KHSAA: Should Private Schools Get Their Own Division?

[CardHack]

I have been on both sides of this issue, both as a county school student playing football in the 80's and a parent of kids who went through Catholic grade schools in Louisville and then public for high school having just graduated. So when it came to competing against Sacred Heart, Assumption and Mercy in soccer for my daughter she was playing against in many cases people she played with and against in grade school both at the school and Club soccer level. Same with my son against Trinity and St. X, and this needs to also be said since we're in Jefferson County--CAL. And I have never advocated for the need to have there to be a segregation between Private and Public across the board. It's different per sport.

...but the wrong reasons are given for the disparity. The reason there is a competitive imbalance was that I in the 80's and my kids in the 2020s went to schools with a fixed boundary. Recruiting is a a cheap excuse. Ron'Dale Moore and Stephon Herron were from New Albany and free to pay tuition--or have it paid or sponsored or whatever the language of the day is--to go to Trinity. More power to them. My son played club soccer with a couple kids from Floyd's Knobs that went to Trinity. A kid at CAL could come from anywhere in the state--or the country for that matter--ditto Lexington Catholic or any other private school.

 

[Deli owl]

That is not the issue. The fact is that every single "top program" in whatever HS sport you can name---recruits. It happens at their summer camps. It happens where ever there are kids playing. Schools open their gyms and fields to youth organizations...and their assistants or coaches are around to watch and to recruit. The schools that do not have good coaches or AD's or an administration that cares about athletics will see that reflected in poor on the field performance. I always point to the worst case example right here in Jefferson County. Eastern High. With >2000k its one of KYs largest high schools and has all the athletes you would ever want. Remember Felton Spencer and Rajon Rondo and others. That is because that AD and that Princ were supporters of athletics. When they left, Eastern has never recovered. They are a joke.

Tradition matters. Size matters. Numbers of Male students matters. An Admin that cares matters. Alumni that care matters.

Your second sentence says it all.

 

[nptb]

Reading helps: nearly impossible NEARLY, for the level of competition here to the level to get them ready for the SEC

He did. I watched the game. I actually sat on the Ft. T Highlands side because ours was full. They still brought a nice crowd. At Trinity. 2011. In fairness that Trinity team destroyed everyone they played and was National Champ that year. Quite a nice coaching staff. Collinsworth, maybe the hefty lefty...been 12 or 13 years.

JLO meets the statements parameters. As does Tim Couch.

Did Geno play in the SEC? No.

Gino and UC had the 2002 Ohio St team dead to rights but his no. 1. receiver dropped two td's to win the game. He was good enough to start for any team in the SEC.

Fri, Aug 19, 11	Boyle County	away	(W)	35	-	14	Click​		⇄
Thu, Sep 1, 11	Dixie Heights	home	(W)	61	-	13	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 9, 11	Western	home	(W)	56	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 16, 11	Mason County	away	(W)	71	-	8	Click​		⇄
Sat, Sep 24, 11	Covington Catholic	away	(W)	42	-	37	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 30, 11	Harrison County	home	(W)	68	-	0	Click​		⇄
Thu, Oct 6, 11	Pendleton County	away	(W)	79	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Oct 14, 11	Holmes	home	(W)	77	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Oct 21, 11	Cincinnati Elder, OH	away	(W)	34	-	29	Click​
Fri, Oct 28, 11	Ryle	home	(W)	63	-	14	Click​		⇄
Fri, Nov 4, 11	Boyd County	home	(W)	63	-	7	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 11, 11	Johnson Central	home	(W)	67	-	20	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 18, 11	Covington Catholic	home	(W)	49	-	14	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 25, 11	Lexington Catholic	away	(W)	42	-	21	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Sat, Dec 3, 11	Franklin-Simpson	at Feix Field, Houchens/LT Smith Stadium	(W)	42	-	14	Click​

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Gino and UC had the 2002 Ohio St team dead to rights but his no. 1. receiver dropped two td's to win the game. He was good enough to start for any team in the SEC.

