Offenses Problems (Scag vs Coen)

[PigSkinCatt]

Look, the other night was horrible. The offense was non existence, and was really just a bad showing for our team. I understand that the easy thing to do is to blame the OC. I am not saying that the guy is great by any means, but let’s don’t act like Coen was some guru. Coen had two major advantage Scag doesn’t have.

1. A really strong offensive line. I just don’t think the average fan understand how important it is to control the line of scrimmage. When you can protect and open holes it makes it so much easier for the running game and the passing game. look how many times in the past we could run the ball right down teams throats. A strong running game, makes passing the ball so much easier when they are worried about stopping the run. Tennessee is able to send out all those receivers because thier OLine is getting it done. Could you imagine what would happen to Levi’s if we only left that many guys in to protect?

2. Coen had a Levis that would run the ball. Levi’s is at his best when he is a dual threat, like he was last year. I said all summer to my circle of friends ….. “ I am worried Levi’s is going be to worried about showing off his passing game to the pro scouts, and will look to run the ball very little “. Levi’s never looks to run no more like he did last year.

Yes, I know the arguement can be made that we got more weapons at WR this year…… I would agree with that. Although we don’t have no one like Wandale, we still got a better group over-all. (But not by as much as it may seem). As good as Brown is he is not a great WR. Yes, he is a great return guy!!! But everyone knows that now and he will get very few opportunities going forward.

We have been spoiled with great OLines. I truly think we will get back to having a great Oline. Stoops understand the importance of the group. But for a Mark Stoops football team to be good, he needs a strong running game that sets up the play action. We have won a lot of games that way under coach Stoops. Believe Coach will get it right if NIL/transfer portal doesn’t ruin Kentucky football first.

 

[NavyCat88]

OL is the root cause and Scang’s responsibility.

If the OL is young and inexperienced, he needed to structure a simple scheme they can understand and implement. That way we can run the ball, have effective play action and not have our QB driven to the turf a dozen times per game (limiting his ability to run for a first down now and then).

We have recruited well for OL. OC has to adapt to the youth and experience level of the recruits.

WE. ARE. NOT. IMPROVING. ON. THE. OL.

GBB!

 

[gobigbluebell]

Coen was a guru.

Scang sucks.

Idk who’s responsible for not letting Will run, but they really suck. Why in the world would you take away an offensive weapon like that?

 

[EliteBlue]

That isn’t “Levis wanting to show off his arm”

Coen ran a lot of RPO concepts that used that threat and presented those opportunities. He also had a lot of 1-2 read pass plays where if it’s not there…scramble and go get positive yards.

Scang runs zero RPO and views himself as a “QB Guru” so it isn’t uncommon to teach guys to stay in the pocket at all cost and let the play continue to develop.

 

[PigSkinCatt]

That isn’t “Levis wanting to show off his arm”

Coen ran a lot of RPO concepts that used that threat and presented those opportunities. He also had a lot of 1-2 read pass plays where if it’s not there…scramble and go get positive yards.

Scang runs zero RPO and views himself as a “QB Guru” so it isn’t uncommon to teach guys to stay in the pocket at all cost and let the play continue to develop.

Levis is not looking to run the ball. I get the RPO argument….. that’s fair. But This year, Levis never looks to pull it down and run. If no one is open use your athletic ability. I love when he would do that. Josh Allen does it all the time and he gots a hell of a lot better of offense at the same time. Will is trying to show everyone how good of a passer he is in my opinion.

 

[PigSkinCatt]

C

Coen was a guru.

Scang sucks.

Idk who’s responsible for not letting Will run, but they really suck. Why in the world would you take away an offensive weapon like that

Coen wasn’t nothing special. Many times last year our passing game struggled. He had that running game to lean on. When your offensive line is struggling, It truly limits what you can execute as a offense. If Hipeal had our offensive line, he could of think of running his offense

 

[cats2010]

Your #2 point is quite laughable. You really think WL has just decided that he’s no longer going to tuck and run on his own. He became the prospect he did due to his toughness demeanor along with the other attributes he brings to the table.

offensive line has been a problem all year but good coaches scheme around their deficiencies. We have more weapons on offense this year and look completely lost most of the game on that side of the ball. Scang is really doing a poor job and has been all year. If Stoops does not cut bait with his ass and replace him with a high level OC then we are going to lose recruits and start the slide back into oblivion.

 

[bthaunert]

Might not be a popular take, but I don't think Coen was nearly as good as some of you thought he was. We averaged 27ppg in the SEC. We scored 20 points, or less, in 5 of our games. We were starving for offense bc of Gran, but was Coen really that great?

 

[PigSkinCatt]

OL is the root cause and Scang’s responsibility.

