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Next Years Class

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sk73

Junior
Feb 16, 2013
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Sunday morning boredom setting in. So here goes.

My attention currently is on this season and this team. Looking to next year, there is a lot to be excited about. I know, I know, it seems it is always wait until next year. Our potential and, realistic roster for next year is, on paper, great.

Position 4-5
Lance Ware
Ugonna
Collins
Bradshaw
It is only those four. Every player will have game minutes on a nightly basis. Is it enough to make the three returnees want to stay. I think so. I consider those 4 to be as strong and as deep as any team we have had in a long time, at those positions. Experience, athleticism and a talented newcomer. Grade A

3 Position
Chris Livingston
Justin Edwards
Livingston has blossomed over the last 2 weeks and I think he will continue the upward climb. I do not think Livingston will try to move on to the NBA. Both players bring tremendous strength to that position. Grade A

Guards 1 and 2 position
Adou Thiero , also play 3 or 4.
Reed Shephard
Rob Dillingham
D.J. Wagner
This is potentially a super group of guards. After a few games I fully believe this group can be talked about like earlier teams we have had. Only concern is consistent outside shooting. (Hopefully) that will end up a strength. Grade A-

Unknowns
Antonio Reeves
C.J
I am doubtful that we get either one of these guys back. It would be great to have them, especially Reeves. Reeves may take his chance at being drafted or maybe, just decide to go overseas. C.J. turns 24 soon. I am not sure where his mind is about playing.
If both come back, we are set. If both leave, we will need to pick up a player or two.

Oscar, Toppin and Wheeler are gone. I see no chance of any of them staying. Some of you may know more about that or just differ with me.

I think Cal has assembled a great, competitive group. Again while my focus is on this years team, I am feeling very good about next year.
 
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sk73 said:
Sunday morning boredom setting in. So here goes.

My attention currently is on this season and this team. Looking to next year, there is a lot to be excited about. I know, I know, it seems it is always wait until next year. Our potential and, realistic roster for next year is, on paper, great.

Position 4-5
Lance Ware
Ugonna
Collins
Bradshaw
It is only those four. Every player will have game minutes on a nightly basis. Is it enough to make the three returnees want to stay. I think so. I consider those 4 to be as strong and as deep as any team we have had in a long time, at those positions. Experience, athleticism and a talented newcomer. Grade A

3 Position
Chris Livingston
Justin Edwards
Livingston has blossomed over the last 2 weeks and I think he will continue the upward climb. I do not think Livingston will try to move on to the NBA. Both players bring tremendous strength to that position. Grade A

Guards 1 and 2 position
Adou Thiero , also play 3 or 4.
Reed Shephard
Rob Dillingham
D.J. Wagner
This is potentially a super group of guards. After a few games I fully believe this group can be talked about like earlier teams we have had. Only concern is consistent outside shooting. (Hopefully) that will end up a strength. Grade A-

Unknowns
Antonio Reeves
C.J
I am doubtful that we get either one of these guys back. It would be great to have them, especially Reeves. Reeves may take his chance at being drafted or maybe, just decide to go overseas. C.J. turns 24 soon. I am not sure where his mind is about playing.
If both come back, we are set. If both leave, we will need to pick up a player or two.

Oscar, Toppin and Wheeler are gone. I see no chance of any of them staying. Some of you may know more about that or just differ with me.

I think Cal has assembled a great, competitive group. Again while my focus is on this years team, I am feeling very good about next year.
Click to expand...
Way out in left field with the 4-5..we will go as far as guards take us next year but we lack shooting again. If Cal allows them to play fast paste, we could be really good. If not, we will shoot ourselves out of most games. We better hope a fee key people stick around because our freshman group can’t win consistently if they are getting the bulk of the minutes.
 
cats2010 said:
Giving the group of ware, Collins, ugonna and Bradshaw an A? Can’t read anymore past that, That’s a C group at best and that’s with Bradshaw performing at a better than expected level for his freshman campaign.
Click to expand...
Name a team next year with better depth at the 4 and 5 positions.
 
sk73 said:
Name a team next year with better depth at the 4 and 5 positions.
Click to expand...
Not going to look up other teams but not going to be hard to find 4-5 positions from other teams that are returning more production from those two spots than we are. 3 returnees collectively have averaged 6.94 rebounds and 6.89 points per game over their combined 6 years. Bradshaw is unknown at this time what he will bring. So we have 4 players that have very little proven production at the collegiate level. In no format does that grade out to an A.
 
