New Defensive Mindset

[AzubuikeandFitch]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

 

[bnewt]

Maybe some gimmick defenses like Dale Brown used to use.....trapping, double teaming inside, different zones

 

[rolaid]

I agree we all know we’re slow if foot but why not trap ball screens and any passes to the post ?
This passive ball line defense where we put no pressure and allow the other team to do whatever only worked at UT they missed 34 threes

 

[CatsFanIL]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

It's a fine thought, but at this point in the season, you just can't tell the guys, "hey we're playing some of the best teams in the nation, just go take the ball from them". Doesn't work like that. Finding moments where you can try to drum up a trap or extra pressure, say out of a timeout or after a made FT, that could work.

But our roster isn't built like Ole Miss (and others) where speed, length, physicality, etc is abundant. It's really, really challenging to turn really good teams over. Not just from a coaching standpoint, but from building a roster too.

 

[ManitouDan]

Doing what we are doing every game is the very definition of insanity . For a guy driven by numbers I’m sure Pope sees this , totally benching Brea helps IMO , he’s not really a help on O and he’s non existent on D . Try someone else , and quit subbing as much . Running Noah out there at the 16 min mark after not playing him any the previous game at home reeked of desperation!!

 

[chroix]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

I like this approach particularly if you are focusing on tips and deflections rather than outright steals. Gambling on defense only pays off for the quickest defenders and even then it’s iffy. How many times did Hagans go for a steal only to give up a drive? Definitely more than a few times.

 

[chroix]

Doing what we are doing every game is the very definition of insanity . For a guy driven by numbers I’m sure Pope sees this , totally benching Brea helps IMO , he’s not really a help on O and he’s non existent on D . Try someone else , and quit subbing as much . Running Noah out there at the 16 min mark after not playing him any the previous game at home reeked of desperation!!

He’s struggling and searching for the right combos so I’ll at least give him credit for trying to work his way out of it.

 

[Kybluedude]

Got to become a good zone team and stick with it for more than one possession.
We get killed in m to m off the iso dribble.

 

[EliteBlue]

The way we played in the second half is how I see us needing to play.

3-2, 2-3, 2-1-2 are the simplist zones with the least rotational responsibilities. Right now we are giving up easy 2s and easy 3s. With us being slow footed and lacking ball pressure, I’d like to see us pack a 3-2 and mix it w an 2-1-2 if we aren’t rotating efficiently to take the middle away, and let them bomb away. Sure, if they hit 30 3s then you’re likely getting beat. But as efficient as we are offensively, we can out score teams if we get enough stops to keep the game in the 80s. Just have to steal enough possessions and the majority of teams can’t hit 20 3s with mild pressure

 

[ImTheVillageIdiot]

We tried untelling how many different defenses yesterday and none of them worked. I agree that I would like to be more aggressive defensively but only Oweh looks capable of getting a steal so even that doesn’t look to be a good answer either. I’m beginning to wonder if we are going to be capable of winning five more without Lamont.

 

[EliteBlue]

We tried untelling how many different defenses yesterday and none of them worked. I agree that I would like to be more aggressive defensively but only Oweh looks capable of getting a steal so even that doesn’t look to be a good answer either. I’m beginning to wonder if we are going to be capable of winning five more without Lamont.

It’s easy to feel that way but we won the second half by double digits (the last 15 minutes) once we played a 3-2 off made baskets.

 

[chasingwildcat]

I agree we all know we’re slow if foot but why not trap ball screens and any passes to the post ?
This passive ball line defense where we put no pressure and allow the other team to do whatever only worked at UT they missed 34 threes

Also should be noted that in that UT game, Brea almost made all shots, and we barely won 3 with UT extremely cold, that was a miracle. Brea is hot garbage in most sec games

UT would beat us 8-9 times when we play ten ganes.