If the OL is young and inexperienced, he needed to structure a simple scheme they can understand and implement. That way we can run the ball, have effective play action and not have our QB driven to the turf a dozen times per game (limiting his ability to run for a first down now and then).

We have recruited well for OL. OC has to adapt to the youth and experience level of the recruits.

WE. ARE. NOT. IMPROVING. ON. THE. OL.

GBB!

Sometimes just because you recruit top players don’t mean they turn into top players at the college level. Espically in football and espically when talking about the Oline. The big question is…… how much worth of NIL money should we of paid the Big Pass blocking LT we had last year, that left early for NFL. He would be worth $500k at least. Is he even making that in the NFL now?

 

[Soupbean]

Look, the other night was horrible. The offense was non existence, and was really just a bad showing for our team. I understand that the easy thing to do is to blame the OC. I am not saying that the guy is great by any means, but let’s don’t act like Coen was some guru. Coen had two major advantage Scag doesn’t have.

1. A really strong offensive line. I just don’t think the average fan understand how important it is to control the line of scrimmage. When you can protect and open holes it makes it so much easier for the running game and the passing game. look how many times in the past we could run the ball right down teams throats. A strong running game, makes passing the ball so much easier when they are worried about stopping the run. Tennessee is able to send out all those receivers because thier OLine is getting it done. Could you imagine what would happen to Levi’s if we only left that many guys in to protect?

2. Coen had a Levis that would run the ball. Levi’s is at his best when he is a dual threat, like he was last year. I said all summer to my circle of friends ….. “ I am worried Levi’s is going be to worried about showing off his passing game to the pro scouts, and will look to run the ball very little “. Levi’s never looks to run no more like he did last year.

Yes, I know the arguement can be made that we got more weapons at WR this year…… I would agree with that. Although we don’t have no one like Wandale, we still got a better group over-all. (But not by as much as it may seem). As good as Brown is he is not a great WR. Yes, he is a great return guy!!! But everyone knows that now and he will get very few opportunities going forward.

We have been spoiled with great OLines. I truly think we will get back to having a great Oline. Stoops understand the importance of the group. But for a Mark Stoops football team to be good, he needs a strong running game that sets up the play action. We have won a lot of games that way under coach Stoops. Believe Coach will get it right if NIL/transfer portal doesn’t ruin Kentucky football first.

Yeah Coen had his struggles as well and had an up and down year no doubt. I made your second point in the pre-season when I kept hearing about Scan wanting to protect Will. Will is better when he can use his feet and arm just like any QB with athletic abililty. That extra threat just adds a dimension and its part of what makes Hooker so dangerous. Will has been hurt all year this year and none of them came from taking off and running they all came from pocket which is an injury zone waiting to happen with a spotty Oline.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Coen struggled most of the sec schedule. He was completely shut down until the LSU game where we started QB read and rpo. Levis took off (literally).

This year is all about protecting Levis, elevating his draft stock, and developing him for the draft. That's why we don't run any of the stuff that made the offense finally work last season.

As a program, they need to decide will we spend the final few games trying to push Levis to #1 or try to win games? I'm not saying we need QB power or anything but there is no reason we can't have QB read a few times a game. Levis is great at it and it opens up the entire run game because the defense has to account for him. The run game opens the play action.

 

[Tf2217]

Sometimes just because you recruit top players don’t mean they turn into top players at the college level. Espically in football and espically when talking about the Oline. The big question is…… how much worth of NIL money should we of paid the Big Pass blocking LT we had last year, that left early for NFL. He would be worth $500k at least. Is he even making that in the NFL now?

He’s not in the NFL period.

 

[PigSkinCatt]

Might not be a popular take, but I don't think Coen was nearly as good as some of you thought he was. We averaged 27ppg in the SEC. We scored 20 points, or less, in 5 of our games. We were starving for offense bc of Gran, but was Coen really that great?

I agree, We forget about his struggles because we ended the season on a high note and had a lot easier schedule last year. When you win in sports, A lot of problems go away

 

[PigSkinCatt]

Your #2 point is quite laughable. You really think WL has just decided that he’s no longer going to tuck and run on his own. He became the prospect he did due to his toughness demeanor along with the other attributes he brings to the table.

offensive line has been a problem all year but good coaches scheme around their deficiencies. We have more weapons on offense this year and look completely lost most of the game on that side of the ball. Scang is really doing a poor job and has been all year. If Stoops does not cut bait with his ass and replace him with a high level OC then we are going to lose recruits and start the slide back into oblivion.

You can argue is laughable….. but i think there is a lot of truth there. If you were interviewing for a $20 million dollar job, you would try everything in your power to protect your status and body that is going to allow you to make that money. Before last year Levi’s was a guy playing football….. a game he has loved his whole life. This year, that same guy, had life changing money on his mind. That’s just human nature if you ask me.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Look, the other night was horrible. The offense was non existence, and was really just a bad showing for our team. I understand that the easy thing to do is to blame the OC. I am not saying that the guy is great by any means, but let’s don’t act like Coen was some guru. Coen had two major advantage Scag doesn’t have.

