Murray versus Deng

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Will be an interesting matchup. Murray one of the very best offensive players and now Pitino comes out and says Deng is one of the best defensive players he has ever had. For those that have seen Deng play is this a situation we need to start being concerned about? Is he really that good that he could slow an offensive machine like Murray down?

Briscoe and Mitchell could be a good matchup because they are both strong. But Briscoe to me looks like the one of the toughest and physical guards we have had in a long time. Briscoe is down right mean, he will be a tough matchup for everyone all year.

 

[gossie21]

Are those 2 of Rick's 8 NBA players?

There is not one UofL player that I am concerned about. They have a mid-pack Horizon League roster.

 

[Smashcat]

Are those 2 of Rick's 8 NBA players?

There is not one UofL player that I am concerned about. They have a mid-pack Horizon League roster.

 

[GonzoCat90]

To answer your question, I thought you somehow meant Luol in some international game of sorts. Once I read the word Pitino I thought you misspelled Dieng, then I realized who you actually meant.

Besides, the last game changing freshman for Pitino at Louisville was...?

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Are those 2 of Rick's 8 NBA players?

There is not one UofL player that I am concerned about. They have a mid-pack Horizon League roster.

Cannot see a guy like Lee handling Murray. When we get it on RP will have no choice but to throw his best D player at Murray. When he does, Deng will hurt them offensively.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Who the hell is Deng? I've never heard of most of these UL scrubs.

 

[.S&C.]

To answer your question, I thought you somehow meant Luol in some international game of sorts. Once I read the word Pitino I thought you misspelled Dieng, then I realized who you actually meant.

Besides, the last game changing freshman for Pitino at Louisville was...?

He's had a bunch actually.

Mashburn
Mercer
Walker

just to name a few. I could go on.

Oh you meant @louisville, lol. No it can't be done. They have barely gotten "game changers" period.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Who the hell is Deng? I've never heard of most of these UL scrubs.

Is it Adel Deng or Deng Adel? May have his last name wrong.

 

[coolcat9lives]

Deng Adel will not be a factor for UL next year. Ricky P will bury him at the end of the bench like Aaron last year. Rick is notoriously bad with playing freshman. Adel is pretty athletic and about 6'6 or 6'7' but it takes him FOREVER to get off his jumper. It's almost like a set shot. Not a strong driver either but he is an athletic finisher though. Think a poor poor poor poor man's Alex Poythress.

 

[GLR5555]

Too damn many Dangs for me.

 

[CUT-NETS]

Are those 2 of Rick's 8 NBA players?

There is not one UofL player that I am concerned about. They have a mid-pack Horizon League roster.

@brianpoe See what i mean man? Mid-pack Horizon League roster? This is the stuff I'm talking about.

 

[brianpoe]

@brianpoe See what i mean man? Mid-pack Horizon League roster? This is the stuff I'm talking about.

I am not one to rag on Pitino, his bball success stands on its own.

His personal life is none of my business.

As to this year's roster... I could see them struggling in the ACC but not mid-pack Horizon league. I think Gossie is using a little sarcasm here to make a point.

I also think much of the UL hate comes from the comments of their idiot fan base and the simple rivalry aspect. Not to mention the butt hurt of Rick going there (which has never bothered me).

But yes I understand where you are coming from, our fans hate on a bunch of other teams.

I have been slammed for saying Virginia will be good this year and that UNC should probably start the year at #1.

We always have fans who think everybody else sucks compared to us, but there is nothing you can do about that. Hell, we even have posters here who think Cal plays kids so they can get drafted higher even though it may hurt the team...

 

[CUT-NETS]

I am not one to rag on Pitino, his bball success stands on its own.

His personal life is none of my business.

As to this year's roster... I could see them struggling in the ACC but not mid-pack Horizon league. I think Gossie is using a little sarcasm here to make a point.

I also think much of the UL hate comes from the comments of their idiot fan base and the simple rivalry aspect. Not to mention the butt hurt of Rick going there (which has never bothered me).

But yes I understand where you are coming from, our fans hate on a bunch of other teams.

I have been slammed for saying Virginia will be good this year and that UNC should probably start the year at #1.

We always have fans who think everybody else sucks compared to us, but there is nothing you can do about that. Hell, we even have posters here who think Cal plays kids so they can get drafted higher even though it may hurt the team...

