILLED! If anything is dead it is likely to be fan logic.
Listen, before anyone starts bemoaning platooning... What was the alternative?
Sit a bunch of freshmen who are talented enough to play in the league and came to UK with the idea of being OAD? That certainly wouldn't have helped! Or sit upperclassmen to make way for them, creating anger and frustration at being "recruited over?" Nope, not good either.
If anything, what may have hurt a little was having a group of guys expected to be OAD who weren't, thus creating a big logjam of talent. But platooning that talent was the best way to handle it.
Sit a bunch of freshmen who are talented enough to play in the league and came to UK with the idea of being OAD? That certainly wouldn't have helped! Or sit upperclassmen to make way for them, creating anger and frustration at being "recruited over?" Nope, not good either.
If anything, what may have hurt a little was having a group of guys expected to be OAD who weren't, thus creating a big logjam of talent. But platooning that talent was the best way to handle it.
^^^THIS^^^
Before Cal showed up we would have KILLED to have a class like this. We have two players ranked #1 at their position.
I think 3rex hit it on the head. I'm sure coaches used it against us on the recruiting trail and it seems KU has a special reputation going for using that sort of recruiting tactic. We had fun, and a good deal of success with the platoon this season, but I do think it had some bearing on the recruiting trail. I can't see how other coaches wouldn't use it against us when meeting with the big time recruits and talking playing time.
No...please stop with the platooning...i've said this 100 times, we only platooned half the season and he was forced to do that so guys could get minutes. He will NEVER platoon again, mark it down. He will have the traditional 7 man roster from here on out.
Thought I'd try to contribute - below is your season long minute per game breakdown. Not bad at all, esp when one incorporates Poythress' 20 mpg into the others. Probably could be used as a negative recruiting tool, but wouldn't be an effective negative recruiting tool if the numbers were shown/explained.
Cheers
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harrison, Aaron..... 25.8
Towns, Karl-Anthony. 21.1
Booker, Devin....... 21.5
Harrison, Andrew.... 25.5
Cauley-Stein, Willie 25.9
Lyles, Trey......... 23.0
Johnson, Dakari..... 16.3
Ulis, Tyler......... 23.8
Poythress, Alex.....20.3
Cheers
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harrison, Aaron..... 25.8
Towns, Karl-Anthony. 21.1
Booker, Devin....... 21.5
Harrison, Andrew.... 25.5
Cauley-Stein, Willie 25.9
Lyles, Trey......... 23.0
Johnson, Dakari..... 16.3
Ulis, Tyler......... 23.8
Poythress, Alex.....20.3
It is the perception of platooning! Irregardless of how it worked or for how long we used it, it was still a factor in recruiting and having the loaded roster cut down on minutes for everyone whether platoons were used or not. The issue is that other coaches are using it against us and facts aren't important...go to UK and you will share minutes with so & so, look at the limited minutes he played last year, come here and you'll get your 30-35 minutes a game but not at Kentucky, etc.
Guaranteed other coaches are using platoon stories and garnishing it with personalized fabrications to enhance their own interests.
How is that not a negative recruiting tool? Kids want to play and most, not all, want the attention and shots! Don't you think Self is telling Diago, "Towns and Lyles only got 20 mintues a game, you go there and you share minutes with Poytress, Lee and Labieserre." Sure Cal is trying to offset this argument but then 3 other coaches bring it up too so who does a kid and his parents believe?
But Cal can point to every other year he's coached and show all the minutes his stars get. The only perception is the one you all are creating in your heads.
How about he points to 4 guys going lottery this year...how about that perception?
I think it has more to do with there being so many NBA players on the roster and it wasn't certain who would leave. As such, recruits were a bit scared off because UK's 2015-16 needs have been so unclear until the past few weeks. Many kids want to end the recruiting process early and also want significant minutes, which are only recently available at UK for next year.
I don't think anyone is saying that we shouldn't have platooned. Cal didn't have choice as loaded as the roster was and everyone on here is starting to figure it out that it may have slightly impacted recruiting but Cal knew that it would have an affect probably a year ago imo but....
1. He had to do it.
2. 40-0 was worth the risk of having an "off" recruiting year.
1. He had to do it.
2. 40-0 was worth the risk of having an "off" recruiting year.