Fri, Aug 19, 11	Boyle County	away	(W)	35	-	14	Click​		⇄
Thu, Sep 1, 11	Dixie Heights	home	(W)	61	-	13	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 9, 11	Western	home	(W)	56	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 16, 11	Mason County	away	(W)	71	-	8	Click​		⇄
Sat, Sep 24, 11	Covington Catholic	away	(W)	42	-	37	Click​		⇄
Fri, Sep 30, 11	Harrison County	home	(W)	68	-	0	Click​		⇄
Thu, Oct 6, 11	Pendleton County	away	(W)	79	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Oct 14, 11	Holmes	home	(W)	77	-	0	Click​		⇄
Fri, Oct 21, 11	Cincinnati Elder, OH	away	(W)	34	-	29	Click​
Fri, Oct 28, 11	Ryle	home	(W)	63	-	14	Click​		⇄
Fri, Nov 4, 11	Boyd County	home	(W)	63	-	7	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 11, 11	Johnson Central	home	(W)	67	-	20	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 18, 11	Covington Catholic	home	(W)	49	-	14	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Fri, Nov 25, 11	Lexington Catholic	away	(W)	42	-	21	Click​	Class 4A Russell Athletic/KHSAA Commonwealth Gridiron Bowl	⇄
Sat, Dec 3, 11	Franklin-Simpson	at Feix Field, Houchens/LT Smith Stadium	(W)	42	-	14	Click​

But he didn't. Cinci is not SEC.

The Elder game result above is the only one that is impressive. I wouldn't have listed the one in the highlights below either.

 

[Emarc]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

And six is 2 too many.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I have been on both sides of this issue, both as a county school student playing football in the 80's and a parent of kids who went through Catholic grade schools in Louisville and then public for high school having just graduated. So when it came to competing against Sacred Heart, Assumption and Mercy in soccer for my daughter she was playing against in many cases people she played with and against in grade school both at the school and Club soccer level. Same with my son against Trinity and St. X, and this needs to also be said since we're in Jefferson County--CAL. And I have never advocated for the need to have there to be a segregation between Private and Public across the board. It's different per sport.

...but the wrong reasons are given for the disparity. The reason there is a competitive imbalance was that I in the 80's and my kids in the 2020s went to schools with a fixed boundary. Recruiting is a a cheap excuse. Ron'Dale Moore and Stephon Herron were from New Albany and free to pay tuition--or have it paid or sponsored or whatever the language of the day is--to go to Trinity. More power to them. My son played club soccer with a couple kids from Floyd's Knobs that went to Trinity. A kid at CAL could come from anywhere in the state--or the country for that matter--ditto Lexington Catholic or any other private school.

What is amazing to me is that NO ONE ever asks the question, why is free tuition at a G-school not worth it? If simply going to school for FREE is your objective---go to the nearest free G-school. But for some reason it is makes you better to pay something, usually thousands. THS tuition is $17K. They max out with tuition assistance for ANY student that applies, based on need. I have two family members at THS and they do not play athletics....but based on need....their tuition was reduced by almost 50% in a totally blind process. So if some athlete whose parents value education and a safe private education where they learn that boys cannot have babies......then God bless them for thinking about their son. The Pubs should ask WHY they cannot sell their education for FREE. That is the real question.

As for the 3 girls schools you mentioned. Another family member played 3 sports (the main ones) and I did not know of a single female athlete that was on tuition assistance because she was an athlete or for any other reason. They were all CSAA kids. And BTW their enrollments are MUCH smaller than T and X. Mercy has like 500ish. They just have a huge commitment to excellence in athletics.

Assumption has tradition, KIVA and the CSAA as a great feeder for Volleyball, MAVA for SHA Union for Mercy maybe. Softball has a bit more of a level playing field though there are few opportunities on the Rec level for girls softball.

 

[Emarc]

Soccer is the most popular sport in the world, but sure

Yeah not smart

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

The catholic girls schools are all much smaller than T and X. If you double their student body size to "equate" with a coed school they still are not that big.

Speaking of Girls softball....look no farther than Ballard (public) for the king of recruiting.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Yeah not smart

That is a silly statement. How many kids play Hockey and Lacross and softball and volleyball and nearly every other sport in El Salvador and Iran and Afghanistan and Indonesia and China. They can afford a ball and some dirt to run around on. Half the world is Female. How many nations do not provide any opportunity for female athletics? Basketball, Volleyball etc...

I already stated that the most populated country on the planet is India...and their most popular sport is Cricket.

Basically a lazy view of athletics. If that is the only opportunity for most of the planet....does that make it popular or just the only option.

 

[nptb]

But he didn't. Cinci is not SEC.

The Elder game result above is the only one that is impressive. I wouldn't have listed the one in the highlights below either.

View embedded media

You posted scrimmage game highlights. Scrimmage games do not count. What are we talking about. Louisville Trinity was better in Highlands in 2011 and 2012 but they did not play an official game.

Gino not playing quarterback in the SEC means what?