 

[ManitouDan]

be honest .. you can teach 8th graders to play 2 zone D's , a 2-3 and a 1-3-1. .. it's not hard , just have to have players willing to bust ass to cover their areas .... I about had a fit last night the one possession we went 1-3-1 , mentioned it in the game thread .... A Williams was the baseline guy in the 1-3-1 .. the Baseline covers corner to corner . Thats the way it works -- Right ? Hell they swing the ball to the corner and A Williams isnt in the area code .. he's standing in the middle of the paint . Thats the wing guys area , ball goes to corner the WING opposite that corner drops and helps the guy playing the middle cover the paint . Amari didnt move . Guy was lonely wide open .

 

[Creed Bratton]

I like this approach particularly if you are focusing on tips and deflections rather than outright steals. Gambling on defense only pays off for the quickest defenders and even then it’s iffy. How many times did Hagans go for a steal only to give up a drive? Definitely more than a few times.

I agree on Hagans. A lot of people looked at his steals and thought he was a great defender but he gambled a lot and jumped into passing lanes to get those steals. He wasn't that great of a defender when it came to staying in front of his man.

 

[canebreak]

It's a fine thought, but at this point in the season, you just can't tell the guys, "hey we're playing some of the best teams in the nation, just go take the ball from them". Doesn't work like that. Finding moments where you can try to drum up a trap or extra pressure, say out of a timeout or after a made FT, that could work.

But our roster isn't built like Ole Miss (and others) where speed, length, physicality, etc is abundant. It's really, really challenging to turn really good teams over. Not just from a coaching standpoint, but from building a roster too.

Ole Miss does not have any length

 

[The_Answer1313]

Some coaches prioritize forcing turnovers on defense.........others do not.
For 15 years under Cal, we never forced turnovers. We also had some pretty good defenses at least in the beginning of that era.

The bottom line is it all goes back to four factors:
1) Opponent Effective FG%
2) Turnover %
3) Rebound %
4) Not fouling

Just be great at ONE of those things. That's all. You can do this in different ways. Be great at TWO and you have a very good defense.

Our current numbers are this:
121st
352nd
47th
102nd

That's not gonna work.

 

[rolaid]

Got to become a good zone team and stick with it for more than one possession.
We get killed in m to m off the iso dribble.

I agree on zone but a 2/3 not 1/3/1
Coaches won’t stay in zone they can give up 5,straight 3’s in man and stick in man then give up a corner 3 in a zone and pull it after one try

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

I agree we all know we’re slow if foot but why not trap ball screens and any passes to the post ?
This passive ball line defense where we put no pressure and allow the other team to do whatever only worked at UT they missed 34 threes

Yes. Passive ball line D and no pressure puts too much into fate's hands. Get up in somebody's crawl and dictate where they can go.
20% of defense is athleticism and the rest is effort. We need to take pride in guarding our man.
I played in the late 90's and I can't fathom how much crap you'd take getting torched on the defensive end like they are.
I had a legendary high school coach teach basic half court principles. He called it in the line and up the line. Defenders would shift position based on where your man and the ball were on the court. Be ready at all times to help or close out.

 

[BlueSince92]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

Love it.

Even though some Cal defenses were very good I have thought for YEARS how nice it would be to stop playing stop-the-ball defenses against teams with get-the-ball defenses. Back then it was like we were begging them to make up for our superior talent and they very often did. Now it’s just like we’re begging them to beat us.

 

[WildcatUKx]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

If these guys can't play defense now then there is no way they improve drastically before the tournament. But defense is an issue moving forward not just this season but next season also

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

Love it.

Even though some Cal defenses were very good I have thought for YEARS how nice it would be to stop playing stop-the-ball defenses against teams with get-the-ball defenses. Back then it was like we were begging them to make up for our superior talent and they very often did. Now it’s just like we’re begging them to beat us.

My point exactly. Glad I'm not alone. Thanks

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

It's a fine thought, but at this point in the season, you just can't tell the guys, "hey we're playing some of the best teams in the nation, just go take the ball from them". Doesn't work like that. Finding moments where you can try to drum up a trap or extra pressure, say out of a timeout or after a made FT, that could work.

But our roster isn't built like Ole Miss (and others) where speed, length, physicality, etc is abundant. It's really, really challenging to turn really good teams over. Not just from a coaching standpoint, but from building a roster too.

