UT did exactly that to us back in the 70's in Knoxville. Back then the home team supplied the communications equipment for both teams and we caught them listening in on our coaches. Two years later, we showed up with our own radios.
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- Thread starter Ineverplayedthegame
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I think you may have answered your own question. If its no big deal, yeah? Since this story broke, numerous QBs, former refs, equipment managers, and so on, have come out and said that the balls all get messed with (at all levels), and its just like one of those unspoken things within the game. Clearly it is problematic, and needs to be addressed, and perhaps the Patriots should be made an example of. But at the same time, this whole thing is a blundering by the league. They should be the ones supplying the balls for the games, and each team has to deal with the same thing. Allowing teams to supply their own and having definitions on what can and can not happen to them, says a lot about the way this is being handled. The league isnpissed, but mostly because they've been made to look incompetent for the hundreth time this year. By the way, Goodell is a putz.
As for the tapping communications thing, I really doubt that. Week eleven NE went into Indy and curb stomped them in their own house. No chance it could have been tapped. Precedence and all that. Indy just isn't that good. They caught lightning in a bottle playing a choke artist Cincy team and an injured Peyton Manning, who also happens to choke in crunch time.
If this whole thing turns out to be true, and the league can give legit proof that someone on the NE staff requested and knowingly allowed balls to be tampered with, then the league should smack them hard. Belichick suspended immediately, loss of draft picks (all of them) and substantial fines for all involved. But the burden of proof is squarely on the NFL. The court of public opinion is one thing, but the NFL needs to not F this up. Does anyone have any confidence in the NFL not f'n this up though?
Legit Proof? 11 of 12 balls on the Patriot sideline became under-inflated sometime between just prior to kickoff and halftime. 0 of 12 balls on the other sideline experienced the same phenomenon. Unless you know of some other reasonable explanation, I am going to call that more than enough proof to move forward. We don't need a positive DNA match in this instance.
Legit proof that this was systematically carried out. So yes. Who and how need to be answered. It seems quite clear that the balls were tampered with. No dispute there. But the rigor of the investigation has to produce solid evidence that points to someone specifically pulling this tactic. If the hammer is going to be dropped, shouldn't it be dropped on the right person? Let's not just shoot from the hip and ask questions later. Solid evidence. Paper trail. Video. Something. But just accusing someone, anyone, does not mend the issue.
it's not trolling when other players and coaches have come out and said balls get tampered with all the time. Nothing new here. Please stop acting like the Pats are committing some horrendous crime that nobody else would attempt.....This is about hating on the Pats. People hate Coach B. because he's a pric* towards the media, which is exactly why I love him so much.
Are you suggesting that it may have been someone outside of the New England organization who did this? If so, this has ceased to be a reasonable discussion, We know the balls were tampered with and we know somebody representing the Patriots did it. At a minimum, penalize those in charge (coach and owners) and if more evidence comes out as to who the specific individuals were who ordered this tactic, sanction them as well.
Please do not insert words into my mouth. At no point have I implied it was someone from outside the organization. ...although those sneaky Jets are just looking for pay back.
My whole point has simply been: let's let the investigation do its job and find who the culprit is. I want the actual person dealt with, rather than just a sweeping punishment where numerous get caught in the fallout of someone else's stupidity. We don't conduct any sort of trial in that manner where someone may or may not have been involved, but let's skewer them anyway just to quench the bloodlust of the public and its cart before the horse philosophy. One thing at a time, as there is no hurry. That's all.
All the teams do it and more. They season, rub up, oil the balls to the specs of their QBs. It's NOT unusual or a big deal.
Just so you know I don't watch or follow pro sports of any kind. I just find all this hoopla funny. Seems so trite to me but a great opportunity for laughs.Originally posted by AndyPopCat:
You're prolly right. Just find it hard to swallow Belichick would follow up the genius of the Ravens game by disgracing his team once again with this crap.Originally posted by Levibooty:
You're way too serious about this!
Sounds awfully convenient. Sour grapes surely couldn't be a part of this, right?
This post was edited on 1/22 12:55 PM by Prime MF
Matt Leinart's comments:
"Every team tampers with the footballs," Matt Leinart said on Twitter. "Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!"
Leinart then carved out one exception: "Actually my guy @kurt13warner didn't tamper w the footballs because he wore gloves," Leinart said. "Used to irritate me..So correction, almost all QBs!"
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
"Legit proof that this was systematically carried out. So yes. Who and how need to be answered. It seems quite clear that the balls were tampered with. No dispute there. But the rigor of the investigation has to produce solid evidence that points to someone specifically pulling this tactic. If the hammer is going to be dropped, shouldn't it be dropped on the right person? Let's not just shoot from the hip and ask questions later. Solid evidence. Paper trail. Video. Something. But just accusing someone, anyone, does not mend the issue. "
It's seems plausible to me that the Pats are looking for someone to throw under the bus. Someone who will admit he did it on his own. The Pats will "take care of" any fines or fallout behind the scenes.
