Make the Duke love make sense

[silentsaregolden2.0]

All the pundits I have seen act like Duke is one of, if not, the favorites to win it all. Why? Seriously. They are not that impressive offensively, and their defensive rating is so high because they are destroying their cupcakes. Their first 2 games, they averaged 98, and in the 9 games since they are averaging 74. Against their currently ranked opponents, they have given up 78, 77 and 75.

It must be the Flagg factor, because I am not seeing an overly impressive team.

 

[ukcatz12]

their defensive rating is so high because they are destroying their cupcakes

Advanced metrics adjust for opponents. So on Kenpom when they're second in defensive efficiency, that means after adjusting the stats for their cupcakes they're the second best in the country. They have a top 12 offense and defense. They beat an elite team in Auburn and their two losses are by a combined eight points to two top 10 teams.

I know we all hate Duke here, but if you look at it objectively you must admit they're a great team.

 

[michaeluk26]

Bro it's always been terrible, but this year it's egregiously bad. It's non stop, over the top shit this year.

 

[UK90]

I know we all hate Duke here, but if you look at it objectively you must admit they're a great team.

Great? That’s one of the more overly-generous uses of that word I’ve seen.

No, we absolutely do not have to “admit” that yet. They are good, a ton of talent, easily capable of winning it all. But nobody should be calling them great before they’ve actually done anything great.

 

[uky8unc5]

Great? That’s one of the more overly-generous uses of that word I’ve seen.

No, we absolutely do not have to “admit” that yet. They are good, a ton of talent, easily capable of winning it all. But nobody should be calling them great before they’ve actually done anything great.

Brother, by your definition, nobody is Great. So I'll concede your point.

But they defeated Auburn, who 'looks' great.
They have the best player (Freshman who is improving)
They have the "favor" of intangibles (officiating, media fluffing their egos, etc.)
They had us down 9 at halftime on a neutral floor.

 

[Aike]

They are good. No conspiracy this year. They are also beatable, as we have shown.

 

[uky8unc5]

They are good. No conspiracy this year. They are also beatable, as we have shown.

I am a gambling man, so I know that "Vegas odds" does not mean "Who the Bookies believe will win the Title".

But today...Vegas Top Ten:

+700 - Auburn
+900 - Dook
+1300 - Tennessee
+1400 - Houston
+1600 - UConn
+1600 - Zags
+1600 - Bama
+1600 - Iowa State
+1800 - Kansas
+2100 - Kentucky

 

[LineSkiCat14]

IDK, struggling to put up 25 in a half against George Mason should have really tanked their metrics. Granted George Mason isn't terrible.. there in the range of Lipscomb and WKU (teams we played).. But 25 in a half and 68 to finish the game against a team int he penpom 80's.. I don't know how that DOESN'T hurt the metrics

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

All the pundits I have seen act like Duke is one of, if not, the favorites to win it all. Why? Seriously. They are not that impressive offensively, and their defensive rating is so high because they are destroying their cupcakes. Their first 2 games, they averaged 98, and in the 9 games since they are averaging 74. Against their currently ranked opponents, they have given up 78, 77 and 75.

It must be the Flagg factor, because I am not seeing an overly impressive team.

It's Flagg.

They don't play a single ranked team - as of now - the rest of the SEASON. My word. Their seed will be inflated, per usual, and people will overlook the fact that their resume is soft.

 

[Creed Bratton]

Cooper Flagg is only........

 

[uky8unc5]

IDK, struggling to put up 25 in a half against George Mason should have really tanked their metrics. Granted George Mason isn't terrible.. there in the range of Lipscomb and WKU (teams we played).. But 25 in a half and 68 to finish the game against a team int he penpom 80's.. I don't know how that DOESN'T hurt the metrics

I hear you. I'm not high on Dook myself (to win Title).
But the ACC is soft. And they might run the table in Jan/Feb (or close to it).
I'm betting they will be a 1 going into the Tournament.

 

[uky8unc5]

It's Flagg.

They don't play a single ranked team - as of now - the rest of the SEASON. My word. Their seed will be inflated, per usual, and people will overlook the fact that their resume is soft.

That's what I was saying in my last post.
Dook will reach the Elite 8 almost by default.

 

[Creed Bratton]

That's what I was saying in my last post.
Dook will reach the Elite 8 almost by default.

When the committee lets them play in NC for their first 4 games almost every year it makes it an easier road. Imagine if we got to play in Louisville and Nashville the first 2 weekends every year.

 

[katwest]

Well, the media has always been in on Duke in basketball since Krybaby was coach, just like Notre Dame in football. That is why I hate both schools with a passion. They get help with recruiting because of all the media slobber, always have.

