Louisville in the SEC?!?

[bigbluegrog]

UL isn't moving to the SEC but liquor sales has nothing to do with it. While liquor sales might show a lot of revenue, UL earns less than $500K from those sales. Their food vendor gets half of the revenue plus UL has to purchase the liquor that is sold. A $8 beer may net UL about $2.50-$3.00 of profit.
There are few things more over estimated than profits from alcohol sales.

Yes, that is what they report but I think it is way more than that and they don't really want anyone to know what they really make. $500K / $3.00 profit is only 166K+ beers sold for a season for ALL their sports. I bet they sell that many during baseball season alone. Not even considering football and basketball. Have you ever been to a game and seen their fans lined up 10 thick to purchase alcohol? I would guess it is way closer to a couple Mil a year but since there is zero transparency, no one but insiders will ever really know the truth.

And then you have to consider their advertisors. Budweiser ads are displayed prominently at every venue not to mention bourbon ads. Do those companies stay on board if alcohol wasn't allowed? You can discount it all you want but a couple million a year over time adds up.

 

[WildCard]

Alcohol sales allow for huge profits...to say otherwise is silly.

1/2 barrel individually costs about $105...buy in bulk like a major sporting event and I'm sure it's less, but let's stick to $105. If you get 100% of the keg, it costs $.63 per 12 oz beer. You won't get 100% because of refridgerate on and poor pours so let's call it $.75 per beer. Sell for $8 and you have $7.75 left...id have to check on half the beer profit going to food vendors, but if so you're at $3.875 per beer profit. Many of the sellers are working for tips and fundraisers, so you save in expense there as well.

Very conservative estimation here, but 20% of the crowd buy 2 beers a game...22k beers sold for 3.87 a piece is about 85k per game in easy money.

I'm not going to try to vet your figures but, FWIW, your figure (i.e., $85K/game or about $600K/yr) actually sounds about right. I recall reading an article a few years back that addressed the "alcohol income" and while I cannot recall exactly what is was, I do recall it was well under $1M/yr. (It is not a number you can glean from the financial report; pretty sure the article was based on a specific FOIA request.) So your estimate is right in that ball park. As to the "significance" of this number, a $2 increase in ticket prices ($14 on a season ticket) would more than offset that "beer money".

Not that it matters but I'm pretty sure the organizations that work the stands are paid a flat fee and tips are on top of that fee. However, the big picture here is that beer sales have a relatively minor impact on UofL athletics bottom line. In a $90M budget I think they could easily "get by" without it.

Peace

 

[CatsFanGG24]

I'm not going to try to vet your figures but, FWIW, your figure (i.e., $85K/game or about $600K/yr) actually sounds about right. I recall reading an article a few years back that addressed the "alcohol income" and while I cannot recall exactly what is was, I do recall it was well under $1M/yr. (It is not a number you can glean from the financial report; pretty sure the article was based on a specific FOIA request.) So your estimate is right in that ball park. As to the "significance" of this number, a $2 increase in ticket prices ($14 on a season ticket) would more than offset that "beer money".

Not that it matters but I'm pretty sure the organizations that work the stands are paid a flat fee and tips are on top of that fee. However, the big picture here is that beer sales have a relatively minor impact on UofL athletics bottom line. In a $90M budget I think they could easily "get by" without it.

Peace

Was more about beer sales in general. UL could survive without it, but an extra 600k from football games alone can help a bunch...and with the article I attached, alcohol sales at a place like TROY is humongous for their program...200k per year that will help them pay off their debt from expansion of football facilities.

 

[Blue Decade]

Thread topic on the National Board

http://forums.rivals.com/threads/louisville-in-the-sec.110367/

Louisville will never be an SEC member. Current member schools can effectively block an applicant from future membership. Kentucky would never willingly allow Louisville to attain SEC membership, nor should we. Louisville's campus is only 90 miles from UK's. We share media markets and recruiting territory inside the state of Kentucky. Furthermore, there is a lot of bad blood between the UK and UL administrations. Louisville has nothing to offer by way of a negotiation that could ever change this. Our administration would never agree to let Louisville in. Not in 1,000,000 years.

