ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Falcons and Mercedes Stadium eating millions in defaulted license fees

T

Tskware

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 27, 2003
23,639
19,097
113
https://www.ajc.com/sports/football...ns-struggle-with-psls/dlUNjpHXptU5edyPJGKNLM/

One more sign of the sports bubble I have long thought is fast approaching. Falcons fans have defaulted on $32M worth of seat licenses. And to no one's surprise, actual attendance is way less than tickets distributed, both for football and the pro soccer team. Falcon fans report there is zero market for resale of PSL for season tickets.

Once again, I salute UK for cutting ticket prices, at least in the upper deck, for 2020 football season. The law of economics is speaking. One of these days, a whole lot of these $500M facilities are going to look like the biggest white elephant ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatCrazyChuk, TNTUK, YaketySax and 2 others
The-Hack said:
I salute UK for reducing seating capacity.

If you think 8K empties look bad, imagine 16K empties.
Click to expand...

And UK spokesman said as much, said it is to everyone's benefit, e.g., players, program, UKAA, and fans, to have a full stadium, even if some pay a lot less than others for their seat. More excitement, louder better atmosphere, builds long term fan bases, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Girthang and Ky grandpa
So am I understanding this correctly? They were charging from $500 to $45,000 just for the right to buy season tickets, and not the tickets themselves? Is that what the PSL is?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TeoJ and AlbanyWildCat
DCFseattle said:
So am I understanding this correctly? They were charging from $500 to $45,000 just for the right to buy season tickets, and not the tickets themselves? Is that what the PSL is?
Click to expand...
Yep.

My wife and I are big football fans, and when we lived in Baltimore from 1998-2001 we bought season tickets to the Ravens. We had to pay a $750 per seat PSL fee before we spent dollar one on actual game tickets. When I had to relocate due to a job change, I was able to sell our PSLs at face value to a co-worker.

Here in Indiana, my uncle and I decided to split a season ticket package with the Colts back in 2004. At that time the Colts didn’t charge a PSL fee. When they moved to Lucas Oil Stadium in 2008 they grandfathered all current season ticket holders at the RCA Dome from having to pay a PSL, but all new incoming season ticket purchasers had to cough up the extra cash.

It’s a brazen money grab is what it is. I consider myself lucky. If I ever stop buying Colts season tickets I’ll probably never do so again.
 
Agreed. There is no evidence that UK can support the ticket sales needed for this. Especially at what ticket prices are becoming. And packing larger crowds into smaller venues just to say you have a 100k stadium makes no sense. Better catering to a smaller crowd and making the experience worth attending than trying to meet some arbitrary gate attendance. A full 60k venue that is comfortable is much better than a 100k venue that is unpleasant to be in. Especially when those 100k venues are only filling 60k anyways.
 
Not sure how many times these disastrous financial mistakes will happen before government leaders realize that the investment bank projections are usually overly optimistic. The investment banks are interested in getting the deal done so that the bonds can be sold and fees charged. The investment bank isn't incentivized to make realistic economic projections if such information impairs the likelihood of the deal finalizing. The "Yum! Center" is a great example of how recklessly optimistic projections of an arena's revenue result in a city and state signing up to guarantee bonds that end up being junk, because the arena doesn't come close to meeting revenue projections. The investment bankers are in New York counting their cash while Kentucky taxpayers are on the hook for a Taj Mahal of an arena that's uncomfortably close to financial default.

https://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/goldman_sachs_vanity_fair_ads_david_sirota/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Girthang, ukalum1988, CB3UK and 1 other person
Stuff like that is precisely why attendance is down and precisely why you see younger folks like me and my generation not buying season tickets. Ill pick and choose the games I want. Not going to pay out the ass for no reason...I simply wont go. And Im damn sure not paying K Fund or seat licensing fees. Sure as heck not going to subsidize the garbage games on schedule either. These teams are waking up to a new reality. Nosebleeds for Bengals games are $60. Youre out of your damn mind. $10 beers. $30 parking. $5 water. And they wonder why attendance is dropping off a cliff. I work too damn hard for my money. Maybe the older generation who didnt have as many options was more receptive to these fool practices, but todays fan is more demanding and discerning for their dollar. You want my butt in that seat, Im not going to bend over to put it there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MEMEBLUE, Girthang, Blouman and 3 others
I just want a FF ticket in that monstrosity if of course UK makes it.

It holds 80,000 plus for the FF, so you would think they could squeeze me in.
 
DCFseattle said:
That's just trash. Can you imagine Home Depot (or wherever you shop) charging a cover charge to go in and buy a ladder?

Also, go Colts.
Click to expand...
Arthur M. Blank (born September 27, 1942) is an American businessman and a co-founder of The Home Depot. He currently owns two professional sporting teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons of the National Football League and Atlanta United of Major League Soccer.

You probably sort of already are
 
  • Like
Reactions: TeoJ
robo222 said:
Arthur M. Blank (born September 27, 1942) is an American businessman and a co-founder of The Home Depot. He currently owns two professional sporting teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons of the National Football League and Atlanta United of Major League Soccer.

