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Orlando Antigua Makes Me Nervous

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bballcat4

Junior
Jan 12, 2008
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We'll probably never know how much Asst Coaches do that head coaches never know about.

I never thought for 1 second that Pitino didn't know about the hookers. However, I can see some scenarios where he was in the dark regarding Bowen. (Topic for another thread.) There's irony that he kept his job through Sypher and Syphilis, but loses it over this.

Antigua was with Cal in the early UK years and was connected to Wm Wesley. Cal trusted him a lot and I'm sure Antigua wasn't micromanaged. What concerns me about him was his quick run-in with NCAA when he got his first head coaching gig. I think most of it was related to academics.

I do think Cal has kept a close watch over recruiting since Antigua's departure. But, Kenny Payne, Antigua, Josh Pastner and other assistant coaches know their ticket to a potential good head coaching gig is to be known as the ace recruiter. (I'm certainly not accusing any of the 3, but just listing Cal's assistants who have been lead recruiters.) I can see how an assistant who wants to be known as the ace recruiter, so he can leverage his reputation for a good head coaching gig, does something dumb without the head coach knowing about it.

Antigua makes me nervous only because of his quick run-in with NCAA and currently being at Illinois. Everyone knows that Chicago is the cesspool for recruiting and runners.

The only good thing is that he was gone from UK before the 3 year investigation began.

I think Cal is clean and it's obvious he's backed away from some contaminated players over the last few years. I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that the money people want their claws into the UK pipeline and I'm sure they've tried to go around Cal to make it happen. It only takes one assistant coach making one bad decision to destroy Cal.
 
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bballcat4 said:
It only takes one assistant coach making one bad decision to destroy Cal.
Click to expand...
True. You assume Cal's guys are loyal enough to not get greedy. If one coach did get greedy while here, then it's not on Cal. At some point you have to trust people to do the right thing.
 
I keep coming back to this.

If Cal was/is dirty they would've found it by now. He is under the finest microscope because he doesn't pull punches and he is a constant pain in their backsides.

Cal is great for the game and if he was to go down it would be a huge hit to cbb but they can't control Cal so they want him gone.
 
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TeleTubby said:
I don't think there is a coach in the country who is 100 percent safe from this. Not even K.
Click to expand...

I agree.

This is not the kind of stuff that Sandy Bell or even Cal can control. Sandy Bell makes sure a kid is clean academically before he plays for us. Neither of them can prevent runners from giving $ to families. I appreciate her hard work, but they're two separate issues.
 
here's the thing asst coaches can't get that kinda cash together without the head coach involved it just doesn't happen. the idea of a rouge asst. is just smoke and mirrors.
 
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SmyrnaCatFan said:
Why would you disparage Mr. Antiqua's name when he has not been implicated in this scandal to this point? That kind of speculation is not warranted.
Click to expand...
Don't understand this either! Let's build hypotheticals about other hypotheticals...good grief!
 
SmyrnaCatFan said:
Why would you disparage Mr. Antiqua's name when he has not been implicated in this scandal to this point? That kind of speculation is not warranted.
Click to expand...

Claiming he is guilty without evidence is disparaging his name. Saying he makes me nervous is not. Being involved with academic fraud is his fault, not the person who questions him. He jumped straight into academic fraud during his first head coaching job. I think it's fair to have red flags.

How many people were nervous when Cal arrived at UK, and said so on this board??? He's earned our (my) trust over his tenure here.

Antigua can earn back trust. Many coaches do. Saying he makes me nervous isn't disparaging him.
 
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KySpringCat said:
I have read many times that the NCAA statute of limitations on opening a new investigation is 4 years.
Click to expand...

This is Federal, which is much bigger than NCAA. NCAA will let the Feds do the investigating. They have the manpower and budget. NCAA will just walk in behind them and use their info to dish out punishment.

Even if NCAA can't punish a team because of the SOA, being mentioned in a federal investigation would not be good.

I'll say again, I think Cal is clean. But, head coaches can't control 100% of what assistants do.
 
