Mark Stoops: Floor Raiser? Or Ceiling Raiser?

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Something I've wondered with Stoops the last couple years. Seems like he can't seem to quite get over that 9 win regular season hump. Made me think, as wonderful as Stoops has been for this program (I love that man like he's my own family and would run through a wall for him) does he actually raise the ceiling for your program? Or does he simply just raise the floor?

We've seen UK win 8, 9, and 10 games under other coaches (albeit not often), so it can be done. Stoops however, has done it more consistently and (once he got it going) he has had a much high "floor" than other coaches in terms of consistency. I'm curious as to what others think about him.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

I think the QB position has been the main thing not getting over the hump. Several years we have had good enough players everywhere but not that elite big time QB that a lot of the biggest programs always have.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

I think the QB position has been the main thing not getting over the hump. Several years we have had good enough players everywhere but not that elite big time QB that a lot of the biggest programs always have.

That’s my thing about him. In order to truly raise the ceiling of a program, you have to be able to consistently develop QBs, not just rely on 1 or 2 years of a transfer portal guy.

Why hasn’t Stoops been able to do that? He’s had Towles, Barker, and Allen and none of them appeared to get any better under his regime? Realistically, the best QBs he’s had were Johnson and Levis.

I think we are far enough removed to admit Terry Wilson was putrid. He just had SO much talent around him and such a loaded defense than anybody could have won 9 games playing QB that season.

 

[mrschwump]

For the umpteenth time Drew Barker had a career ending back injury, can't hang that on Stoops. Even Towles missed significant PT due to injury. Dig a little harder OP, I know things have been rough for U6.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

For the umpteenth time Drew Barker had a career ending back injury, can't hang that on Stoops. Even Towles missed significant PT due to injury. Dig a little harder OP, I know things have been rough for U6.

Why are you so triggered? I'm simply asking a question as a fan and season ticket holder? I'm not advocating for getting rid of Stoops.

I know Barker had the injury and Towles had some injuries too, but neither were lighting the world on fire BEFORE they got hurt either. It's not a stretch to say the QB position has been the common weakness amongst all the Stoops teams at Kentucky. Why are you so offended by that factual statement?

Who hurt you? Do I need to recommend a therapist for you? Seems like you've got a lot of pent up anger issues.

 

[gamalielkid]

Why are you so triggered? I'm simply asking a question as a fan and season ticket holder? I'm not advocating for getting rid of Stoops.

I know Barker had the injury and Towles had some injuries too, but neither were lighting the world on fire BEFORE they got hurt either. It's not a stretch to say the QB position has been the common weakness amongst all the Stoops teams at Kentucky. Why are you so offended by that factual statement?

Who hurt you? Do I need to recommend a therapist for you? Seems like you've got a lot of pent up anger issues.

Barker - wasn't setting the world on fire? Did you see his first game? 4 touchdown passes in first half! Got hurt and basically ended his career for all intent and purposes in the 3rd quarter of that first game. Barker could have been a first round draft pick had he not been injured. Towles took a beating - he was a much more physical guy - but he was not protected either. When we have had the line - we haven;t had a QB, when we have had a QB the line has struggled. Hopefully this is the year we have both!

Go Big Blue!

 

[mrschwump]

Why are you so triggered? I'm simply asking a question as a fan and season ticket holder? I'm not advocating for getting rid of Stoops.

I know Barker had the injury and Towles had some injuries too, but neither were lighting the world on fire BEFORE they got hurt either. It's not a stretch to say the QB position has been the common weakness amongst all the Stoops teams at Kentucky. Why are you so offended by that factual statement?

Who hurt you? Do I need to recommend a therapist for you? Seems like you've got a lot of pent up anger issues.

Already pissed away enough of my day on you troll. Bye.

 

[R.O.T.Muckinfush]

What's the difference? I'm too dumb to understand

 

[gamecockcat]

I think lack of QB development can be laid at the feet of our QB coach. Gran was a good OC but the guy coaching QBs (I forget his name now) was awful. None of our QBs under his tutelage got much/any better. Offensive system wasn't always conducive to recruiting top flight HS QBs, either. I feel very strongly that Coen is the guy to fix that problem - both as an OC and a QB coach.

