MKG or Mashburn?
- Thread starter JimboBBN
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That's with a career riddled with injuries too. He was very good in the NBA. He was a superstar at Kentucky though.
Mashburn! Ignoring what he meant to the program at that time, most would still him one of the best 3-4 Wildcats of all time. We had the discussion just a week or two ago that list would be Issel, Mashburn & Davis. MKG isn't even in the discussion for that list.
Shooting: not even close, Mashburn was a good shooter, MKG was not a good shooter at all
Scoring: Mashburn was an elite all-around scorer even though opponents knew he was the focus of the offense, MKG was an ok scorer (good finisher)
Ballhandling: this one is close, but I would give Mashburn the edge here, he brought the ball up for us some vs the press, MKG wasn't a bad ballhandler but Mash was slightly better
Rebounding: even. Mashburn wasn't as good a rebounder as he probably should have been given his 6'8 240 body
Defense: MKG was a very good defender, Mashburn was an ok defender
I loved them both.
I'd give the slight edge to Mash but it feels like a lot of people are selling MKG short on his talent and accomplishments in his one year at UK. He was drafted 2nd in the NBA for a reason. The only person drafted ahead of him was Davis, who had arguably the most accomplished single season in college basketball ever.
I'd give MKG the edge in rebounding, especially when you consider his size and that we only saw him as a freshmen. Had he stuck around and stayed healthy then he likely would have averaged close to a double-double sophomore - senior year.
Shooting and scoring go hand-and-hand. It's like saying MKG was better at blocking out and at rebounding.
MKG was one of the best finishers and defenders at the small forward position to ever play at UK.
I still remember his 24 point, 19 rebound game against a very talented UL team like it was yesterday. Plus, he completely shut down a very talented point guard in Siva. That same UL team went on to win a fake championship the next year.
MKG is one of my top three all-time favorite Cats, along side DA and KAT. (Yeah, all three are recognizable by their initials alone.)
But to answer your question..............Mashburn. Hands down. He literally could play every single position. And do it well. He's the most versatile player I ever remember seeing play at UK. He could do it all.
But to answer your question..............Mashburn. Hands down. He literally could play every single position. And do it well. He's the most versatile player I ever remember seeing play at UK. He could do it all.
Mashburn was by far the better offensive player. Clearly MKG was the better defender.
If the question is "which one, individually, was the better player", then IMHO the answer is Mashburn. But, if the question is, "if you're putting together a team of five and you get first pick as between Mash and MKG, who do you take" then I would take MKG because he made everybody that he played with better. I'm not sure that can be said about Mash.
If the question is "which one, individually, was the better player", then IMHO the answer is Mashburn. But, if the question is, "if you're putting together a team of five and you get first pick as between Mash and MKG, who do you take" then I would take MKG because he made everybody that he played with better. I'm not sure that can be said about Mash.
Seriously? Mash didn't make people better. Looked at what he accomplished with the teammates he had. He made everyone much much better.
Mashburn but not by a mile both were stars I would put mash one of the top ten best at Kentucky and I've watched since 1970.
Yeah, because all those 5 stars and NBA picks Mash played with...
I dont complain about your anti-Cal posts, but this simply involved actually watching games.
How a SF who couldnt shoot or dribble but hustled and played great defense, made teammates better (who were the #1 draft pick, a lotto draft pick and 2 other draft picks)...
made everybody better more than Mashburn and what he accomplished with his teammates...???
Really, just a bad take, even for you Rip.
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I guess Anthony Bennett has a slight edge too...?
MKG was taken 2nd in a random NBA draft, and it has been considered a bad pick since, so that had nothing to do with it. Although Beal has been decent, Waiters and Robinson are garbage.
In fact, had MKG been in the 93 draft he too would have went after Webber (POY), the 6'7 PG Penny, the 7'6 giant Bradley AND Mashburn.
Also, JR Rider and Calbert Cheaney would have been tough to beat out for MKG.
But the draft has nothing to do with it, as much as we all love MKG - this is like comparing Rondo and John Wall. Rondo was a very solid PG and even better NBA player... but let's be serious.
I gave Mash the edge, not MKG. So, I'm not sure how that relates to Anthony Bennett?
Don't you think MKG's injuries in the pros have contributed to him underachieving?
To say it's comparable to Rondo vs Wall is crazy, especially if it's based on their UK career. MKG was considered by many to be the leader of that championship team, as a FRESHMAN! He's the one that got the team doing early morning workouts. He's the one that guarded four different positions on the floor. He's the one that had the key block at the end of the Kansas game. He's the one that completely shut down Siva, a very good college PG, twice that season. He also had one of the best all around games ever by a freshman at UK, against UL in the regular season. MKG was a second team All American, as a freshman.
Rondo, as talented as he was, was always considered a distraction for his UK teams. MKG maximized his teams potential. Did Rondo do that?
Yeah, just like Rondo vs Wall.