ZaytovenCat said:
What do you mean by that? I don’t think Orlando ever did anything he that anyone else on the staff wasn’t doing. He’s a very likeable person.
Click to expand...

Being a "likable person" isn't my concern ; -)

Also, I don't know the facts, nor pretend to know the facts related to the academic problems where he was coaching. I think I remember reading they involved his brother. Ultimately, when you're the head coach then you're responsible for your program.
 
bballcat4 said:
This is Federal, which is much bigger than NCAA. NCAA will let the Feds do the investigating. They have the manpower and budget. NCAA will just walk in behind them and use their info to dish out punishment.

Even if NCAA can't punish a team because of the SOA, being mentioned in a federal investigation would not be good.

I'll say again, I think Cal is clean. But, head coaches can't control 100% of what assistants do.
Click to expand...
I was only referring to getting into NCAA sanction trouble. Not even considering federal trouble.
 
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Something that makes me feel good about this whole situation is Cal has turned away a lot of kids that most schools would desperately want in their program. Their is a reason for that.
 
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Sithlyone said:
I keep coming back to this.

If Cal was/is dirty they would've found it by now. He is under the finest microscope because he doesn't pull punches and he is a constant pain in their backsides.

Cal is great for the game and if he was to go down it would be a huge hit to cbb but they can't control Cal so they want him gone.
Click to expand...
The FBI has not looked at anyone until now. Now the truth will come out as to whether Cal is a cheater or Cal is not a cheater.
 
bballcat4 said:
We'll probably never know how much Asst Coaches do that head coaches never know about.

I never thought for 1 second that Pitino didn't know about the hookers. However, I can see some scenarios where he was in the dark regarding Bowen. (Topic for another thread.) There's irony that he kept his job through Sypher and Syphilis, but loses it over this.

Antigua was with Cal in the early UK years and was connected to Wm Wesley. Cal trusted him a lot and I'm sure Antigua wasn't micromanaged. What concerns me about him was his quick run-in with NCAA when he got his first head coaching gig. I think most of it was related to academics.

I do think Cal has kept a close watch over recruiting since Antigua's departure. But, Kenny Payne, Antigua, Josh Pastner and other assistant coaches know their ticket to a potential good head coaching gig is to be known as the ace recruiter. (I'm certainly not accusing any of the 3, but just listing Cal's assistants who have been lead recruiters.) I can see how an assistant who wants to be known as the ace recruiter, so he can leverage his reputation for a good head coaching gig, does something dumb without the head coach knowing about it.

Antigua makes me nervous only because of his quick run-in with NCAA and currently being at Illinois. Everyone knows that Chicago is the cesspool for recruiting and runners.

The only good thing is that he was gone from UK before the 3 year investigation began.

I think Cal is clean and it's obvious he's backed away from some contaminated players over the last few years. I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that the money people want their claws into the UK pipeline and I'm sure they've tried to go around Cal to make it happen. It only takes one assistant coach making one bad decision to destroy Cal.
Click to expand...


Orlando was not implicated, his brother screwed up at USF, and even then it was like stealing a piece of gum compared to this current mess...

Oliver Antigua provided two recruits, whose names were redacted in documents, with two nights of hotel lodging, two to five nights at Oliver Antigua's home, meals and local transportation, all of which the NCAA considers impermissible. The benefits were estimated to cost between $402 and $511.

According to the disposition report, when Orlando Antigua learned from USF's compliance staff that two recruits were academically ineligible, he tasked his brother with monitoring the situation and told him students needed to complete their own coursework.

Orlando Antigua reported he was unaware that his brother had provided impermissible benefits or that the recruits were staying near the USF campus and working with a tutor.

"The enforcement staff and institution did not discover any information refuting (Orlando) Antigua's reports," the disposition report said. No one interviewed implicated Orlando Antigua in wrongdoing, according to the documents.

"The enforcement staff believes that (Orlando) Antigua satisfied his obligations as a head coach and thereby rebutted the presumption of responsibility (for violations)."