1. A really strong offensive line. I just don’t think the average fan understand how important it is to control the line of scrimmage. When you can protect and open holes it makes it so much easier for the running game and the passing game. look how many times in the past we could run the ball right down teams throats. A strong running game, makes passing the ball so much easier when they are worried about stopping the run. Tennessee is able to send out all those receivers because thier OLine is getting it done. Could you imagine what would happen to Levi’s if we only left that many guys in to protect?

2. Coen had a Levis that would run the ball. Levi’s is at his best when he is a dual threat, like he was last year. I said all summer to my circle of friends ….. “ I am worried Levi’s is going be to worried about showing off his passing game to the pro scouts, and will look to run the ball very little “. Levi’s never looks to run no more like he did last year.

Yes, I know the arguement can be made that we got more weapons at WR this year…… I would agree with that. Although we don’t have no one like Wandale, we still got a better group over-all. (But not by as much as it may seem). As good as Brown is he is not a great WR. Yes, he is a great return guy!!! But everyone knows that now and he will get very few opportunities going forward.

We have been spoiled with great OLines. I truly think we will get back to having a great Oline. Stoops understand the importance of the group. But for a Mark Stoops football team to be good, he needs a strong running game that sets up the play action. We have won a lot of games that way under coach Stoops. Believe Coach will get it right if NIL/transfer portal doesn’t ruin Kentucky football first.

Puke orange and UK'S philosophy is like night &day.
If you watch PO is exclusively SG and unless it's called for a roll out is never more than a two step drop if that. It is designed to score quickly and a lot. Clock time doesn't matter. They have skilled players and they feed them the ball a lot . PO's avg ppg is 49.4 the last I checked.
UK'S philosophy is totally the opposite . We are under center mostly and do 5/7 stepbdrops with clock management and sustained long drives the priority to keep the defense off the field. This UK team has the most skilled players I've ever seen UK have , but there is zero emphasis on getting them the ball in space and it's bubble passes or fades. Of the 16 passes WL completed Sat., ELEVEN were behind the LOS! How is that showing any kind of emphasis on scoring pts? Stoops said in his post-game and Monday presser that this is the kind if offense he wants so what would a change in OCs do any good?
UK'S is avging 23ppg with 18.4 clip in conference. Not rocket science.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Your #2 point is quite laughable. You really think WL has just decided that he’s no longer going to tuck and run on his own. He became the prospect he did due to his toughness demeanor along with the other attributes he brings to the table.

offensive line has been a problem all year but good coaches scheme around their deficiencies. We have more weapons on offense this year and look completely lost most of the game on that side of the ball. Scang is really doing a poor job and has been all year. If Stoops does not cut bait with his ass and replace him with a high level OC then we are going to lose recruits and start the slide back into oblivion.

People say good coaches scheme around their deficiencies like it's common for a team with a poor offensive line to be a top producing offense. That's rarely the case. Coaches scheme around things like not having a good running back or not having a good tight end. Gran did a good job scheming around not having a quarter back that could throw the ball. If you have a poor offensive line it's very difficult to scheme around that. If you can't run the ball and can't protect the quarter back there is not much scheming you can do to overcome that. You try to win with defense and that's a tough job in the SEC.

 

[HoptownCat93]

The difference?

3 NFL offensive linemen last year. Kinnard/Rosenthal is as good of a tackle duo as you’ll ever see from a talent perspective. Then Luke Fortner…maybe the best rookie OL in this rookie class.

Anyone who says “aww uhhhh durrrr Coen would’ve adjusted” is full of crap. Coen didn’t have to move Horsey to tackle and get an inexperienced Flax to be his tackle. He didn’t have Eli Cox at center…had him at guard. He didn’t have to play an inexperienced Jager Burton at guard…he got Luke Fortner.

And yes…maybe our receiver room is more talented…but we’re relying on 2 true freshman. Wan’dale wasn’t exactly scoring because of amazing schemes…he could make plays. We b**** about screens…but I think we forget how many Wan’dale screens turned into big plays. And maybe the freshman are more talented than Josh Ali…but Josh Ali was a 5th year Senior compared to Brown who didn’t even come to Spring camp.

So let’s see…we got from an elite line to one of the worst in power 5. Less time to throw the ball and let plays develop. A new OC who barely gets here before spring practice and didn’t recruit any of these players. A line that could create big holes for the running game…and give the QB way more time to pass to setup the PA.

