Kentucky vs. Clemson Game Thread

[Digger-Cat]

Butler played well.

If he stayed out of foul trouble and didn't get hurt, this was a W.

If we play the if game, we can do it on free throws, rebounding and missed threes too. We weren't sound at any aspect of the game and Clemson barely got us.

I don't think Clemson is any good at all, we beat ourselves.

This is game #8 , I am stunned that Pope, as smart as he is, has not fixed our rebounding. Our guys stand there and watch the ball fly through the air instead of getting into rebounding position.

Also, there is no reason why we are missing soooo many free throws. These are seniors and they are all good shooters.

You could point to 1 of 6 or 7 things that we did poorly tonight and it took all of those things for Clemson to eek out a win on their home court. That is not a good team.

 

[BradleyCrawford08]

This has always been the thing. But he has to get a pass this year since he literally could not recruit.

But yeah.......ultimately you need good coaching but that could only take you so far. You still need some top tier guys.

Pope needs that one big time recruit along with other top prospects that can help move the needle. Similar to how Pitino had Mashburn and Cal had Wall in their early seasons.

 

[The_Answer1313]

Pope's system has put a good bit of playmaking pressure on our 5's. Garrison and Williams just don't quite fit that mold.

It's a weak link.

I did think at the end Williams did some good things down the stretch but yeah........obviously not a strong point for us.

 

[Lempface]

Going to be a lot of overreactions to tonight after this one .

Yep, bad game for sure, but conference titles and deep tournament runs aren't won in Nov.

 

[catfan220]

That could be fair. Williams made some TO’s. I was just thinking that #4 would have had 35 Rebs if not for Amari

I thought he got better towards the end of the game when he parked in the post. I know plus/minus can be deceiving, but the box score supports having Amari in tier 1:

Butler +17
Amari +16

Carr +8

Robinson -1
Almonor -1
Oweh -3

Brea -15
Garrison-20
Kerr -21

I think Carr was worse than his +/- and Oweh was better, the rest seems about right.

 

[LmdCat]

The reality is we got a bunch of mid major guys that were there for a reason. They are damn good players but not as athletic as the traditional P4 player. With that said Pope did seem to be a little discombobulated tonight.

Rotation was tightened up and fatigue seemed to be in play. Very little changes to offense to run action to get guys open. Minimal changes to defense. Insisting on running offense through Williams who thinks he is a good ball handler. Ball sticking in Carrs and Williams hands.

This is going to be what they see consistently through the SEC and I don’t think Carr and Williams are tough enough to make a deep run.

The guys need to see how even ESPN was giddy over the loss. They better learn pretty damn quick their toughness will be challenged every game from here o

Their best 2 player shot 6/28 and Kentucky still lost. That’s not a good sign at all. The season ain’t over but Kentucky got exposed some tonight

Their best two players didn't have to do much when their stiff and football player were scoring fairly easy around the basket. I was even more disappointed when the dude with the receding hairline who looked 35 years old seemed to take over the game.

 

[FutureCity]

His back down dribbling skills are atrocious. I cringe every time he dribbles the ball.

He would start trying to back it in from 2' inside the free throw line.

 

[The_Answer1313]

If we play the if game, we can do it on free throws, rebounding and missed threes too. We weren't sound at any aspect of the game and Clemson barely got us.

I don't think Clemson is any good at all, we beat ourselves.

This is game #8 , I am stunned that Pope, as smart as he is, has not fixed our rebounding. Our guys stand there and watch the ball fly through the air instead of getting into rebounding position.

Also, there is no reason why we are missing soooo many free throws. These are seniors and they are all good shooters.

You could point to 1 of 6 or 7 things that we did poorly tonight and it took all of those things for Clemson to eek out a win on their home court. That is not a good team.

But some guys on this team are actually not good free shooters. Williams has 3 years of data to show he's clearly a low 60% free throw shooter.

I think we just need to accept there are certain things this team will not do well. Free Throws probably one of them.