 

[Deeeefense]

Since his time here Stoops has been successfully at raising the floor based on exceptional defense and a solid running game. However that formula has a ceiling of about 8-9 regular season wins. However by bringing Coen in for the 2021 season he made a strong move to establish a high scoring offense to go with the defense. We are entering the 3rd year of that move and we have now assembled a very strong cast of offensive skill players. Do we now have enough to raise the ceiling? Let's hope so, but getting past 9 wins means beating the Tennessees, Floridas and Georgia as well as just about everyone else on the schedule without a let down. That's a tough challenge but they may be up to it.

 

[trueblujr2]

Something I've wondered with Stoops the last couple years. Seems like he can't seem to quite get over that 9 win regular season hump. Made me think, as wonderful as Stoops has been for this program (I love that man like he's my own family and would run through a wall for him) does he actually raise the ceiling for your program? Or does he simply just raise the floor?

We've seen UK win 8, 9, and 10 games under other coaches (albeit not often), so it can be done. Stoops however, has done it more consistently and (once he got it going) he has had a much high "floor" than other coaches in terms of consistency. I'm curious as to what others think about him.

I think the ceiling has definitely been raised, but it can obviously go higher. No longer do we go into a season knowing or thinking it's going to be a losing one. We are at the point where we can almost assume or count on at least 7 wins, if not 8. To get over the hump, we will need to eliminate our annual stinker of a game. (USC/Vandy last year, MSU year before, etc.) and we will eventually have to pull off a monumental upset of somebody like UGA or Bama, Make an SEC championship game or possibly be ranked high enough to get into the expanded playoffs. I think those are things that will help elevate things another notch.

 

[Fadhi]

What's the difference? I'm too dumb to understand

Floor raiser means the expectations are now higher.
Ceiling raiser means the program is moving up to a new tier with the big boys

Its an interesting question. I feel Stoops hasnt beaten the top echelon SEC teams such as Georgia,Tennessee(this year), Bama, TA&M.
He has beaten the teams he should and top programs when they are weak (LSU,Florida)

The Florida wins in the swamp are great though.

He may have just raised the floor to this point. He really needs to beat a team similar to when Rich Brooks took out top dog LSU in Lexington back in the day and thats gonna take a little bit of a boost on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Floor raiser means the expectations are now higher.
Ceiling raiser means the program is moving up to a new tier with the big boys

Its an interesting question. I feel Stoops hasnt beaten the top echelon SEC teams such as Georgia,Tennessee(this year), Bama, TA&M.
He has beaten the teams he should and top programs when they are weak (LSU,Florida)

The Florida wins in the swamp are great though.

He may have just raised the floor to this point. He really needs to beat a team similar to when Rich Brooks took out top dog LSU in Lexington back in the day and thats gonna take a little bit of a boost on the offensive side of the ball.

But the Florida wins, even in the Swamp, have come against Florida teams that (while stacked with talent) are obviously not the level of Florida teams we were accustomed to under Meyer.

I define "floor raiser" as somebody who is guaranteed to lose you fewer games because they're always (generally) going to beat the teams they're better than and beat teams who they are even with the majority of the time.

A "ceiling raiser" is somebody who can help your program win a championship and/or beat teams with some regularity that are better than their own. Which Stoops hasn't really done (Primarily UGA is who I'm referring to).

 

[ganner918]

Both. 7 straight seasons being at least decent, winning 3+ conference games and making a bowl, is more consistency than we've had since Bryant. And considering we'd had zero winning seasons in conference in my life and have done it twice in 5 years, I'd also call that a ceiling raise. Not raised far - 5 wins vs 4 isn't a long way, but it is still a raise. So I'd say the both, but the floor raised higher than the ceiling.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Both. 7 straight seasons being at least decent, winning 3+ conference games and making a bowl, is more consistency than we've had since Bryant. And considering we'd had zero winning seasons in conference in my life and have done it twice in 5 years, I'd also call that a ceiling raise. Not raised far - 5 wins vs 4 isn't a long way, but it is still a raise. So I'd say the both, but the floor raised higher than the ceiling.