 

[CrimsonCats]

IDK, struggling to put up 25 in a half against George Mason should have really tanked their metrics. Granted George Mason isn't terrible.. there in the range of Lipscomb and WKU (teams we played).. But 25 in a half and 68 to finish the game against a team int he penpom 80's.. I don't know how that DOESN'T hurt the metrics

I admittedly didn’t watch that game, so I don’t know, but it depends somewhat on the pace of the game. Points per game is not a consideration for any of the advanced metrics. If one or both teams were holding the ball for a really long time, and Duke was still scoring on a high number of their possessions in a low possession game, it theoretically wouldn’t hurt them.

 

[CRZ4UK]

The ACC is soft but does that help them???
One problem I believe the SEC has now with winning a championship is the physicality. The officials allow almost a rock fight between teams. Several coaches actually teach fouling 5 times a possession so they can’t call them all.
When the tournament rolls around, the officials don’t allow that. We complain Duke gets all the calls. Maybe SEC teams are just used to those fouls not being called.
Tennessee, South Carolina and A&M will all get into foul trouble in the tournament and be bounced.
Our league needs to be adjusted or the tournament officiating needs to adjust or the SEC will continue to struggle winning it.

 

[Mike-D]

I know good to great teams when I see 'em. I've watched Duke a few times this year, and I don't understand the hype other than some of the talented Freshman. 2018-19 Duke kills this Duke team.

 

[Chief Paducah]

The ACC is soft but does that help them???
One problem I believe the SEC has now with winning a championship is the physicality. The officials allow almost a rock fight between teams. Several coaches actually teach fouling 5 times a possession so they can’t call them all.
When the tournament rolls around, the officials don’t allow that. We complain Duke gets all the calls. Maybe SEC teams are just used to those fouls not being called.
Tennessee, South Carolina and A&M will all get into foul trouble in the tournament and be bounced.
Our league needs to be adjusted or the tournament officiating needs to adjust or the SEC will continue to struggle winning it.

I have said this for years. SEC officiating has killed their teams for years. The gang banging isn't allowed nearly as much in the tourney and things that go uncalled in conference play, gets called in the tourney. If the SEC is a bust again in this tournament with this many good teams, that needs a good hard look going into next season.

 

[BlueSince92]

There’s definitely some hyperbole involved. But that’s been going on so long it doesn’t bother me or surprise me.

They have their share of big, mobile guys with NBA potential. Flagg is legit enough. They beat UL at UL by a little more than we beat UL by at home. They handed Auburn its only loss even if they did play them in Cameron. No reason to bow down and worship them but also no reason to wonder why pundits consider them top 5. Why are we really even talking about this.

 

[UK90]

They have the best player (Freshman who is improving)

Shouldn’t the “best player” be better than a 24% outside shooter?

 

[mcnicKY91]

The best was when Jay Williams said this Duke team is the best he has seen since 2001-02 during halftime of the UK-Duke game. All because Duke had what, a nine point lead?

Haha, what a schmuck.

 

[stenchymouse]

I think that people believe that Duke has the most upside of any other team.

I personally believe that we have more upside than a lot of the "experts" think we have.

 

[rickscot]

All the pundits I have seen act like Duke is one of, if not, the favorites to win it all. Why? Seriously. They are not that impressive offensively, and their defensive rating is so high because they are destroying their cupcakes. Their first 2 games, they averaged 98, and in the 9 games since they are averaging 74. Against their currently ranked opponents, they have given up 78, 77 and 75.

It must be the Flagg factor, because I am not seeing an overly impressivand the Dook Lovefest will continue. Their remaining schedule has them playing just ONE ranked team before tourney time. KY will play 10 ranked teams before the post season.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I admittedly didn’t watch that game, so I don’t know, but it depends somewhat on the pace of the game. Points per game is not a consideration for any of the advanced metrics. If one or both teams were holding the ball for a really long time, and Duke was still scoring on a high number of their possessions in a low possession game, it theoretically wouldn’t hurt them.

Still, if you want to be considered a top5 team.. you can't let George Mason dictate the pace. Elite teams don't let mediocre teams decide how the game will be played. Now, maybe good teams can let that happen, or even great teams from time to time.. but then I would say Duke is more in the 8-15 range CURRENTLY, IMO.

I think that people believe that Duke has the most upside of any other team.

I personally believe that we have more upside than a lot of the "experts" think we have.

I do think Duke has a TON of room to still grow. I certainly won't be surprised if they are a top3 team by years end and even win the title.. but they aren't there yet IMO. And honestly, that's proof from losing two games already and struggling with George Mason the other night. You just can't be a top5 team in this scenario because other teams simply have a better resume (Like UK).

I actually don't love our upside all that much. I believe UK is a little bit of the opposite of Duke: I think this is who we are and this is the talent we have. Not many of these guys have another level to get to or a gear to hit. I do think we can look better and execute better, but that's more so because of Pope's offense and the players adjusting to it. I think Kentucky can still reach a Final4 and maybe win it under the right scenario, but I do believe THIS UK team has a bit of a ceiling we're working with, where as Duke, kind of doesn't.