It's seems plausible to me that the Pats are looking for someone to throw under the bus. Someone who will admit he did it on his own. The Pats will "take care of" any fines or fallout behind the scenes.
If the NFL was TRULY serious about the so-called "integrity" of the game, they would provide footballs from headquarters ninety seconds before kickoff.
Every team is given new balls on Monday by the NFL for them to "work up"...i.e. take the shine off. Before the game they must submit 12 balls that will be used as game balls. Those ball submitted must be of proper weight and inflated to proper specs. Teams are allowed to condition the surface of the ball however they see fit...they are not supposed to tamper with the ball's weight or inflation. Further, the officials are supposed to check all of the submitted game balls and confirm that they meet specification.
I am not condoning cheating, but I would be a lot more worked up about the balls if the final score wasn't 45-7. I mean, how much could it have affected the outcome of the game? If the Pats had barely won behind a career day by Brady, then OK, you might have a point. But as it is, seems a little ridiculously overblown to me.
After reading the NFL policy on taking the footballs and also hearing what Brady and Belichic, especially Belichic, had to say I think the balls were probably given to the NFL and never checked until the Colts started complaining, then at the beginning of the second half the NFL checked the balls and found 11 of them were under-inflated and removed those from the Patriots set of balls and moved on. That's on the NFL not the Patriots. This stinks of a league that doesn't want to admit they fouled up one of their own rules after they have had egg on their face so many times this year already so they are making the Patriots fall on the sword of public opinion Unfortunately this is going to backfire when they hand out no punishment and then everyone thinks they were being soft on the Patriots.
All teams beware!!!! This second incident proves that the Patriots will cheat and IMO will continue to do so unless they are severely dealt with by the NFL office. It seems they are always looking for an edge and do not care if it is legal or ethical. I would suggest that teams guard their communications systems and debug the booth when playing the Patriots.
The truth is if you are inclined to cheat there is spy equipment on the market that can put you right in your opponents side line strategy sessions, in their booth and right, in the opponents huddle. It only depends on how far you want to take your cheating. I have no problem with stealing signs and gaining information if it is done without technology. I have a huge problem if it is done with powerful optics and electronics.
I know that sports are a business in the NFL, they have a bottom line, and winning is good for the bottom line. IMO if the public starts to think that the games are not on the up and up that will damage the bottom line for all of the teams. If the public perceives that the team with the best spy system is winning games it will definitely damage the bottom line for all.
The truth is if you are inclined to cheat there is spy equipment on the market that can put you right in your opponents side line strategy sessions, in their booth and right, in the opponents huddle. It only depends on how far you want to take your cheating. I have no problem with stealing signs and gaining information if it is done without technology. I have a huge problem if it is done with powerful optics and electronics.
I know that sports are a business in the NFL, they have a bottom line, and winning is good for the bottom line. IMO if the public starts to think that the games are not on the up and up that will damage the bottom line for all of the teams. If the public perceives that the team with the best spy system is winning games it will definitely damage the bottom line for all.
ESPN had Jerome Bettis and a former QB ( I can't remember who) on the show the other day and they had them to throw and catch 3 different balls. One that was the correct PSI, one under inflated and one over inflated. They both knew right away which was which. They went on to say it would be an advantage for the QB and RB because it would be easier to hold the ball but for WR's it wouldn't make as much difference.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I will put more weight on the opinion of 2 former pro players who say it would be an advantage over a bunch of posters on a message board who are saying it wouldn't. To be honest I don't really care because I don't like the Pats or Colts but if the Pats are cheating they should be punished and since it is the 2nd time recently to blatantly cheat it should be severe. By severe I am not talking just money, Bilichek should be suspended for significant time including the Super Bowl.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I will put more weight on the opinion of 2 former pro players who say it would be an advantage over a bunch of posters on a message board who are saying it wouldn't. To be honest I don't really care because I don't like the Pats or Colts but if the Pats are cheating they should be punished and since it is the 2nd time recently to blatantly cheat it should be severe. By severe I am not talking just money, Bilichek should be suspended for significant time including the Super Bowl.
Bilichek and the New England football franchise needs to be given incentive to quit cheating. They need to give a show cause to Bilichek that when ever a team he is coaching is caught cheating he will be fired and his team ineligible for post season play.
This is really a non issue IMO at the end of day it will be fine as it is the rule book that will be the end of it
Funny, the refs handle the ball in between EVERY SINGLE PLAY, and none of them noticed?