This man gets it! I think this is the perfect description of what Stoops has done. To draw an analogy to bourbon (ya know, since its Kentucky and all). He's turned us into "Weller's" Green Label when we were struggling to even be Maker's Mark before, and were Kentucky Gentleman under the last year and change of Joker Phillips 🤮. However, he has not elevated us to Pappy Van Winkle, nor would I even say we are even truly "Blanton's" yet.

But, I will say that while we may not BE Blanton's, we've had TWO seasons under Stoops where we got to taste test it 🤣😂

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

I will say this, y'all are so much more civilized, educated, and less toxic than the basketball message board crowd is lol. I've genuinely enjoyed the respectful exchanges I've had in this thread. The one idiot excluded lol. The rest of y'all are awesome!

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Floor raiser means the expectations are now higher.
Ceiling raiser means the program is moving up to a new tier with the big boys

Its an interesting question. I feel Stoops hasnt beaten the top echelon SEC teams such as Georgia,Tennessee(this year), Bama, TA&M.
He has beaten the teams he should and top programs when they are weak (LSU,Florida)

The Florida wins in the swamp are great though.

He may have just raised the floor to this point. He really needs to beat a team similar to when Rich Brooks took out top dog LSU in Lexington back in the day and thats gonna take a little bit of a boost on the offensive side of the ball.

And don't forget Brook's team had a big win AT UGA a couple years after that LSU win too. And nearly beat the Florida Fighting Tim Tebow's at home Woodson's senior year. Brooks may not have had the extended consistency that Stoops has had, but he absolute had better offenses that could beat anyone (or lose to anyone, see the MSU game Woodson's senior year) on any given night. That crowd against LSU and then Florida that next week were absolutely electric!!!

 

[R.O.T.Muckinfush]

Floor raiser means the expectations are now higher.
Ceiling raiser means the program is moving up to a new tier with the big boys

Its an interesting question. I feel Stoops hasnt beaten the top echelon SEC teams such as Georgia,Tennessee(this year), Bama, TA&M.
He has beaten the teams he should and top programs when they are weak (LSU,Florida)

The Florida wins in the swamp are great though.

He may have just raised the floor to this point. He really needs to beat a team similar to when Rich Brooks took out top dog LSU in Lexington back in the day and thats gonna take a little bit of a boost on the offensive side of the ball.

Floor raiser.... he has built the program to a point but can't win the big games.

 

[WildcatofNati]

Interesting points from the OP. But let the record reflect a join date of  yesterday.

 

[CB3UK]

Hes certainly raised the floor of expectations, but the ceiling has been raised too. Never thought I'd see us beat Penn State or win 10 games etc.

Getting those 10th, 11th, 12th wins.....its so tough. It's why only so many programs do it consistently. You've gotta have the players to do it coming in every year. I just don't know if recruiting at that level will ever be possible at Kentucky outside of some outrageous upgrade in NIL payments.

 

[K_TIME]

For the umpteenth time Drew Barker had a career ending back injury, can't hang that on Stoops. Even Towles missed significant PT due to injury. Dig a little harder OP, I know things have been rough for U6.

And he was nothing to right home about his first year at Qb1…so why make him to be some Peyton manning part II

 

[Soupbean]

Something I've wondered with Stoops the last couple years. Seems like he can't seem to quite get over that 9 win regular season hump. Made me think, as wonderful as Stoops has been for this program (I love that man like he's my own family and would run through a wall for him) does he actually raise the ceiling for your program? Or does he simply just raise the floor?

We've seen UK win 8, 9, and 10 games under other coaches (albeit not often), so it can be done. Stoops however, has done it more consistently and (once he got it going) he has had a much high "floor" than other coaches in terms of consistency. I'm curious as to what others think about him.