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Mashburn's whole rookie season he was a top 5 scorer in the NBA. Before his injuries he was on pace to be even bigger there than he was here.
I gave Mash the edge, not MKG. So, I'm not sure how that relates to Anthony Bennett?
Don't you think MKG's injuries in the pros have contributed to him underachieving?
To say it's comparable to Rondo vs Wall is crazy, especially if it's based on their UK career. MKG was considered by many to be the leader of that championship team, as a FRESHMAN! He's the one that got the team doing early morning workouts. He's the one that guarded four different positions on the floor. He's the one that had the key block at the end of the Kansas game. He's the one that completely shut down Siva, a very good college PG, twice that season. He also had one of the best all around games ever by a freshman at UK, against UL in the regular season. MKG was a second team All American, as a freshman.
Rondo, as talented as he was, was always considered a distraction for his UK teams. MKG maximized his teams potential. Did Rondo do that?
Yeah, just like Rondo vs Wall.
You brought up draft position as if it has any consequence on the subject, my Bennett comment simply implies this fact.
You take MKG off that team and 2012 is still a final four squad with FOUR NBA players (3 first round picks; including the overall #1 and #18).
Take Mash off any of his teams and I'm not sure we have a winning season any of those years.
Block vs Tyshawn Taylor...?
Shut down Flash Siva...?
Seriously?
How about Mash taking on Grant Hill, Laettner, Hurley, Antonio Lang, Brian Davis and Thomas Hill in the SAME GAME?
Mash vs the Fab 5?
Mash vs Cheney, Baily, and Henderson?
Mash vs Malcolm Mackey, Travis Best and Jon Barry?
Mash vs Sweet and Laphonso Ellis?
Mash vs Day, Oliver, Miller and Mayberry?
Mash vs Shaq?
Mash vs Horry, Sprewell and Robinson?
Mash vs Scotty Thurman and Corliss Williamson?
Mash vs Wesley Person?
Mash vs Childress and Rodney Rogers?
Mash vs Sura and Cassell?
Siva and Tyshawn? Goodness gracious, Mash took on multiple great players and was the only target for the opposing team.
MKG had a great game against UL (with Chris Smith and Kyle Kuric starting).
Mash had to be great every game.
There is nothing slight about the comparison, and no, the only injuries that truly hurt MKG was his wounded shooting.
We all love the kid, but this is a non-starter. MKG was a hustle, glue guy that teams love to have. Mash was a superstar. It's not close.
I feel silly having to even defend this.
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Mash
Top two or three greatest to ever lace em up at Kentucky.
Top two or three greatest to ever lace em up at Kentucky.
Without a doubt in my mind, it is Jamal Mashburn,one of the best to play at Kentucky.
I'm still trying to figure out what you're defending? I said in my first and second post that I gave Mashburn the edge over MKG! So, what are you defending? That you compared MKG to Rondo? I'd love to hear more about that comparison.
I'm just amazed at how you call MKG a "glue guy".
24 points and 19 rebounds against UL
17 and 11 against UNC
17 and 12 against Tennessee
14 and 11 against Georgia
13 and 13 against Florida
24 and 10 against Indiana
First team all SEC.
First team NCAA Final Four.
Second Team All American.
Not bad for a freshman "glue guy".
He might not be on the level of Mashburn but I don't think he's far behind. Had he stayed for three years and stayed healthy then it could be a different conversation.
The analogy was that Mashburn vs MKG was the equivalent of Wall vs Rondo. Thus, implying that MKG was on a similar level as Rondo which, IMO is a major insult to MKG and what he did for UK.
Rondo was a problem child. MKG was a coaches dream!
I thought it sounded like talent evaluations, not who was popular. While MKG did not have the total game as Mash, he was a winner and I think fans love him for that.
I just don't understand why some (not you) have to belittle MKG's accomplishments in an effort to make Mash look better. They were both amazing players and we'd be very fortunate to have a player on this years team that could one day be in the conversation with either Mash or MKG.
No one wants to belittle a former wildcat, it happens a little when contrasting two players.
I am sorry you do not get the analogy of Rondo and Wall - both great talents, but Wall was a superstar, that was the only point I was trying to make.
MKG was an excellent player - he was the glue guy (heart) for that 2012 team along with DM (experience).
However, I doubt MKG posts great offensive numbers without the supporting cast around him.
He is not slightly behind Mashburn in any way, MKG would not have been able to carry those Mashburn teams. But then again not many would.
He won several awards, as did many others:
First team all SEC. We have had many - the vast majority, not close to Mash
First team NCAA Final Four. Jeff Shepard was FF MOP - not close to Mash
Second Team All American. WCS was a 1st Team AA - not close to Mash
Again, draft selection and honors are difficult to compare in different years.
MKG is a fan favorite, but basketball greatness in a UK uniform? Not sure he is Top 10.
The fact is we have had several great players and we love them all, but realistically there is only a handful that truly outpaces the rest... IMO - Mash, Davis, Issel - then a group with Wall and others before a MKG is brought into the discussion.