The NCAA enforcement staff considered whether Orlando Antigua had actively looked for red flags. The two recruits received tutoring at USF's Morsani College of Medicine from the sister-in-law of Gerald Gillion, who was a special assistant to Orlando Antigua.

Yet the investigation found nothing that suggested academic fraud or that the recruits relied on "impermissible assistance" to complete their coursework.
 
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bballcat4 said:
We'll probably never know how much Asst Coaches do that head coaches never know about.

I never thought for 1 second that Pitino didn't know about the hookers. However, I can see some scenarios where he was in the dark regarding Bowen. (Topic for another thread.) There's irony that he kept his job through Sypher and Syphilis, but loses it over this.

Antigua was with Cal in the early UK years and was connected to Wm Wesley. Cal trusted him a lot and I'm sure Antigua wasn't micromanaged. What concerns me about him was his quick run-in with NCAA when he got his first head coaching gig. I think most of it was related to academics.

I do think Cal has kept a close watch over recruiting since Antigua's departure. But, Kenny Payne, Antigua, Josh Pastner and other assistant coaches know their ticket to a potential good head coaching gig is to be known as the ace recruiter. (I'm certainly not accusing any of the 3, but just listing Cal's assistants who have been lead recruiters.) I can see how an assistant who wants to be known as the ace recruiter, so he can leverage his reputation for a good head coaching gig, does something dumb without the head coach knowing about it.

Antigua makes me nervous only because of his quick run-in with NCAA and currently being at Illinois. Everyone knows that Chicago is the cesspool for recruiting and runners.

The only good thing is that he was gone from UK before the 3 year investigation began.

I think Cal is clean and it's obvious he's backed away from some contaminated players over the last few years. I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that the money people want their claws into the UK pipeline and I'm sure they've tried to go around Cal to make it happen. It only takes one assistant coach making one bad decision to destroy Cal.
Click to expand...

Go fishing and sooner or later you'll catch something. (Most of the time.)
 
in my understanding, is when Coach Cal is ready to recruit a player (s) he turns the list or name over to sandy, thats why at times you see sandy with Cal at aau circuit, she is watching and investigating the player(s) on who they speak with and who their parents are talking too etc? can anyone confirm this is how it is?
 
RDCat07 said:
here's the thing asst coaches can't get that kinda cash together without the head coach involved it just doesn't happen. the idea of a rouge asst. is just smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...

Not sure that is true. An assistant could coordinate and get the money from well heeled boosters without much if any difficulty.

In fact, it would seem the most logical and most likelt way to go about it because you arguably insulate the program better while end arounding the compliance department.
 
It is very plausible that an assistant could get the money without the HC knowing anything about it, just as Bluegrassking alluded to. That isn't even my biggest concern. My concern is how many players around the country, and yes, possibly including some of our own, might have received impermissible benefits from Nike, Adiddas, etc ...and what would that mean for their eligibility? Even if it does not involve the school in any way, if a player puts their eligibility into question by accepting "benefits" during their high school years (think AAU, Nike EYBL, etc), would the school then have to forfeit any wins while that player was there?

In the end, we are ALL in uncharted waters and it is not clear just how far this will go or how many schools will be affected in one way or another. At the end of the day though, it will change the game for sure, and you can all but count on the NBA using this as a trigger to do away with one and done. We will go back to the days of players going pro out of high school. This will change the face of the game in so many ways that it isn't just scary.
 
I think we are ok as long as Kenny Payne isn't a plant by UL to bring us down. [laughing]
 
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bballcat4 said:
We'll probably never know how much Asst Coaches do that head coaches never know about.

I never thought for 1 second that Pitino didn't know about the hookers. However, I can see some scenarios where he was in the dark regarding Bowen. (Topic for another thread.) There's irony that he kept his job through Sypher and Syphilis, but loses it over this.

Antigua was with Cal in the early UK years and was connected to Wm Wesley. Cal trusted him a lot and I'm sure Antigua wasn't micromanaged. What concerns me about him was his quick run-in with NCAA when he got his first head coaching gig. I think most of it was related to academics.