Being short handed you'd think Pope would be more willing to take some risks. We're already giving up an insane points per possession so why not extend pressure.
I'd accept some token traps and pressure but our rotations aren't even good in a normal man setting.
Ultimately, it's a conundrum of what to do on that end of the floor. However, I think everyone can agree, if you aren't busting ass on the defensive end you shouldn't be on floor.

 

[jwphelps]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

I say start the game in a match up zone and feel out the other team, I would rather lose with them hitting long 3's than getting beat with their guards driving by ours all day long. Face it without Butler we have no one who can stay in front of a fast PG.

 

[Seth_C]

If you think we are doing bad now just wait till we’ve got Travis Perry and Chandler even out of position because they are trying to play passing lanes for steals. Oof.

 

[The_Answer1313]

If you think we are doing bad now just wait till we’ve got Travis Perry and Chandler even out of position because they are trying to play passing lanes for steals. Oof.

Then again, ..........I mean Ole Miss shot 65% from 2 last night.

We can't get much worse in that aspect and at least Perry and Chandler will create some turnovers doing that lol.

Thing is.......we don't have to sell out. We don't have to be one of those teams that turns teams over 20% of the time. We just need to be better than 361st lol.


If you are gonna allow teams to shoot a crazy % from 2 and 3 all game long, you better limit those shots by rebounding the ball and forcing some turnovers.

 

[CatsFanIL]

Being short handed you'd think Pope would be more willing to take some risks. We're already giving up an insane points per possession so why not extend pressure.
I'd accept some token traps and pressure but our rotations aren't even good in a normal man setting.
Ultimately, it's a conundrum of what to do on that end of the floor. However, I think everyone can agree, if you aren't busting ass on the defensive end you shouldn't be on floor.

I get it, but sometimes the best course is to maintain and try to continue improving each day. Butler and/or Kriisa are hopefully returning, which should help. You've got 100% of your players in their first year together, Jaxson might be the exception depending on the defensive system in place at BYU with Pope.

Ultimately, you have to get stops in basketball. Having too many "shooters" on the floor typically means you're sacrificing defense, which is why Cal never wanted to fill the roster with the CJ Frederick's of the world.

If we're struggling to get stops now and can't generate turnovers, I think going to more pressure/traps is just going to allow even more easy buckets at the rim

 

[tf4fun]

I suggest to stop being reactive and become proactive on the defensive end.
From tip off be physical on defense with the objective being to take the ball away---create turnovers. We're already getting torched for easy baskets and open looks. Might as well throw caution to the wind and stop worrying about fouls.

Now, I'm not saying to press full court all game. However, within our half court man to man, extend pressure and get extremely aggressive. Change the objective from simply getting stops to getting the basketball.

Like I said, we're already giving up too many points per possession, so we may as well try to create more scoring opportunities. Our offense tends to flow much better when everything isn't coming from a half court set grinding everything out. As a result, it could help speed up the tempo and get more open threes in transition.
*This suggestion is glossing over trying to instill basic defensive adjustments like help side, hand up butt down close outs, and rotation/recovery principles bc it's late in the season.

I agree, but what do you do when the refs tack a couple quick fouls on you?? They really set the tone GA FL ect

 

[thebluestripes]

I gotta wonder if pope kinda got into these kids heads alil bit with the championship defene chest and learning not to foul stuff. Perhaps part of the problem is these guys are thinking too much on defense, kinda like how cal made the kids tendative on offense.

 

[Edgarman]

I gotta wonder if pope kinda got into these kids heads alil bit with the championship defene chest and learning not to foul stuff. Perhaps part of the problem is these guys are thinking too much on defense, kinda like how cal made the kids tendative on offense.

