Just watched the 98 team run. Biggest notice

[brianpoe]

I've always felt that Tubby winning that title in his first year was the worst thing that could have happened to him. He didn't have anywhere to go but down after that season and that's what he did. I believe he thought he could win titles at UK playing any style he wanted to.

That's a good point Chuck and I have heard this before.

As @.S&C. mentioned, if he had added just another final four it would have helped him immensely, but not forever.

 

[.S&C.]

After 1998 tubby never defeated a team seeded above a six seed in the NCAA tournament . And he was at Kentucky ! Don't see how he can be considered even a " good " coach . I'd say average .

Ask 10 years ago when I was 20 and I'd tell you to get his ass a one way ticket out. Ask me at thirty looking back on it, I'd still want that ticket bought, but probably with a better feeling about him.

It's not Our fault tubby refused to hold himself to a standard, recruit, and listen to his fans and bosses when they asked him for 3 years to ditch Dobbs and Hansen and get a staff than can recruit. Anyone still blaming the fans in any way TOTALLY has an agenda. He literally left when forced to adhere to the will of the people in charge, and acted as if it were out of loyalty. Then of course, in tubby fasion, didn't hire them once he left. Tubby was just "butting heads" and it turned south here.

 

[yoshukai]

I've always felt that Tubby winning that title in his first year was the worst thing that could have happened to him. He didn't have anywhere to go but down after that season and that's what he did. I believe he thought he could win titles at UK playing any style he wanted to.

Don't see how you can say that . We would have gotten rid of his lazy ass a whole lot sooner . Can you lmagine the heat he would have taken if , after going to the final four in 93,96,and 97 , we never went under him . That year is his one shining accomplishment and will be his only final four in an overrated career . Kentucky fans don't expect championships because of Tubby . We ALWAYS have , and coaches that don't get them don't stick around for long .

 

[brianpoe]

Don't see how you can say that . We would have gotten rid of his lazy ass a whole lot sooner . Can you lmagine the heat he would have taken if , after going to the final four in 93,96,and 97 , we never went under him . That year is his one shining accomplishment and will be his only final four in an overrated career . Kentucky fans don't expect championships because of Tubby . We ALWAYS have , and coaches that don't get them don't stick around for long .

"overrated career"


Again, only UK fans believe this.

I will bet you Tubby gets in the HOF.

 

[.S&C.]

"overrated career"


Again, only UK fans believe this.

I will bet you Tubby gets in the HOF.

I used to hate Tubby but I actually like him. When I write to him about his charities and mine, he always sends things for us to make some money on. He's a good guy.

Is he "overrated"? I think it depends on who you're asking. Was he overrated when he left UK by ESPN? Absolutely. Did people like Rick over rate him for personal gain? Absolutely. Do some UK fans underrate him because they follow a team that expects a few more final four runs? Absolutely. It's all relative and subjective.

Tubby deserved a banner here and I'm glad we get to add him to our accomplishment of "5 NCAA championships under different coaches". I've been able to cool on him, but I must say, that's also due to the fact that I don't have to worry about him at my school anymore.

I just don't think it's a "one size fits all" conversation. But I do believe people that won't be real about his shortcomings have every bit as big of an agenda as people who blast him, and Probably more.

 

[brianpoe]

I used to hate Tubby but I actually like him. When I write to him about his charities and mine, he always sends things for us to make some money on. He's a good guy.

Is he "overrated"? I think it depends on who you're asking. Was he overrated when he left UK by ESPN? Absolutely. Did people like Rick over rate him for personal gain? Absolutely. Do some UK fans underrate him because they follow a team that expects a few more final four runs? Absolutely. It's all relative and subjective.

Tubby deserved a banner here and I'm glad we get to add him to our accomplishment of "5 NCAA championships under different coaches". I've been able to cool on him, but I must say, that's also due to the fact that I don't have to worry about him at my school anymore.

I just don't think it's a "one size fits all" conversation. But I do believe people that won't be real about his shortcomings have every bit as big of an agenda as people who blast him, and Probably more.

On the national scene he is not considered overrated. I agree with @yoshukai that in the end he didnt meet the requirements here.