 

[Bluegrass79]

Duke has to worry about winning all their damn games. If they lose more than two in the ACC they can forget about their little one seed or two seed. They're league ****ing sucks

 

[docholiday51]

Duke is all they have to be. As long as D U K E is on the jersey the media(ESPN) will prop them up

 

[JonathanW]

I don't know why the OP and the rest of you are so hard on Duke and Flagg. How can you not LOVE a guy who makes 41.8% of his FGs, 24.4% of his 3's, and 48.2% of his 2's. His team leading 2.3 TOs/gm further shows his dominance. You clearly just hate Duke and don't get that this is a generational talent, a 3-level scorer who just has trouble on 2 of the 3 levels.

 

[uky8unc5]

Shouldn’t the “best player” be better than a 24% outside shooter?

YES! But it's December. And he will improve as the season progresses.

But let's agree to disagree if you think Flagg is NOT (at least) on the short list.

Mock Drafts 100% agree Cooper has "IT":
Bleacher Report...NBA Draft...CBS Sports...etc.

 

[uky8unc5]

I don't know why the OP and the rest of you are so hard on Duke and Flagg. How can you not LOVE a guy who makes 41.8% of his FGs, 24.4% of his 3's, and 48.2% of his 2's. His team leading 2.3 TOs/gm further shows his dominance. You clearly just hate Duke and don't get that this is a generational talent, a 3-level scorer who just has trouble on 2 of the 3 levels.

Perfect

 

[MasonCoBlue]

Puke is pretty darn good. Beatable...absolutely. But they are a very tuff out. They will be a team to watch come March...It is what it is.

 

[anonymous_2011]

Cooper Flagg turns 18 in two days. At that point it's over for any other college basketball team this year.

 

[DukeDallas9192011015]

When the committee lets them play in NC for their first 4 games almost every year it makes it an easier road. Imagine if we got to play in Louisville and Nashville the first 2 weekends every year.

Duke has played in NC twice since 2012, for 4 games total in the tournament.
They were supposed to play in NC in 2017 but the political bathroom bill pulled the games out of there, which ended up having 2 seeded Duke play South Carolina in....South Carolina.

 

[chroix]

East coast jerk offs default to hyping up whichever of Duke or UConn are doing better. That would be my guess as to an explanation.

 

[UK90]

Mock Drafts 100% agree Cooper has "IT":
Bleacher Report...NBA Draft...CBS Sports...etc.

If this is your evidence, then you have no evidence.

Mock drafts are not about who is currently the best player in college basketball. Instead, they are about who scouts believe will become the best pro in future years after potential has been fulfilled.

 

[Hoskins21]

Duke is definitely overrated. A commentator had the nerve to compare them to our 2012 National Title team. I don't get it.

 

[Blueheart32]

Flagg definitely need to improve the shooting percentage, and likely will but he
filled the stat sheet against No. 2 Auburn: 22 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks and zero turnovers.

No other player (Men's or Women's) has had such a stat line or better against an AP Top 25 opponent in the last 25 seasons.
He impacts the game in a lot more ways than scoring and leads the team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and second in steals. The hatred and constant nitpicking about a kid you’ve never met and that hasn’t done anything to bring it on himself is unreal sometimes.

 

[jedwar]

Duke is good and can be a dangerous out. But they have something against them I'm not sure anyone has mentioned and that is Scheyer. I think he is a mid in game coach, like quite mid.

 

[JFCats22]

Don't we want Duke to be highly thought of and highly rated so that our win over them looks even better???

 

[stenchymouse]

Still, if you want to be considered a top5 team.. you can't let George Mason dictate the pace. Elite teams don't let mediocre teams decide how the game will be played. Now, maybe good teams can let that happen, or even great teams from time to time.. but then I would say Duke is more in the 8-15 range CURRENTLY, IMO.




I do think Duke has a TON of room to still grow. I certainly won't be surprised if they are a top3 team by years end and even win the title.. but they aren't there yet IMO. And honestly, that's proof from losing two games already and struggling with George Mason the other night. You just can't be a top5 team in this scenario because other teams simply have a better resume (Like UK).

I actually don't love our upside all that much. I believe UK is a little bit of the opposite of Duke: I think this is who we are and this is the talent we have. Not many of these guys have another level to get to or a gear to hit. I do think we can look better and execute better, but that's more so because of Pope's offense and the players adjusting to it. I think Kentucky can still reach a Final4 and maybe win it under the right scenario, but I do believe THIS UK team has a bit of a ceiling we're working with, where as Duke, kind of doesn't.

I agree about our upside being limited from a "player improvement" perspective, but as far as becoming a more cohesive unit, improving defensively, and making shots, we have a lot of room to grow.

 

[Blueheart32]

Duke has played in NC twice since 2012, for 4 games total in the tournament.
They were supposed to play in NC in 2017 but the political bathroom bill pulled the games out of there, which ended up having 2 seeded Duke play South Carolina in....South Carolina.

Stop messing up his narrative. Twice in 13 years is absolutely biased and uncalled for!