And then the balls were switched out so the Pats had to use the Colts' balls, and Brady promptly led them to four touchdown drives in the second half.
Must not be as big an issue as advertised.
And then the balls were switched out so the Pats had to use the Colts' balls, and Brady promptly led them to four touchdown drives in the second half.
Must not be as big an issue as advertised.
If you every played football or coached football you know this is not a big deal , there has been more than few Pro QB and WR say this is or was no big deal, the fine itself in the rule book is only 25,000.The only reason this is a issue is it because it's the Patriots, if this where the bengals or Titans it wouldn't even made the news.Aaron Rogers has been on the record saying he overinflates the balls on purpose, Brad Joohson paid 7500 before the Super Bowl to doctor the footballs, nobody cares on either isssue above, It's like the crap they spread about Cal bring a cheater but in reality it's because he wins,
This post was edited on 1/24 6:42 AM by optimus-blue
This post was edited on 1/24 6:42 AM by optimus-blue
I played for quite a few years and coached 35 and it is a big deal, soft ball is much easier to hold on to for a ball carrier, I always found the easier to catch, less rebound with a softer ball. Same as dribbling a basketball or banking a shot, less air less bounce.
I don't know anything about a basketball I will take your word for it. I have played and coached over thirty years also once again it's not a big deal. The key word in your statement is "I" it's a personal preference thing. For every advantage you get with lower pressure ball you lose some other advantages , you can't throw a lower pressure ball as far or with a tight of a spiral with velocity as you can with a higher psi football, hence Qb like Rogers like to throw over-inflated football which by the rule book is illegal also. A good equipment manger can make the ball anyway the Qb wants without every putting a needle in it, by using a ball warmer and cold towel, actually Brady threw the long ball better in the second half when the balls where higher pressure.This is only a big deal because it's the patriots
This post was edited on 1/24 8:05 AM by optimus-blue
This post was edited on 1/24 8:05 AM by optimus-blue
I agree a fully inflated ball is easier to throw, but an under inflated ball is easier to catch, doesn't matter how far you throw it if it isn't caught. It isn't a 50% advantage, but an advantage none the less, but to a ball carrier it is a big advantage, ask your ball carrier which is easier to hold on to, even if its a mental advantage its an adavantage.
Patriots have looked for a competitive edge for years, the balls were all legal at imspection and then weren't suddenly? Someone let air out of the ball, they wouldn't have done that if they didn't feel it would give them an advantage. Why go through the mess it caused just for the heck of it? As cold, hard and wet as those footballs got, any advantage is a signigifant advantage. You say there isn't one, I disagree, and thats cool.
Patriots have looked for a competitive edge for years, the balls were all legal at imspection and then weren't suddenly? Someone let air out of the ball, they wouldn't have done that if they didn't feel it would give them an advantage. Why go through the mess it caused just for the heck of it? As cold, hard and wet as those footballs got, any advantage is a signigifant advantage. You say there isn't one, I disagree, and thats cool.
Well If that is the case why did pats Wr drop more balls in the first half than the second half? , secondly if they put the ball in a ball warmer( which every sideline has) before or after they measured the PSI, and cooled the ball suddenly that would explain drop of PSI, there are other ways do it but at the end of the day it didn't matter. if this was the Benglas, Falcons , Titans any other losing team it wouldn't even be a issue or be 25,000 fine and nothing would be said.Harbaugh got embrassed by being out coached and complained about something that you could catch 90 % of Qb doing in some form or another. I bet you will not hear any current Qb say one thing or another because they are terrified that they will have to use a standardized ball by the league and they will be no longer able to tinker with them.
This post was edited on 1/24 10:29 AM by optimus-blue
This post was edited on 1/24 10:29 AM by optimus-blue
THIS^^^^
I played a number of years at QB and coached some too. It does make a difference. Whether it made a difference in the score of the Pats/Colts game is that I doubt it.
Every team that I know of in HS to the pros picks out the best "feeling" footballs before the game. I did it before every game.
Why it is such a big story is because of the Patriots history of crossing the line and doing anything it took to get an advantage.
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2
Guest
Brady said he like's the softer balls, yet he expects everyone to believe that he could be playing with something different and not notice it. How does he know he likes it softer if he can't tell the difference? He knew during the game they were underinflated despite what he says. Don't know if he personally had anything to do with it other than the very powerful suggestion that he likes the ball that way.
What does the outcome of the game have to do with anything? The point is they intended to cheat and they did.
What does the outcome of the game have to do with anything? The point is they intended to cheat and they did.
Watch BB press conference and tell me they have not went over the issue and are prepared , BB knows more about it than those guys on ESPN.
This post was edited on 1/24 5:49 PM by optimus-blue
This post was edited on 1/24 5:49 PM by optimus-blue
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