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

Yeah well youth soccer is the biggest sport in America and high school soccer draws more fans than baseball. I always laugh at anyone to say soccer isn’t a sport. Generally they are people who can’t run continuously for 90 min having to sprint at times. It is the most popular sport in the world AND it’s far more dangerous than any sport other than hockey. I don’t know anyone who played at a high level I mean like on a top 10 high school program on up who hasn’t had serious injury at some point or lingering injuried that cause problem later in life . The risk factor is so high, you have to have skills, speed, endurance and most of all keeping score qualifies it as a sport. Lol

People who haven’t played/watched high school and collegiate soccer have no idea how challenging it is. I became a huge fan when my daughter got involved and even coached a few years of middle school soccer after spending time with her at camps. I made my basketball players play because it taught them toughness, aggression, space, pace, & was second to none for conditioning. It’s my second favorite sport after basketball.

 

[michaeluk26]

That Male team with Michael Bush was fantastic. There is a youtube video of possibly the best HS game ever played. Michael Bush vs. Brian Brohm. It was a ping-pong match. MB was a hell of a QB, though that was not his actual skill position. He was just a man among boys. If you get a chance to watch the 2nd half you should. WILD.

My junior year he played receiver, and my senior year he was quarterback. It's crazy cause the first time we played they smoked us. The second year they won by 6 cause the fieldhouse field didn't have a full end zone and our guy caught what would've been the game trying touchdown on any other field but a foot simultaneously hit the track and the end zone and we lost. Trying to tackle Bush was like trying to tackle a damn freight train bro. No lie, he was huge for a high school player. Where can I watch that at, YouTube perhaps? I see where you said it's on YouTube, thanks brother.

Also does anyone remember when Boyle County went 45-0 and won 3 straight titles? We played them the very first game of that steak. I was a sophomore and it was the first game I ever started, first game of the year @Boyle. I picked the first pass they threw, it was a 15 yard in but after two steps I believe the dudes last name was Tamme and he sued the state to play an extra year and won. He went on to play at Louisville but he blind side tackled me and knocked me unconscious. It didn't hurt cause there was no time to feel. Anyways we led by 10 going into the fourth quarter. I wasn't allowed to go back in cause one eye was the size of a quarter and the other pin dotted. 100% a concussion. They score and get the two point conversion with 3 minutes to go. It's 3rd and 3 at our 40 and we ran a play action pass and when our QB was going into his drop he sprained his MCL and dropped. Our receivers, one who played at OSU as a walk-on and our other, the runner up for Mister Football, which he should've won considering he had the 2nd longest punt in khsaa history, broke every scoring record and finished 2nd to Shaun Alexander in rushing yards, had 1,500 receiving yards, 9 interceptions and was first team all state at 3 different position and one on second team were WIDE open. We had to punt. They made it down to our 35 and kicked a field goal that hit the upright and crossbar and went in on the final play and they won 33-32. As bad as it hurt the last 9 games the closest anyone came to beating us lost by 38 points until the district championship where we won 25-9.

 

[michaeluk26]

A whole lot of wrong with this post. Jared Lorenzen and Gino Guidugli are the two best Highlands quarterbacks and they both were good enough to excel in any conference. Neither of them lost to Louisville Trinity. The only quarterback you could be talking about is Patrick Towels. He didn't lose Trinity either.

We scrimmaged Highlands one year and I watched Gino throw 60 yards on one knee. He was knelt on the 50 and throwing to a stationary target standing on the back of the end zone line. Perfect tight spiral on every throw and the target never took a step over to catch them. It was insane. Lo

 

[DrH. Lecter]

You posted scrimmage game highlights. Scrimmage games do not count. What are we talking about. Louisville Trinity was better in Highlands in 2011 and 2012 but they did not play an official game.

Gino not playing quarterback in the SEC means what?

You can see from the video that it was a real game. Did you notice the score in the 3rd quarter? 31-0. I was there dude. It was played as a regular game and both teams and fans took it as such. That is why he posted the highlights himself. The Higlands fans comments I heard where quite funny. They knew they were in over their heads.

No different than pre season basketball games. They just don't count against your record.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

People who haven’t played/watched high school and collegiate soccer have no idea how challenging it is. I became a huge fan when my daughter got involved and even coached a few years of middle school soccer after spending time with her at camps. I made my basketball players play because it taught them toughness, aggression, space, pace, & was second to none for conditioning. It’s my second favorite sport after basketball.

I agree that it is a great sport for females. 100%

 

[kornucopia]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

They have 1 division for wrestling as well, but a public school has been dominating it the past 18 years.