 

[buster3.0]

Thread topic on the National Board

http://forums.rivals.com/threads/louisville-in-the-sec.110367/

The whole motive behind conference expansion, at least in the SEC, is to create new TV markets. UK already has the Louisville TV market, and it is a small one at that, so there wouldn't be any benefit to the SEC whose only interest is to expand their footprint.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Thread topic on the National Board

http://forums.rivals.com/threads/louisville-in-the-sec.110367/

Unless UK changes their mind it will not happen. UF, UK, UGA and USC have a "gentlemen's" agreement to veto Clemson, GT, FSU and Louisville. Those 4 down votes is all it takes to keep them out. Add that to them not increasing the footprint at all being between UK, UT, Vandy and Missouri there is no advantage of bringing them in, them being Louisville or any of the other 3 for that matter.

 

[The Public Enemy]

Unless UK changes their mind it will not happen. UF, UK, UGA and USC have a "gentlemen's" agreement to veto Clemson, GT, FSU and Louisville. Those 4 down votes is all it takes to keep them out. Add that to them not increasing the footprint at all being between UK, UT, Vandy and Missouri there is no advantage of bringing them in, them being Louisville or any of the other 3 for that matter.

^^^^^^^^^^
This...

Plus really out of FSU, Clemson. Georgia Tech and Louisville the only one that would be interested in SEC Membership at this time IMO would be Clemson...Bobby Bowden already stated FSU position on the SEC years ago...Georgia Tech already left the SEC and I just think UofL and the UofL Alums/Fans is extremely happy in the ACC.

 

[Oldtrainer]

Bobby Dodd saw the writing on the wall when Bear took over at Bama! That and playing second fiddle to UGA were two big reasons Ga.Tech left SEC. That happened many years ago and there are still some unhappy Tech fans!
buster3.0 blog is spot on.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Bobby Dodd saw the writing on the wall when Bear took over at Bama! That and playing second fiddle to UGA were two big reasons Ga.Tech left SEC. That happened many years ago and there are still some unhappy Tech fans!
buster3.0 blog is spot on.

This is tough to admit, but at the time Tech left the SEC the fanbases in Georgia were fairly close in numbers, nothing like today maybe 3 to 1, today its probably 25 to 1 or more. Also at that time Tech was winning more than UGA so that wasn't a huge factor in them leaving. That had nothing or very little to do with Tech leaving, it was more to do with what was happening in Alabama, Bear was going around rules and using minor sport scholarships to get extra football players, and this was at a time with schools could sign 40+ kids for football. Dobb left because Tech wouldn't do likewise,

 

[WildCard]

This is tough to admit, but at the time Tech left the SEC the fanbases in Georgia were fairly close in numbers, nothing like today maybe 3 to 1, today its probably 25 to 1 or more. Also at that time Tech was winning more than UGA so that wasn't a huge factor in them leaving. That had nothing or very little to do with Tech leaving, it was more to do with what was happening in Alabama, Bear was going around rules and using minor sport scholarships to get extra football players, and this was at a time with schools could sign 40+ kids for football. Dobb left because Tech wouldn't do likewise,

All true. I was a big Ramblin' Wreck fan back in the Bobby Dodd days. Dodd was always known as one of the most honorable figures in sports. In what proved to be their last game with 'Bama a Tech player was viciously hit well OOB and Dodd said they would never play 'Bama again.

I will remind posters that the subject was "could UofL be a competitive team in the SEC" not whether they would ever get an invitation to the League. For the pre-Schnellenberger UofL the answer is definitely "NO". However, since 2000 only LSU, GA, AL, FL and AU have more AP Top 25 football finishes than does UofL (7). Other sports (e.g., men and women's basketball, soccer, baseball, et. al.) have performed at even higher levels. If the League was "reforming" (based strictly upon recent athletic program performance) I think UofL is very solidly "IN". JMO.

Peace

 

[Dallas-Wild]

Good catch though Fuzz, very silly error on my part. Didn't change much though in the grand scheme of the calcs...3.625 per beer instead of 3.875...45% return instead of 48%...my 45% even closer to the 43% TROY estimated...seems my math overall was pretty good. If that is all you can come up with, I'll take it as you just got OWNED and move on...

I'll give you some more math...If I make a $1000 bet and lose...how much do I owe @bradyjames ?

 

[Oldtrainer]

This is tough to admit, but at the time Tech left the SEC the fanbases in Georgia were fairly close in numbers, nothing like today maybe 3 to 1, today its probably 25 to 1 or more. Also at that time Tech was winning more than UGA so that wasn't a huge factor in them leaving. That had nothing or very little to do with Tech leaving, it was more to do with what was happening in Alabama, Bear was going around rules and using minor sport scholarships to get extra football players, and this was at a time with schools could sign 40+ kids for football. Dobb left because Tech wouldn't do likewise,

I lived in Madison (beautiful town), Morgan County Georgia From 1957 thru 1961. Through work spent time in Putnam, Greene, Oconee, Walton, and Newton Counties and most all were very pro UGA , my guess probably 20-1! Tech did win 2 of 3 from my CATS but don't think they beat UGA or Bama and pretty sure they had a losing SEC record back then.
Bobby Dodd was a gentleman and a great coach but during that period he had a tough time with UGA and Bama. I remember controversy among Dodd, Bryant, and Butts were always in the news. Should add Ga.Tech Maxie Baughan was as good as any player I watched back then!

