Oats says no

[LineSkiCat14]

In 2024 it's not. But if you say that here you get nothing but laughing emojis and people telling you you're not a real fan for thinking it. This board simply does not understand the realities of modern day college basketball.

Just have to hope that the pay day is enough to attract someone. That's really our big selling point, we're going to pay you more than just about anyone else.

I think it was time for Cal to go.. probably even last year as well.. but those calling for his job as soon as 2018, 2016 even 2015.. it just wasn't a good look. It was creating expectations that just can't be met realistically.. and other coaches and the entire basketball landscape was sure to see it.

We will probably never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in that 2015 to 2018 range, If Cal didn't start to sour on BBN, and then that feeling just continued to spiral until it became so out of control that here we are going into the 2024 tournament and it's almost like he wanted to lose games to prove a point. Some of the fanatical fans think they are 100% innocent in this, but this so called once-in-a-lifetimejl job, that pays more than anywhere else, is seemingly having trouble attracting even 2nd and 3rd tier coaching talent. Why is that? Coaches don't see to want to deal with coaching here, under this pressure and scrutiny. It is what it is.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

This is just a placeholder statement. If we want Oats, we'll get him

This. Cal told the Memphis fans he wasn't leaving about three days before he left to go to Kentucky.

 

[ck-2]

Won’t take much to be an improvement over what we’ve had.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

So if two or three guys turn us down, that means UK is suddenly less than we thought? Were we lesser in 2007 when Billy D, Jay Wright and numerous others turned us down?

Were we lesser in 1989 when Lute Olsen turned us down?

I think you might need to rethink your point. We've been rejected before, and it had nothing to do with how "coveted" we were.

Places that are coveted just don't get turned down this much. I can't comment on Lute Olsen as I was like 4 then.. but I was around when we got BCG, and how we only got Cal because of his troubles with Memphis.. and all the various coaches that said "thanks but no thanks".

We will see in the coming days. Scott Drew is about the last of the acceptable names we have kicked around and while it won't be a bad hire.. it's still going to leave me with a sense of "why are we getting C hires?"

 

[ukcatz12]

Just have to hope that the pay day is enough to attract someone. That's really our big selling point, we're going to pay you more than just about anyone else.

I think it was time for Cal to go.. probably even last year as well.. but those calling for his job as soon as 2018, 2016 even 2015.. it just wasn't a good look. It was creating expectations that just can't be met realistically.. and other coaches and the entire basketball landscape was sure to see it.

We will probably never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in that 2015 to 2018 range, If Cal didn't start to sour on BBN, and then that feeling just continued to spiral until it became so out of control that here we are going into the 2024 tournament and it's almost like he wanted to lose games to prove a point. Some of the fanatical fans think they are 100% innocent in this, but this so called once-in-a-lifetimejl job, that pays more than anywhere else, is seemingly having trouble attracting even 2nd and 3rd tier coaching talent. Why is that? Coaches don't see to want to deal with coaching here, under this pressure and scrutiny. It is what it is.

Agree with all of this almost 100%. In my eyes after this year was realistically as soon as you could actually fire him. No coach with his first 10 years here would have been fired after 2021, 2022, or 2023 at any blue blood in the country. Coaches like Cal just don't get fired after a few down years, two of which resulted in #2 and #3 seeds. It just wasn't happening.

And when guys like Oats already know he's got the resources at his current school to get the #1 overall seed in the tournament there's not much incentive to leave.

 

[JasonTAlexanderJR]

Wow. So who is left?

 

[permdaddy]

Kyle and Nate are buddies. I would say he's officially off the market.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Just have to hope that the pay day is enough to attract someone. That's really our big selling point, we're going to pay you more than just about anyone else.

I think it was time for Cal to go.. probably even last year as well.. but those calling for his job as soon as 2018, 2016 even 2015.. it just wasn't a good look. It was creating expectations that just can't be met realistically.. and other coaches and the entire basketball landscape was sure to see it.

We will probably never know. But I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in that 2015 to 2018 range, If Cal didn't start to sour on BBN, and then that feeling just continued to spiral until it became so out of control that here we are going into the 2024 tournament and it's almost like he wanted to lose games to prove a point. Some of the fanatical fans think they are 100% innocent in this, but this so called once-in-a-lifetimejl job, that pays more than anywhere else, is seemingly having trouble attracting even 2nd and 3rd tier coaching talent. Why is that? Coaches don't see to want to deal with coaching here, under this pressure and scrutiny. It is what it is.

People have historically written stuff like this, but I'm simply not buying it. We've had five coaches win titles here, and with the exception of Rupp, every coach here was scrutinized with the question of whether or not they could handle the pressure or would even want it.