Let’s not act like Coen magically would’ve been able to work around this bad offensive line…look at Wan’dale below and tell me it was all Coen’s genius that made the offense go…

 

[yoshukai]

Levis is not looking to run the ball. I get the RPO argument….. that’s fair. But This year, Levis never looks to pull it down and run. If no one is open use your athletic ability. I love when he would do that. Josh Allen does it all the time and he gots a hell of a lot better of offense at the same time. Will is trying to show everyone how good of a passer he is in my opinion.

In one of his first interviews Scan said he absolutely did not want Will running the ball because of two things. #1 - he didn’t want him to get injured; #2- he said Will would never learn to go through his progressions if he pulled it down and ran when his primary target wasn’t open . It’s probably true , but it’s a painful learning experience that has hindered Wills effectiveness.

 

[K_TIME]

Might not be a popular take, but I don't think Coen was nearly as good as some of you thought he was. We averaged 27ppg in the SEC. We scored 20 points, or less, in 5 of our games. We were starving for offense bc of Gran, but was Coen really that great?

- We scored 32 pts a game in 2021...with Coen.
- Right now we are scorinig 23 pts a game with Scang.
- We scored 21 pts a game in 2020...with Gran (and all SEC schedule)

A 9pt drop in scoring is staggering drop. (That is a 28% decrease in scoring). I get losing Fortner, Kinnard and Rosenthal was some good players. But we had Horsey and Cox back who were fine last year. It was their decision to move guys to new spots and they didn't have to. Buford was decent at LT and Q. Wilson could have kept at C....but they chose to move guys around. In the end, Yenser has been terrible on the whole. Is this really a one year hiccup....but it's hard to see a good future losing Levis and CRod with how inflexible the staff was to incorporate around pieces they were handed.

 

[bthaunert]

- We scored 32 pts a game in 2021...with Coen.
- Right now we are scorinig 23 pts a game with Scang.
- We scored 21 pts a game in 2020...with Gran (and all SEC schedule)

A 9pt drop in scoring is staggering drop. (That is a 28% decrease in scoring). I get losing Fortner, Kinnard and Rosenthal was some good players. But we had Horsey and Cox back who were fine last year. It was their decision to move guys to new spots and they didn't have to. Buford was decent at LT and Q. Wilson could have kept at C....but they chose to move guys around. In the end, Yenser has been terrible on the whole. Is this really a one year hiccup....but it's hard to see a good future losing Levis and CRod with how inflexible the staff was to incorporate around pieces they were handed.

We were definitely better under Coen then Gran or Rich, there is no doubt. I think we can also glorify his time here bc he's sandwiched between Gran and Rich.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

- We scored 32 pts a game in 2021...with Coen.
- Right now we are scorinig 23 pts a game with Scang.
- We scored 21 pts a game in 2020...with Gran (and all SEC schedule)

A 9pt drop in scoring is staggering drop. (That is a 28% decrease in scoring). I get losing Fortner, Kinnard and Rosenthal was some good players. But we had Horsey and Cox back who were fine last year. It was their decision to move guys to new spots and they didn't have to. Buford was decent at LT and Q. Wilson could have kept at C....but they chose to move guys around. In the end, Yenser has been terrible on the whole. Is this really a one year hiccup....but it's hard to see a good future losing Levis and CRod with how inflexible the staff was to incorporate around pieces they were handed.

It's hard to say if it's a one year blip or if Scang and Yenser just won't be very good in general. Time will tell that tale. I believe they have the experience and the knowledge to be good. I also trust Stoops. He generally makes pretty good hires. Right now I'm thinking it has more to do with the line being inexperienced and not coming together like we hoped than it does poor coaching. Stoops is really the only one who knows what is going on and all I can do is trust his judgement. If he has faith in those coaches I have to believe it's with good reason. If he doesn't, I'm fine with parting ways with one or both of them.

 

[PigSkinCatt]

I know people understand how important a offensive line is. I just don’t think people understand how important it is. It is the foundation of your offense. Give me a great Oline and a average QB, over a great QB and a average or poor Oline. A great Oline will make a average QB look great. Look at Tom Brady now that he doesn’t have great Protection. Look at Tim Couch or the yester-years Denver Broncos running game. It didn’t matter who was the RB, as long as they had a great Oline. That’s why the RB is one of the most replaceable positions in the NFL today. People have learned that a good Oline equals a good running game. If I was building a team tomorow I would start with Olinemen.

 

[HoptownCat93]

- We scored 32 pts a game in 2021...with Coen.
- Right now we are scorinig 23 pts a game with Scang.
- We scored 21 pts a game in 2020...with Gran (and all SEC schedule)

A 9pt drop in scoring is staggering drop. (That is a 28% decrease in scoring). I get losing Fortner, Kinnard and Rosenthal was some good players. But we had Horsey and Cox back who were fine last year. It was their decision to move guys to new spots and they didn't have to. Buford was decent at LT and Q. Wilson could have kept at C....but they chose to move guys around. In the end, Yenser has been terrible on the whole. Is this really a one year hiccup....but it's hard to see a good future losing Levis and CRod with how inflexible the staff was to incorporate around pieces they were handed.

