OC’s After Leaving Stoops

[JBHolmesfan]

Shannon Dawson is in his first year as the OC. Neal Brown is the HC at WVU. NCAA’s site hasn’t updated the team offense rankings to include yesterday’s games but here are their rankings.

Houston has the 27th ranked total offense (14th in passing; 78th in rushing).

West Virginia has the 24th ranked total offense (21st in passing; 51st in rushing). WVU just put up 37 on Kansas State.

It seems blatantly obvious to me that our offensive woes here aren’t because of the coordinators.

 

[cats2010]

Probably true but the blame still falls on the coordinators for not doing what they do best. Sorry but if I’m an offensive coordinator and you hire me to do a job I will do it my way or I won’t take the job. If you don’t like my way then don’t hire me, simple as that.

 

[CatPatrick13]

Of course, If the data is true, it smells of tampering by Stoops. I noticed yesterday that Stoops was in the offensive huddle quite often. Does he trust Gran? If not, then who would he trust?

 

[jnewc2]

It’s sad to see how Stoops has wasted a pretty decent overall team because of his stubbornness and or lack of ability to adapt. If I have to watch one more situation at the end of the first half where Stoops shuts it down because he’s scared to try and score I’ll lose my mind. I’ve never seen a coach that refuses to run a two minute offense like he does. I like the dude, but he’s lucky he’s at Kentucky, because the mistakes he consistently makes (and gets by with) get you fired at most schools that we compete against.

 

[bthaunert]

Of course, If the data is true, it smells of tampering by Stoops. I noticed yesterday that Stoops was in the offensive huddle quite often. Does he trust Gran? If not, then who would he trust?

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

 

[CatPatrick13]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

Good post. And anything is possible. Maybe we should hire an OC with the same philosophy as the HC. I can tell you one thing, Stoops is not an expert on offense. How about we hire an expert, which I believe Eddie Gran is, and allow him to do his job.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

I would argue that it hasn’t really been that successful for Stoops. He still has a losing record for his tenure here. We had a championship level defense in 2018 that won us 10 games. If we had a competent offense it’s fair to wonder if we would’ve won more. We’ve beaten up on lesser teams with the OOC games and some lower level conference teams. The 7 win seasons are padded with 3/4 OOC cupcakes and then Vandy and Missouri.

I want us to take the next step and become a better program. I believe we can. Stoops has shown he’s a good recruiter and will get talent here. I worry that he is own worst enemy. His stubbornness on offense is holding us back.

 

[MrHotDice]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

It’s not worked. Until UK comes close to a SEC east title it doesn’t work. Beating the Little Sisters of the Poor with Stoops offense is just smoke and mirrors

 

[Blueaz]

Shannon Dawson is in his first year as the OC. Neal Brown is the HC at WVU. NCAA’s site hasn’t updated the team offense rankings to include yesterday’s games but here are their rankings.

Houston has the 27th ranked total offense (14th in passing; 78th in rushing).

West Virginia has the 24th ranked total offense (21st in passing; 51st in rushing). WVU just put up 37 on Kansas State.

It seems blatantly obvious to me that our offensive woes here aren’t because of the coordinators.

Yep, one constant in 8 years.


but soooo many here, can’t blame Stoops

 

[john4uk]

According to some UK has one of the top "O"lines in the country,they have three pretty good running backs,and a QB (Gatewood) according to Stoops,with a strong arm,with all of this,why can't they pass the ball downfield,or like last year,rely on a running game?
UK should have or could have won against Auburn,Ole Miss,and Missouri,but with bad calls by officials,bad decisions my the coaches,and not being prepared (Missouri) they lost.Seems like something needs to be fixed.
So were do they start?

 

[EliteBlue]

Probably true but the blame still falls on the coordinators for not doing what they do best. Sorry but if I’m an offensive coordinator and you hire me to do a job I will do it my way or I won’t take the job. If you don’t like my way then don’t hire me, simple as that.

That’s why Neal brown left so quick. From all accounts he wasn’t a yes man and him and Stoops butted heads.

Stoops has his philosophy...and that’s fine...what I don’t understand is why not hire a balanced or power run I formation type OC Instead of air raid spread guys

 

[Chazattack]

That’s why Neal brown left so quick. From all accounts he wasn’t a yes man and him and Stoops butted heads.

It had nothing to do with being offered a HC role?

 

[YaketySax]

Brown left to be a HC. The point of coaching. Dawson was let go, didn't pan out at S Miss, and got rehired by his buddy Dana at Houston.

 

[Girthang]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

I HAD that same hope. Not much of it left. Where the fk has Sawyer Smith been, btw? No way that he's been passed by everyone. Does he just not want to run this offense? Have the coaches shut him down for the season?

