Pitino no longer going to recruit high school players.

[G-PIP]

Do you think this is wise? I get not putting most of your efforts into recruiting OAD high schoolers. It’s often a bad value play. But to not recruit high schoolers at all? Can you effectively build your base with just transfers? I have major doubts about that. First, to have any continuity – which the data says is key to chasing titles – you would have to get a lot of guys who have at least two years of eligibility left. These types don’t seem to be as prevalent, but maybe it’s just that we don’t hear them being touted as much.

I understand Pitino’s position that he can’t replace his best seniors with freshmen and expect to win at a high level in today’s game, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t build your base with your own players coming from high school.

 

[MakinMusic]

Not a bad idea. Men versus boys.

 

[Smashcat]

Might be best for him anyway. SJU has had a hard time grabbing elite greater NY hs players.

 

[NociHTTP]

If you're going to get paid at the collegiate level, then you better have some history.

 

[Imafan4evr_]

He probably doesn’t have a guaranteed 4-5 years left in the game (or at least at SJU) to develop guys from high school. The higher profile HS recruits that could make immediate impacts are fetching stupid amounts of money. He can pay less for more tested and far more physically developed players in the portal each off season and give himself a better chance to win sooner.

 

[TFCats11]

Smart man! High Schooler’s NIL demands are comical, considering the level of competition they base it on.

 

[G-PIP]

He probably doesn’t have a guaranteed 4-5 years left in the game (or at least at SJU) to develop guys from high school. The higher profile HS recruits that could make immediate impacts are fetching stupid amounts of money. He can pay less for more tested and far more physically developed players in the portal each off season and give himself a better chance to win sooner.

The fact that Pitino may not be building with an eye to the future due to his age is a good point I hadn't really thought about.

 

[NociHTTP]

The fact that Pitino may not be building with an eye to the future due to his age is a good point I hadn't really thought about.

That's not why he's doing this.

 

[JonathanW]

Do you think this is wise? I get not putting most of your efforts into recruiting OAD high schoolers. It’s often a bad value play. But to not recruit high schoolers at all? Can you effectively build your base with just transfers? I have major doubts about that. First, to have any continuity – which the data says is key to chasing titles – you would have to get a lot of guys who have at least two years of eligibility left. These types don’t seem to be as prevalent, but maybe it’s just that we don’t hear them being touted as much.

I understand Pitino’s position that he can’t replace his best seniors with freshmen and expect to win at a high level in today’s game, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t build your base with your own players coming from high school.

You say data says continuity is key to winning. I don’t think we have enough data yet to say that. The portal has only been open what 3 years. You can’t look at years prior to that, because every team now has portal guys, most contenders are at least 50% portal guys. I think all we know is that you need experience, but that experience can come at other places.
Also, you can still have some continuity by getting transfers with more than 2 year of eligibility.
So I don’t think it’s a bad idea.

 

[yabbadabbadoo]

With the way things currently are, I sort of agree with him. Why get unproven high schoolers when you can get proven guys?

 

[Ugoff]

I'm not sure that building a base is even a viable strategy anymore. We have unrestricted free agency now. The vast majority of these players will bolt to the highest bidder. CBB is a total shitshow. Seems like it would be hard to maintain educational stability with the constant transferring we're seeing. (Yes, that was sarcasm)

 

[BGCATFAN2012]

Pitino should join the UK staff with Mark and lead Kentucky back to the rightful spot. Winning a title with coach Pope is better then finishing his career at St Johns and not winning anything. Sounds like a horrible idea but for the man to still be coaching might as well come home and win one with a former player.

 

[NociHTTP]

Considering the health of the game, from a fan perspective, would many stop following the sport if the focus became centered on the portal and players coming in from high school had to ride the bench or find some other avenue to play basketball?

 

[Lempface]

I'm not sure that building a base is even a viable strategy anymore. We have unrestricted free agency now. The vast majority of these players will bolt to the highest bidder. CBB is a total shitshow. Seems like it would be hard to maintain educational stability with the constant transferring we're seeing. (Yes, that was sarcasm)

They need to institute some type of contract system to help w/ this. I have no problem with the players being able to make money, and freely go where they want to play. But we need to balance it.

 

[Ugoff]

They need to institute some type of contract system to help w/ this. I have no problem with the players being able to make money, and freely go where they want to play. But we need to balance it.

