Looks like Lil Bro is expanding FB stadium

[Boyz_N_Blue]

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances

Student fees and School Funds = subsidies
UL 8% of revenue is subsidies
UK 0.89% of revenue is subsidies

 

[sluggercatfan]

The Yum center doesn't belong to UL it belongs to the city of Louisville.

Even for an Otis fan you are in denial...They do not own it in name only--for now--Otis has its hand in everything that goes on there...Why no nba team will ever be in Louisville even though the Yum needs some real basketball to be played there and only get it every other year when BIG BROTHER plays there...

 

[mwatson61]

I think he is talking about the 9.6 million a year paid to YUM! each year by the Jefferson County taxpayers the majority of which are not UL enthusiasts. A tax on UK, Notre Dame, IU , and all other fans as well as atheists who support no team. It will increase dramatically when they finally have to start paying off the bonds. Most payments to date have simply been for interest.

Want to go to a jimmy Buffet concert and buy a shirt? UL profits. The most ridiculous one sided lease in the history of the world. Only about between one and two % of the taxpayers have UL season tickets. The negotiators were UL fans on both sides and represented UL to the detriment of the taxpayers. Why should UK fans (about 40 % of the taxpayers) be taxed against their will to support UL. Mayor Fisher should go work for UL . He sides with them in scamming UK fans and others rather than doing his job as a prudent custodian of funds paid by ALL taxpayers.

I was simply referring to on-campus stadiums. Neither Yum! or Rupp is on campus or owned by the universities. Both are tenants.

 

[Catfanlou]

I was simply referring to on-campus stadiums. Neither Yum! or Rupp is on campus or owned by the universities. Both are tenants.

Someone missed my point . While it is not owned by UL they get MORE than all of the profit and leave the debt and yearly loss of 9.6 million to the taxpayers of Jefferson County. It cannot be compared to any above board lease in the history of man. It is strictly a boondoggle where both sides negotiating were UL folks and they stuck it to the taxpayers

 

[mwatson61]

Someone missed my point . While it is not owned by UL they get MORE than all of the profit and leave the debt and yearly loss of 9.6 million to the taxpayers of Jefferson County. It cannot be compared to any above board lease in the history of man. It is strictly a boondoggle where both sides negotiating were UL folks and they stuck it to the taxpayers

It's my understanding from reading several articles about the financing of the arena, that the 9.6 million you're speaking of was budgeted as the cities part from day one. The fact that UL got a sweet heart deal to play in the arena is on the Arena Authority. If UK had the same opportunity in a renovated Rupp, they would jump on it in a heart beat.

 

[Catfanlou]

It's my understanding from reading several articles about the financing of the arena, that the 9.6 million you're speaking of was budgeted as the cities part from day one. The fact that UL got a sweet heart deal to play in the arena is on the Arena Authority. If UK had the same opportunity in a renovated Rupp, they would jump on it in a heart beat.

The 9.6 million was the county's obligation only as a backstop if the revenues did not meet expectations . The reason the revenues have not met expectations is the lease deal is a fraud having been "negotiated " by people who had conflicts of interest and whose goal was to make certain the backstop would be used. if the lease was halfway fair the backstop would not be necessary . The profits from Yum actually go to UL leaving the taxpayers on the hook rather than being used to pay the debt service.

The whole deal was a scheme to transfer yearly about ten million to UL from the taxpayers under this boondoggle.

It will breakdown when it is necessary to pay more than mainly interest on the bonds as they will
Have an additional obligation of ten to fifteen million a year.but the folks who negotiated the deal will be long gone. That is why the rating agencies have downgraded the bonds to junk status.

UK nor any other school will ever get offered a deal remotely similar to this one and should not.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It's my understanding from reading several articles about the financing of the arena, that the 9.6 million you're speaking of was budgeted as the cities part from day one. The fact that UL got a sweet heart deal to play in the arena is on the Arena Authority. If UK had the same opportunity in a renovated Rupp, they would jump on it in a heart beat.

Why would it also not be on UL?

UL consistently touts itself as a could corporate partner and citizen for Louisville. Why then would it negotiate a deal that was really bad for the taxpayers? Why would it now not renegotiate after the financing plan has proven flawed?