Rebounding too...................tho I will say in the 2nd half we did a much better job limiting the offensive boards.

 

[fatguy87]

Bringing up Uconn is a great point tho.

Hurley.......the guy a lot of people wanted as coach on this board. The guy who's team won back to back National Titles. That team has lost 3 in a row. And their schedule isn't going to get any easier any time soon.

It happens to even good coaches.

During Hurley's first championship season, UConn went 4-6 in a 10 game stretch in the heart of conference play. They lost 7 games in the conference season and a game in the conference tournament.

 

[shaudyshaud]

Yep, bad game for sure, but conference titles and deep tournament runs aren't won in Nov.

I just don’t get the reaction at times on this board . Trust me I hate losing and I’m disappointed anytime we lose .

But if you didn’t watch this game and just read this board you would think we lost by 20 tonight . Road game to a 7-1 team that went to the elite 8 last year . I know they lost Hall but they returned some key guys.

Maybe I’m just too laid back . I’d love to see some of there folks at a bar to see how they act lol

 

[The_Answer1313]

During Hurley's first championship season, UConn went 4-6 in a 10 game stretch in the heart of conference play. They lost 7 games in the conference season and a game in the conference tournament.

Yep. They had lost 6 of 8 at one point and it caused them to be a 4 seed. I think they had some injuries during that time but still.

These things happen.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Is it me or tell me how many times did we give up a drive to the basket with no weak side help???!!!

Every time. I was screaming it so many times at my tv I’m pretty sure my neighbors heard it.

 

[LmdCat]

He would start trying to back it in from 2' inside the free throw line.

When he attempts to back his man down with the dribble, he reminds me of young kids at the Boys and Girls Club with the ball who are trying to learn how to dribble.

 

[CrimsonCats]

Pope's system has put a good bit of playmaking pressure on our 5's. Garrison and Williams just don't quite fit that mold.

I think Williams is actually a decent passer, but we need to tweak what we’re asking him to do. Mainly, I wish we would stop trying to have him create off the dribble from the top of the key. He’s zero threat to shoot it from out there, so the defense can afford to play way off of him, then when he ends up dribbling towards them with their heels dug in, it doesn’t seem to be leading to many positive outcomes. I’d like to see him catch the ball in the post a little more and let him kick out if the defense collapses with less trying to have him be a perimeter ball handler.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I think Williams is actually a decent passer, but we need to tweak what we’re asking him to do. Mainly, I wish we would stop trying to have him create off the dribble from the top of the key. He’s zero threat to shoot it from out there, so the defense can afford to play way off of him, then when he ends up dribbling towards them with their heel dug in, it doesn’t seem to be leading to many positive outcomes. I’d like to see him catch the ball in the post a little more and let him kick out if the defense collapses with less trying to have him be a perimeter ball handler.

Yeah we cannot have Williams outside the paint handling the ball.

I just don't think that's his game and he was a turnover waiting to happen out there.

 

[fatguy87]

It's a weak link.

I did think at the end Williams did some good things down the stretch but yeah........obviously not a strong point for us.

It sticks out and has downstream impact on the ease we generate buckets.

Williams had some good post ups towards the end and had a defensive impact. I think defending was why he stayed on the floor for the most part. He has stuck out in a bad away against the more competent defensive teams. He shot 25% against Duke. He had 6 turnovers against WKU in only 20 minutes. And tonight, he had 9 points on 8 shots with 4 turnovers.

We may need to play less 5 out with Williams on the court and have him in a more traditional 5 role.

 

[Digger-Cat]

But some guys on this team are actually not good free shooters. Williams has 3 years of data to show he's clearly a low 60% free throw shooter.

I think we just need to accept there are certain things this team will not do well. Free Throws probably one of them.

Rebounding too...................tho I will say in the 2nd half we did a much better job limiting the offensive boards.

We're talking about free throws. It's not like we're talking about athleticism, height, or length, those things can't be fixed through hard work, free throw shooting is something that is improved with practice.

