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My Take, FWIW

TheBlueMax

Junior
Jan 1, 2003
3,602
1,958
113
Kentucky
Why have things gone down hill in recent years?

It exposes the inherent weakness of the business model (OAD NBA Factory) he employs to run this program. You can literally list several key points (reasons) why you wouldn't want to use this system to uphold our winning tradition.

As evidenced by his commentary this week in addition to his espoused philosophy for years, it is literally MUCH more important, especially since he already is a HOF coach, to change generational poverty and get as many of these kids to the NBA as possible, and that means getting them in and out as quickly as possible to make room for more! Many stay less than a calendar year, and almost 90% (my wild guess) wouldn't know Joe Hall from Dan Issel. They don't care about our history (the name on the front of the jersey) nearly as much as the name on the back. Ask them how many Jack scored against Duke in the championship game of 1978 and most couldn't even begin to know.They probably aren't aware of how many titles we have.

Here's my off-the-top-of-my-head list on Super Bowl Sunday (I should be out practicing golf!) what results in having this program philosophy vice one that emphasizes one thing and one thing only: winning games. These are my by-products caused by this flawed system.

If winning games is not as important as getting to the NBA for the coach, then the kids don't mind losing too badly...it's OK, we're still going to be millionaires in a matter of months!

The team is......shall I daresay one more time, "young." This team is young EVERY YEAR. Calipari can't win because they're ALWAYS playing against grown men. There is now 330 million in this country, much larger than 30 or 40 years ago, so there are many more good basketball players than ever before. We get some pretty good ones each year, but now we see clear evidence that those recruiting good players who stay three or four or five years perform better than we do in our kids' usual lone season.

Fan frustration is at DEFCON 1. Maxey. Quickley. Washington. Gilgeous-Alexander. Booker. Boston. Richards. Etc. Etc. Good to decent players, but their teams didn't advance very far except for Booker's 38-1 team. Early departures of Patterson, Cousins, and many others, but most pointedly Jodie Meeks have cost us countless wins and with Meeks, likely a championship. No one stays long enough for a team to build Kansas-like continuity, hence, the very reason they have overtaken us in wins and success during Self's tenure. Look at the makeup of championship teams and overall recent program success and you will see that there is a maturity level that Kentucky under Calipari will never match in any season. How can we truly compete with that? The numbers say that we cannot.

Injuries...seems like we not only have more than normal, we seem to sit out more than normal. Are we protecting careers? A look now and in the past reveals some weird stories. Do you trust our injury situation? I don't. I think our kids end up being soifter here because they are coddled and protected...careers are protected and we lose games as a result.

I could keep marching on here with other evidence why you shouldn't employ thios system, but I'm fatigued. Another outcome of this flawed system...fan fatigue and indifference, which lends itself to intense frustration and dislike. I don't have trust anymore in Cal like I once did. For a while, like many of you, we were all in 100%. No more. I'm about at my 1967 13-13 record breaking point. This is absolutely NOT anything close to the "gold standard" because Cal and his implied philosophy has let this program down and let it jump off the track...the winning track. The four- or five-year numbers are dismal. Lesser coaches would have been dismissed. The "Kentucky Good" standard of excellence is not being met.

Finally, why is a lifetime contract at Kentucky with a tremendous foundation of winning tradition for which any coach would crawl miles to get to Lexington...it leaves me dumbfounded and shaking my head why anyone would believe it'd be ever necessary to use that as an inducement for someone to be here. We would literally have 100 of the best coaches in America today who would line up to coach here. You'd never have to "entice" anyone to come or to stay. We hold the cards because of our winning tradition since 1930! Think of YOUR top ten coaches in America who might be on your list. One of those would surely end up here if WE wanted them here. Talk about picking and eating first! We'd have no trouble whatsoever getting a great coach, and as a result, you never have to resort to giving a lifetime contract. That was a misCALculation. For whatever reason, Cal is not as good as before, and it's likely due to his stubbornness, his ego, and I think, an animosity with UK fans who dare to question his veracity, authority, and basketball knowledge.

In the short term, let's hope the turn around, like it did with Ole Miss in 1998, starts this Tuesday night. I love these kids and hope they all stay. I unconditionally love EVERY kid on this team and all those before them because they came here to my school to wear the blue and white. Of that, there is no denial. But, we have to win games. That has to be over everything else. Winning cures and takes care of everything else.
 