 

[teamcanada]

What is the cities return on the 9.6 million? You would have to compute the extra tax revenue generated by the arena for things like hotel rooms and occupational taxes the city receives to see if they are getting their monies worth,

 

[mwatson61]

The 9.6 million was the county's obligation only as a backstop if the revenues did not meet expectations . The reason the revenues have not met expectations is the lease deal is a fraud having been "negotiated " by people who had conflicts of interest and whose goal was to make certain the backstop would be used. if the lease was halfway fair the backstop would not be necessary . The profits from Yum actually go to UL leaving the taxpayers on the hook rather than being used to pay the debt service.

The whole deal was a scheme to transfer yearly about ten million to UL from the taxpayers under this boondoggle.

It will breakdown when it is necessary to pay more than mainly interest on the bonds as they will
Have an additional obligation of ten to fifteen million a year.but the folks who negotiated the deal will be long gone. That is why the rating agencies have downgraded the bonds to junk status.

UK nor any other school will ever get offered a deal remotely similar to this one and should not.

The main culprit in revenue short fall is the projected TIF that was way over blown by the Arena Authority. The hope is as the area continues to develop, some of this revenue will start to make a difference. I'm sure when UofL's lease is up for renegotiation, adjustments will be made.

 

[WildCard]

The 9.6 million was the county's obligation only as a backstop if the revenues did not meet expectations . The reason the revenues have not met expectations is the lease deal is a fraud having been "negotiated " by people who had conflicts of interest and whose goal was to make certain the backstop would be used. if the lease was halfway fair the backstop would not be necessary . The profits from Yum actually go to UL leaving the taxpayers on the hook rather than being used to pay the debt service.

The whole deal was a scheme to transfer yearly about ten million to UL from the taxpayers under this boondoggle...

Ummm, totally incorrect but I suspect your mind is already made up on this subject. The City wrangled the project from the Fair Board and willingly invested in the project to create new downtown infrastructure. Their obligation to the project was not a "backstop". However, the financing plan was flawed due to the ridiculously optimistic projected revenue from the TIF district. That is where the bond payoff money was supposed to come from and why the bonds are rated junk. The Arena is actually making money on "operations" but the TIF revenues are wayyyy behind the "projections".

As I previously noted UofL pays about $2.1M/yr in rent. They do receive a 50% share of concessions for UofL events held in the arena just as they did at the Fairgrounds. UofL was making plenty of money at the Fairgrounds and had no real reason to move to the YUM! unless they were going to get a better deal. And they did. Better because it gives them scheduling priority during "basketball season" and better because they have more regular seats to sell and more luxury seats to sell.

Why would it also not be on UL?

UL consistently touts itself as a could corporate partner and citizen for Louisville. Why then would it negotiate a deal that was really bad for the taxpayers? Why would it now not renegotiate after the financing plan has proven flawed?

I know we don't see eye to eye on the arena issues but I think you will agree the the arena would not have been built if UofL had not agreed to be the primary tenant. So the only way UofL could have saved the taxpayers of Metro Louisville from a bad deal would have been to tell the Arena Committee: "No, we are going to save you from yourselves and will not play there".

Per their financial report the ULAA made approximately $4.7M more in basketball revenue in their first year in YUM! There are annual fluctuations in "basketball revenues" due to other things (number of home games, NCAA payouts, TV, etc.) but, in looking at some other years, that $4.7M number seems to be pretty good estimate of how much more is made annually by playing in the YUM! rather than Freedom Hall. And I will add that per those financial records "basketball expenses" have gone up ~$2M/YR since moving into YUM!. I would guess that close to half of this increase is due to lease. But the point is increased expenses erodes the "net increase" of basketball revenue due to the move to the YUM! The money is nice but not really as much as everyone makes of it (UK just made much more this year than last due to the newest SEC revenue windfall).

The biggest thing UofL gets out of this lease is priority scheduling and suite owners having first right of refusal to ANY arena event. Those issues would be impediments to a possible (but highly unlikely) NBA franchise moving to Louisville. However, if there was real interest (and not just talk by a few proponents) to move a team to Louisville I am sure that a lease renegotiation would come up and UofL would be unlikely to budge.