Everyone is going to struggle in the ACC, just take a look at some pre-season polls out there. UNC, Duke, UVA, Notre Dame, will all be good, not to mention Miami, FL St, and NC St. Its a tough league. I think fans are kidding themselves if they don't think UL will be good this year. They've added some nice pieces, hell, Rick almost had them in the final four last season. Agreed on where the hate comes from, but I think fans set themselves up for lots of disappointment if they think every year that UL will suck.

UNC is loaded and UVA returns almost everyone except Anderson. The team that Im surprised everyone is casting off is Duke. Duke returns Jones and Allen (great shooters), along with some experienced size in Plumlee and Jefferson. Then they go out and add Kennard (deadly shooter), Thornton, Jeter…….oh yeah and INGRAM. And people don't even know about Sean Obi. Guy was a ferocious rebounder at Rice and will give them solid minutes down low. They go basically 9 deep. How is it that everyone is counting Duke out?

And yes, Cal gives a longer leash to those players with NBA aspirations no doubt in my mind. Think about this scenario: lets say Hawkins has two weeks in a row of practice where he flat out plays and is better than Briscoe (not saying this has happened or will). Just outplays him in every aspect (LONG SHOT i know). You think Cal is going to send Hawkins out there to start or give him some of Briscoe's minutes as a result? I don't. Why? Because you go trotting Hawkins out there and then every 5-star recruit watching says "Whats Briscoe doing on the bench? Damn Im not going to UK to give up my minutes to some 3-star kid". None of the 5-stars watching are going to say "Man I guess Hawkins has out hustled Briscoe in practice". Im not saying its necessarily a bad thing in the long run that Cal has this mentality, but all of Cal's moves are for that next big time 5-star kid, even if it means playing Goodwin threw brick after brick after brick off the rim or backboard, which yes, in that moment, is detriment to the team. But you do this and you can go to the next 5-star kid and say "look Im going to let you grow and play through your mistakes here. You just go out and play and don't think or worry about anything." Its all about the next recruit. I don't think its really that far-fetched.

 

[crestcat]

Every time Piteener talks about one of his players "he is the best ever", hyperbole should be Rick's middle name.

 

[BigKari]

No Chris Jones to guard this year. What is this even based on? Anyone on a high level D1 team could defend anyone on Louisville's roster. They will probably still be somewhat decent, but there is no one guy on their roster that you could define as a "dangerous scorer". So that might be why this Deng character looks so good on defense.

 

[Ben101er]

Cmon. You just knew that Rick couldn't go the entire summer without saying that one of his players was the best.............something. I'd say Vegas had it at 2 to 3.

 

[brianpoe]

Everyone is going to struggle in the ACC, just take a look at some pre-season polls out there. UNC, Duke, UVA, Notre Dame, will all be good, not to mention Miami, FL St, and NC St. Its a tough league. I think fans are kidding themselves if they don't think UL will be good this year. They've added some nice pieces, hell, Rick almost had them in the final four last season. Agreed on where the hate comes from, but I think fans set themselves up for lots of disappointment if they think every year that UL will suck.

UNC is loaded and UVA returns almost everyone except Anderson. The team that Im surprised everyone is casting off is Duke. Duke returns Jones and Allen (great shooters), along with some experienced size in Plumlee and Jefferson. Then they go out and add Kennard (deadly shooter), Thornton, Jeter…….oh yeah and INGRAM. And people don't even know about Sean Obi. Guy was a ferocious rebounder at Rice and will give them solid minutes down low. They go basically 9 deep. How is it that everyone is counting Duke out?

And yes, Cal gives a longer leash to those players with NBA aspirations no doubt in my mind. Think about this scenario: lets say Hawkins has two weeks in a row of practice where he flat out plays and is better than Briscoe (not saying this has happened or will). Just outplays him in every aspect (LONG SHOT i know). You think Cal is going to send Hawkins out there to start or give him some of Briscoe's minutes as a result? I don't. Why? Because you go trotting Hawkins out there and then every 5-star recruit watching says "Whats Briscoe doing on the bench? Damn Im not going to UK to give up my minutes to some 3-star kid". None of the 5-stars watching are going to say "Man I guess Hawkins has out hustled Briscoe in practice". Im not saying its necessarily a bad thing in the long run that Cal has this mentality, but all of Cal's moves are for that next big time 5-star kid, even if it means playing Goodwin threw brick after brick after brick off the rim or backboard, which yes, in that moment, is detriment to the team. But you do this and you can go to the next 5-star kid and say "look Im going to let you grow and play through your mistakes here. You just go out and play and don't think or worry about anything." Its all about the next recruit. I don't think its really that far-fetched.