And then they went out and won titles here. And then the pressure took a few of them out (Hall, Sutton, Smith, BCG) and we still kept winning anyway.

Why is that?

If we're going to be spend time looking in mirrors, we need to look in that one, too.

 

[stereonut]

Times have changed.
Seems we can’t snap our fingers and get just anyone we want.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Places that are coveted just don't get turned down this much. I can't comment on Lute Olsen as I was like 4 then.. but I was around when we got BCG, and how we only got Cal because of his troubles with Memphis.. and all the various coaches that said "thanks but no thanks".

We will see in the coming days. Scott Drew is about the last of the acceptable names we have kicked around and while it won't be a bad hire.. it's still going to leave me with a sense of "why are we getting C hires?"

Curious, what places are coveted?

It has nothing to do with being "coveted" and everything to do with what type of money Kentucky is willing to offer.

 

[KyCPA]

Kentucky isn’t going to get a top hire. They’ll get a good coach. Not a great coach. Coaches who already gave a good thing going, don’t need the pressure of this fan base to run them out after a few years if they don’t make a final 4. It just doesn’t make sense to leave a good situation for that

Final Four? How about a sweet 16....lol

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Agree with all of this almost 100%. In my eyes after this year was realistically as soon as you could actually fire him. No coach with his first 10 years here would have been fired after 2021, 2022, or 2023 at any blue blood in the country. Coaches like Cal just don't get fired after a few down years, two of which resulted in #2 and #3 seeds. It just wasn't happening.

And when guys like Oats already know he's got the resources at his current school to get the #1 overall seed in the tournament there's not much incentive to leave.

There's two incentives to come here:

1. The contract we will give out.
2. And the possible allure of coaching at a storied program. Something that I think only a few select coaches even want.

And let's be real, it's really #1. It's not a wealthy state, it's not a desired city. There's little in the way of local regional recruiting, it's a demanding fanbase, the NIL opportunities are probably lacking for how big our program is, we get no special treatment from the NCAA like Duke and Kansas, our home court provides little advantage, etc.

To those within the state, this is the #1 program destination and everyone is just playing for 2nd.. to college ball fans outside of KY, it's just not.

Now, I think it could get back there.. and man it almost did with Cal if he could have just kept it going a little longer. But we need to make this next coaching hire an A+ especially after the national debacle were going through now.

 

[ukcatz12]

People have historically written stuff like this, but I'm simply not buying it. We've had five coaches win titles here, and with the exception of Rupp, every coach here was scrutinized with the question of whether or not they could handle the pressure or would even want it.

And then they went out and won titles here. And then the pressure took a few of them out (Hall, Sutton, Smith, BCG) and we still kept winning anyway.

Why is that?

If we're going to be spend time looking in mirrors, we need to look in that one, too.

What you all forget is four of those five coaches won those titles 25 or more years ago. Outside of a five year run with Cal this program has been barely above average over the last 25 years. "It's Kentucky" doesn't win games by itself and it hasn't for decades. When guys like Drew can win titles at Baylor or guys like Oats can get #1 overall seeds at Bama there's no reason to come here. They've proven they can win at less prestigious programs in environments with less pressure.

It's just not the '70s or '90s anymore and program prestige means less than it ever has.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Curious, what places are coveted?

It has nothing to do with being "coveted" and everything to do with what type of money Kentucky is willing to offer.

Yeah I think the pay day is the big thing. But I believe Duke and UNC would he more desired. Uconn is clearly above us unless Hurley surprises us. And I just don't think every great coach is going to pass up 5 mil at a place like Florida to come make 9mil at UK and deal with what comes with the job. I think we're finding that the pay day and our glorious past isn't quite carrying us all that well today.

I mean we will see in a few days with who we hire. That's going to tell us a lot about the state of the program and where we are headed.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Kentucky isn’t going to get a top hire. They’ll get a good coach. Not a great coach. Coaches who already gave a good thing going, don’t need the pressure of this fan base to run them out after a few years if they don’t make a final 4. It just doesn’t make sense to leave a good situation for that

So the great coach, good coach, drunk coach pattern still would be in play. The next one is going to be fun lol.

 

[ukcatz12]

To those within the state, this is the #1 program destination and everyone is just playing for 2nd.. to college ball fans outside of KY, it's just not.

I honestly wonder if you and I see this and others here don't because we live in the northeast and are able to view the program through more objective eyes.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

What you all forget is four of those five coaches won those titles 25 or more years ago. Outside of a five year run with Cal this program has been barely above average over the last 25 years. "It's Kentucky" doesn't win games by itself and it hasn't for decades. When guys like Drew can win titles at Baylor or guys like Oats can get #1 overall seeds at Bama there's no reason to come here. They've proven they can win at less prestigious programs in environments with less pressure.