Peace

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I know we don't see eye to eye on the arena issues but I think you will agree the the arena would not have been built if UofL had not agreed to be the primary tenant. So the only way UofL could have saved the taxpayers of Metro Louisville from a bad deal would have been to tell the Arena Committee: "No, we are going to save you from yourselves and will not play there".

Per their financial report the ULAA made approximately $4.7M more in basketball revenue in their first year in YUM! There are annual fluctuations in "basketball revenues" due to other things (number of home games, NCAA payouts, TV, etc.) but, in looking at some other years, that $4.7M number seems to be pretty good estimate of how much more is made annually by playing in the YUM! rather than Freedom Hall. And I will add that per those financial records "basketball expenses" have gone up ~$2M/YR since moving into YUM!. I would guess that close to half of this increase is due to lease. But the point is increased expenses erodes the "net increase" of basketball revenue due to the move to the YUM! The money is nice but not really as much as everyone makes of it (UK just made much more this year than last due to the newest SEC revenue windfall).

The biggest thing UofL gets out of this lease is priority scheduling and suite owners having first right of refusal to ANY arena event. Those issues would be impediments to a possible (but highly unlikely) NBA franchise moving to Louisville. However, if there was real interest (and not just talk by a few proponents) to move a team to Louisville I am sure that a lease renegotiation would come up and UofL would be unlikely to budge.

Peace

Let's get the chronology right. No arena would have been built period had UL not dangled a strategic plan to build a new arena. Let's not pretend that the city was contemplating an arena and THEN asked UL to be the primary tenet.

If we get past that simple fact, then I agree that the Yum would not have been built without UL as the primary tenant. And that would have been fine by me, even though I think the Yum is a fine addition to the city. A lot of shiny things are nice.

The city rightfully realized that a new arena downtown for UL would be worlds better for the downtown area than an arena at the Fairgrounds or on UL's campus. No doubt. Makes sense.

After that, UL used its claimed desire for an on campus arena as leverage, along with confederates on the committee, to rape the taxpayers. We now have a nice arena that we cannot afford. And, this is no surprise as it was predicted by the objective spectators who reviewed the plan. UL worked the scene masterfully, but before we give them too much credit, we have to admit that the people city across the table were motivated for UL, not the taxpayer. It is easy, even in the public eye, to bargain with yourself.

And, because about 40% of the citizens were blinded by their love of UL sports and desire to upgrade from Freedom Hall, it was easy to lead the lambs to slaughter. To act like UL had no role in that is to be a rosy fool.

Being a good corporate citizen means you do not engage in such self serving snake oil practices.

 

[Mike-D]

Grown men crying about stadium capacities on an online message board. Priceless.

 

[WildCard]

Let's get the chronology right. No arena would have been built period had UL not dangled a strategic plan to build a new arena. Let's not pretend that the city was contemplating an arena and THEN asked UL to be the primary tenet.

If we get past that simple fact, then I agree that the Yum would not have been built without UL as the primary tenant. And that would have been fine by me, even though I think the Yum is a fine addition to the city. A lot of shiny things are nice.

The city rightfully realized that a new arena downtown for UL would be worlds better for the downtown area than an arena at the Fairgrounds or on UL's campus. No doubt. Makes sense.

After that, UL used its claimed desire for an on campus arena as leverage, along with confederates on the committee, to rape the taxpayers. We now have a nice arena that we cannot afford. And, this is no surprise as it was predicted by the objective spectators who reviewed the plan. UL worked the scene masterfully, but before we give them too much credit, we have to admit that the people city across the table were motivated for UL, not the taxpayer. It is easy, even in the public eye, to bargain with yourself.

And, because about 40% of the citizens were blinded by their love of UL sports and desire to upgrade from Freedom Hall, it was easy to lead the lambs to slaughter. To act like UL had no role in that is to be a rosy fool.

Being a good corporate citizen means you do not engage in such self serving snake oil practices.