I refuse to acceot that these guys are just bad free throw shooters and nothing can he done about it and hopefully Pope doesn't just accept it either.

You get in the gym and you develop that muscle memory. It's no different than any other skill, you have to practice shooting.

 

[LmdCat]

That could be fair. Williams made some TO’s. I was just thinking that #4 would have had 35 Rebs if not for Amari

We don't have a choice but to play Williams. However, it isn't a good choice. I think we were victims of our early success. The guys look like they believe they have arrived and they simply are not giving the effort. I don't think a single player should feel good about his performance.

 

[The_Answer1313]

8 games into this season I think two things:

1) This team is going to have a bunch of losses in SEC play. The conference is tough and road games will be brutal. But given the amount of opportunities against good competition, our resume will be good and our seeding will as well.

2) Having said that, this team is more than capable of making a deep run in the tournament.

I could kind of see a 2011 type season happening where we lose a bunch of close games mostly on the road but put together a run in March.

 

[The_Answer1313]

We're talking about free throws. It's not like we're talking about athleticism, height, or length, those things can't be fixed through hard work, free throw shooting is something that is improved with practice.

I refuse to acceot that these guys are just bad free throw shooters and nothing can he done about it and hopefully Pope doesn't just accept it either.

You get in the gym and you develop that muscle memory. It's no different than any other skill, you have to practice shooting.

You'd think that but very often the shooting numbers tend to be what they are previously.

It's rare you see guys suddenly go from below average to above average. And I have a hard time thinking that no one is practicing these things.

I tend to think players do some things well and other things not so well. It's not to say you can't improve but just that you don't really see drastic improvements. Those are the rarity.

 

[fatguy87]

8 games into this season I think two things:

1) This team is going to have a bunch of losses in SEC play. The conference is tough and road games will be brutal. But given the amount of opportunities against good competition, our resume will be good and our seeding will as well.

2) Having said that, this team is more than capable of making a deep run in the tournament.

I could kind of see a 2011 type season happening where we lose a bunch of close games mostly on the road but put together a run in March.

The chances they are a top 3 team this year is pretty slim.

They can, however be in that 5-12 range and in the hunt for 3 seed or better. The SEC is so difficult, that they could accumulate like 10 losses and still be in the hunt for a 2 seed.

 

[The_Answer1313]

The chances they are a top 3 team this year is pretty slim.

They can, however be in that 5-12 range and in the hunt for 3 seed or better. The SEC is so difficult, that they could accumulate like 10 losses and still be in the hunt for a 2 seed.

Yep. I think that's what we should be shooting for here.

And if they land a 2/3 seed, they could certainly turn that into a tournament run.

 

[LmdCat]

I just don’t get the reaction at times on this board . Trust me I hate losing and I’m disappointed anytime we lose .

But if you didn’t watch this game and just read this board you would think we lost by 20 tonight . Road game to a 7-1 team that went to the elite 8 last year . I know they lost Hall but they returned some key guys.

Maybe I’m just too laid back . I’d love to see some of there folks at a bar to see how they act lol

I can't speak for others, but I am more disappointed with the effort than the loss. I don't believe anyone can seriously tell me that they believe this team played hard tonight. I will be surprised if Pope doesn't call his players out for a lack of effort. He won't necessarily use the words that I did but he will nevertheless talk about effort.

 

[darkshadesofblue]

Not your night when you’re up against the crowd, the officials feeding a crowd and crazy banked in shots all going against you. Playing your first true road game with a new set of players is never easy. Adjustments need to be made, and they will. This team will absorb this loss and move on.

 

[The_Answer1313]

I can't speak for others, but I am more disappointed with the effort than the loss. I don't believe anyone can seriously tell me that they believe this team played hard tonight. I will be surprised if Pope doesn't call his players out for a lack of effort. He won't necessarily use the words that I did but he will nevertheless talk about effort.

Of course they played hard.