 

[Creed Bratton]

I'm just curious if anyone knows the number of basketball state titles won by each class? In the modern era especially I can't imagine many have been won by schools that are a Class 1A, 2A or 3A.

 

[nptb]

You can see from the video that it was a real game. Did you notice the score in the 3rd quarter? 31-0. I was there dude. It was played as a regular game and both teams and fans took it as such. That is why he posted the highlights himself. The Higlands fans comments I heard where quite funny. They knew they were in over their heads.

No different than pre season basketball games. They just don't count against your record.

It was a scrimmage. It didn't count. That is not even the point. The point is where you play doesn't affect you being ready to play in college. Some players either have it or they don't. James Quick was going to be James Quick no matter where he went and the same for Mike Bush and Brian Brohm. Towels messed up by going to Kentucky in the first place as he needed to go somewhere that was going to better develop him as a quarterback. I can't think of the last time Kentucky had an explosive offense that featured a quarterback.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

They have 1 division for wrestling as well, but a public school has been dominating it the past 18 years.

That is what tradition and commitment to winning does for you. What school is that? I am guessing the lure of free tuition didn't hurt them.

 

[LordEggForgotHisPassword]

Public Schools recruit too. Im looking at you FDHS

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Here is why Trinity has an advantage. This is the Freshman team. NUMBERS not tuition cost----matters.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

I agree that it is a great sport for females. 100%

Nice. Good for you.

 

[kornucopia]

That is what tradition and commitment to winning does for you. What school is that? I am guessing the lure of free tuition didn't hurt them.

Union County, enrollment of less than 700. won 16 state titles, 13 since 2007.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Nice. Good for you.

I meant that as a compliment to female athletes. You can't generally look at a female athlete and tell what sport she plays. Volleyball obviously especially with middles is easy. Softball players have a look.

With males it is easier to spot the soccer beta male. The manbun is a give-away. They would get broken in half playing football....unless in the place kicker spot where they excel. Or being 5'6 makes it easy to see that they are not playing US "hand-eye coordination" sports. There is a place for a kid if he has been cut from the Baseball or Basketball team. He can run around aimlessly in the grass with the other betas. I say this with all due respect.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Union County, enrollment of less than 700. won 16 state titles, 13 since 2007.

Do they have like a former Olympian as a coach? The wrestlers are the hardest workers on campus. That shows what COMMITMENT to excellence and tradition do for you. They outwork the rest and it pays dividends.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

I meant that as a compliment to female athletes. You can't generally look at a female athlete and tell what sport she plays. Volleyball obviously especially with middles is easy. Softball players have a look.

With males it is easier to spot the soccer beta male. The manbun is a give-away. They would get broken in half playing football....unless in the place kicker spot where they excel. Or being 5'6 makes it easy to see that they are not playing US "hand-eye coordination" sports. There is a place for a kid if he has been cut from the Baseball or Basketball team. He can run around aimlessly in the grass with the other betas. I say this with all due respect.

Maybe that’s males who play where you live or you’re caught up on European haircuts on TV but for the most part high school soccer players are multi sport athletes. Many play football or basketball or both depending on when soccer season is. Ndamukong Su, Odell Beckham, Chad Johnson, Andrew Luck, Wes Welker, Marcus Mariotta, Steve Nash, Giannis, and several other NBA players all have soccer backgrounds and played. It’s as physical as basketball and the coordination & footwork needed to play at a high level is ridiculous. Guys at the top level could excel in any sport they choose, much like the NBA player who just came over from lacrosse or the track guys who end up in the NFL. So while your backhanded compliment may have meant well, it’s just an ignorant take. No offense meant, you just don’t know.

 

[ORCAT]

I haven’t lived in Kentucky since 1981 ( I was 5), so take this with a grain of salt. I looked at volleyball, softball and girls soccer. IMO, they should move to multiple divisions by school size.. I get keeping 1 single division in basketball based on tradition in a basketball crazy state, but what’s the reason for that in other sports? Why are there 6 divisions in football but only 1 in volleyball, softball, soccer, etc (I think)?

That, I think, would be the right solution and makes perfect sense.

 

[kornucopia]

Do they have like a former Olympian as a coach? The wrestlers are the hardest workers on campus. That shows what COMMITMENT to excellence and tradition do for you. They outwork the rest and it pays dividends.

The do not. They have former D1 Big Ten heavyweight and a Cambellsville wrestler (light weight) as co head coaches. They have twins who are juniors thatll be olympic level in a short few years. The community is bought in and its a freight train that is hard to stop.