We obviously have totally different recollections on "how" the arena came to exist. That said, I cannot ever remember UofL "threatening" to build an on campus if whatever demand was not met. As I pointed out before they simply could not afford to so on their own. Such a threat would have been as hollow as a hot air balloon. Notwithstanding actually paying it off, either Metro or the Commonwealth would have to issue bonds for the project. An on campus arena would have been against Metro's agenda and I cannot see Frankfort approving bonding for such a project. Now after the wheels were in motion UofL indeed offered up a campus site but there was less chance of that happening than it being built on the Fairgrounds. I don't disagree UofL lobbied for an on-campus site but that was just not going happen. Their only leverage (and it was pretty powerful leverage) was the fact it was not going to be built unless they "agreed" to play there.

But I have distinct recollections of at least 2 and maybe 3 "feasibility studies" about a new downtown arena well before the Fair Board put new arena in their out year budget. Until that happened, as they say in Texas, the arena talk was "Big hat, no cattle".

The YUM! is a nice shiny addition to downtown Louisville. But, like most such civic entertainment venues, it will likely never "pay for itself". I accept that. But I was very upset about the lack of transparency in the "negotiations" and the single minded purpose of the mayor/downtown interests to drive the project to the riverfront site primarily for the purpose of "downtown beautification" (i.e., sub-station eyesore). Had there been any transparency about "why" those interests lobbied so hard for that site I would have been fine with it, even with the additional costs. For that matter, I would have likely supported some kind of special "taxation" to support the project. But I hate being "lied to". The way is was pushed through with such a faulty funding plan that will eventually result in some kind of future tax increase in Metro was contemptible.

BTW, are you the poster formerly known as UKaveman or something like that? If so, we met one day down at a UK spring football practice.

Peace

 

[Caveman Catfan]

That is not me.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Even Wikipedia notes that UL strongly resisted a downtown arena, saying it wanted an on campus arena or a new arena at the Fairgrounds.

 

[teamcanada]

The first person who wanted to build a downtown arena was Howard S. He proposed a downtown football/basketball arena along the lines of the Carrier Dome.

 

[Rhavicc]

Even Wikipedia notes that UL strongly resisted a downtown arena, saying it wanted an on campus arena or a new arena at the Fairgrounds.

Not saying I disagree that UL resisted a downtown arena, but Wikipedia is a lame source to cite. At any rate though, yippee for both schools. UofL has a fancy little arena, and gets a nice little soccer complex, as well as expanding its football stadium. UK is putting in $120 million in renovations for the football stadium, building a $45 million football training complex which will be on par with any other in the country, and as of July, UK will have pocketed nearly $65 million dollars from conference affiliation/telvision deals (SEC Network) and a signing bonus of a new $210 million/15 year multimedia deal, which is second to only Alabama, in all of college athletics, in terms of tier III incomes. Both schools are doing pretty well for themselves, everybody's happy.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I am citing my own knowledge. Wikipedia agrees.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

BTW, I could not care any less if UL expands is FB stadium. And, the Yum is top rate. But, as a tax payer who knew he was being lied to at the time it was presented, it sucks to see the leaders at UL, the city, the Fair Board and the committee screw us over. John Schnatter of all people seemed like then only reasonable and straightforward person in the process.

 

[Rhavicc]

BTW, I could not care any less if UL expands is FB stadium. And, the Yum is top rate. But, as a tax payer who knew he was being lied to at the time it was presented, it sucks to see the leaders at UL, the city, the Fair Board and the committee screw us over. John Schnatter of all people seemed like then only reasonable and straightforward person in the process.

+1 for this at least. I wouldn't expect any UK fan to care though, and vise versa. Some will, but there's no reason that they should. I also agree as far as the Yum goes.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

UL averaged 33k fans with a Heisman trophy winning QB in a P5 conference.

 

[ukalum1988]

Another zombie thread comes back to life

 

[JDHoss]

@ the notion that Turtleneck was a great AD.Turtleneck wasn't a great AD, or even a good one. Mr. "I don't like to use emails or texts because those things can be used against you" was simply a crooked sack of dung who gave his coaches the green light to do whatever was needed to win, and worked hard at sweeping the fallout under the rug. Turtleneck finally ran out of rugs to sweep University Six's fallout under, and it cost him his job. He was also pretty "creative" with money, and I hope that one day, that will earn him a spot on the side of the road in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash.