If we factor the PPG against common opponents…

Scang has faced 3 NC cupcakes, at Florida, USCjr, Mississippi State, at Tennessee, and at Ole Miss (Western team)

Coen faced the 3 cupcakes, Florida, at USCjr, at Mississippi State, Tennessee, and LSU

In the common games…(including LSU/OM)
2021: 33.25
2022: 23.88

But…LSU was a home game against a bad team and Ole Miss was on the road against a good defense…taking them out

2021: 32.00
2022: 24.57

So then I see the Tennessee game as a big difference…it was home last year and they were a 6-6 team…not #2 in the nation…taking that out and leaving these 6 games..

2021: 30.33
2022: 27.67

Looking at it overall…

Against the cupcakes
2021: 43
2022: 33

It’s big, but remember we had CRod all 3 of those games last year

Florida
2021: 20
2022: 26

USC jr.
2021: 16
2022: 14

Tennessee
2021: 42
2022: 6

Miss State
2021: 17
2022: 27


Numbers can be tricky. Overall, yes we were much higher scoring last year…but the factors the OC last year vs. this year…

1. Coen had 3 NFL OLinemen he inherited. Much easier to start. Scang has an inexperienced/bad offensive line.

2. Coen had Wan’dale Robinson and 5th year senior Ali. Scang has Tavion Robinson and 2 true freshman

3. Chris Rodriguez played in every game last year for Coen. Scang didn’t have Rodriguez the first 4 games.

4. Coen had Levis start every game. Scang had a game not playing Levis.

The outlier game is the Tennessee game. Inexcusable yes…but Tennessee is better and we’re much worse. But overall when you factor in the difference in OLINE talent and Coen having Wan’dale/CRod for the full year….you can see the data is different.

But I’m guessing Coen made Kinnard, Rosenthal, and Fortner good linemen and schemed around their flaws and he’d make Flax/Horsey elite tackles? Wan’dale wasn’t a historically great playmaker…all Coen and Tavion/Brown/Key would all be just the same.

And also…I’m not a big Scang guy personally…I don’t think he’s got a good flow to games…but I also don’t think we can say Coen would’ve made this line magically better and that Wan’dale’s playmaking ability turned games around due to his effort (cough…Florida, Iowa, etc)

If we finish 8-4…verrryyy disappointing considering the belief…but it also will be a solid season nonetheless.

 

[3632]

Coen was clunky at times too with our players. Fans viewed it as trying to play a new way with players recruited for something else. I do feel like he was good at figuring out what Will didn’t do well and stayed away from it in the home stretch to make us more efficient. I.e throwing behind on routes across the middle. Shoot we were awful offensively in the bowl game we just came alive in the last couple of minutes to do just enough. He also did have an OL to lean on. I don’t think Scangarello has been great but I really don’t know how much of it is him vs stoops desire to play more ball control after the ole miss game (which he indicated post ole miss game) vs just OL limitations.

 

[Eccain01]

I’m sorry. Threw for 90 yards vs the worst pass defense in the country. I don’t believe that would have happened if we still had coen. Not to mention last year we almost always scored on our first drive which shows coen was GREAT at scripting opening drives. How many times had that happened this year??? Levis not using his legs is an indictment on scang as well. 6 pts in that game is unacceptable

 

[3632]

I

I’m sorry. Threw for 90 yards vs the worst pass defense in the country. I don’t believe that would have happened if we still had coen. Not to mention last year we almost always scored on our first drive which shows coen was GREAT at scripting opening drives. How many times had that happened this year??? Levis not using his legs is an indictment on scang as well. 6 pts in that game is unacceptable

One of the things that wears on me about Scang is how he spends every interview referencing things to the nfl. Yeah, I don’t really care about that how do things correlate to right now. He may just be recruiting the next transfer by talking that way but it feels like he can’t leave the league sometimes. This isn’t the league.

 

[HoptownCat93]

I’m sorry. Threw for 90 yards vs the worst pass defense in the country. I don’t believe that would have happened if we still had coen. Not to mention last year we almost always scored on our first drive which shows coen was GREAT at scripting opening drives. How many times had that happened this year??? Levis not using his legs is an indictment on scang as well. 6 pts in that game is unacceptable

 

[Eccain01]

View embedded media

Unfortunately i can pull this with just about every game this year so what’s your point?