Great question and I've commented on it before by using the analogy of a spring being compressed and pushed down. The effort to move the floor isnt nearly as much as is needed to move the ceiling. You can move the spring easier the first few inches but it gets harder to press it further the farther down you go. This is especially true in the conference we play in.

So no doubt Stoops has been a floor raiser and I think he has been a ceiling raiser too but its much harder to see that in acual wins and losses with the debth of other teams in our conference. For instance I thjnk the program continues to increase in strenth and potential but when you are battling 6 or seven teams that are almost just like you it wont always show in games won. On the flip side it doens alwasy mean your losing ground either just because you have one or two less losses than others.

Outside of Alabama and Georgia I think we have joined those 6 or 7 others who any give year can jump into that 3rd spot with the right one or two playmakers and one or two good breaks. So without those things happenign we could finish 8th in the conference and in reality be just as good as number 3 or 4 and complete head to head with them. The other 6 or 7 teams can say the same thing though.

So maybe a better way to say it is, Yes Stoops and Co have us in position to raise our ceiling at any time, its just much harder to push and hold that spring down and show number results at the level we've reached.

 

[270Cat]

This man gets it! I think this is the perfect description of what Stoops has done. To draw an analogy to bourbon (ya know, since its Kentucky and all). He's turned us into "Weller's" Green Label when we were struggling to even be Maker's Mark before, and were Kentucky Gentleman under the last year and change of Joker Phillips 🤮. However, he has not elevated us to Pappy Van Winkle, nor would I even say we are even truly "Blanton's" yet.

But, I will say that while we may not BE Blanton's, we've had TWO seasons under Stoops where we got to taste test it 🤣😂

Hahaha we need him to get us to Woodford double-double oak

 

[BlueRaider22]

He’s very obviously both. In the 60-70 years between Bear and Stoops we averaged about 4 wins a yr. And we averaged an 8+ win season about once a decade.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Hahaha we need him to get us to Woodford double-double oak

Can I convince you to go EH Taylor instead?

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Great question and I've commented on it before by using the analogy of a spring being compressed and pushed down. The effort to move the floor isnt nearly as much as is needed to move the ceiling. You can move the spring easier the first few inches but it gets harder to press it further the farther down you go. This is especially true in the conference we play in.

So no doubt Stoops has been a floor raiser and I think he has been a ceiling raiser too but its much harder to see that in acual wins and losses with the debth of other teams in our conference. For instance I thjnk the program continues to increase in strenth and potential but when you are battling 6 or seven teams that are almost just like you it wont always show in games won. On the flip side it doens alwasy mean your losing ground either just because you have one or two less losses than others.

Outside of Alabama and Georgia I think we have joined those 6 or 7 others who any give year can jump into that 3rd spot with the right one or two playmakers and one or two good breaks. So without those things happenign we could finish 8th in the conference and in reality be just as good as number 3 or 4 and complete head to head with them. The other 6 or 7 teams can say the same thing though.

So maybe a better way to say it is, Yes Stoops and Co have us in position to raise our ceiling at any time, its just much harder to push and hold that spring down and show number results at the level we've reached.

Yes, this is the exact right point. Getting your program to 9-10 wins is fairly common. The jump your program has to make to get to 11-12 regular season wins is so much larger than it is to go from 3-4 wins.

 

[The-Hack]

We've seen UK win 8, 9, and 10 games under other coaches (albeit not often)

You would have to be at least 77 years old to honestly say you had “seen” 10 wins under “other coaches,” and at that, you would have been four years old when Bear Bryant pulled it off in 1950.

Given that RevolutionizetgeGame first posted yesterday morning and has 50+ posts, I suspect the old fellow needs his rest, now.

 

[The-Hack]

but neither were lighting the world on fire BEFORE they got hurt either.

Troll!!

Or terribly unobservant season ticket holder.

Barker had over 340 yards passing in the first half of the Southern Miss. game in which he sustained his injury.

And Lorenzen established School
and SEC records when healthy.

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Troll!!

Or terribly unobservant season ticket holder.

Barker had over 340 yards passing in the first half of the Southern Miss. game in which he sustained his injury.