I do not discount Duke, because I do not discount shooters and heady bball players. Obi still has a ways to go before he dominates the ACC.

As to your player argument...

So...if James Jones outplays Lebron in every aspect for two weeks you bench Lebron?

Your method only works when all players are of the same skill set and athletic ability. That is why you cannot bench Archie for Malone. The better player will shine through in more aspects.

This is true in every sport.

 

[CUT-NETS]

I do not discount Duke, because I do not discount shooters and heady bball players. Obi still has a ways to go before he dominates the ACC.

As to your player argument...

So...if James Jones outplays Lebron in every aspect for two weeks you bench Lebron?

Your method only works when all players are of the same skill set and athletic ability. That is why you cannot bench Archie for Malone. The better player will shine through in more aspects.

This is true in every sport.

Agreed. Obviously you can't do it with Malone. But if Cal had say some 3-4 star player that he could have brought in every time Goodwin messed up do you think he would have?

I mean if you look at our platoon system last season we went 5 and 5 until Poythress went down. All accounts were that Willis was playing well (he had nice outings in the Bahamas). One would think that when Poy went down Cal could have slid Willis right into the mix and maintained the platoon as we originally knew it….5 and 5. However, Poy goes down and suddenly Willis doesn't even get a sniff. Now Im not a guy that says "Willis deserved to play! He's a KY boy! blah blah". But I do think Willis could have easily slid into the platoon system but didn't for some reason. Some say he wasn't taking it seriously enough. Guess we'll never know. Again, I think Cal gives a longer leash (when it comes to making mistakes) to his guys with NBA aspirations.


Finally, if Willis makes the same mistakes as Dakari you think Cal is letting Willis play through those mistakes? I realize Willis isn't a 5-star, but he's not chopped liver.

And i get your point, you give a longer leash to the player with the highest ceiling. But when it comes to 4 and 5-stars it can be a toss up.

 

[brianpoe]

Agreed. Obviously you can't do it with Malone. But if Cal had say some 3-4 star player that he could have brought in every time Goodwin messed up do you think he would have?

I mean if you look at our platoon system last season we went 5 and 5 until Poythress went down. All accounts were that Willis was playing well (he had nice outings in the Bahamas). One would think that when Poy went down Cal could have slid Willis right into the mix and maintained the platoon as we originally knew it….5 and 5. However, Poy goes down and suddenly Willis doesn't even get a sniff. Now Im not a guy that says "Willis deserved to play! He's a KY boy! blah blah". But I do think Willis could have easily slid into the platoon system but didn't for some reason. Some say he wasn't taking it seriously enough. Guess we'll never know. Again, I think Cal gives a longer leash (when it comes to making mistakes) to his guys with NBA aspirations.


Finally, if Willis makes the same mistakes as Dakari you think Cal is letting Willis play through those mistakes? I realize Willis isn't a 5-star, but he's not chopped liver.

And i get your point, you give a longer leash to the player with the highest ceiling. But when it comes to 4 and 5-stars it can be a toss up.

See that is the thing about being a fan.

"I do think Willis could have easily slid into the platoon system"

You thinking and Cal knowing because he sees him everyday for two years is different. Besides you do not know any back story on any of these players and I can tell you that not all of Derek's stuff was bball related.

And there can be a substantial amount of difference in 5 and 4 stars or any two players.

Hell, look at KAT and Lee both 5 stars and an ocean of difference.

You make many generalizations without giving proper credence to the coach who sees these kids everyday, knows their abilities, and has done this for over 30 years.

You watch 40 minutes on tv and think your insight compares with that of Cal? You are giving opinions based upon an extremely small sample set.

 

[CUT-NETS]

See that is the thing about being a fan.

"I do think Willis could have easily slid into the platoon system"

You thinking and Cal knowing because he sees him everyday for two years is different. Besides you do not know any back story on any of these players and I can tell you that not all of Derek's stuff was bball related.

And there can be a substantial amount of difference in 5 and 4 stars or any two players.

Hell, look at KAT and Lee both 5 stars and an ocean of difference.

You make many generalizations without giving proper credence to the coach who sees these kids everyday, knows their abilities, and has done this for over 30 years.

You watch 40 minutes on tv and think your insight compares with that Cal? You are giving opinions based upon an extremely small sample set.