They just didn't shoot it well enough

 

[drew_ukfan]

Glad I didn’t stay up for it

 

[Digger-Cat]

You'd think that but very often the shooting numbers tend to be what they are previously.

It's rare you see guys suddenly go from below average to above average. And I have a hard time thinking that no one is practicing these things.

I tend to think players do some things well and other things not so well. It's not to say you can't improve but just that you don't really see drastic improvements. Those are the rarity.

It's rare, because the ones that don’t improve, simply aren't working on it. This is something that is easily improved. It's not like we're talking about Shaq here, we're talking about guys that can shoot the ball, this is something you have to work at.
If they don't improve, they're going to lose more games than they should.
The rebounding is another big issue. 8 games in and these guys are still watching the ball go through the air as they're slowly jogging down the court.
That was a winnable game, we beat ourselves so many ways, but the 2 most glaring things were FT's and rebounding. Since we don't have uber athletic guys that can get to the rim, these are the things we have to be good at and there's no reason why they can't be good at those things.

 

[Bluegrass79]

Next time we play a guy that's playing his ass off for his team and we're about to lose..... Put the two Kentucky guys in the ****ing game. Let them show you what it is to play for KENTUCKY.
I'd rather lose by the hand of Kentucky blood than watch a bunch of Jack offs not from the State lose.
Trent Noah don't miss those shots that Oweh did, that Krissa did. Bet your ass on it.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Very physical game. And, yet, Clemson had only 6 fouls near the end of the game, while it was in the double bonus.

WKU gave a roadmap to guarding UK. Georgia State followed. Physical and deny the three. Even so, Oweh had theee good looks from the perimeter that would have really made this a toss up game.

Amari needs to be on the floor, especially with BG playing limited minutes. He cannot play loose with the ball. Everything needs to be disciplined. Teams are reluctant to double down on his backdown, because they do not want him to hit the open three shooter, but he needs to still keep the ball closer to his body and limit the big sweeping motions.

 

[Edgarman]

Only sec team to lose lol for a blue blood we get the worst whistles I ever seen

Blue blood does not or should not make a difference in the whistle. Are you saying that we should get special treatment for being a blue blood. Sadly, blue blood status will certainly be challenged with NIL and portal going forward. May see teams with the most money become "blue bloods." Life in college sports is nothing like the past. Everyone can now "legally cheat." If you don't think that NIL has not leveled the playing field, you best take a closr look. I think NIL will eliminate dominate teams in all sports. In the past kids wanted to and felt privileged to play for the mighty UK Wildcats. Today those kids thoughts have changed to "pay me." The new NIL and portal has ruined football, basketball, and even baseball at the college level. We just have to accept that if we get a great player, there is a good chance that next year someone will out bid us and he will be gone. It sucks!

 

[Edgarman]

We had the same exact number of offensive and defensive rebounds as Clemson. That doesn't happen very often.

Clemson had 14 offensive rebounds and we had 10. over all Clemson had 42 rebounds and we had 35. this is per box score. You may be right but box score this morning showed the numbers i listed.

 

[fatguy87]

Clemson had 14 offensive rebounds and we had 10. over all Clemson had 42 rebounds and we had 35. this is per box score. You may be right but box score this morning showed the numbers i listed.

It appears you are correct. I referenced ESPN's box score last night which was wrong.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Holy shit! Clemson just won the title! Wait, they didn't? Oh, they sure are acting like it.

I hope SMU beats the shit out of them in football. Would be delicious karma.

Most Clemson fans had no idea there was a basketball game being played.

 

[Jamal Sunburn]

The bigger issue was missing the open three when creation actually did occur.

Relying on 3’s from journeymen college players is not as reliable as getting easy 2s or getting to the line. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[The_Answer1313]

Relying on 3’s from journeymen college players is not as reliable as getting easy 2s or getting to the line. 🤷🏽‍♂️

True............tho I guess we really should have expected this given the type of players on this current team.