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We had more experience the prior 2 seasons and didn't have any success. Cal has had his best success with super frosh and some experience.

The frosh this year aren't super. There is the main issue other than his obvious coaching issues.
 
We had more experience the prior 2 seasons and didn't have any success. Cal has had his best success with super frosh and some experience.

The frosh this year aren't super. There is the main issue other than his obvious coaching issues.

Has there really been an overall deep class in college basketball since Fox, Monk, and Bam. I don't think so. You are absolutely right about needing super frosh. Multiple of them. One probably isn't enough.
 
Agree with alot here. Very well thought out.

I do maybe disagree with how easy it will be to get another elite coach. While we are bluest of blue bloods it's also toughest place to coach in America from media , fanbase , expectations, etc. Most good coaches now would figure why leave where they are for a little more money but 10x the scrutiny an pressure. Though that could chsnge I Reed stays. If Reed stays here it could entice alot of coaches as he seems to v ery coaches dream Player that comments on him.
 
We had more experience the prior 2 seasons and didn't have any success. Cal has had his best success with super frosh and some experience.

The frosh this year aren't super. There is the main issue other than his obvious coaching issues.
Disagree on the freshman not being super he has Dilly and Reed sitting on the pine not starting games and usually dig a hole early. By the way both are projected lottery picks in a few months. This is and always has been on the dumbazz in charge of the program
 
Why have things gone down hill in recent years?

It exposes the inherent weakness of the business model (OAD NBA Factory) he employs to run this program. You can literally list several key points (reasons) why you wouldn't want to use this system to uphold our winning tradition.

As evidenced by his commentary this week in addition to his espoused philosophy for years, it is literally MUCH more important, especially since he already is a HOF coach, to change generational poverty and get as many of these kids to the NBA as possible, and that means getting them in and out as quickly as possible to make room for more! Many stay less than a calendar year, and almost 90% (my wild guess) wouldn't know Joe Hall from Dan Issel. They don't care about our history (the name on the front of the jersey) nearly as much as the name on the back. Ask them how many Jack scored against Duke in the championship game of 1978 and most couldn't even begin to know.They probably aren't aware of how many titles we have.

Here's my off-the-top-of-my-head list on Super Bowl Sunday (I should be out practicing golf!) what results in having this program philosophy vice one that emphasizes one thing and one thing only: winning games. These are my by-products caused by this flawed system.

If winning games is not as important as getting to the NBA for the coach, then the kids don't mind losing too badly...it's OK, we're still going to be millionaires in a matter of months!

The team is......shall I daresay one more time, "young." This team is young EVERY YEAR. Calipari can't win because they're ALWAYS playing against grown men. There is now 330 million in this country, much larger than 30 or 40 years ago, so there are many more good basketball players than ever before. We get some pretty good ones each year, but now we see clear evidence that those recruiting good players who stay three or four or five years perform better than we do in our kids' usual lone season.

Fan frustration is at DEFCON 5. Maxey. Quickley. Washington. Gilgeous-Alexander. Booker. Boston. Richards. Etc. Etc. Good to decent players, but their teams didn't advance very far except for Booker's 38-1 team. Early departures of Patterson, Cousins, and many others, but most pointedly Jodie Meeks have cost us countless wins and with Meeks, likely a championship. No one stays long enough for a team to build Kansas-like continuity, hence, the very reason they have overtaken us in wins and success during Self's tenure. Look at the makeup of championship teams and overall recent program success and you will see that there is a maturity level that Kentucky under Calipari will never match in any season. How can we truly compete with that? The numbers say that we cannot.