So you don't think there is any method or favor to a 5-star kid based on how it will look to future 5-star kids? At all?

 

[brianpoe]

So you don't think there is any method or favor to a 5-star kid based on how it will look to future 5-star kids? At all?

If that is your case then what about Marcus Lee? He was a 5 star. Orton? Kyle Wiltjer? You cannot pick and choose.

Your case does not hold up across the board.

 

[CUT-NETS]

If that is your case then what about Marcus Lee? He was a 5 star. Orton? Kyle Wiltjer? You cannot pick and choose.

Your case does not hold up across the board.

Were those guys coming in with BIG EXPECTATIONS? Were they coming in with "Coach I want to be one and done"?

 

[brianpoe]

Were those guys coming in with BIG EXPECTATIONS? Were they coming in with "Coach I want to be one and done"?

You said 5 star now you are picking and choosing?

Good convo but I think you may be reaching now. On to the next.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

Deng Adel will actually probably start for them, but it'll be as a 4. They say he is a big time defender, and he's a top 50 guy too, but I don't see how he and Murray will affect each other. But Louisville's gonna be a lot better than some think. I know they lost a whole lot but Damion Lee and Trey Lewis are both studs. Like 15-20pt per game guys. Then they got Donovan Mitchell, Deng Adel, Quinton Snider too. And if one of Onuako or Mathiang can play good defense and give them 6-7pts, 5-6rbs then they'll be borderline top 10 all year. My buddy that's a big UL guy thinks one of their foreign kids may break out but I don't know anything about them other than that one Egyptian kid playing a little last year.

 

[GonzoCat90]

This thread took a pretty interesting and yet totally predictable turn.

 

[Hoskins91]

Ok ill leave it alone after this:

Im saying the 5-star kid coming in with big expectations that wants to be one and done etc, that kid is going to get a longer leash than any other player.

James Young is a PRIME example. He was a terrible defender. Terrible passer. Probably the worst post-entry passer I can remember. Couldn't remember plays. Even admitted that he forgot what Cal called in the timeout against Wichita St. Yet he hardly ever got yanked. How many times did you see him make a bad pass? Hell we all drill Chad Ford on here for calling James Young an excellent passer. Every fan witnessed his terrible passes. But did he get pulled for that? Did he sit out for extended times to learn a lesson? It wasn't like Cal didn't have anyone else? That class was heralded as the great recruiting class of all time. Nope. James played right on through those mistakes, and in my opinion is was for more than just "well, players with the highest ceiling play are allowed to play through their mistakes". I think its making sure that the next big time kid knows that they won't be yanked and "taught a lesson". Which, say again, is fine if its bringing in the next best players, but not if its to the detriment of the team. James Young is now struggling to stay in the NBA. So maybe his ceiling wasn't as high as we, or Cal, originally thought. So why then was he able to seemingly play through so many mistakes? I just think kids like him get a longer leash because of their NBA one and done aspirations, and how playing them and getting them to the league looks to other big time recruits. AGain, its obviously not too bad of a thing if we keep reeling in big time players.

Who would he put in instead? He plays who he thinks will give us the best chance to win now and later in the season. I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. Willis has never done anything that I've seen that warrants him getting big minutes.

 

[Poetax]

Agreed. Obviously you can't do it with Malone. But if Cal had say some 3-4 star player that he could have brought in every time Goodwin messed up do you think he would have?

I mean if you look at our platoon system last season we went 5 and 5 until Poythress went down. All accounts were that Willis was playing well (he had nice outings in the Bahamas). One would think that when Poy went down Cal could have slid Willis right into the mix and maintained the platoon as we originally knew it….5 and 5. However, Poy goes down and suddenly Willis doesn't even get a sniff. Now Im not a guy that says "Willis deserved to play! He's a KY boy! blah blah". But I do think Willis could have easily slid into the platoon system but didn't for some reason. Some say he wasn't taking it seriously enough. Guess we'll never know. Again, I think Cal gives a longer leash (when it comes to making mistakes) to his guys with NBA aspirations.


Finally, if Willis makes the same mistakes as Dakari you think Cal is letting Willis play through those mistakes? I realize Willis isn't a 5-star, but he's not chopped liver.

And i get your point, you give a longer leash to the player with the highest ceiling. But when it comes to 4 and 5-stars it can be a toss up.