You probably sort of already are
Click to expand...

No. I mean, ladders cost more than they should... But I don't think that's true.
 
ukalum1988 said:
Yep.

My wife and I are big football fans, and when we lived in Baltimore from 1998-2001 we bought season tickets to the Ravens. We had to pay a $750 per seat PSL fee before we spent dollar one on actual game tickets. When I had to relocate due to a job change, I was able to sell our PSLs at face value to a co-worker.

Here in Indiana, my uncle and I decided to split a season ticket package with the Colts back in 2004. At that time the Colts didn’t charge a PSL fee. When they moved to Lucas Oil Stadium in 2008 they grandfathered all current season ticket holders at the RCA Dome from having to pay a PSL, but all new incoming season ticket purchasers had to cough up the extra cash.

It’s a brazen money grab is what it is. I consider myself lucky. If I ever stop buying Colts season tickets I’ll probably never do so again.
Click to expand...

The money from the PSL’s is almost certainly used to pay the loans used to finance construction of the stadium. Usually that means the state and local taxpayers will be on the hook to make up the difference.

If I were a state or local worker or retiree from state or local government in Georgia, I’d be worried. It’s entirely predictable that their jobs will be cut and their pension funds will be drained to make up the shortfall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ukalum1988 and ok-cats-computer
PushupMan said:
The money from the PSL’s is almost certainly used to pay the loans used to finance construction of the stadium. Usually that means the state and local taxpayers will be on the hook to make up the difference.

If I were a state or local worker or retiree from state or local government in Georgia, I’d be worried. It’s entirely predictable that their jobs will be cut and their pension funds will be drained to make up the shortfall.
Click to expand...

I remember 20 years ago telling friends in Cincy that the two new stadiums were a bad deal for the city. Have they paid for themselves? I will say the new developments on the river near the baseball stadium has improved downtown quite a bit, and doubt they would have happened without GABP.
 
Get ready Pay for View is coming for NFL and NBA games. College football will follow those and NCAAT will follow that. Just a matter of time.
 
KYCAT78 said:
Get ready Pay for View is coming for NFL and NBA games. College football will follow those and NCAAT will follow that. Just a matter of time.
Click to expand...
Maybe. Its more profitable for these teams to roll their games into cable and get millions off subscribers who arent interested in sports at all.

NFL and MLB already have Sunday Ticket and MLB.TV but of course the local teams cant be viewed on there. For exactly the reasons Ive alluded to. You don't want to alienate your local fan base by forcing then to buy that stuff or not being able to watch at all. Eventually youll just lose a generation of fans and then theyre really screwed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Girthang
KYCAT78 said:
Get ready Pay for View is coming for NFL and NBA games. College football will follow those and NCAAT will follow that. Just a matter of time.
Click to expand...

Already prepared. I don't watch either pro league unless I'm eating a meal where it is on. I love sports too much. Officiating and money/media have killed the games. Should have stopped watching 20 years ago when I saw the way they rape communities over arenas and upgrades

When college follows suit, I won't be watching that anymore either. The NCAA officiating is bad enough that I only watch on a delay (keeps me from being as irritated when I can fast forward through a ridiculous 5-10 minute play review and the BS calls aren't LIVE, so I don't get AS mad).

I used to love sports. Politics, tv, and gambling (all 3 about money) have killed them. Only thing I'd pay additional to be able to do these days is watch the practices. Miss the days of open practices in football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Texcat59, 59DAWG, KYCAT78 and 4 others
KYCAT78 said:
Get ready Pay for View is coming for NFL and NBA games. College football will follow those and NCAAT will follow that. Just a matter of time.
Click to expand...

If and when that happens, viewership will drop exponentially to a truly niche market similar to "boxing"...

It's already a little tough supporting exorbitant pricing for NFL games (my market is Denver), and the corrupt NCAA governing body.

Go CATS!
 
  • Like
Reactions: robo222 and Girthang
Here is a potentially stupid question. From what little I watch of the English Premier League (2 or 3 minutes at a time, tops), they seem to have big boisterous crowds. And HDTV is available in every western country. So what does the Premier League charge for tickets, and how do they keep the live gate so high?
 
robo222 said:
Arthur M. Blank (born September 27, 1942) is an American businessman and a co-founder of The Home Depot. He currently owns two professional sporting teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons of the National Football League and Atlanta United of Major League Soccer.

You probably sort of already are
Click to expand...
He just bought a $180,000,000 dollar Yacht too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robo222
Tskware said:
Here is a potentially stupid question. From what little I watch of the English Premier League (2 or 3 minutes at a time, tops), they seem to have big boisterous crowds. And HDTV is available in every western country. So what does the Premier League charge for tickets, and how do they keep the live gate so high?
Click to expand...
Season tickets are relatively cheap at US$ equivalent of $500-750 per team, cheapest seats. But waitlists are impossibly long. Aftermarket tickets are $100-125 most avg games just to get in gate. On the whole, the stadiums are smaller 25k-50k. w just a few larger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tskware and YaketySax
Shavers48 said:
Season tickets are relatively cheap at US$ equivalent of $500-750 per team, cheapest seats. But waitlists are impossibly long. Aftermarket tickets are $100-125 most avg games just to get in gate. On the whole, the stadiums are smaller 25k-50k. w just a few larger.
Click to expand...