I do think Cal has kept a close watch over recruiting since Antigua's departure. But, Kenny Payne, Antigua, Josh Pastner and other assistant coaches know their ticket to a potential good head coaching gig is to be known as the ace recruiter. (I'm certainly not accusing any of the 3, but just listing Cal's assistants who have been lead recruiters.) I can see how an assistant who wants to be known as the ace recruiter, so he can leverage his reputation for a good head coaching gig, does something dumb without the head coach knowing about it.

Antigua makes me nervous only because of his quick run-in with NCAA and currently being at Illinois. Everyone knows that Chicago is the cesspool for recruiting and runners.

The only good thing is that he was gone from UK before the 3 year investigation began.

I think Cal is clean and it's obvious he's backed away from some contaminated players over the last few years. I'm also realistic enough to acknowledge that the money people want their claws into the UK pipeline and I'm sure they've tried to go around Cal to make it happen. It only takes one assistant coach making one bad decision to destroy Cal.
Click to expand...
I have 99 worries and Antigua is not one of them. He has been gone for some time. Let's just say, I am glad we have Sandy Bell. Someone was just posting about how Sandy needs to let Cal recruit however he wants. Well maybe now we can appreciate her
 
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Daddy B said:
It is very plausible that an assistant could get the money without the HC knowing anything about it, just as Bluegrassking alluded to. That isn't even my biggest concern. My concern is how many players around the country, and yes, possibly including some of our own, might have received impermissible benefits from Nike, Adiddas, etc ...and what would that mean for their eligibility? Even if it does not involve the school in any way, if a player puts their eligibility into question by accepting "benefits" during their high school years (think AAU, Nike EYBL, etc), would the school then have to forfeit any wins while that player was there?

In the end, we are ALL in uncharted waters and it is not clear just how far this will go or how many schools will be affected in one way or another. At the end of the day though, it will change the game for sure, and you can all but count on the NBA using this as a trigger to do away with one and done. We will go back to the days of players going pro out of high school. This will change the face of the game in so many ways that it isn't just scary.
Click to expand...
NBA does not need a trigger, they own the whole damn gun
 
Allegations generally are based on violations that have occurred four or fewer years before the time an institution is notified of an investigation or an institution notifies the enforcement staff of violations. However, the enforcement staff may allege violations that have occurred beyond the four-year period if they involve (1) the eligibility of a current student-athlete, (2) a pattern of willful violations that began before the four-year window but continue into the four-year window or (3) a blatant disregard for certain fundamental rules (recruiting, extra benefits, academics, ethical conduct) or (4) an effort to conceal violations.
 
Lovebaskelball said:
Allegations generally are based on violations that have occurred four or fewer years before the time an institution is notified of an investigation or an institution notifies the enforcement staff of violations. However, the enforcement staff may allege violations that have occurred beyond the four-year period if they involve (1) the eligibility of a current student-athlete, (2) a pattern of willful violations that began before the four-year window but continue into the four-year window or (3) a blatant disregard for certain fundamental rules (recruiting, extra benefits, academics, ethical conduct) or (4) an effort to conceal violations.
Click to expand...
Academics? North Carolina says they have no jurisdiction over academics
 
No. Pitino says he knows everything about his program but then claims he doesn't. Calipari knows all. He has full involvement I'm confident and nothing would happen.
 
All I know is if I was Cleveland State I'd be pretty worried right now. They might get 100 years of probation.
 
I will never believe in 100 years that Slick Rick did not know about the parties. Never.
Too much went on in one of our buildings that certain people were there that no way they would not say something to their mommy and daddy.
I am around Minardi Hall everyday. Everyday. The amount of partying that went on could not have happened without inside help. No way.
Screw that Zip guy, his goofy buddy, Rhodes or something. They don't know jack about what I seen for the last 6 years.
I can say this now since all hell is breaking out. One day a certain female told me while at this property that they take care of everything from taking the girls to the players, tucking them in, picking them up before morning, school work, drive them around, you name it. She went on to say we do everything but screw them, we have bitches for that.
So folks, please do not try and tell me Slick did not know. If he didn't, then he is either blind or stupid.
 
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