Cal reminds me of Sparky Anderson. He had 8 starters and didn't want to hear any crap from the bench because if he lost he wanted to lose with his best in the game.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Deng Adel will actually probably start for them, but it'll be as a 4. They say he is a big time defender, and he's a top 50 guy too, but I don't see how he and Murray will affect each other. But Louisville's gonna be a lot better than some think. I know they lost a whole lot but Damion Lee and Trey Lewis are both studs. Like 15-20pt per game guys. Then they got Donovan Mitchell, Deng Adel, Quinton Snider too. And if one of Onuako or Mathiang can play good defense and give them 6-7pts, 5-6rbs then they'll be borderline top 10 all year. My buddy that's a big UL guy thinks one of their foreign kids may break out but I don't know anything about them other than that one Egyptian kid playing a little last year.

Figured Johnson would be the 4. They have so many 5's cannot see all of them staying. But Murray is so explosive offensively cannot see many on that roster checking him. If Deng is as great defender as they say he is he would have to be on Murray as least part of the time. Is he laterally quick enough to stay in front of Murray is the main question to the answer?

 

[Bigblueforever]

Are those 2 of Rick's 8 NBA players?

There is not one UofL player that I am concerned about. They have a mid-pack Horizon League roster.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

You never can believe when 15tino says player xyz is the best or one of the best he has ever had at skill abc.

 

[CUT-NETS]

@weatherbird good points and I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying. You have to give the guys with the higher ceiling more of a chance because ultimately they are the only ones who can lead you to the promise lands (although you could argue that kids like Hawkins could also be very valuable in winning a title much like a Cameron Mills, or even a Jeff Shep who wasn't a 5-star IIRC and was FF MVP)

I could argue though that James Young's lack of awareness and understanding of where to be cost us a national title. Which of course anyone could argue we would not be there without him as evidenced by the shot he made against Wichita St. (which you referenced) coming out of the time out. If you'll recall, in that title game Young was guarding the shooter, a white kid that spotted up in the corner and banged down a couple of dagger threes against us. Why did he make these shots? Wel for one he was essentially wide open. Scouting report would say "don't help off the shooter". And what did James Young do over and over again? He sagged off the shooter to dig at the guard penetrating with the ball, and like taking candy from a baby the guard kicked out to the wide open shooter (and the one guy you don't want to leave wide open) for some knock down threes that proved fatal for UK and their title hopes.

My point with all this? Why was James Young so out of position? Did he not know that he was supposed to stay on the shooter and not help off? He probably knew it, but just had a lapse. Why did he have the lapse? Well he's probably been doing that all year, and simply "playing through it". No fear of punishment or no real understanding of how big of a no-no this is.

The point Im making with sitting these guys is that its the only way to teach them a lot of times. Sure, against Auburn you sag of the shooter and that shooter bangs down 2-3 threes you still win by 25 and no one cares. You can afford to make that mistake, maddening as it may be. You get in the national title game and you haven't learned, then it costs you a title. I could kill James Young for his terrible defense in the title game that year. God himself couldn't convince me that it didn't cost us the title. Go back and watch and you'll see what Im talking about……if you can stomach it.

Ultimately, I feel like its a fine line in letting these guys play right through mistakes for their benefit, and that later coming back to haunt us. I think as soon as a kid drives wildly to the basket firing a shot off the backboard and then falling down (Archie Goodwin), boom, you sit by me until you figure out that you're not supposed to do that. As soon as a kid makes a turnover on a terrible post-entry pass, or helps off when they're supposed to stay home (looking at you James), boom, sit by me until you figure out you can't do that. This shows how important it is that these kids not make these mistakes. Playing through it might help them to maintain confidence in a way, but how do we know they learned not to make the same mistake? Now I understand that Cal pulls kids for mistakes (the Harrisons over body language etc) but it seems that Marcus Lee doesn't get to play through his mistakes. Why is that? Is it because he's a 2-3 year guy? Thats what Im trying to figure out.

I mean you and @brianpoe have essentially admitted that players under Cal do indeed get to play through their mistakes and do indeed get a longer leash. You yourself said it. So why doesn't a kid like Marcus Lee get that same long leash. I know your rebuttal would be, well Marcus' mistakes are more costly. I just don't agree with that.

 

[Clive Gollings]

Isn't this same converstation in two threads?

 

[CUT-NETS]

Isn't this same converstation in two threads?