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We better hope we get Oscar back for our front court. All of those other guys are unproven. I love Ugonna’s potential, especially on defense. However, he may still be limited offensively. Just don’t trust that group. I know people are hoping Oscar moves on. I’m not one of those people.
 
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Cj is a candid to give up basketball altogether. Reeves is a possibility. Remember, the ncaa just tightened up the transfer rule , where you basically can’t do it twice…so it’s pro or stay for Reeves . Livingston could transfer or go pro
 
cats2010 said:
Not going to look up other teams but not going to be hard to find 4-5 positions from other teams that are returning more production from those two spots than we are. 3 returnees collectively have averaged 6.94 rebounds and 6.89 points per game over their combined 6 years. Bradshaw is unknown at this time what he will bring. So we have 4 players that have very little proven production at the collegiate level. In no format does that grade out to an A.
Click to expand...
My grading system is obviously fairly lenient. I am quite content with those 4 guys for next year. I do think they will grade out to be an A by this time next year.
 
Normally I'd say guys like Oscar Reeves and CJ would be gone.. but they really could get a nice pay day by staying.

I hope Livingston and Ugonna stay.

Give me some combination of those 5, along with the recruits, and I'm ready to roll with that.
 
sk73 said:
My grading system is obviously fairly lenient. I am quite content with those 4 guys for next year. I do think they will grade out to be an A by this time next year.
Click to expand...
Collins probably leaves

Ware is a very likable player, but a backup only. May transfer for more playing time

Uno looks to have potential but since COW promised him playing time, he has not received any. Think he will stay but may be fed up with his lying coach and transfer also

Bradshaw is an unknown commodity. How many big men did he play against in high school?

Even if all return, none are SEC starters at this point in their careers and with Bradshaw you cannot count on him being an SEC caliber starter as a freshman. I think they are good kids but could not rate them higher than a “D” going into next year. Need Oscar to return!
 
Kyhoward said:
Collins probably leaves

Ware is a very likable player, but a backup only. May transfer for more playing time

Uno looks to have potential but since COW promised him playing time, he has not received any. Think he will stay but may be fed up with his lying coach and transfer also

Bradshaw is an unknown commodity. How many big men did he play against in high school?

Even if all return, none are SEC starters at this point in their careers and with Bradshaw you cannot count on him being an SEC caliber starter as a freshman. I think they are good kids but could not rate them higher than a “D” going into next year. Need Oscar to return!
Click to expand...
Disagree on all counts and time will tell.
No reason for Collins to leave. I cant see him doing that unless, due to his fathers death, moves closer to home.
Ware is valuable to us and seems happy. I do not see him leaving.
Ugonna is going to be special. He knew coming in that his playing time would be limited. After one year of everyday practice, I think he will be more than ready to go. No one lied to him about his playing time. That is just shit you throw out to gripe about Cal. You lied about that.
Bradshaw played against every ranked big man in the country thru an expanded HS schedule for the last two years and the AAU cycle. I dont expect KAT but more of a Nick Richards with an outside shot. I like my forecast much more than yours.
 
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A week left in THIS season. I hope our guys aren't spending Sunday a.m. thinking about next year. Haha

As to the topic, in today's college basketball free agent landscape, the chances of our roster not having AT LEAST 2-3 transfers (in and out) is 0%. Truthfully, this is an after-the-season topic. I'm more interested in how we can play these guys, this many minutes, and still be at our best. And what affect it has on current chemistry when both CJ and Wheeler are game ready.
 
sk73 said:
Disagree on all counts and time will tell.
No reason for Collins to leave. I cant see him doing that unless, due to his fathers death, moves closer to home.
Ware is valuable to us and seems happy. I do not see him leaving.
Ugonna is going to be special. He knew coming in that his playing time would be limited. After one year of everyday practice, I think he will be more than ready to go. No one lied to him about his playing time. That is just shit you throw out to gripe about Cal. You lied about that.
Bradshaw played against every ranked big man in the country thru an expanded HS schedule for the last two years and the AAU cycle. I dont expect KAT but more of a Nick Richards with an outside shot. I like my forecast much more than yours.
Click to expand...
Just gave my opinion, if you disagree fine, don't get upset.