Really annoyed right now

 

[bthaunert]

It’s not worked. Until UK comes close to a SEC east title it doesn’t work. Beating the Little Sisters of the Poor with Stoops offense is just smoke and mirrors

In terms of wins and losses, it’s worked at Kentucky. Bear Bryant is the last coach to have a 4 year stretch of combined .500 or better SEC record (one guy cheated to do it). To say it hasn’t worked would be blind to our history imo. 70 years to accomplish that again.

Do I want to be better? Yes. Does something need to change with our offense? Yes. Is his offensive philosophy sustainable without a stud having the ball (Benny and Bowden)? No

The problem is it worked pretty dang good in terms of wins and losses the last 4 years. So, he thinks it’s a way to keep wining. He’s learning that lesson this year....hopefully

 

[bthaunert]

I would argue that it hasn’t really been that successful for Stoops. He still has a losing record for his tenure here. We had a championship level defense in 2018 that won us 10 games. If we had a competent offense it’s fair to wonder if we would’ve won more. We’ve beaten up on lesser teams with the OOC games and some lower level conference teams. The 7 win seasons are padded with 3/4 OOC cupcakes and then Vandy and Missouri.

I want us to take the next step and become a better program. I believe we can. Stoops has shown he’s a good recruiter and will get talent here. I worry that he is own worst enemy. His stubbornness on offense is holding us back.

I’m just going to to put the same response o had to another poster since it applies to you. I 100% agree with your second paragraph:


In terms of wins and losses, it’s worked at Kentucky. Bear Bryant is the last coach to have a 4 year stretch of combined .500 or better SEC record (one guy cheated to do it). To say it hasn’t worked would be blind to our history imo. 70 years to accomplish that again.

Do I want to be better? Yes. Does something need to change with our offense? Yes. Is his offensive philosophy sustainable without a stud having the ball (Benny and Bowden)? No

The problem is it worked pretty dang good in terms of wins and losses the last 4 years. So, he thinks it’s a way to keep wining. He’s learning that lesson this year....hopefully

 

[cats2010]

That’s why Neal brown left so quick. From all accounts he wasn’t a yes man and him and Stoops butted heads.

Stoops has his philosophy...and that’s fine...what I don’t understand is why not hire a balanced or power run I formation type OC Instead of air raid spread guys

probably the tubby “we are gonna run this year” syndrome. Would like to but just not in his dna to pull the trigger. If Gran is being handcuffed then he needs to tell stoops sorry but the offense is mine and I’m going to do things my way to give our offense the best chance to succeed. If stoops doesn’t like it then he can fire him but no way in hell I let someone dictate to me that I have to do my job with one hand tied behind my back. So no matter whose fault it is, gran gets and takes the blame and rightfully so. It’s his offense, and only he can change it.

 

[Roe07]

It’s sad to see how Stoops has wasted a pretty decent overall team because of his stubbornness and or lack of ability to adapt. If I have to watch one more situation at the end of the first half where Stoops shuts it down because he’s scared to try and score I’ll lose my mind. I’ve never seen a coach that refuses to run a two minute offense like he does. I like the dude, but he’s lucky he’s at Kentucky, because the mistakes he consistently makes (and gets by with) get you fired at most schools that we compete against.

This!

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Shannon Dawson is in his first year as the OC. Neal Brown is the HC at WVU. NCAA’s site hasn’t updated the team offense rankings to include yesterday’s games but here are their rankings.

Houston has the 27th ranked total offense (14th in passing; 78th in rushing).

West Virginia has the 24th ranked total offense (21st in passing; 51st in rushing). WVU just put up 37 on Kansas State.

It seems blatantly obvious to me that our offensive woes here aren’t because of the coordinators.

Yeah, if want to put on anyone it should be to Stoops because I can tell you that he is very much in control on the offensive philosophy. His philosophy is to keep it simple and sound and not beat yourself. Give yourself a chance to win at the end of the game. Keep it close, win or lose, good for job security.

A shame because he has one of the best recruiters there is and a couple more that are really good. Not to mention about 5 assistant coaches that are good enough to take that next step in the SEC. He has two of the highest rated QB's coming out of high school, one of the very best offensive lines there is and really good defense.
Would like to see him have the guts to open up the offense and just see if it can be transformed to compete with the better teams better.

Lot of fans are satisfied with the improved recruiting and improved overall play on the field but taking another step up will need a better offensive philosophy so that so much is not put on the O-line every play. They are outnumbered on most plays and how they still do a good job is with so much of the offense not being balanced is impressive.

 

[gobigblue812]

Big 12 = Defensive juggernauts...Same as Conf USA or AAC or whatever conference Houston is in.

 

[23jumpboy]

I HAD that same hope. Not much of it left. Where the fk has Sawyer Smith been, btw? No way that he's been passed by everyone. Does he just not want to run this offense? Have the coaches shut him down for the season?

Really annoyed right now

Good question!