Yes

 

[21Goose]

@weatherbird good points and I understand where you are coming from and what you are saying. You have to give the guys with the higher ceiling more of a chance because ultimately they are the only ones who can lead you to the promise lands (although you could argue that kids like Hawkins could also be very valuable in winning a title much like a Cameron Mills, or even a Jeff Shep who wasn't a 5-star IIRC and was FF MVP)

I could argue though that James Young's lack of awareness and understanding of where to be cost us a national title. Which of course anyone could argue we would not be there without him as evidenced by the shot he made against Wichita St. (which you referenced) coming out of the time out. If you'll recall, in that title game Young was guarding the shooter, a white kid that spotted up in the corner and banged down a couple of dagger threes against us. Why did he make these shots? Wel for one he was essentially wide open. Scouting report would say "don't help off the shooter". And what did James Young do over and over again? He sagged off the shooter to dig at the guard penetrating with the ball, and like taking candy from a baby the guard kicked out to the wide open shooter (and the one guy you don't want to leave wide open) for some knock down threes that proved fatal for UK and their title hopes.

My point with all this? Why was James Young so out of position? Did he not know that he was supposed to stay on the shooter and not help off? He probably knew it, but just had a lapse. Why did he have the lapse? Well he's probably been doing that all year, and simply "playing through it". No fear of punishment or no real understanding of how big of a no-no this is.

The point Im making with sitting these guys is that its the only way to teach them a lot of times. Sure, against Auburn you sag of the shooter and that shooter bangs down 2-3 threes you still win by 25 and no one cares. You can afford to make that mistake, maddening as it may be. You get in the national title game and you haven't learned, then it costs you a title. I could kill James Young for his terrible defense in the title game that year. God himself couldn't convince me that it didn't cost us the title. Go back and watch and you'll see what Im talking about……if you can stomach it.

Ultimately, I feel like its a fine line in letting these guys play right through mistakes for their benefit, and that later coming back to haunt us. I think as soon as a kid drives wildly to the basket firing a shot off the backboard and then falling down (Archie Goodwin), boom, you sit by me until you figure out that you're not supposed to do that. As soon as a kid makes a turnover on a terrible post-entry pass, or helps off when they're supposed to stay home (looking at you James), boom, sit by me until you figure out you can't do that. This shows how important it is that these kids not make these mistakes. Playing through it might help them to maintain confidence in a way, but how do we know they learned not to make the same mistake? Now I understand that Cal pulls kids for mistakes (the Harrisons over body language etc) but it seems that Marcus Lee doesn't get to play through his mistakes. Why is that? Is it because he's a 2-3 year guy? Thats what Im trying to figure out.

I mean you and @brianpoe have essentially admitted that players under Cal do indeed get to play through their mistakes and do indeed get a longer leash. You yourself said it. So why doesn't a kid like Marcus Lee get that same long leash. I know your rebuttal would be, well Marcus' mistakes are more costly. I just don't agree with that.

I'd say any star on any team gets to play through mistakes. The reason Marcus Lee (and I love him) doesn't get to play more is because the people in front of him are better. Better in games and I'm guessing better in practice. I could count on 1 hand how many baskets he has made that were not a layup or dunk. He was 8-25 from the free throw line so he couldn't be in any tight game down the stretch.

I too would get pissed at Goodwin at times but who would you put in for him? Twany and Harrow were out most of the year. That left Polson, Hood, Long, Malone, and Mays. IMO Cal thought Teague was coming back and only signed 1 pg in Harrow, he didn't play and that left Goodwin playing out of position. Polson could have maybe played more (he played 14 minutes a game), but do you think he was the answer? Cal's system is great with the oad but this is one year where it didn't work out.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Yep, the poser known as cut nets pulls this pathetic shit in every damn thread. He is trolling like crazy every damn day. No matter the topic he comes in with his bullshit Calipari bashing.

Oh is it that one? I saw Brian "talking to himself" and then realized he was talking to a poster I have on ignore. Everyone put people like Cut Nets and 3rex (who a mod said he banned, yay!), and the world will be a better place.