And Lorenzen established School
and SEC records when healthy.

Lorenzen didn’t play for Stoops…troll

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

You would have to be at least 77 years old to honestly say you had “seen” 10 wins under “other coaches,” and at that, you would have been four years old when Bear Bryant pulled it off in 1950.

Given that RevolutionizetgeGame first posted yesterday morning and has 50+ posts, I suspect the old fellow needs his rest, now.

I said “we’ve” as in the fan base. I didn’t say me specifically. I get that you’re a product of KY public education, but try to be better man. We’ll get you some hooked on phonics and get you back up to grade level reading in no time!

 

[The-Hack]

We’ll get you some hooked on phonics and get you back up to grade level reading in no time!

Old man, I’m the product of Kentucky’s private education system.

Get some sleep!!

You might delve into “Hooked in Phonics”and learn that the use of the pronoun “we,” includes the speaker!!

If I say/write “we’ve been to town,” then obviously I am saying I along with at least one other “has been to town.”

There’s no sin in being 77 years old!!

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Old man, I’m the product of Kentucky’s private education system.

Get some sleep!!

You might delve into “Hooked in Phonics”and learn that the use of the pronoun “we,” includes the speaker!!

Ahhh well that REALLY explains it. To busy reading that giant work of fiction called the Bible to actually read intellectual work. Makes total sense. Hey, btw, where did the priest touch you?

 

[The-Hack]

Makes total sense. Hey, btw, where did the priest touch you?

Lol.

Centre College is Presbyterian.

Presbyterians don’t even touch themselves!

Were there neither private schools nor colleges in your early era of life save for Catholic schools?

 

[The-Hack]

You’re not mad at me sir, you’re mad at Father Peter who violated your trusted and touched your peter. It’s ok man, it’s time to let it go and forgive.

Sounds like a voice of experience!

Pray tell, old ancient one, what storied educational system, public or private, produced you?

Given your age, I’m surprised it has taken you so long to discover the internet!

“We’ve” been posting on the Lair for decades, now!

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Sounds like a voice of experience!

Pray tell, old ancient one, what storied educational system, public or private, produced you?

Given your age, I’m surprised it has taken you so long to discover the internet!

“We’ve” been posting on the Lair for decades, now!

Lol buddy, I’m younger than you. I guarantee it. But hey, anybody can take the ACT at any age. I’m more than happy to wager some money on who scores the highest. I’ll even cover your fee. Whatcha say? $200? $500?

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

Lol.

Centre College is Presbyterian.

Presbyterians don’t even touch themselves!

Were there neither private schools nor colleges in your early era of life save for Catholic schools?

Centre isn’t even that good of a school lol. I mean it is for this state given the context of other educational options, but it’s not even on the first five pages of Best Universities/Colleges in the country. Hell, Michigan has two STATE schools that are more academically prestigious than Centre 😂

 

[The-Hack]

Lol buddy, I’m younger than you. I guarantee it. But hey, anybody can take the ACT at any age. I’m more than happy to wager some money on who scores the highest. I’ll even cover your fee. Whatcha say? $200? $500?

I never said I had not witnessed the 11 win season in 1950!

Tell you what, make your twenty-thousandth post, and your on!!

 

[The-Hack]

Hell, Michigan has two STATE schools that are more academically prestigious than Centre 😂

So, from Michigan!!

 

[The-Hack]

does he actually raise the ceiling for your program?

In “your” OP, you twice excluded yourself from being a fan of UK.

You may love Mark Stoops, but UK fans refer to his program as “ours.”

Pray tell, who is your program?

 

[RevolutionizeTheGame]

So, from Michigan!!

Nope. From Kentucky. Graduate of Michigan Law School, class of 2006. Magna Cum Laude and recipient of the Henry Bates Memorial Scholarship lol. You can fact check that online. I’m pretty sure the university keeps a registry. There were only 3 of us to receive that award that year lol.

But yea, much more prestigious than your little shit hole school in the shithole town that’s Danville. Lol.