 

[yoshukai]

- We scored 32 pts a game in 2021...with Coen.
- Right now we are scorinig 23 pts a game with Scang.
- We scored 21 pts a game in 2020...with Gran (and all SEC schedule)

A 9pt drop in scoring is staggering drop. (That is a 28% decrease in scoring). I get losing Fortner, Kinnard and Rosenthal was some good players. But we had Horsey and Cox back who were fine last year. It was their decision to move guys to new spots and they didn't have to. Buford was decent at LT and Q. Wilson could have kept at C....but they chose to move guys around. In the end, Yenser has been terrible on the whole. Is this really a one year hiccup....but it's hard to see a good future losing Levis and CRod with how inflexible the staff was to incorporate around pieces they were handed.

It will be interesting to see if some of our linemen enter the portal. And if they do is it because they aren’t really sec talent or because they hate the blocking scheme and/or coaches .

 

[yoshukai]

If we factor the PPG against common opponents…

Scang has faced 3 NC cupcakes, at Florida, USCjr, Mississippi State, at Tennessee, and at Ole Miss (Western team)

Coen faced the 3 cupcakes, Florida, at USCjr, at Mississippi State, Tennessee, and LSU

In the common games…(including LSU/OM)
2021: 33.25
2022: 23.88

But…LSU was a home game against a bad team and Ole Miss was on the road against a good defense…taking them out

2021: 32.00
2022: 24.57

So then I see the Tennessee game as a big difference…it was home last year and they were a 6-6 team…not #2 in the nation…taking that out and leaving these 6 games..

2021: 30.33
2022: 27.67

Looking at it overall…

Against the cupcakes
2021: 43
2022: 33

It’s big, but remember we had CRod all 3 of those games last year

Florida
2021: 20
2022: 26

USC jr.
2021: 16
2022: 14

Tennessee
2021: 42
2022: 6

Miss State
2021: 17
2022: 27


Numbers can be tricky. Overall, yes we were much higher scoring last year…but the factors the OC last year vs. this year…

1. Coen had 3 NFL OLinemen he inherited. Much easier to start. Scang has an inexperienced/bad offensive line.

2. Coen had Wan’dale Robinson and 5th year senior Ali. Scang has Tavion Robinson and 2 true freshman

3. Chris Rodriguez played in every game last year for Coen. Scang didn’t have Rodriguez the first 4 games.

4. Coen had Levis start every game. Scang had a game not playing Levis.

The outlier game is the Tennessee game. Inexcusable yes…but Tennessee is better and we’re much worse. But overall when you factor in the difference in OLINE talent and Coen having Wan’dale/CRod for the full year….you can see the data is different.

But I’m guessing Coen made Kinnard, Rosenthal, and Fortner good linemen and schemed around their flaws and he’d make Flax/Horsey elite tackles? Wan’dale wasn’t a historically great playmaker…all Coen and Tavion/Brown/Key would all be just the same.

And also…I’m not a big Scang guy personally…I don’t think he’s got a good flow to games…but I also don’t think we can say Coen would’ve made this line magically better and that Wan’dale’s playmaking ability turned games around due to his effort (cough…Florida, Iowa, etc)

If we finish 8-4…verrryyy disappointing considering the belief…but it also will be a solid season nonetheless.

All things to think about. I would add that Coen also inherited a very raw , inexperienced quarterback whereas Scan inherited a quarterback with a complete starting season under his belt including going through the SEC and a bowl game . I would hope that would translate to better quarterback play but………I’m not seeing it for one reason or another.

 

[JasonRDunn]

I am not going to say whether Coen or Scang is better -- I just do not know enough about football. I agree with everyone that Coen had some advantages (a big one was a very experienced and good OL) and some disadvantages.

Here are the stats from this year for the two coaches:

Rams		UK
7	Games Played	8
131	TOTAL FIRST DOWNS	154
27 - 93 - 11	FIRST DOWNS Rushing / Passing / By Penalty	60 - 80 - 14
40 / 88	THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS	40 / 102
` 5 / 7	FOURTH DOWN CONVERSIONS	`11 / 16
2082	TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS	2821
297	Yards Per Game	353
431 - 4.8	OFFENSE Plays / Average Yards	542 - 5.2
479	TOTAL RUSHING YARDS	901
68	Rushing Yards Per Game	113
147 - 3.3	RUSHING Plays / Average Yards	292 - 3.1
1775	TOTAL PASSING YARDS	1920
254	Passing Yards Per Game	240
183 - 260 - 8 - 6.8	PASSING Comp / Att / Int / Avg	147 - 220 - 9 - 8.7
24	SACKS	30
`9/10	FIELD GOALS	`9 / 13
13	TOUCHDOWNS	22
6 - 7 - 0 - 0	TOUCHDOWNS Rushing / Passing / Returns / Defensive	7 - 15 - 1 - 1

 

[HoptownCat93]

All things to think about. I would add that Coen also inherited a very raw , inexperienced quarterback whereas Scan inherited a quarterback with a complete starting season under his belt including going through the SEC and a bowl game . I would hope that would translate to better quarterback play but………I’m not seeing it for one reason or another.