I am a Christian man and don't appreciate you calling me a liar or characterizing me for just throwing out stuff to gripe about COW.

There are many intelligent posters on this site and I am going to choose to converse with them as they will not give me unwarranted backlash but may disagree with my opinion from time to time. That is fine.

How do you send a post to a person you don't know and think it is ok to call him a liar? Pray you will find the Lord sir. However, I will not be responding and receiving any more of your posts.
 
Kyhoward said:
Just gave my opinion, if you disagree fine, don't get upset.

I am a Christian man and don't appreciate you calling me a liar or characterizing me for just throwing out stuff to gripe about COW.

There are many intelligent posters on this site and I am going to choose to converse with them as they will not give me unwarranted backlash but may disagree with my opinion from time to time. That is fine.

How do you send a post to a person you don't know and think it is ok to call him a liar? Pray you will find the Lord sir. However, I will not be responding and receiving any more of your posts.
Click to expand...
Reread your post.
You said that Ugonna was promised playing time if he signed. False...From the beginning, it was known, it was reported, that this was a developmental year for him. No mystery, no promises made. You then said Ugonna would leave because of COW lying to him. So, you make stuff up, called Cal a liar and then pull the Christian card because I called you a liar. Go figure.
 
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Kyhoward said:
Just gave my opinion, if you disagree fine, don't get upset.

I am a Christian man and don't appreciate you calling me a liar or characterizing me for just throwing out stuff to gripe about COW.

There are many intelligent posters on this site and I am going to choose to converse with them as they will not give me unwarranted backlash but may disagree with my opinion from time to time. That is fine.

How do you send a post to a person you don't know and think it is ok to call him a liar? Pray you will find the Lord sir. However, I will not be responding and receiving any more of your posts.
Click to expand...
You said things that were untruthful, so I brought it to your attention. We do not have to go to great lengths to appease each other. If you do not want people in general questioning your posts, then be truthful. Pretty simple. Go Cats.
 
cats2010 said:
Giving the group of ware, Collins, ugonna and Bradshaw an A? Can’t read anymore past that, That’s a C group at best and that’s with Bradshaw performing at a better than expected level for his freshman campaign.
Click to expand...
Onyenso will be a solid B at C. Bradshaw will be his backup.

Also I think Livingston and Edwards will be our 3 and 4, both being 3.5 type players playing together interchangeably.
 
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JonathanW said:
Onyenso will be a solid B at C. Bradshaw will be his backup.

Also I think Livingston and Edwards will be our 3 and 4, both being 3.5 type players playing together interchangeably.
Click to expand...
What is your justification for giving Onyenso any type of good grade at this stage? He is totally unknown and during his limited minutes he did see in games against P5 competition he did not look all that good at all. Not saying he has no chance to be good next year but to declare him a B at this stage is completely without merit.
 
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cats2010 said:
What is your justification for giving Onyenso any type of good grade at this stage? He is totally unknown and during his limited minutes he did see in games against P5 competition he did not look all that good at all. Not saying he has no chance to be good next year but to declare him a B at this stage is completely without merit.
Click to expand...
I don't think he looked bad vs P5 competition (30min). Compared to the reigning NPOY, yeah he's WAY BEHIND. Not good, but not bad. Vs non-P5 (80min) he has looked extremely good, and I would say the non-P5 competition is at least as good (likely better than) as the average competition Bradshaw has played against this winter.
His per40min Stats:
vs P5: 8pt, 9.3reb, 1.3blk
vs nonP5: 17pt, 17.5reb, 7.5blk

UKO has shown he has some touch, and very good shot blocking instincts.
I'm concerned we may get from Bradshaw what Duke got from Lively this year, what we got from Skal. Yeah if you stick with him, after 25 games he may start earning his keep. But the experience UKO got this year is invaluable.
What is your justification for giving Bradshaw a higher grade? Because he is top 5 in a WEAK CLASS?