 

[Blue Decade]

Louisville has a great basketball program, and their athletics department is paying real attention to the football program (unlike someone I know).

Thanks to their investment in football, and UK's lack of investment in our own, they have become a perennial top-25 program in the sport (whether we want to acknowledge that or not). I think most SEC schools would rather have Louisville in the conference than us. Most SEC fanbases are embarrassed at how little our administration has done for football, and how far we lag behind the rest of the conference.

With Louisville they'd have an administration that wants to win in football at all costs (just like them). Louisville is willing to hire the best coaches, regardless of character (just like them), and are willing to recruit the best players, regardless of character (just like them), and Louisville is interested in making their stadium bigger (just like them).

I wouldn't want Louisville in the SEC, because the only thing it would do is highlight how much they've done for the nation's most popular sport, and how little we've done for it. But who knows, maybe that would be a good thing in the end. Maybe it would force us to finally make an SEC-level commitment to football.

Busted. This guy is a Louisville fan. LOL! You are making Tom Jurich's case better than he could do it himself. Never mind that most of your assumptions are factually wrong.

 

[Blue Decade]

I disagree that it does nothing for the SEC. Adding Louisville would give the league another elite level, tradition rich basketball program. U of L has really impressive overall facilities and very solid programs in most sports. I'm not sure adding U of L would do much for what matters most though (the bottom line), but I'd have no problem welcoming Louisville to the SEC.

With that being said, you have to ask yourself why Louisville would leave the ACC. It's a better basketball league. It's weak enough in other sports that U of L should be able to remain competitive long term. I don't know how much money the ACC distributes, but unless the SEC's number is substantially higher, I imagine U of L would stay.

I know a lot of older UK fans still have this mindset that Louisville is irrelevant and not worthy of being on the same level as Kentucky. Clearly, those days are far behind us. U of L is good at just about everything now.

GBB!!!

Although there are some superficial truths to what you say here, you are overlooking the more important fundamental issues. Although it is true that some Louisville athletic programs are excelling, they have made their deal with the devil by sacrificing the moral reputation and integrity of their university to get there. Hiring horrible role models of very low moral and ethical caliber like Schnellenberger, Pitino and Petrino. Covering up Schnellenberger's and Pitino's serial philandering. Covering up Pitino's abusive criminal behavior. Deliberately recruiting players who are criminals, after other schools have kicked them out. Excusing criminal behavior by players and coaches through a deliberate, opportunistic policy of reinstatement. Disciples of the win at all cost, winning is everything crowd may reject what I am saying. For years, some misguided UK fans have lamented that UK did not hire philandering coaches like Schnellenberger and Petrino. Today, though, the true difference between the 2 schools is that Louisville wins through membership in weak conferences, by deliberately exploiting criminals, cheaters, and other poor role models. Whereas Kentucky is trying to win in the nation's top conference, without sacrificing its role as the educational and ethical institutional leader in our state. In the long run, Kentucky's approach is the right 1. The SEC has choices to make. The conference's history has unfortunately featured more than enough scandal. Adding Louisville would be another foolish step down the road of scandal and irresponsible public relations. The SEC does not need Louisville. The SEC commands the nation's most lucrative TV contracts because it no longer makes these kinds of mistakes. From the standpoint of conference politics, Louisville will never be invited to join, because UK and several other founding members of our conference would use their vetoes to block Louisville from membership. This involves far more important issues than the fact that Louisville has been able to use criminals to win in CUSA and the Big East.

 

[jauk11]

Pretty strong language there, BD, although you didn't use a single cussword.

And I have to agree with you on all points.

 

[shutzhund]

I didn't read the whole thread but does "Land Grant" still apply for SEC membership? Maybe I'm just splitting hairs here.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

UL is not joining the SEC. I have not read this thread through, but hope that has been conveyed numerous times before now.