It's just not the '70s or '90s anymore and program prestige means less than it ever has.

Exactly. It's just a different time. I don't think this sport is about 4 or 5 teams anymore, back in an age where just a few schools can dominate the landscape.

 

[Mash 2.4]

That's it exactly! It's one of the reasons Barnhart didn’t want to fire him now.

UK fans have cranked the pressure here up to an 11, and big names just aren't interested in dealing with it when they already have a good thing in place elsewhere.

I fear we are in for a rude awakening over the coming days.

What pressure? Cal has won one tournament game in 5 Years and wasn’t gonna be fired.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Yeah I think the pay day is the big thing. But I believe Duke and UNC would he more desired. Uconn is clearly above us unless Hurley surprises us. And I just don't think every great coach is going to pass up 5 mil at a place like Florida to come make 9mil at UK and deal with what comes with the job. I think we're finding that the pay day and our glorious past isn't quite carrying us all that well today.

I mean we will see in a few days with who we hire. That's going to tell us a lot about the state of the program and where we are headed.

It's amazing that you would degrade UK below UNC status. What heavyweights were they able to hire when Roy stepped down? Did Wright, or Stevens, or Donovan want to go there?

No. They ended up with a guy who never coached a program before.

 

[bigbluedon]

Kentucky isn’t going to get a top hire. They’ll get a good coach. Not a great coach. Coaches who already gave a good thing going, don’t need the pressure of this fan base to run them out after a few years if they don’t make a final 4. It just doesn’t make sense to leave a good situation for that

We haven’t been to a final 4 since 2015. That is more than a few years. There are no great coaches out there any more. All but Pitino have retired. We will get someone good.

 

[ukcatz12]

It's amazing that you would degrade UK below UNC status. What heavyweights were they able to hire when Roy stepped down? Did Wright, or Stevens, or Donovan want to go there?

No. They ended up with a guy who never coached a program before.

You act like they didn't choose that route. They had time to plan a succession plan and decided that was the best choice because it maintained program continuity and Hubert learned for years under Roy.

And yes, sorry to break it to you but UNC is a better program than UK right now. They have three times as many titles as we do in this century. You all gotta stop acting like UK is some religious institution that can't be critiqued and look at things rationally from an outsider's prospective.

 

[catben]

For starters did UK contact Oats...I haven't heard a word that we did so Nate Oats can't decline a job he was never offered to begin with.

$18 million buy out. How realistic was this anyway?

This tells me that Mitch was NEVER going to actually hire Oats. These statements are put out to make the coach's current team appreciate him even more because of his perceived loyalty.

Not saying I agree with Oats not being an option, but It's not that hard to figure out. Mitch better come through with a winner if he isn't going after who the fans want.

 

[ukcatz12]

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

What you all forget is four of those five coaches won those titles 25 or more years ago. Outside of a five year run with Cal this program has been barely above average over the last 25 years. "It's Kentucky" doesn't win games by itself and it hasn't for decades. When guys like Drew can win titles at Baylor or guys like Oats can get #1 overall seeds at Bama there's no reason to come here. They've proven they can win at less prestigious programs in environments with less pressure.

It's just not the '70s or '90s anymore and program prestige means less than it ever has.

Weak argument.

Guys like Jim Valvano and Rollie Massimino were winning titles at places like NC State and Villanova 40 years ago.

There's always been other lesser programs winning. Kentucky and the other bluebloods are different because they keep doing it.

But it's cool that you guys keep demeaning the program you claim to love. You've been doing a great job at it since you created an account.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

It's amazing that you would degrade UK below UNC status. What heavyweights were they able to hire when Roy stepped down? Did Wright, or Stevens, or Donovan want to go there?

No. They ended up with a guy who never coached a program before.

UNC is an NCAA darling. They can claim the Jordan brand. They ARE the nation's Yankees/Cowboys along with Duke. It's a much more desirable area to be in and I have to imagine, all things equal, they have more NIL opportunities, as we're finding out ours might not be so great, in one of the poorest states in the country.

This isn't to say I think UNC is better than us as a basketball program.

Did they ever even try for those guys? They seemingly were fine going with Hubert Davis unless I missed something.

 

[Irish Beck]

What exactly did Nate Oats say no to? Did he personally tell Mitch no on the phone? Did he tell our boosters through back doors he wasn't interested?

Pretty easy to say no if Mitch called his buddy and offered him the job without actually pursuing other options.

 

[Irish Beck]

Duke/UNC are not comparable to UK or any other blue blood for that matter because of some bizarre fraternal order they insist on using. It's been a godsend once (Roy) but may bite them (Guthridge, Doherty, maybe Hubert?).