But sometimes circumstances can make a QB…

Levis had 3 NFL offensive linemen…maybe the best group in the SEC and def a top unit in the country. That’s way more time to throw.

Maybe we’re more balanced…but is balance better than what Wan’dale provided? I mean it’s like back in the day you could a have a balanced unit in the NFL…but 1 Randy Miss just changed the game.

Maybe Levis should be better…but also how raw was he last year and how much better did an elite offensive line group and the ultimate playmaking safety blanket in Wan’dale make him look….

I guess the question is…if we don’t have Wan’dale and have a below average line last year…how would he have looked?

Also…he’s dealing with hand/finger injuries…the toe injury that cost him the game and not to mention getting the shoulder popped back in against Miss State. And remember on the TD drive at UT…remember we saw his throwing hand have an injury and he didn’t look the same after that drive…

Circumstances make things look different…Dante Culpepper didn’t look as strong without Randy Moss…

Greg Poppovich had a terrible team in 1997 when David Robinson was hurt…but got the #1 pick and then Tim Duncan and they won the title by 1999. He also had a top team in 2017…Kahwhi Leonard gets hurt and then traded…Spurs haven’t looked elite since.

Popp is still a good coach…but most of the time it’s what you have around you that matters most.

 

[2blue4u]

The summary of this thread is this: due to personnel differences, you can’t compare this year to last year. It’s that simple.

 

[gobigbluebell]

Coen was a RZ wizard, among other things. How many times did we walk in the endzone last year? You see it in the NFL often. There are some simple pass plays you just cannot defend.

Our RZ performance looks about like Eddie Gran this year. Incredibly difficult and stressful for us to move the ball down there.

 

[K_TIME]

If we factor the PPG against common opponents…

Scang has faced 3 NC cupcakes, at Florida, USCjr, Mississippi State, at Tennessee, and at Ole Miss (Western team)

Coen faced the 3 cupcakes, Florida, at USCjr, at Mississippi State, Tennessee, and LSU

In the common games…(including LSU/OM)
2021: 33.25
2022: 23.88

But…LSU was a home game against a bad team and Ole Miss was on the road against a good defense…taking them out

2021: 32.00
2022: 24.57

So then I see the Tennessee game as a big difference…it was home last year and they were a 6-6 team…not #2 in the nation…taking that out and leaving these 6 games..

2021: 30.33
2022: 27.67

Looking at it overall…

Against the cupcakes
2021: 43
2022: 33

It’s big, but remember we had CRod all 3 of those games last year

Florida
2021: 20
2022: 26

USC jr.
2021: 16
2022: 14

Tennessee
2021: 42
2022: 6

Miss State
2021: 17
2022: 27


Numbers can be tricky. Overall, yes we were much higher scoring last year…but the factors the OC last year vs. this year…

1. Coen had 3 NFL OLinemen he inherited. Much easier to start. Scang has an inexperienced/bad offensive line.

2. Coen had Wan’dale Robinson and 5th year senior Ali. Scang has Tavion Robinson and 2 true freshman

3. Chris Rodriguez played in every game last year for Coen. Scang didn’t have Rodriguez the first 4 games.

4. Coen had Levis start every game. Scang had a game not playing Levis.

The outlier game is the Tennessee game. Inexcusable yes…but Tennessee is better and we’re much worse. But overall when you factor in the difference in OLINE talent and Coen having Wan’dale/CRod for the full year….you can see the data is different.

But I’m guessing Coen made Kinnard, Rosenthal, and Fortner good linemen and schemed around their flaws and he’d make Flax/Horsey elite tackles? Wan’dale wasn’t a historically great playmaker…all Coen and Tavion/Brown/Key would all be just the same.

And also…I’m not a big Scang guy personally…I don’t think he’s got a good flow to games…but I also don’t think we can say Coen would’ve made this line magically better and that Wan’dale’s playmaking ability turned games around due to his effort (cough…Florida, Iowa, etc)

If we finish 8-4…verrryyy disappointing considering the belief…but it also will be a solid season nonetheless.

So...in all of this...Do you honestly feel like the offense will be fine in 2023? Losing Levis, CRod, Tayvion, Horsey and Bates? Do you think we make up the 9 pts a game drop right now between this year and last with the Mizz, Vandy, UGA and UL left?

I find it sort of interesting that we are trying to play up Wandale, Fortner, Kinnard, Rosenthal, Ali, Rigg, etc.. I get the Oline losses but Rosenthal never even got drafted and Kinnard fell in draft and Fortner looks like the best of the group. I just think we are way over playing the Oline thing....we act like Horsey, Cox and Manning aren't established SEC Oline...Flax, Burton were somewhat high rated kids.