 

[assistbyhawkins]

Big 12 = Defensive juggernauts...Same as Conf USA or AAC or whatever conference Houston is in.

The SEC is not exactly considered a defensive conference these days. Not even close, actually.

 

[CB3UK]

Yeah, I believe Stoops philosophy being pushed on the OCs is the issue, but we've gotta do something.

Just because Stoops wants to control TOP and run more, doesnt explain poor situational play calls, or guys not getting seperation on intermediate routes, QBs not being able to make reads past 1st or 2nd option, or WRs just dropping very catchable balls.

I agree that Stoops has put a "governor " to borrow racing parlance on the offense, but that doesn't explain the ineptitude weve seen on offense. We can play offense Stoops way and still score and look competent. Last year with Lynn is a perfect example.

 

[mrschwump]

According to some UK has one of the top "O"lines in the country,they have three pretty good running backs,and a QB (Gatewood) according to Stoops,with a strong arm,with all of this,why can't they pass the ball downfield,or like last year,rely on a running game?
UK should have or could have won against Auburn,Ole Miss,and Missouri,but with bad calls by officials,bad decisions my the coaches,and not being prepared (Missouri) they lost.Seems like something needs to be fixed.
So were do they start?

Stoops addressed the throwing downfield thing in his post game, go listen to the tape. May not be what people want to hear but he did respond.

 

[dallasg23]

Probably true but the blame still falls on the coordinators for not doing what they do best. Sorry but if I’m an offensive coordinator and you hire me to do a job I will do it my way or I won’t take the job. If you don’t like my way then don’t hire me, simple as that.

As coordinator of the HC says jump, you say how high. No different than any other job with a boss.

 

[NoDef]

It will eventually get to the point where we become regular 6-8 game winners and the fans stay home because the product on the field is not entertaining. College football home schedules are two maybe three games a year you want to watch and the rest just filling out the schedule. Fans will stop coming to those games if we continue to play offense just to run out the clock . The last two weeks has been some of the most boring football that I have watched.

 

[Crums Bald Spot]

Yeah, I believe Stoops philosophy being pushed on the OCs is the issue, but we've gotta do something.

Just because Stoops wants to control TOP and run more, doesnt explain poor situational play calls, or guys not getting seperation on intermediate routes, QBs not being able to make reads past 1st or 2nd option, or WRs just dropping very catchable balls.

I agree that Stoops has put a "governor " to borrow racing parlance on the offense, but that doesn't explain the ineptitude weve seen on offense. We can play offense Stoops way and still score and look competent. Last year with Lynn is a perfect example.

See our former WR coaches tweets. They are not practicing pass oriented drills. It block, block, block, block, bubble screen.

The problem is Stoops.

 

[cats2010]

As coordinator of the HC says jump, you say how high. No different than any other job with a boss.

BS!!!! Head coach may have final say but not without pushback. I’d tell stoops he hired me to run my offense not his. If I’m coaching the offense stay out of my way or fire my ass if you want. When your the OC and you offense looks like shit then you take the blame. I’m not taking the blame for crap if the head coach is handcuffing me. However you look at, this falls on gran. He is either directly responsible or indirectly because he doesn’t have the balls to stand up to stoops!!!

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Yeah, I believe Stoops philosophy being pushed on the OCs is the issue, but we've gotta do something.

Just because Stoops wants to control TOP and run more, doesnt explain poor situational play calls, or guys not getting seperation on intermediate routes, QBs not being able to make reads past 1st or 2nd option, or WRs just dropping very catchable balls.

I agree that Stoops has put a "governor " to borrow racing parlance on the offense, but that doesn't explain the ineptitude weve seen on offense. We can play offense Stoops way and still score and look competent. Last year with Lynn is a perfect example.

I disagree a bit about the WR separation. That isn’t just a decision that we can make or something we can focus on. It doesn’t seem we have the talent to do it. Our best WR, Alli, probably isn’t even going to be getting NFL looks. Maybe a practice squad type of guy. I’m not using the lack of talent as an excuse for Stoops running our offense. We need better talent and the better talent wants to go play for a team that believes in occasionally throwing the ball beyond 10 yards.

 

[CB3UK]

I disagree a bit about the WR separation. That isn’t just a decision that we can make or something we can focus on. It doesn’t seem we have the talent to do it. Our best WR, Alli, probably isn’t even going to be getting NFL looks. Maybe a practice squad type of guy. I’m not using the lack of talent as an excuse for Stoops running our offense. We need better talent and the better talent wants to go play for a team that believes in occasionally throwing the ball beyond 10 yards.