Scheyer can recruit, but can he coach?

 

[ABLCommenter]

It’s gonna be Golden or Drew. How does the golden extension affect this?

 

[bnewt]

Duke/UNC are not comparable to UK or any other blue blood for that matter because of some bizarre fraternal order they insist on using. It's been a godsend once (Roy) but may bite them (Guthridge, Doherty, maybe Hubert?).

Scheyer can recruit, but can he coach?

He has out coached ccc so far

 

[LineSkiCat14]

It's amazing that you would degrade UK below UNC status. What heavyweights were they able to hire when Roy stepped down? Did Wright, or Stevens, or Donovan want to go there?

No. They ended up with a guy who never coached a program before.

Here's my counter though.. what makes Kentucky above UNC as a top job to you? We have more history, we have a larger, but more concentrated fanbase, and we seemingly will pay an extra 15 to 20% more and UNC. Aside from that last one, I don't know what we have above them that would sway someone like Nate Oats to us over them.

 

[Irish Beck]

It’s gonna be Golden or Drew. How does the golden extension affect this?

Golden as in the University of Florida's Todd Golden? It absolutely won't be him. There are 15 more guys that get that call first.

 

[Wildcats1st]

View embedded media

Where did he say no?

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

You act like they didn't choose that route. They had time to plan a succession plan and decided that was the best choice because it maintained program continuity and Hubert learned for years under Roy.

And yes, sorry to break it to you but UNC is a better program than UK right now. They have three times as many titles as we do in this century. You all gotta stop acting like UK is some religious institution that can't be critiqued and look at things rationally from an outsider's prospective.

You're a contradiction of a fan. You defended Cal for years by saying his performance here was adequate, and then critiqued the program as lesser than UNC, primarily based on that same "adequate" performance that was the principle reason for you claiming UNC passed us.

You might want to work that out. Right now, your arguments are hilariously contradictory, and weak.

 

[Irish Beck]

He has out coached ccc so far

Do you really want to list the number of coaches that beat Cal in the past five years? That isn't some accomplishment. He's been extremely mediocre.

What makes UK better than UNC/DUKE or any other Blueblood program is actual longevity. Duke is a monolith. UNC is two monoliths. Kentucky is a behemoth. Richer tradition, longer staying power, supreme relevance on the most important stage for today recruits and an abundance of resources for basketball specifically.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Here's my counter though.. what makes Kentucky above UNC as a top job to you? We have more history, we have a larger, but more concentrated fanbase, and we seemingly will pay an extra 15 to 20% more and UNC. Aside from that last one, I don't know what we have above them that would sway someone like Nate Oats to us over them.

You could have started and stopped your argument with the financial reasons.

 

[Jakerz]

Before I’d take Drew I’d bring in Pitino as an interim

 

[LineSkiCat14]

You could have started and stopped your argument with the financial reasons.

Maybe, we will see. I don't think a 20% raise moves the needle like we think.

If we hire Scott Drew then I think ill have proven my point. Not a bad hire. But it's a B guy for a AAA program.

 

[Irish Beck]

Maybe, we will see. I don't think a 20% raise moves the needle like we think.

If we hire Scott Drew then I think ill have proven my point. Not a bad hire. But it's a B guy for a AAA program.

If we hire Drew we didn't try to hire anyone else. Knowing his relationship with Mitch, this was done years ago and just needed Cal to move on/retire to be done.

Mitch likely rides off into the sunset soon too so he likely doesn't care about it being a "legacy" hire.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Maybe, we will see. I don't think a 20% raise moves the needle like we think.

If we hire Scott Drew then I think ill have proven my point. Not a bad hire. But it's a B guy for a AAA program.

Your point would be proven if not for the obstruction named Mitch Barnhart. You keep leaving that point out of all of this.

He's the same guy who hired Billy Clyde. He lacks innovation, and he's had a man crush on Drew for years.

His potential mismanagement of this hiring process doesn't exactly point to Kentucky having taken a back seat as much as it screams of having an AD who lacks guts.

 

[ukcatz12]

But it's cool that you guys keep demeaning the program you claim to love. You've been doing a great job at it since you created an account.

This account is 15 years old and made when I was attending UK. I remember after we lost to Oakland when I said Cal wouldn't be fired and you told me to shut up, no one wanted to hear my "bloviating" or whatever pseudo intellectual word you used to mock what I said. I didn't say that because I wanted Cal back, I just thought that was the reality around the situation. Guess I wasn't wrong, now was I?

But sure, keep dismissing anything that doesn't put UK at the absolute center of the basketball world.