Had he stayed longer who knows how great he could have been? But Mash is on a different level and it is not close, or slight.
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I'd sure like to borrow that crystal ball of yours when you're done using it! Truth is that we don't know what the 2012 team would have been like without MKG. Maybe they go 40-0? Maybe they never come together as a strong Team and get beat in the second round. Maybe without a long, talented, 6'8 forward that can guard opposing point guards, they struggle stopping penetration and lose 8 games.
Yes, Mash absolutely carried his teams. What if he played with three other first rounders? Would he have still put up similar numbers or would they have been spread out more? Truth is that nobody really knows.
Both were great players that played under very different circumstances. Both helped to get the maximum potential out of their teams, something Rondo certainly struggled with.
Mash had the better overall stats and helped make us relevant again. MKG helped us win a title and had very similar stats to Mash as a freshman:
Mash: 13 points and 7 rebounds
MKG: 12 points and 7.5 rebounds
I give Mash a slight edge but I don't think you could go wrong with either one of them.
You could definitely go wrong and would be wrong.
MKG, Pelphry, Feldhous, Farmer, and Woods would never have faced Duke in the elite 8.
MKG would not have led UK vs the Fab 5 in 93.
Had Mashburn played in 2012, Jones or MKG would have come off the bench.
This would be a lot easier if you just said you never actually watched Mash play, or at least were not old enough to fully appreciate him.
MKG did not carry the Cats offensively, he has not carried his NBA team offensiviely.
MKG is one the greatest kids to ever play for us and you have to love him.
You are very misguided in thinking that these two are remotely close as to being able to carry a team, and not just one game, but an entire season.
Mash had a bullseye on his back EVERY game.
Mash has twice the basketball skills of MKG, with half the athleticism.
The only issue here is that you cannot seem to separate your fandom for MKG's effort plays and superior basketball abilities.
You think MKG is what Charlotte hoped they were getting. He's not.
He's a fantastic person we all love. He played with great passion and hustle. And I hope he has an awesome future.
But, if close is to you is Vince Carter and MJ, then maybe they are kind of close... I just dont see it.
I really, really like Gilchrest, but he is not and will never be on that next level of which Mash played.
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Like I said, I'd love to borrow that crystal ball of yours because you seem pretty confident at predicting hypothetical scenarios as facts.
I was a teenager when Mash played and I saw every game he played in, at least every game televised. He was awesome!
No hypotheticals needed.
MKG and Mash were only 1 inch apart in height, with Gilchrest being much more athletic.
Yet Mash carried teams all season long, with exceptional skills.
Totally different players - MKG did lead by desire and hustle. But we never entered a game saying if MKG is off we dont have a chance. Nor did we ever expect Gilchrest to come up with the big buckets at the end of a game.
Mash carried teams - that cannot be stated enough.
Kenny Walker and Rex Chapman carried teams in a way MKG could not.
I would yield to you that 2012 may be better off simply due to the extraordinary chemistry with MKG instead of Mash.
But I cannot think of another team since 1996 (which didnt need MKG or Mash) that I would choose MKG over Mash if given the choice.
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Mash was Top 5 of all time Cats He was as talented a inside/out player as anyone. IMO MKG was not top 5 , although he was a great player.
Bowie vs AD is an intriguing question. had Big Sam not been injured he may well have been the better of the 2. I'd still take Issel though.... Big Dan could make a lot of men afraid when he played.
Don't ever sleep on Sky Walker either...Sky was a bad, bad man. And the ladies dug him from what I heard.
We been spoiled over the years with awesome talents: Goose, Lee, Robey, Grevey, Rex. Macy, Bennett, Wall, Boogie, KAT, Dampier, Groza, DA. Mercer, Dwight Anderson..... on and on.. amazing!
Bowie vs AD is an intriguing question. had Big Sam not been injured he may well have been the better of the 2. I'd still take Issel though.... Big Dan could make a lot of men afraid when he played.
Don't ever sleep on Sky Walker either...Sky was a bad, bad man. And the ladies dug him from what I heard.
We been spoiled over the years with awesome talents: Goose, Lee, Robey, Grevey, Rex. Macy, Bennett, Wall, Boogie, KAT, Dampier, Groza, DA. Mercer, Dwight Anderson..... on and on.. amazing!
As much as I love MKG, it's really not a hard question to answer for me.
Crystal ball or not, almost every single thread like this usually turns into pissing matches because of disagreements over who is better or which era is better, etc.
I have never seen one so completely one sided. It's not a knock on MKG but you seem to want to make it that way. Mash was a generational talent at UK. MKG was a fantastic player who played on a team that will be talked about for generations. That said, MKG simply wasn't the all around player that Mash was. MKG could be in top 1% of all Cats but that doesn't mean Mash won't be ranked higher.
I love MKG, the heart, hustle and desire he played with every single game but doesn't change my opinion on who was a better Cat and who was/is a better NBA player.