 

[sluggercatfan]

@ the notion that Turtleneck was a great AD.Turtleneck wasn't a great AD, or even a good one. Mr. "I don't like to use emails or texts because those things can be used against you" was simply a crooked sack of dung who gave his coaches the green light to do whatever was needed to win, and worked hard at sweeping the fallout under the rug. Turtleneck finally ran out of rugs to sweep University Six's fallout under, and it cost him his job. He was also pretty "creative" with money, and I hope that one day, that will earn him a spot on the side of the road in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash.

White collar crime...Would be put in a resort somewhere.

 

[JDHoss]

White collar crime...Would be put in a resort somewhere.

It's nice to dream though....

 

[s-ram]

 

[loucatfan]

Like or dislike Tom Jurich he runs circles around Mitch when it comes to building his schools 'brand'.....Mitch always seems to be in react mode...and if you dont like my take on it 'I don't care'......so blast away

Yeah Tom Jurich really has helped UL s brand . It’s so bad they really need to rename the school . Because of TJ mismanagement their brand is the laughingstock of the nation .

 

[jauk11]

Ummm, totally incorrect but I suspect your mind is already made up on this subject. The City wrangled the project from the Fair Board and willingly invested in the project to create new downtown infrastructure. Their obligation to the project was not a "backstop". However, the financing plan was flawed due to the ridiculously optimistic projected revenue from the TIF district. That is where the bond payoff money was supposed to come from and why the bonds are rated junk. The Arena is actually making money on "operations" but the TIF revenues are wayyyy behind the "projections".

As I previously noted UofL pays about $2.1M/yr in rent. They do receive a 50% share of concessions for UofL events held in the arena just as they did at the Fairgrounds. UofL was making plenty of money at the Fairgrounds and had no real reason to move to the YUM! unless they were going to get a better deal. And they did. Better because it gives them scheduling priority during "basketball season" and better because they have more regular seats to sell and more luxury seats to sell.


I know we don't see eye to eye on the arena issues but I think you will agree the the arena would not have been built if UofL had not agreed to be the primary tenant. So the only way UofL could have saved the taxpayers of Metro Louisville from a bad deal would have been to tell the Arena Committee: "No, we are going to save you from yourselves and will not play there".

Per their financial report the ULAA made approximately $4.7M more in basketball revenue in their first year in YUM! There are annual fluctuations in "basketball revenues" due to other things (number of home games, NCAA payouts, TV, etc.) but, in looking at some other years, that $4.7M number seems to be pretty good estimate of how much more is made annually by playing in the YUM! rather than Freedom Hall. And I will add that per those financial records "basketball expenses" have gone up ~$2M/YR since moving into YUM!. I would guess that close to half of this increase is due to lease. But the point is increased expenses erodes the "net increase" of basketball revenue due to the move to the YUM! The money is nice but not really as much as everyone makes of it (UK just made much more this year than last due to the newest SEC revenue windfall).

The biggest thing UofL gets out of this lease is priority scheduling and suite owners having first right of refusal to ANY arena event. Those issues would be impediments to a possible (but highly unlikely) NBA franchise moving to Louisville. However, if there was real interest (and not just talk by a few proponents) to move a team to Louisville I am sure that a lease renegotiation would come up and UofL would be unlikely to budge.

Peace

What has the SEC windfall money have to do with any of this, UK gets this regardless BECAUSE other SEC schools expanded their football expenditures when it became obvious it was the coming money cow-------While UK expanded their penny wise and pound foolish philosophy toward football.

 

[JDHoss]

Yeah Tom Jurich really has helped UL s brand . It’s so bad they really need to rename the school . Because of TJ mismanagement their brand is the laughingstock of the nation .

Turtleneck did build their brand. It's now called University Six. What's even more hilarious is that all of the Turtleneck fanboys have gone silent.

 

[jauk11]

White collar crime...Would be put in a resort somewhere.