This is a terrible offense...not just slightly underperforming.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

The summary of this thread is this: due to personnel differences, you can’t compare this year to last year. It’s that simple.

And how some of the same personnel is used. Last year a big part of the game was QB run. Now it's non-existent to protect will

Coen was a RZ wizard, among other things. How many times did we walk in the endzone last year? You see it in the NFL often. There are some simple pass plays you just cannot defend.

Our RZ performance looks about like Eddie Gran this year. Incredibly difficult and stressful for us to move the ball down there.

He was great. We scored two or three times on the same RB mesh pass to crod. It helps to have an incredible OL and threat of QB run. That opened all kinds of possibilities. Noone could defend it all.

So...in all of this...Do you honestly feel like the offense will be fine in 2023? Losing Levis, CRod, Tayvion, Horsey and Bates? Do you think we make up the 9 pts a game drop right now between this year and last with the Mizz, Vandy, UGA and UL left?

I find it sort of interesting that we are trying to play up Wandale, Fortner, Kinnard, Rosenthal, Ali, Rigg, etc.. I get the Oline losses but Rosenthal never even got drafted and Kinnard fell in draft and Fortner looks like the best of the group. I just think we are way over playing the Oline thing....we act like Horsey, Cox and Manning aren't established SEC Oline...Flax, Burton were somewhat high rated kids.

This is a terrible offense...not just slightly underperforming.

You can't believe we are trying to "play up" some of the best OL in school history along with statistically the best wr in school history?

Kinnard was easily one of the greatest OL in school history. He fell in the draft because he lost a ton of weight and said some controversial stuff. Dare was the weakest link but would be the best by far on this year's OL.

Manning didn't start on his team last year. Horsey is out of position (but playing way better than anyone thought he would). And Cox was overrated last year at rg before he went out. Dotson looked much better in his spot.

If anything, watching this year's OL vs last year's should educate the casual fan in the fact the OL is the most important unit on the offense

 

[K_TIME]

And how some of the same personnel is used. Last year a big part of the game was QB run. Now it's non-existent to protect will



He was great. We scored two or three times on the same RB mesh pass to crod. It helps to have an incredible OL and threat of QB run. That opened all kinds of possibilities. Noone could defend it all.



You can't believe we are trying to "play up" some of the best OL in school history along with statistically the best wr in school history?

Kinnard was easily one of the greatest OL in school history. He fell in the draft because he lost a ton of weight and said some controversial stuff. Dare was the weakest link but would be the best by far on this year's OL.

Manning didn't start on his team last year. Horsey is out of position (but playing way better than anyone thought he would). And Cox was overrated last year at rg before he went out. Dotson looked much better in his spot.

If anything, watching this year's OL vs last year's should educate the casual fan in the fact the OL is the most important unit on the offense

So Kinnard/Cox/Fortner/Horsey/Rosenthal is better than Kinnard/Fortner/Drake/Horsey/Landon Young?...

 

[Rockfly78]

Coens thing was the play action. Gotta have a line to run effective play action. Sadly we have a bad line this year. Levis isn’t running which is probably by design. At this point he’s a walking corpse and we probably don’t want him running.

new OC lacks creativity it seems. With no line we have to be creative

 

[The-Hack]

I just think we are way over playing the Oline thing.

I do not think one can ever oversell the importance of line play on either side of the ball.

 

[yoshukai]

But sometimes circumstances can make a QB…

Levis had 3 NFL offensive linemen…maybe the best group in the SEC and def a top unit in the country. That’s way more time to throw.

Maybe we’re more balanced…but is balance better than what Wan’dale provided? I mean it’s like back in the day you could a have a balanced unit in the NFL…but 1 Randy Miss just changed the game.

Maybe Levis should be better…but also how raw was he last year and how much better did an elite offensive line group and the ultimate playmaking safety blanket in Wan’dale make him look….

I guess the question is…if we don’t have Wan’dale and have a below average line last year…how would he have looked?

Also…he’s dealing with hand/finger injuries…the toe injury that cost him the game and not to mention getting the shoulder popped back in against Miss State. And remember on the TD drive at UT…remember we saw his throwing hand have an injury and he didn’t look the same after that drive…

Circumstances make things look different…Dante Culpepper didn’t look as strong without Randy Moss…

Greg Poppovich had a terrible team in 1997 when David Robinson was hurt…but got the #1 pick and then Tim Duncan and they won the title by 1999. He also had a top team in 2017…Kahwhi Leonard gets hurt and then traded…Spurs haven’t looked elite since.

Popp is still a good coach…but most of the time it’s what you have around you that matters most.

All good points and things to think about.