 

[weatherbird]

@CUT-NETS it is pretty simple to understand. You take what the guys give you, and what they cost you, and you play the ones who give you the best chance to win. Yes Young left a shooter in the corner, and cost us 6 points, something someone else on the bench could have taken away. But is those same bench players going to give you 25 points on the other end? That answer is no. That is why he played. Yes even the superstars make mistakes, so you have to decide if what they give you is worth what they cost. In this case, the obvious answer is yes, you live with the 6 points he gave up, for the 25 he put in. The other thing is that Cal wants his players to play with instinct. So when the Superstars make mistakes, then you jerk them, they lose confidense, start questioning themselves, turn into 3 year players that just get worse or at least don't improve. Then you have a Louisville type program. Cal doesn't tear them down, which is what you are suggesting. That's why players want to play for him.

 

[CUT-NETS]

@CUT-NETS it is pretty simple to understand. You take what the guys give you, and what they cost you, and you play the ones who give you the best chance to win. Yes Young left a shooter in the corner, and cost us 6 points, something someone else on the bench could have taken away. But is those same bench players going to give you 25 points on the other end? That answer is no. That is why he played. Yes even the superstars make mistakes, so you have to decide if what they give you is worth what they cost. In this case, the obvious answer is yes, you live with the 6 points he gave up, for the 25 he put in. The other thing is that Cal wants his players to play with instinct. So when the Superstars make mistakes, then you jerk them, they lose confidense, start questioning themselves, turn into 3 year players that just get worse or at least don't improve. Then you have a Louisville type program. Cal doesn't tear them down, which is what you are suggesting. That's why players want to play for him.

I see what you are saying, but I think you are missing my point. I'm not suggesting you pull a player FOREVER over a mistake (and miss out on the 25 points they give you as you mentioned with Young). I'm saying yanking a player after a mistake is a method of teaching them to not do it again. And Cal's method seems to not be in favor of that, unless of course it's Marcus Lee but I digress on that for a moment. My God some of you are acting like this is the dumbest thing you've ever heard while coaches, successful coaches mind you, have been doing this since the beginning of time. I mean damn is it really that crazy of a notion that I think Cal should rip these guys out of a game if they make a mistake? As opposed to them playing through it and "potentially" NOT learning from it. Evidently James Young didn't learn that he should not sag off a great three point shooter.

Look I get it, players will make mistakes. So if you are suggesting to not take them out when they make mistakes, just when do you pull them?

 

[brianpoe]

I see what you are saying, but I think you are missing my point. I'm not suggesting you pull a player FOREVER over a mistake (and miss out on the 25 points they give you as you mentioned with Young). I'm saying yanking a player after a mistake is a method of teaching them to not do it again. And Cal's method seems to not be in favor of that, unless of course it's Marcus Lee but I digress on that for a moment. My God some of you are acting like this is the dumbest thing you've ever heard while coaches, successful coaches mind you, have been doing this since the beginning of time. I mean damn is it really that crazy of a notion that I think Cal should rip these guys out of a game if they make a mistake? As opposed to them playing through it and "potentially" NOT learning from it. Evidently James Young didn't learn that he should not sag off a great three point shooter.

Look I get it, players will make mistakes. So if you are suggesting to not take them out when they make mistakes, just when do you pull them?

It is interesting that you think Cal has never pulled star players for making mistakes....

 

[Blue Decade]

Will be an interesting matchup. Murray one of the very best offensive players and now Pitino comes out and says Deng is one of the best defensive players he has ever had. For those that have seen Deng play is this a situation we need to start being concerned about? Is he really that good that he could slow an offensive machine like Murray down?

Briscoe and Mitchell could be a good matchup because they are both strong. But Briscoe to me looks like the one of the toughest and physical guards we have had in a long time. Briscoe is down right mean, he will be a tough matchup for everyone all year.

LOL!! We will blow Louisville out.

 

[weatherbird]

A longer leash doesn't mean an infinite leash. And again, you have to weigh the pros and cons of leaving them in. I don't care what Cal tries to tell you, he is trying to win every game, and he is trying to win a championship. As with young, since he was pretty much the only offense we had in that game, you don't pull him because he left a shooter once or twice. It doesn't matter if you continue to stop the other team, if you can't score, you can't close the gap. The guys with less talent get a shorter leash because there is someone sitting on the bench with more talent that can make the same mistakes the lesser talented guys make. With Lee, he gets a shorter leash because there was a couple of lottery picks on the bench that can make the same mistakes, only they give you more in other areas. And to address the not pulling them forever, Cal has done a pretty good job of determining who he can pull, and teach the way you are implying, without hurting their confidence, and who he can't do that to because of confidence issues. Cal is with the team every day, so he knows a lot more about them than we do as fans. Put in Cal's position, you might choose to do the same things Cal is.