I would also add that my European friends talk a lot about how hard it is to watch domestic league games on the TV there. My info is a bit dated, but after NBC Sports bought EPL rights they told me I would see more EPL games in the US than they could see in London.
 
Shavers48 said:
Season tickets are relatively cheap at US$ equivalent of $500-750 per team, cheapest seats.
Click to expand...

At 19 matches at home, that would come out to about $26.25 to 38.90 per match/game, for the cheapest.

Not bad!!

I wonder if there are "playoffs" that cost extra?

[Edit] Just checked. With 7 home games, Kentucky's cheapest corner tickets at 250.00 are right at $36.00 per game . . . . about 50% higher than the price of the cheapest Soccer tickets.]
 
Last edited:
YaketySax said:
I would also add that my European friends talk a lot about how hard it is to watch domestic league games on the TV there. My info is a bit dated, but after NBC Sports bought EPL rights they told me I would see more EPL games in the US than they could see in London.
Click to expand...

If ticket prices are relatively low, and there is little domestic TV coverage, then how do they afford the ridiculous salaries for the star players?
 
Tskware said:
If ticket prices are relatively low, and there is little domestic TV coverage, then how do they afford the ridiculous salaries for the star players?
Click to expand...
don’t know what domestic TV money is like-but would guess TV for all the other markets is massive.
 
DCFseattle said:
That's just trash. Can you imagine Home Depot (or wherever you shop) charging a cover charge to go in and buy a ladder?

Also, go Colts.
Click to expand...
Costco, Sams Club.... you have to buy a membership to shop there.

PSLs somewhat like K-Fund and similar programs except they are one time fees...I’m a member of a country club and to be a member you have to own a share of stock in the club in order pay dues. It’s not really that foreign of a concept.
 
rqarnold said:
Costco, Sams Club.... you have to buy a membership to shop there.

PSLs somewhat like K-Fund and similar programs except they are one time fees...I’m a member of a country club and to be a member you have to own a share of stock in the club in order pay dues. It’s not really that foreign of a concept.
Click to expand...

Me too, but I can't sit on my easy chair watching a 65 inch HDTV and play golf at my local club. I have to get off my ass and go outside and actually go to the course to play. And if it is truly a private club, you literally aren't allowed to play there unless you paid the initiation fee + dues.

With almost any ballgame, you can nearly always find a ticket and all the ones worth watching are on TV. That is why CC initiation is much different than PSLs
 
Tskware said:
If ticket prices are relatively low, and there is little domestic TV coverage, then how do they afford the ridiculous salaries for the star players?
Click to expand...

The domestic TV market is small. They chop up the TV rights for each country in the world. They get $250 million/year from NBC alone. No telling what they sell it for (though I'm guessing less) to Spain, Germany, Italy, Russia, Saudi, Australia, etc.

Also, the biggest clubs sell merchandising rights for every country too and their brands sell better than any other global sports brand/team. The average revenue for a EPL club in 2018 was $315 million per year. If you do just the Big Six it's $600 million revenue: http://financialfootballnews.com/premier-league-2018-finances-revenue/
 
YaketySax said:
The domestic TV market is small. They chop up the TV rights for each country in the world. They get $250 million/year from NBC alone. No telling what they sell it for (though I'm guessing less) to Spain, Germany, Italy, Russia, Saudi, Australia, etc.

Also, the biggest clubs sell merchandising rights for every country too and their brands sell better than any other global sports brand/team. The average revenue for a EPL club in 2018 was $315 million per year. If you do just the Big Six it's $600 million revenue: http://financialfootballnews.com/premier-league-2018-finances-revenue/
Click to expand...


Even with that, it's crazy what the players make. I have a co-worker whose little brother signed with Chelsea about 3-4 years ago for around 1-2 million dollars as an upcoming 18 year old on their developmental team.

Not too bad for an 18 year old.
 
Tskware said:
Here is a potentially stupid question. From what little I watch of the English Premier League (2 or 3 minutes at a time, tops), they seem to have big boisterous crowds. And HDTV is available in every western country. So what does the Premier League charge for tickets, and how do they keep the live gate so high?
Click to expand...
I’d say although we fill up stadiums here out of excitement—they fill the. Up because futbol is a religion there. Culture drives it—and hard
 
Tskware said:
If ticket prices are relatively low, and there is little domestic TV coverage, then how do they afford the ridiculous salaries for the star players?
Click to expand...

I saw a listing of valuations for franchises, world-wide. Manchester United was number one. On vacation in Antigua, about every other Brit below 40 was wearing expensive team “kit.” I wore my UK ish, as a conversation starter.

CatGotMyTongue said:
they fill the. Up because futbol is a religion there. Culture drives it—and hard
Click to expand...

I do not call my fanship of college football a religion. Yet I have likely prayed as hard in a football stadium as I have in any church.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back