Injuries...seems like we not only have more than normal, we seem to sit out more than normal. Are we protecting careers? A look now and in the past reveals some weird stories. Do you trust our injury situation? I don't. I think our kids end up being soifter here because they are coddled and protected...careers are protected and we lose games as a result.
I could keep marching on here with other evidence why you shouldn't employ thios system, but I'm fatigued. Another outcome of this flawed system...fan fatigue and indifference, which lends itself to intense frustration and dislike. I don't have trust anymore in Cal like I once did. For a while, like many of you, we were all in 100%. No more. I'm about at my 1967 13-13 record breaking point. This is absolutely NOT anything close to the "gold standard" because Cal and his implied philosophy has let this program down and let it jump off the track...the winning track. The four- or five-year numbers are dismal. Lesser coaches would have been dismissed. The "Kentucky Good" standard of excellence is not being met.
Finally, why is a lifetime contract at Kentucky with a tremendous foundation of winning tradition for which any coach would crawl miles to get to Lexington...it leaves me dumbfounded and shaking my head why anyone would believe it'd be ever necessary to use that as an inducement for someone to be here. We would literally have 100 of the best coaches in America today who would line up to coach here. You'd never have to "entice" anyone to come or to stay. We hold the cards because of our winning tradition since 1930! Think of YOUR top ten coaches in America who might be on your list. One of those would surely end up here if WE wanted them here. Talk about picking and eating first! We'd have no trouble whatsoever getting a great coach, and as a result, you never have to resort to giving a lifetime contract. That was a misCALculation. For whatever reason, Cal is not as good as before, and it's likely due to his stubbornness, his ego, and I think, an animosity with UK fans who dare to question his veracity, authority, and basketball knowledge.

In the short term, let's hope the turn around, like it did with Ole Miss in 1998, starts this Tuesday night. I love these kids and hope they all stay. I unconditionally love EVERY kid on this team and all those before them because they came here to my school to wear the blue and white. Of that, there is no denial. But, we have to win games. That has to be over everything else. Winning cures and takes care of everything else
Actually the fan frustration is DEFCON 1. DEFCON 5 is peacetime normal. DEFCON 1 is full nuclear exchange.
 
The biggest issue I have seen is cal hasn’t had an elite shot blocker in forever. Every really good team of his has had an elite shot blocker. And they also have a pg who can consistently beat their man off the dribble and get to the rim
 
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Same stuff me and others were saying in 2020. You can't build a one and done team and expect a title or final four. Unless you're grabbing generational talent or stacking it. And with the changes of top recruits going elsewhere than UK, NIL, The portal, etc. It's hard to snag that talent or stack it. You can expect tons of draft picks with OnD teams, though.
 
I agree with you for the most part but I actually think we have some players on this team that really care about and want to win. Adou, Sheppard, Big Z, Ugo and some others. Unfortunately our coach doesn't put them in the position or give them the proper instruction to do so.
 
We had more experience the prior 2 seasons and didn't have any success. Cal has had his best success with super frosh and some experience.

The frosh this year aren't super. There is the main issue other than his obvious coaching issues.
Yes we have, but we still have on average 3 undertrained HS players on the floor most of the time. AAU players are going up against most of the time players with 2+ years of college experience. I do not care what their stars are they cannot compete against a player who knows how to play defense and has proven his offensive skills against other seasoned players. I honestly believe we should have no more than 1 Freshman 5 star on the floor at anytime. And if I had my choice give me 5 portal players over the Freshman any day of the week. Cal'smodel is no longer viable with the portal and his loyalty to the 5 stars is sickening and the main reason we lose against top25 competition.
 
Why have things gone down hill in recent years?

It exposes the inherent weakness of the business model (OAD NBA Factory) he employs to run this program. You can literally list several key points (reasons) why you wouldn't want to use this system to uphold our winning tradition.

As evidenced by his commentary this week in addition to his espoused philosophy for years, it is literally MUCH more important, especially since he already is a HOF coach, to change generational poverty and get as many of these kids to the NBA as possible, and that means getting them in and out as quickly as possible to make room for more! Many stay less than a calendar year, and almost 90% (my wild guess) wouldn't know Joe Hall from Dan Issel. They don't care about our history (the name on the front of the jersey) nearly as much as the name on the back. Ask them how many Jack scored against Duke in the championship game of 1978 and most couldn't even begin to know.They probably aren't aware of how many titles we have.

Here's my off-the-top-of-my-head list on Super Bowl Sunday (I should be out practicing golf!) what results in having this program philosophy vice one that emphasizes one thing and one thing only: winning games. These are my by-products caused by this flawed system.