True, but IMO transfers need some type of limits and restrictions. Every sports league has rules around it to maintain some order. What we have now is the wild wild west.

 

[Lempface]

True, but IMO transfers need some type of limits and restrictions. Every sports league has rules around it to maintain some order. What we have now is the wild wild west.

That's what the contract would do. You're free to go anywhere you want, but, you're gonna sign a 2-4 year deal. If you want a 1 year free-agent type deal, they need to cap that for the good of the game. The incentive needs to be on player retention, or, and I've said this many times in other threads, they are going to eat their own faces off. Then there will be no big money contracts cuz no one will want to watch.

 

[TM2013]

I agree with him. Gotta mix in some freshman here and there like Perry, Noah, JJ, Malachi etc but definitely not relying on them as key contributors.

 

[JonathanW]

They need to institute some type of contract system to help w/ this. I have no problem with the players being able to make money, and freely go where they want to play. But we need to balance it.

I think the solution is you get 1 “free” transfer.
Sit out 1/2 season on 2nd transfer.
Sit out full season on 3rd transfer.

 

[Lempface]

I think the solution is you get 1 “free” transfer.
Sit out 1/2 season on 2nd transfer.
Sit out full season on 3rd transfer.

That can't work because of the rulings/impending rulings on limiting transfers which is why the NCAA changed the rule to begin with. It's gotta be a contractual thing that the players enter into IMO.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

At his age and stage, this is the smart move for him.

 

[G-PIP]

You say data says continuity is key to winning. I don’t think we have enough data yet to say that. The portal has only been open what 3 years. You can’t look at years prior to that, because every team now has portal guys, most contenders are at least 50% portal guys. I think all we know is that you need experience, but that experience can come at other places.
Also, you can still have some continuity by getting transfers with more than 2 year of eligibility.
So I don’t think it’s a bad idea.

Roster continuity is a shared factor among just about every 1 seed over the past several years. With very few exceptions, a look at the rosters of the 28 teams that earned a 1 seed over the previous seven tournaments shows a clear trend. The biggest group of contributors on those rosters are typically populated by a majority of players who are A) upperclassmen, and B) players who have started their college careers with that team and/or been in the program for multiple seasons. Those trends are even more striking when you look at the 1 seeds that have ultimately won NCAA titles, which has been the case in seven of the past nine tournaments – with the only exception since 2017 being UConn in 2023. Those teams were:

• North Carolina (2017): Six of the top nine players were upperclassmen, and eight of the top nine had been in the program the previous season. The only exception was a freshman.
• Villanova (2018): Five of the top six players had been with the team the previous season, and four of those players were upperclassmen.
• Virginia (2019): This team primarily played six guys in the NCAA title game. Four were in their third season of college ball (all with Virginia), one was a freshman, and the other was a first-year transfer.
• Baylor (2021): This team, which won the title in the COVID bubble, was held up as a crowning achievement of working the transfer market, but all eight of the Bears’ top players had been on Baylor’s campus the previous season, most started their college careers with the school, and six of the eight were upperclassmen. None were freshmen. These were the only eight who played in the NCAA title game before coach Scott Drew emptied his bench at the end.
• Kansas (2022): The top four players on this team — and six of the top seven — had all been on KU’s campus for at least three years by the end of the 2021-22 season.
• UConn (2023): The top six players on that squad - one was a first-year freshman, one was a first-year transfer, but the other four had been with the Huskies for their entire college careers.
• UConn (2024): The top seven players on that team – one was a new portal transfer and one was a freshman. The rest were multi-year players for UConn.

 

[TOMCATS1990]

If I was a HC of a major program I’d put my NIL money at least 80 to 90 % of it on guys who have played and played well in College over just about any HIgh Schooler minus 17 year old PUKe 🤮 BOY wonder

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Look at it this way, this saves a ton of time not even worrying about incoming freshman and going to visit these guys.. instead, just pull from the 1500 soon to be transfer portal guys.

Kind of brilliant actually.

 

[G-PIP]

That's not why he's doing this.

I just allowed for that as a possibility. I'm not privy to any reason beyond what he apparently said, which the article quoted as: “Well, we’re not recruiting any high school basketball players. . . . Because we’re losing Devon [Smith], Kadari [Richmond], and Aaron [Scott]. We can’t replace them with high school kids.” Maybe you have read something else, or have a different take on it than Imafan4evr.