 

[CATFANFOLIFE87]

I'm not going to try to vet your figures but, FWIW, your figure (i.e., $85K/game or about $600K/yr) actually sounds about right. I recall reading an article a few years back that addressed the "alcohol income" and while I cannot recall exactly what is was, I do recall it was well under $1M/yr. (It is not a number you can glean from the financial report; pretty sure the article was based on a specific FOIA request.) So your estimate is right in that ball park. As to the "significance" of this number, a $2 increase in ticket prices ($14 on a season ticket) would more than offset that "beer money".

Not that it matters but I'm pretty sure the organizations that work the stands are paid a flat fee and tips are on top of that fee. However, the big picture here is that beer sales have a relatively minor impact on UofL athletics bottom line. In a $90M budget I think they could easily "get by" without it.

Peace

Yea you'd be fine even though both your stadium and your arena are set up like a cocktail party. How much would food sales and ticket sales suffer if the "party deck" became the sober deck and the YUM center was selling cokes at the plethora of bars that fill the arena. Your fans show up late and leave early. It's typically more of a social event than a sporting event for a large portion of your fans. You use cheap beers as a selling point to get fans to the spring game. UL is much more dependent on alcohol to fill seats and sell concessions than they want to admit. I don't believe for a second the numbers the CJ reported. The Courier is a mouthpiece for Jurich and nothing is reported that he doesn't approve of. It's easy to massage the numbers to make any point you want to make. I've been to games and seen the lines and walked through the stands and seen the number of people with a drink in their hand. I'm not buying the "under a million" is made selling alcohol all basketball, baseball, and football seasons combined. Alcohol boosts the sales of everything else. Once a person is drunk the money flows more easily

 

[STUCKNBIG10]

Doesn't do anything for the SEC, and doesn't do anything for Louisville. The ACC is a better conference in most sports, and football is just too hard to win (as you guys well know). The SEC has a bigger payout, but the ACC is a much better fit for the Cards.

Uh, not really. The ACC is definitely not a better conference in most sports. Basketball and lacrosse, but there aren't many others. SEC dominates football, baseball, softball, swimming, track, tennis, and on and on.

Also, the ACC held its nose when it invited Louisville. They are an elite academic conference and none of them wanted UL, it was just a sign of the times that they had to take them.

I will say that UL has been good for the ACC so far when it comes to baseball and, to a lesser extent, football and basketball. We'll see if that continues over time.

 

[BengalWACO]

So you are FUZZ?

Bingo..

 

[Oldtrainer]

Yea you'd be fine even though both your stadium and your arena are set up like a cocktail party. How much would food sales and ticket sales suffer if the "party deck" became the sober deck and the YUM center was selling cokes at the plethora of bars that fill the arena. Your fans show up late and leave early. It's typically more of a social event than a sporting event for a large portion of your fans. You use cheap beers as a selling point to get fans to the spring game. UL is much more dependent on alcohol to fill seats and sell concessions than they want to admit. I don't believe for a second the numbers the CJ reported. The Courier is a mouthpiece for Jurich and nothing is reported that he doesn't approve of. It's easy to massage the numbers to make any point you want to make. I've been to games and seen the lines and walked through the stands and seen the number of people with a drink in their hand. I'm not buying the "under a million" is made selling alcohol all basketball, baseball, and football seasons combined. Alcohol boosts the sales of everything else. Once a person is drunk the money flows more easily

^^^This^^^!
Split seasons tickets with a friend first two seasons of Papa Johns and much beer flowed and spilled particularly from man that set behind my wife. After two warning by me he accidently spilled beer in my wife hair. When I grabbed his gold chain and poured beer down his shirt he yelled for ushers. That was last game I attended a game at The Papa!

 

[Steelers2012]

UL is not joining the SEC. I have not read this thread through, but hope that has been conveyed numerous times before now.

Yes, that sentiment HAS been sufficiently conveyed. As well as the message that Louisville is extremely happy to be in the ACC.

 

[The Public Enemy]

Yes, that sentiment HAS been sufficiently conveyed. As well as the message that Louisville is extremely happy to be in the ACC.

Yup...and if you're a College Fan in the Louisville Area you have it all....ACC, B1G & SEC all Represented with Louisville, Kentucky and Indiana.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Uh, not really. The ACC is definitely not a better conference in most sports. Basketball and lacrosse, but there aren't many others. SEC dominates football, baseball, softball, swimming, track, tennis, and on and on.

Also, the ACC held its nose when it invited Louisville. They are an elite academic conference and none of them wanted UL, it was just a sign of the times that they had to take them.

I will say that UL has been good for the ACC so far when it comes to baseball and, to a lesser extent, football and basketball. We'll see if that continues over time.

They have done well in the ACC.