Thought I'd compare it to the team I know best. My Hoosiers only had four guys get over 20 mpg.
Player
Yogi Ferrell 34.9
James Blackmon Jr. 30.0
Troy Williams 27.6
Robert Johnson 27.0
Crean is known to use the bench more than most, and it shows with Troy Williams at only 27.6 mpg. However, if most teams average two players at 30.0 mpg + it could be sold negatively I guess, but not really a huge difference from UK for mpg.
Exactly right. Doesn't matter that we may not have used the platoon system all season, other coaches will just pound the platoon system into recruit's heads and convince them otherwise
Any kid should want to play here but You'd think especially after the story came out about Lisa Ann talking with Booker that every kid would be fighting each other to come here.
Circumstances dictated platooning and it worked well but I do think it had some effect on recruiting along with the great year we had that would put pressure on next years recruits. I suspect and hope this will be a temporary problem for UK and Cal. Sure doesn't change my enthusiasm one bit for next year and future years.
O/P, I think make a great observation, I, also, think that Kids are do not want to chance be put in that same position. I also think that you have to start wondering how UK can always have a #1 recruiting class year after year and not win the Championship. Give opposing schools a lot of recruiting ammo. "It's not the ranking of the recruiting class it's now you finish the season that is remembered."
Tenuous logic, if we didn't play the kids then the negative recruiting would be that if you go to Kentucky you'll very possibly end up buried on the bench to wait your turn and be stuck trying to make your way onto the court losing millions in the process.
There is always going to be a downside angle...ALWAYS.
Yes, in a way, because it kept some of our guys from seeing significant playing time. Despite our success, it isn't as flashy or glamorous to high school players to have to watch 9 or 10 talented guys play 15 minutes a game. I thoroughly believe that after next season everything will go back to normal.
Platooning put 7 players in the draft. Would have put 8 but for an unfortunate injury. And that hurt recruiting? I don't think so at all.
I think the issue this year is the number that declared for the draft. Having 7 or 8 attempt to make the jump to the pros is a VERY unusual event. So in January/February you have recruits thinking we could potentially return some combination of Booker, Lyles, Johnson, Ulis, Twins, Johnson, Poythress, Lee and, heck, even Willie as he tends to be a bit of a free spirit. A 17 - 18 year old has to wonder where do they fit into a group like that. Then you toss in the commits we have that were rated the top class already and the pattern gets really tight. Any smart kid that has skills and ability to market is going to consider their options.
Fast forward to April and the crowd gets off the bus. Now there are seats but everyone pretty much has a seat elsewhere. Now the smart kid is thinking, I got a spot I like. Cats got a spot but there's still a crowd over there in Ulis, Lee, Poythress and the new guys. Do I want to change seats? (Kid, my advice? We just sent 7 to the pros. Take your best shot.)
I can see that making recruiting a dicey matter even for Cal. Yeah, sure, some years it works out, but that doesn't mean it will work in our favor every year. Bottom line, the worst spin I can put on this is we're victims of our own success. With the guys I see coming back, if that's as bad as it gets, I'm in, because I see us putting a damn fine team back on the floor.
I think the issue this year is the number that declared for the draft. Having 7 or 8 attempt to make the jump to the pros is a VERY unusual event. So in January/February you have recruits thinking we could potentially return some combination of Booker, Lyles, Johnson, Ulis, Twins, Johnson, Poythress, Lee and, heck, even Willie as he tends to be a bit of a free spirit. A 17 - 18 year old has to wonder where do they fit into a group like that. Then you toss in the commits we have that were rated the top class already and the pattern gets really tight. Any smart kid that has skills and ability to market is going to consider their options.
Fast forward to April and the crowd gets off the bus. Now there are seats but everyone pretty much has a seat elsewhere. Now the smart kid is thinking, I got a spot I like. Cats got a spot but there's still a crowd over there in Ulis, Lee, Poythress and the new guys. Do I want to change seats? (Kid, my advice? We just sent 7 to the pros. Take your best shot.)
I can see that making recruiting a dicey matter even for Cal. Yeah, sure, some years it works out, but that doesn't mean it will work in our favor every year. Bottom line, the worst spin I can put on this is we're victims of our own success. With the guys I see coming back, if that's as bad as it gets, I'm in, because I see us putting a damn fine team back on the floor.
Similar threads