You need to watch other teams with equivalent or lesser talent. There's a litany of examples available where their WRs don't have that issue. There's a reason our last two WR coaches tweeted out the same exact damn thing yesterday......it's our offensive scheme. It's Stoops. It is. It always has been. And until his hand is forced, it will be.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

You need to watch other teams with equivalent or lesser talent. There's a litany of examples available where their WRs don't have that issue. There's a reason our last two WR coaches tweeted out the same exact damn thing yesterday......it's our offensive scheme. It's Stoops. It is. It always has been. And until his hand is forced, it will be.

Fair points. I just don’t want the lack of WR separation being used to defend Stoops running the ball and refusing to try and score. Which I know you weren’t, but others have.

 

[Girthang]

Someone mentioned this to me the other day, and I asked them to elaborate.... They said initially that they've not seen the WRs running deep routes full speed in practice the times they've been paying attention. I didn't think anything of it until I saw this tweet from LT.

I asked them to elaborate. They said they seem to run the routes but mostly for warm up for the QBs. IOW without any DBs there, no jamming at the line, and no full speed out of cuts or from the line/contact.

How THE FK are the QBs going to get their timing down with wideouts if they never run the routes at full speed or in real game simulation? Talk about fkn over your gameplan... As A QB, you NEED that timing off a jam at the line so you don't have to guage their speed in real time. If you jave to guage their speed at the moment, in THE fkn SEC, you're getting hurried, hit, sacked, or hurt.

W.T.F.?

I'm more livid now than I was yesterday. No wonder we can't get SHT going down the field. We'd have bent over some of these teams if we didn't have our heads up our own asses!

 

[dallasg23]

BS!!!! Head coach may have final say but not without pushback. I’d tell stoops he hired me to run my offense not his. If I’m coaching the offense stay out of my way or fire my ass if you want. When your the OC and you offense looks like shit then you take the blame. I’m not taking the blame for crap if the head coach is handcuffing me. However you look at, this falls on gran. He is either directly responsible or indirectly because he doesn’t have the balls to stand up to stoops!!!

And he would fire you.... see Shannon Dawson... he was asked politely to not come back.

 

[thepip]

Of course, If the data is true, it smells of tampering by Stoops. I noticed yesterday that Stoops was in the offensive huddle quite often. Does he trust Gran? If not, then who would he trust?

Woody Hayes

 

[calismyhero]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

Guys we gotta get over this mentality that the next guy up is gonna be the next Tim Couch. Joey Gatewood just started his first game. He’s got to be given time to acclimate to the role. The problem with this offense is the fact that we have receivers who can’t consistently catch the ball and we have other receivers, tight end who can catch it but are just as slow as Christmas. CR is the real deal at RB, our offense needs to adjust to the flow of the game. What we saw out there Saturday was a joke. We saw a head coach playing to not get blown out. That game was all on him.

I personally don’t care if we throw the ball 50 times a game or we run it 50 times but you can’t just sit there and do one or the other to where the defense can pretty much guess what you’re going to do. You will see that against Alabama and Florida. We will lose both games 21-3 or 28-10 and never even be in the game. It’s reminiscent of the Curry era where we would get pounded 73-7. Not as wide a margin but still the same feel for the game.

 

[cats2010]

And he would fire you.... see Shannon Dawson... he was asked politely to not come back.

so be it. I’d rather be fired than to have my reputation ruined as an OC.

 

[GridCats]

With Gran's age he's most likely just wanting a good retirement. Not trying to build up his resume. He'll do what pleases his boss.

 

[trueblujr2]

It’s not tampering, it’s offensive philosophy. Stoops wants to shorten the game, rely on a ball control offense and try and hammer out a low scoring game. It’s worked the past few years. But obviously not working this year.

I do have some hope though because last year, in Sawyer’ 3 starts, we threw the ball over 30 times each game. I think if/when he inserts Beau into that role, he’ll allow Gran to open things up. At least I hope!

It's a good philosophy when you're playing someone like Bama or Georgia. Those aren't teams you want to get into a shootout with. But there needs to be a way to switch on some Tempo and at least have something resembling a two minute offense so when we are in a position like we were at the end of the first half or at times in the second half, we can crank things up and get some bigger gains quickly.

 

[Crums Bald Spot]

so be it. I’d rather be fired than to have my reputation ruined as an OC.

Getting fired in this fraternity is not a good thing. It's much easier to go along with whatever the HC says and leave at the end of the year. The fact that Gran puts up with this tells me he's not an alpha dog and/or he's extremely comfortable and this is his retirement job.

 

[Kommonwealth]

I give Stoops credit for finding a way to be successful when we had limited resources. Our team fights, scraps and has a will to win. Unfortunately, its not a sustainable model as a P5 program but it works here and there. Stoops, Mitch and UK fans have to decide if thats what we want. I don't and I think Stoops wants to be better but he is too scared to take the leap.

Quite frankly, he needs to either let Gran do what he wants or hire a new guy and go all in with it. Its just real talk, but if Im a QB or WR...why would I go to UK?