However, I have zero doubts he will be in the HOF. Only John Thompson has a more impressive resume of the black coaches.

Championships
NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship (1998)
Regional Championships – Final Four (1998)
5 SEC regular season championships (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005)
5 SEC Tournament championships (1998,1999, 2001, 2003, 2004)
2 MVC regular season championships (1994, 1995)
Awards
AP College Coach of the Year (2003)
Naismith College Coach of the Year (2003)
NABC Coach of the Year (2003)
Henry Iba Award (2003)
Jim Phelan Award (2005)
2× MVC Coach of the Year (1994, 1995)
3× SEC Coach of the Year (1998, 2003, 2005)



If John Cheney is in the Hall then Tubby is a shoo-in.

 

[Bkocats]

Enjoyed the 98 team immensely - well, after the near heart attacks at least, haha

Tubby is a very nice guy

 

[CELTICAT]

Sorry but not so sure Saul is a great example. Saul gave Turner a rest. But not so sure we didnt have other guys who could of ran the point while Turner got a rest. I was never a Saul fan. And believe Tubby played him way to much the following year while sitting Turner. Do we want to talk about the Mich St game were Tubby got out coached and we lost a trip to the Final 4?

I also believe Tubby did not go after other PGs as hard as he should have during Sauls career. But just my opinion.

It's not about a good example or bad example. It's the only example. Saul Smith was a Tubby player that played in the final four. It's also true that Tubby never returned to the final four. That's all I'm adding to the discussion.

 

[yoshukai]

On the national scene he is not considered overrated. I agree with @yoshukai that in the end he didnt meet the requirements here.

However, I have zero doubts he will be in the HOF. Only John Thompson has a more impressive resume of the black coaches.

Championships
NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship (1998)
Regional Championships – Final Four (1998)
5 SEC regular season championships (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005)
5 SEC Tournament championships (1998,1999, 2001, 2003, 2004)
2 MVC regular season championships (1994, 1995)
Awards
AP College Coach of the Year (2003)
Naismith College Coach of the Year (2003)
NABC Coach of the Year (2003)
Henry Iba Award (2003)
Jim Phelan Award (2005)
2× MVC Coach of the Year (1994, 1995)
3× SEC Coach of the Year (1998, 2003, 2005)



If John Cheney is in the Hall then Tubby is a shoo-in.

And I've got no problem with that . Like you pointed out , there are ALOT of coaches in the HOF with not so great records . Seems like longevity is the key . All but the two Missouri Valley championships occurred while he was at Kentucky . We made his career and I honestly think there were LOTS of coaches that could have accomplished more . I'm just going to say Brian Poe , while you are one of my favorite posters and we are of like minds on the vast majority of issues , we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Tubby issue . The man almost made me stop following the cats . I just never thought we were a serious contender . Peace Brother .

 

[.S&C.]

On the national scene he is not considered overrated. I agree with @yoshukai that in the end he didnt meet the requirements here.

However, I have zero doubts he will be in the HOF. Only John Thompson has a more impressive resume of the black coaches.

Championships
NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship (1998)
Regional Championships – Final Four (1998)
5 SEC regular season championships (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005)
5 SEC Tournament championships (1998,1999, 2001, 2003, 2004)
2 MVC regular season championships (1994, 1995)
Awards
AP College Coach of the Year (2003)
Naismith College Coach of the Year (2003)
NABC Coach of the Year (2003)
Henry Iba Award (2003)
Jim Phelan Award (2005)
2× MVC Coach of the Year (1994, 1995)
3× SEC Coach of the Year (1998, 2003, 2005)



If John Cheney is in the Hall then Tubby is a shoo-in.

What do you mean "black coaches?" Pretty sure tubby has a white grandmother.

 

[brianpoe]

And I've got no problem with that . Like you pointed out , there are ALOT of coaches in the HOF with not so great records . Seems like longevity is the key . All but the two Missouri Valley championships occurred while he was at Kentucky . We made his career and I honestly think there were LOTS of coaches that could have accomplished more . I'm just going to say Brian Poe , while you are one of my favorite posters and we are of like minds on the vast majority of issues , we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Tubby issue . The man almost made me stop following the cats . I just never thought we were a serious contender . Peace Brother .