 

[deep3]

Do you think this is wise? I get not putting most of your efforts into recruiting OAD high schoolers. It’s often a bad value play. But to not recruit high schoolers at all? Can you effectively build your base with just transfers? I have major doubts about that. First, to have any continuity – which the data says is key to chasing titles – you would have to get a lot of guys who have at least two years of eligibility left. These types don’t seem to be as prevalent, but maybe it’s just that we don’t hear them being touted as much.

I understand Pitino’s position that he can’t replace his best seniors with freshmen and expect to win at a high level in today’s game, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t build your base with your own players coming from high school.

Imo he is spot on with this strategy go get soph/jr that has proven results

 

[BlueSince92]

I think it’s awesome. Hopefully him saying that will have an influence. Calipari kind of led college basketball to its darkest and most boring days with the OAD stuff. Rick is trying hard to leave a lasting imprint on the sport and if steering the focus back towards experience in most cases is part of that, more power to him.

 

[ImTheVillageIdiot]

Considering the health of the game, from a fan perspective, would many stop following the sport if the focus became centered on the portal and players coming in from high school had to ride the bench or find some other avenue to play basketball?

Not for me. College basketball is too big a deal to me for me to give it up, regardless of how talent is assembled. I don’t care who gets the focus or attention —- my focus and attention will be on the University of Kentucky Wildcats basketball and it’s path toward more wins and more titles.

 

[NociHTTP]

I just allowed for that as a possibility. I'm not privy to any reason beyond what he apparently said, which the article quoted as: “Well, we’re not recruiting any high school basketball players. . . . Because we’re losing Devon [Smith], Kadari [Richmond], and Aaron [Scott]. We can’t replace them with high school kids.” Maybe you have read something else, or have a different take on it than Imafan4evr.

"fact" and "may" are mutually exclusive. I don't know who Imafan4evr is, I was responding to you. None of us here are privy to any of this stuff, it's all just fans speculating. Pitino's age most definitely has nothing to do with not recruiting high school players. It's not even a possibility. He has more respect for the game than to just give up aspects of coaching in order to keep coaching. He's doing this because money should be going to guys that you KNOW are hungry to earn their pay, and have experience dealing with adversity (what he talked about the other day), and that you can feel pretty confident don't have their foot out the door waiting on draft night. Pitino's a genius.

 

[stringmusiccat]

Don't know what kind of recruiting budget he has at St Johns but I assume that money can go to nil

 

[jwphelps]

Do you think this is wise? I get not putting most of your efforts into recruiting OAD high schoolers. It’s often a bad value play. But to not recruit high schoolers at all? Can you effectively build your base with just transfers? I have major doubts about that. First, to have any continuity – which the data says is key to chasing titles – you would have to get a lot of guys who have at least two years of eligibility left. These types don’t seem to be as prevalent, but maybe it’s just that we don’t hear them being touted as much.

I understand Pitino’s position that he can’t replace his best seniors with freshmen and expect to win at a high level in today’s game, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t build your base with your own players coming from high school.

I guess it will depend on how well he can recruit in the portal to fill his roster.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I also like that Coaches and Fans are starting to push back on the NIL/Transfer stuff, but in a different way. So if players can transfer at will, and the pool has over a thousand of players, then why as a coach would I bother with freshman?

It might be kind of knocking the freshman down a peg (imagine is all P5 coaches took this approach), but the coaches and the programs are going to do whats best for THEIR team.. nothing says Rick Pitino has to roll the dice on some 18-year old anymore. I say good. Glad to see the programs taking SOME power back.

 

[G-PIP]

"fact" and "may" are mutually exclusive. I don't know who Imafan4evr is, I was responding to you. None of us here are privy to any of this stuff, it's all just fans speculating. Pitino's age most definitely has nothing to do with not recruiting high school players. It's not even a possibility. He has more respect for the game than to just give up aspects of coaching in order to keep coaching. He's doing this because money should be going to guys that you KNOW are hungry to earn their pay, and have experience dealing with adversity (what he talked about the other day), and that you can feel pretty confident don't have their foot out the door waiting on draft night. Pitino's a genius.