Coach Pope made his portal recruiting seemingly based on offense performance. I think themistake made was not trying to balance his recruiting with more defense being part of the equation. A team can't really be complete with all shooters. Certainly it was ans is fun when everyone is hitting but does not always happen when we play defensive minded teams. Florida did not play defense the night we outscored them. Looking at our loses we failed to guard and were not knocking down a high percentage of our 3s. Most good teams usually have two really good scorers but 3 average shooters but 5 kids who are committed to playing solid defense. Auburn has two "scorers" but 5 defensive players. Bama, TN, and Missouri have a similar makeup. Officiating has changed in the last few years, allowing more physical play and the four previously mentioned teams have embraced this style of play. Coach Pope needs to embrace the new trend of physical play. I see this also in the Big 12 conference with aggressive defenses. I think each game we have fans screaming about officials but if you had watched the TN/Missouri game last night you would have seen the new style of "letting them play." Both teams probably needed a whirlpool treatment after the game for bruises. We need for our kids to get more physical on defense.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

be honest .. you can teach 8th graders to play 2 zone D's , a 2-3 and a 1-3-1. .. it's not hard , just have to have players willing to bust ass to cover their areas .... I about had a fit last night the one possession we went 1-3-1 , mentioned it in the game thread .... A Williams was the baseline guy in the 1-3-1 .. the Baseline covers corner to corner . Thats the way it works -- Right ? Hell they swing the ball to the corner and A Williams isnt in the area code .. he's standing in the middle of the paint . Thats the wing guys area , ball goes to corner the WING opposite that corner drops and helps the guy playing the middle cover the paint . Amari didnt move . Guy was lonely wide open .

We can't have Amari on the back line of a 1-3-1. Jackson would be the best choice with Carr in the middle and Amari on the wing. The 3-2 or 2-3 is better suited for our personnel imo. But the thing about a zone is it still has man concepts and our issue in both defenses is that we’re out of position terribly when offensive guys are in motion. I just think we’re ball watchers and have bad habits from years of playing in less physical/athletic conferences.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

Coach Pope made his portal recruiting seemingly based on offense performance. I think themistake made was not trying to balance his recruiting with more defense being part of the equation. A team can't really be complete with all shooters.

Butler was 2X defensive player of the year, Amari was CAA 3X DPOY, Garrison was known for his defense in recruiting and was considered a good rim protector and shot blocker, and Oweh was considered a really good defender so I don’t buy that he didn’t recruit for defense. Defense isn’t just guard your man and don’t let him by you. It’s a team concept and requires a ton of communication. For whatever reason, this team just isn’t cohesive on that end.

 

[Edgarman]

Butler was 2X defensive player of the year, Amari was CAA 3X DPOY, Garrison was known for his defense in recruiting and was considered a good rim protector and shot blocker, and Oweh was considered a really good defender so I don’t buy that he didn’t recruit for defense. Defense isn’t just guard your man and don’t let him by you. It’s a team concept and requires a ton of communication. For whatever reason, this team just isn’t cohesive on that end.

I'll give you some of what you explained but for Oweh being a good defensive player, i can't agree. Now, Oweh might be able to be a good defender but he does not seem to care to use any of his energy on the defensive end. Scoring 12 and giving up 15 is not very helpful for our team.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

I'll give you some of what you explained but for Oweh being a good defensive player, i can't agree. Now, Oweh might be able to be a good defender but he does not seem to care to use any of his energy on the defensive end. Scoring 12 and giving up 15 is not very helpful for our team.

I agree too. I was just going by what was said about him and what even draft scouts had said. He’s out of position a ton.

 

[mcnicKY91]

My concern lies with the effort put forth on the defensive end, and being able to communicate. Yes, having good athletes helps, but that doesn't play as much of a factor as one would think. Heck, UK was loaded with athletes last year and couldn't play a lick of defense.

Guys are beyond slow to contest, are consistently out of position, and any coach will tell you that the number one sign of lack of communication on defense occurs when defenders are throwing their hands up in the air after breakdowns occur, which is what UK was doing plenty of against Ole Miss, especially in the first half.

I was concerned with Pope's ability on the defensive end when he was hired, and he has done nothing to help alleviate those concerns. No one is saying UK as to be a juggernaut defensively, but I am saying that to be out of the top 100 defensively is a massive coaching failure, especially when you have a top 5 offense.