But yeah, Bradshaw could start. Collins even could, it's really hard to estimate how much of his performance this year was a result of the shock he had at the start of the season vs just not being ready yet.

Again, "Starting" is way overrated. What matters is minutes!!! I almost give all 3 an equal chance at starting or playing the most minutes there.
 
JonathanW said:
I don't think he looked bad vs P5 competition (30min). Compared to the reigning NPOY, yeah he's WAY BEHIND. Not good, but not bad. Vs non-P5 (80min) he has looked extremely good, and I would say the non-P5 competition is at least as good (likely better than) as the average competition Bradshaw has played against this winter.
His per40min Stats:
vs P5: 8pt, 9.3reb, 1.3blk
vs nonP5: 17pt, 17.5reb, 7.5blk

UKO has shown he has some touch, and very good shot blocking instincts.
I'm concerned we may get from Bradshaw what Duke got from Lively this year, what we got from Skal. Yeah if you stick with him, after 25 games he may start earning his keep. But the experience UKO got this year is invaluable.
What is your justification for giving Bradshaw a higher grade? Because he is top 5 in a WEAK CLASS?

But yeah, Bradshaw could start. Collins even could, it's really hard to estimate how much of his performance this year was a result of the shock he had at the start of the season vs just not being ready yet.

Again, "Starting" is way overrated. What matters is minutes!!! I almost give all 3 an equal chance at starting or playing the most minutes there.
Click to expand...
I didn’t give Bradshaw a grade of any kind. I gave the group as a whole a C at best and that was assuming Bradshaw performs at a better than expected level as a freshmen so I obviously don’t think he’s grading out well at all. Can’t project 40 min per stats for Onyenso with his extremely limited action he has seen. I hope he does well but he has a lot of things to improve on and his footwork being one of them.
 
Kyhoward said:
Just gave my opinion, if you disagree fine, don't get upset.

I am a Christian man and don't appreciate you calling me a liar or characterizing me for just throwing out stuff to gripe about COW.

There are many intelligent posters on this site and I am going to choose to converse with them as they will not give me unwarranted backlash but may disagree with my opinion from time to time. That is fine.

How do you send a post to a person you don't know and think it is ok to call him a liar? Pray you will find the Lord sir. However, I will not be responding and receiving any more of your posts.
Click to expand...
Not being Rude but if you remember Ugonna came here and stated he was going the redshirt. Really think he is planning on getting better. Adou should be getting a little more clock. I hope he grows and just gets better.
 
sk73 said:
Sunday morning boredom setting in. So here goes.

My attention currently is on this season and this team. Looking to next year, there is a lot to be excited about. I know, I know, it seems it is always wait until next year. Our potential and, realistic roster for next year is, on paper, great.

Position 4-5
Lance Ware
Ugonna
Collins
Bradshaw
It is only those four. Every player will have game minutes on a nightly basis. Is it enough to make the three returnees want to stay. I think so. I consider those 4 to be as strong and as deep as any team we have had in a long time, at those positions. Experience, athleticism and a talented newcomer. Grade A

3 Position
Chris Livingston
Justin Edwards
Livingston has blossomed over the last 2 weeks and I think he will continue the upward climb. I do not think Livingston will try to move on to the NBA. Both players bring tremendous strength to that position. Grade A

Guards 1 and 2 position
Adou Thiero , also play 3 or 4.
Reed Shephard
Rob Dillingham
D.J. Wagner
This is potentially a super group of guards. After a few games I fully believe this group can be talked about like earlier teams we have had. Only concern is consistent outside shooting. (Hopefully) that will end up a strength. Grade A-

Unknowns
Antonio Reeves
C.J
I am doubtful that we get either one of these guys back. It would be great to have them, especially Reeves. Reeves may take his chance at being drafted or maybe, just decide to go overseas. C.J. turns 24 soon. I am not sure where his mind is about playing.
If both come back, we are set. If both leave, we will need to pick up a player or two.