And with the $5,000,000 a year he was making (and other kickbacks) he would have switched the lobster tails he owed Willie from his prison to his own-------I think Willie spent all his money on drugs and had to resort to crime to cover his acquired habits.

Much like another of Transfer's U's football heroes had to resort to serial armed robbery to support his Louisville habits after his NFL money ran out.

 

[jauk11]

Yeah Tom Jurich really has helped UL s brand . It’s so bad they really need to rename the school . Because of TJ mismanagement their brand is the laughingstock of the nation .

And most of their bad publicity is still to come, very rare that a school loses a national championship. And that is only a small part of it.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Don't be surprised when more and more P5 Schools start selling Beer at Games....right now the P5 Schools that sell Beer to people over 21 in the Stands are Louisville, Miami, Syracuse, Minnesota and West Virginia.

Until SEC changes policy no one in the SEC will be selling alcohol in their stadiums.

 

[jauk11]

Until SEC changes policy no one in the SEC will be selling alcohol in their stadiums.

That should settle that, Looks like most of our fans are complaining to the wrong people.

 

[sluggercatfan]

Until SEC changes policy no one in the SEC will be selling alcohol in their stadiums.

Would much rather have Rupp Arena ice cream sold in KCWS ...dont want to see UK fans act like U6

 

[loucatfan]

Until SEC changes policy no one in the SEC will be selling alcohol in their stadiums.

I recently took a big time UL fan to Rupp.

Would much rather have Rupp Arena ice cream sold in KCWS ...dont want to see UK fans act like U6

Agree.
Interestingly I took a strong UL fan who is also a big drinker to the UK Miss State game. His comment was it was great to go to a game and be able to watch it without a bunch of drunks bothering you. Surprised me but that was his honest take.

 

[RonEJones]

What has the SEC windfall money have to do with any of this, UK gets this regardless BECAUSE other SEC schools expanded their football expenditures when it became obvious it was the coming money cow-------While UK expanded their penny wise and pound foolish philosophy toward football.

I think one thing you and I are in total agreement about is that Barney is a clown show.

 

[The-Hack]

What's even more hilarious is that all of the Turtleneck fanboys have gone silent.

Mmmmmmmmmm.

Not entirely. Looks like his malfeasance and the debts it created for taxpayers and the expenses it caused for U of L students earned such fans that one is considering withdrawing his support for the Music School.

 

[jauk11]

I think one thing you and I are in total agreement about is that Barney is a clown show.

For football.

No problem with him supporting other sports, just not at the expense of robbing all of football's money. AND it is my firm belief that he would have had a LOT more money for them IF he hadn't put football on bare minimum support, it HAS been the money cow for a long time now, lot of ground to make up.

And it bit him in the A$$, not nearly as bad as us fans though, hard to calculate how much money he has cost us in TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders dropping them AND losing tons of donations from football fans.

 

[yourcall5]

They just approved 2.2 Billion funding and 55 million is for the FB stadium expansion. Rumor is they will surpass Commonwealth in size when it is finished.

While we decreased the size of our stadium they are opting to increase theirs. Where do they get all the money? Why are tax payers, who end up footing the bill for the poor financial choices of ul not riot?

This is just another example of Jurrich and ul trying to act big and sticking the tax payers with the bill just like they did with yum center.

They started this expansion over a year ago under Jurich

 

[RonEJones]

For football.

No problem with him supporting other sports, just not at the expense of robbing all of football's money. AND it is my firm belief that he would have had a LOT more money for them IF he hadn't put football on bare minimum support, it HAS been the money cow for a long time now, lot of ground to make up.

And it bit him in the A$$, not nearly as bad as us fans though, hard to calculate how much money he has cost us in TWENTY THOUSAND season ticket holders dropping them AND losing tons of donations from football fans.

I hear you on the football piece (though I’d argue he’s made a few head scratching decisions re: men’s basketball) but that’s the one thing you can’t screw up in today’s landscape. It’s cash cow and what funds everything else, save men’s basketball.

It’s also the hardest program to build due to everyone else bringing their A game - as opposed to hiring a rifle coach. I’m glad we’ve gotten a bit more serious in at least creating the facade that we are trying but IMO, the day he retires/moves on will be a great day in UK sports history.