I’m not really completely following you, but “Imafan4evr” was the poster I responded to who theorized that Pitino might think he doesn’t have time to develop high school players. I said maybe that’s possible. Then you said “that’s not why he’s doing this.” So, I tried to explain that all I know about it is what I read. You’re the one indicating that you know “why he’s doing this.” So, if you’re trying to defend Pitino from me, I didn’t attack him to start with. Otherwise, whatever you want to believe about it is fine by me.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Did he actually say that?

I thought he was just referring to three St John's players to which he said those guys could not be replaced by HS players. I doubt he's going to stop recruiting HS all together.

 

[cal=8]

Do you think this is wise? I get not putting most of your efforts into recruiting OAD high schoolers. It’s often a bad value play. But to not recruit high schoolers at all? Can you effectively build your base with just transfers? I have major doubts about that. First, to have any continuity – which the data says is key to chasing titles – you would have to get a lot of guys who have at least two years of eligibility left. These types don’t seem to be as prevalent, but maybe it’s just that we don’t hear them being touted as much.

I understand Pitino’s position that he can’t replace his best seniors with freshmen and expect to win at a high level in today’s game, but that doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t build your base with your own players coming from high school.

Because he can't get top High School talent. Makes sense for St Johns.

 

[ukfan1622]

I think it makes sense for him at his age and at his current school. Let's face it; none of the freshmen that will make a difference as freshmen are going to go to St. John's.

 

[know1]

This is the way.

 

[kywildcat41035]

Smart man! High Schooler’s NIL demands are comical, considering the level of competition they base it on.

Yep and if anyone knows how to put a team together and develop a team look no further than Pitino. What’s this make 4 schools he’s done this at? The man is a COACH!

 

[JonathanW]

That can't work because of the rulings/impending rulings on limiting transfers which is why the NCAA changed the rule to begin with. It's gotta be a contractual thing that the players enter into IMO.

I may be wrong, but I think the rulings were addressing the ambiguity of their rules, which included lots of exceptions.

 

[Creed Bratton]

With the way things currently are, I sort of agree with him. Why get unproven high schoolers when you can get proven guys?

I totally agree with you. The generational talent 18 year old Cooper Flagg is putting up big numbers in a weak conference but in big games he has choked.

 

[doc4UK]

Roster continuity is a shared factor among just about every 1 seed over the past several years. With very few exceptions, a look at the rosters of the 28 teams that earned a 1 seed over the previous seven tournaments shows a clear trend. The biggest group of contributors on those rosters are typically populated by a majority of players who are A) upperclassmen, and B) players who have started their college careers with that team and/or been in the program for multiple seasons. Those trends are even more striking when you look at the 1 seeds that have ultimately won NCAA titles, which has been the case in seven of the past nine tournaments – with the only exception since 2017 being UConn in 2023. Those teams were:

• North Carolina (2017): Six of the top nine players were upperclassmen, and eight of the top nine had been in the program the previous season. The only exception was a freshman.
• Villanova (2018): Five of the top six players had been with the team the previous season, and four of those players were upperclassmen.
• Virginia (2019): This team primarily played six guys in the NCAA title game. Four were in their third season of college ball (all with Virginia), one was a freshman, and the other was a first-year transfer.
• Baylor (2021): This team, which won the title in the COVID bubble, was held up as a crowning achievement of working the transfer market, but all eight of the Bears’ top players had been on Baylor’s campus the previous season, most started their college careers with the school, and six of the eight were upperclassmen. None were freshmen. These were the only eight who played in the NCAA title game before coach Scott Drew emptied his bench at the end.
• Kansas (2022): The top four players on this team — and six of the top seven — had all been on KU’s campus for at least three years by the end of the 2021-22 season.
• UConn (2023): The top six players on that squad - one was a first-year freshman, one was a first-year transfer, but the other four had been with the Huskies for their entire college careers.
• UConn (2024): The top seven players on that team – one was a new portal transfer and one was a freshman. The rest were multi-year players for UConn.

That is objective proof for what Pitino wants to do. I think Pope should take note and the only Freshman he takes are Kentucky kids who want to play for several years and are willing to be back ups for a while. Pope is now established enough of a track record to recruit shooters and versatile big men. His system would be very attractive to the very top players in the portal. If we do not get Ament it is not the end of the world. Ride with the three Freshmen we have, the five or six returning players (Oweh, Noah, Perry, ?Krissa, Garrison, and Chandler) and add another five or six from the portal