If winning games is not as important as getting to the NBA for the coach, then the kids don't mind losing too badly...it's OK, we're still going to be millionaires in a matter of months!

The team is......shall I daresay one more time, "young." This team is young EVERY YEAR. Calipari can't win because they're ALWAYS playing against grown men. There is now 330 million in this country, much larger than 30 or 40 years ago, so there are many more good basketball players than ever before. We get some pretty good ones each year, but now we see clear evidence that those recruiting good players who stay three or four or five years perform better than we do in our kids' usual lone season.

Fan frustration is at DEFCON 1. Maxey. Quickley. Washington. Gilgeous-Alexander. Booker. Boston. Richards. Etc. Etc. Good to decent players, but their teams didn't advance very far except for Booker's 38-1 team. Early departures of Patterson, Cousins, and many others, but most pointedly Jodie Meeks have cost us countless wins and with Meeks, likely a championship. No one stays long enough for a team to build Kansas-like continuity, hence, the very reason they have overtaken us in wins and success during Self's tenure. Look at the makeup of championship teams and overall recent program success and you will see that there is a maturity level that Kentucky under Calipari will never match in any season. How can we truly compete with that? The numbers say that we cannot.

Injuries...seems like we not only have more than normal, we seem to sit out more than normal. Are we protecting careers? A look now and in the past reveals some weird stories. Do you trust our injury situation? I don't. I think our kids end up being soifter here because they are coddled and protected...careers are protected and we lose games as a result.

I could keep marching on here with other evidence why you shouldn't employ thios system, but I'm fatigued. Another outcome of this flawed system...fan fatigue and indifference, which lends itself to intense frustration and dislike. I don't have trust anymore in Cal like I once did. For a while, like many of you, we were all in 100%. No more. I'm about at my 1967 13-13 record breaking point. This is absolutely NOT anything close to the "gold standard" because Cal and his implied philosophy has let this program down and let it jump off the track...the winning track. The four- or five-year numbers are dismal. Lesser coaches would have been dismissed. The "Kentucky Good" standard of excellence is not being met.

Finally, why is a lifetime contract at Kentucky with a tremendous foundation of winning tradition for which any coach would crawl miles to get to Lexington...it leaves me dumbfounded and shaking my head why anyone would believe it'd be ever necessary to use that as an inducement for someone to be here. We would literally have 100 of the best coaches in America today who would line up to coach here. You'd never have to "entice" anyone to come or to stay. We hold the cards because of our winning tradition since 1930! Think of YOUR top ten coaches in America who might be on your list. One of those would surely end up here if WE wanted them here. Talk about picking and eating first! We'd have no trouble whatsoever getting a great coach, and as a result, you never have to resort to giving a lifetime contract. That was a misCALculation. For whatever reason, Cal is not as good as before, and it's likely due to his stubbornness, his ego, and I think, an animosity with UK fans who dare to question his veracity, authority, and basketball knowledge.

In the short term, let's hope the turn around, like it did with Ole Miss in 1998, starts this Tuesday night. I love these kids and hope they all stay. I unconditionally love EVERY kid on this team and all those before them because they came here to my school to wear the blue and white. Of that, there is no denial. But, we have to win games. That has to be over everything else. Winning cures and takes care of everything else.
You make some good points. Fan fatigue is real, 100%. Cal deserves a TON of criticism, 100%. The players this season deserve criticism too, 100%. Mitch Barnhart deserves a TON of criticism too, 100%.

I think the OAD system, which led to so much success, was working - until Self, Coach K, Alford, Shaka, Williams, etc - all started using it too. So when he was loading up on OAD and no one else was really doing it yet, it was good. But then he started losing some of that elite OAD talent, which definitely proved to hurt his system.

Also think with recent OAD talent - it's been good, but not really elite. So to take it a step further, the "good" OAD talent is being disrupted by the transfer portal. Other opponents have loaded up on some good, veteran, physically imposing talent from the portal, and "good" OAD players at UK have struggled against it.

Self is GREAT at developing talent, actually within his program over the course of a few years. He does good with OAD too, but he also develops kids over 3 years. UCONN the same. Bruce Pearl the same. Tennessee the same. Kentucky has struggled with this. And I don't know if it's on the coaches actual ability to develop, or their inability to retain players.
 
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