Dont get me wrong, my entire point in this thread was regarding the OP selling Tubby a little short in 1998. Not sure RP would have done much better, very good season.

I definitely would have liked to have seen better results from that year forward.

And Tubby is a good coach, he took Tulsa and UGA to S16's 3 times... but that isnt UK level.

Honestly, as to UK level, in my opinion, Joe B. was good, then Tubby, Eddie below him and Clyde just awful.

Rick and Cal were/are great, and Rupp is Rupp.

 

[brianpoe]

What do you mean "black coaches?" Pretty sure tubby has a white grandmother.

Dont be bringing all of your PC, liberal, progressive point of views in this thread lefty...

 

[.S&C.]

@brianpoe i agree though. I've spent countless hours arguing with my Memphis buddies about how Tubbys accomplishments would make him the Memphis Tigers God. He adds a lot to our "list". At this point I let go of all the bad until the race baitors and idiots with that sort of agenda get going. Then we have to discuss it in more detail. Knowuttamean?

 

[.S&C.]

Dont get me wrong, my entire point in this thread was regarding the OP selling Tubby a little short in 1998. Not sure RP would have done much better, very good season.

I definitely would have liked to have seen better results from that year forward.

And Tubby is a good coach, he took Tulsa and UGA to S16's 3 times... but that isnt UK level.

Honestly, as to UK level, in my opinion, Joe B. was good, then Tubby, Eddie below him and Clyde just awful.

Rick and Cal were/are great, and Rupp is Rupp.

Joe B Hall following a legend, winning an NIT title, NCAA title, and three final fours makes him one of the greats IMO. How many coaches can top that? Not too many. IMO he's top 3 most underrated coaches in history.

 

[.S&C.]

Dont be bringing all of your PC, liberal, progressive point of views in this thread lefty...

I'll try to with hold my Hillary love for your sake.

 

[Robcatt24]

Would a good guy invent asthma for one player so that he would have an excuse to play his son?

 

[.S&C.]

Would a good guy invent asthma for one player so that he would have an excuse to play his son?

I hated Saul with a passion. The first season I really remember super well was 1993. So I was a young teen and die hard UK fan in the mid 90's. It should be pretty understandable considering what I was accustomed to.

 

[.S&C.]

^^^^^^Being used to ford, epps, turner Delk etc...

I then turn 13 and see Saul.

"Dad, what is that?"

"Son, just close your eyes. It will all be over soon".

 

[brianpoe]

Joe B Hall following a legend, winning an NIT title, NCAA title, and three final fours makes him one of the greats IMO. How many coaches can top that? Not too many. IMO he's top 3 most underrated coaches in history.

That is a very good point, but the reason Joe isnt great to me is because Rick, Cal and Rupp set the "great" standard.

Imagine if Rick and Cal coached here 13 years...

 

[.S&C.]

That is a very good point, but the reason Joe isnt great to me is because Rick, Cal and Rupp set the "great" standard.

Imagine if Rick and Cal coached here 13 years...

Oh I agree, I just think 3 final fours and a title(NIT too) in 13 years at any school today would be considered great. That's Rick Pitino at Louisville.

 

[brianpoe]

Oh I agree, I just think 3 final fours and a title(NIT too) in 13 years at any school today would be considered great. That's Rick Pitino at Louisville.

Key word...Louisville.

See now you have caught me judging on @yoshukai 's UK criteria instead of college basketball standards.

 

[.S&C.]

Key word...Louisville.

See now you have caught me judging on @yoshukai 's UK criteria instead of college basketball standards.

Oh but see I'm having to battle several UK people around here calling Lousiville a top 6-7 program. We're both all over the page.

 

[BoulderCat]

Your wrong. Read all my posts. I thought not calling time outs down the stretch when coach K was out was a great coaching move on Tubbys part. At The same time Duke had a SN point guard in Wojo, you would of thought he could of calmed Duke down. But Turner took Wojo out of the game. Had we not had solid players that made plays Tubby would of had to call time outs. So works both ways.

But in no way am I taking anything from Tubby. What I am doing is pointing out just how good that team was.

Fair 'nuf.