Oscar, Toppin and Wheeler are gone. I see no chance of any of them staying. Some of you may know more about that or just differ with me.

I think Cal has assembled a great, competitive group. Again while my focus is on this years team, I am feeling very good about next year.
Click to expand...
That’s a pretty rough 4-5. Not sure what you’re seeing. But the 3 current big we have now that’s on that list aren’t very good at all. And who’s to say Bradshaw will be good. Not enthusiastic about that group
 
HalHR2500 said:
For the 4-5 position

Bradshaw is the best of that bunch

By Far
Click to expand...
depends on what you mean by best. I think Bradshaw appears more skilled, but if Ugonna is the better shot blocker, screener, rebounder then i might rather him play more minutes. If we have DJ, Rob, Livinston, and Edwards around them I think interior defense may be the priority.
 
Catluv said:
Not being Rude but if you remember Ugonna came here and stated he was going the redshirt. Really think he is planning on getting better. Adou should be getting a little more clock. I hope he grows and just gets better.
Click to expand...
I think he will. But he wasted a year of eligibility for a handful of playing time minutes this year. Really think he and Adou could have could have been contributors by now had CCC gave them some playing time earlier.
 
CincinnatiWildcat said:
depends on what you mean by best. I think Bradshaw appears more skilled, but if Ugonna is the better shot blocker, screener, rebounder then i might rather him play more minutes. If we have DJ, Rob, Livinston, and Edwards around them I think interior defense may be the priority.
Click to expand...
What do you think about Ugonna's shot blocking this season? To me he has been frequently late getting off the floor on block attempts. Would you agree; and, if so, do you think the coaches might have been emphasizing that he stay down so that he learns not to bite too often on head fakes?
 
cats2010 said:
Giving the group of ware, Collins, ugonna and Bradshaw an A? Can’t read anymore past that, That’s a C group at best and that’s with Bradshaw performing at a better than expected level for his freshman campaign.
Click to expand...
Yeah an A there is beyond optimism, it's delusion. I love Ware but he's a 8th/9th man sort of player. Collins has shown nothing in 2 seasons to make you think he's a "grade A" player. Ugonna is a project. And Bradshaw is an unknown skinny freshman.
 
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Kyhoward said:
I think he will. But he wasted a year of eligibility for a handful of playing time minutes this year. Really think he and Adou could have could have been contributors by now had CCC gave them some playing time earlier.
Click to expand...


I don't believe being in a collegiate program is a waste. Also, I don't see him staying 4 full years in college so it's a year of development in high school vs. a hypothetical senior year.
 
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I like you ratings and believe we can be really good next year.

However, your 4-5 rating is a bit off because Edwards will be starting at 3 and Livingston at 4

I think the rotation will be:
Wagner - Dillingham
Reeves/CJ - Thiero/Shepherd
Edwards - Thiero/Livingston
Livingston - Collins
Bradshaw - Ugonna / Ware

That is a good college hoops squad. I only think we get one of CJ or Reeves back. Get them both and that's even better
 
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AGEE11 said:
I like you ratings and believe we can be really good next year.

However, your 4-5 rating is a bit off because Edwards will be starting at 3 and Livingston at 4

I think the rotation will be:
Wagner - Dillingham
Reeves/CJ - Thiero/Shepherd
Edwards - Thiero/Livingston
Livingston - Collins
Bradshaw - Ugonna / Ware

That is a good college hoops squad. I only think we get one of CJ or Reeves back. Get them both and that's even better
Click to expand...
I like your projected team's potential next year. I hope you're right about Livingston coming back and playing the PF spot (maybe just say you're playing two SFs, or 3 2Gs, or whatever else makes Livingston or "his people" happy). But I think the Center position is potentially a little weak - but as a group maybe it'll be fine.
 
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