Just watched the 98 team run. Biggest notice

[whhs22]

Was the officials. Huge difference that made for some great games.

Also Tubby got lucky. That had to be one of the highest I.Q teams ive ever seen.

Also Mohammed was that good. He got winded quit. But Tubby had Maglore to step in.

Todays game Evans would be a top pick. That guy left handed just knew the game. No question in my mind those kids won Tubby a NC. Couple times im watching i was questioning why Tubby had who he had in. Luckly those young men wanted it. But not so sure we had . To be the come back cats . With those guys under Pitino we would of been the blow out cats.

Just my opinion. My opinion should not be with out the proper supervision and is for professionals.

 

[brianpoe]

Tubby won the championship, he did a great job vs Duke going small and attacking Wojo.

It takes a great group of players to win one, but Tubby did his part as well.

Tubby lost 4 games and won the title, Rick lost 5 games the previous season with the same team and, had Mercer and DA ( at least 1/2 the season) and didnt.


Tubby's later years shouldnt define the first one.

 

[whhs22]

Tubby did somethings i thought helped. But he also did somethings that hurt. That was a special team. If Rick had them in my opinion no way we have to come back on late game heroics.

 

[STL_Cat]

Good lord.

 

[brianpoe]

Tubby did somethings i thought helped. But he also did somethings that hurt. That was a special team. If Rick had them in my opinion no way we have to come back on late game heroics.

It very easy to look back after the fact and find issues. Coaches that win championships coached well at that time.

 

[mj2k10]

Tubby won the championship, he did a great job vs Duke going small and attacking Wojo.

It takes a great group of players to win one, but Tubby did his part as well.

Tubby lost 4 games and won the title, Rick lost 5 games the previous season with the same team and, had Mercer and DA ( at least 1/2 the season) and didnt.


Tubby's later years shouldnt define the first one.

Absolutely was NOT the same team in 97 as 98. First of all, that 97 team lost once with a healthy Derek Anderson, and that was the very first game of the year. Second, there was no Jeff Sheppard or Heshimu Evans in 97. Third, by the time UK reached the FF, Allen Edwards was hurt and Cameron Mills was pretty much the only healthy depth at guard. Finally, Mohammed developed over the course of the 96-97 season (out of necessity), Magloire was a freshman, and Scott Padgett was a totally unproven commodity who had sat out a year.

Tubby did just fine and dandy in 98, but don't try to rewrite history in his favor.

 

[.S&C.]

Tubby completely out coached coach K against Duke in 98. There's no doubt about it. Took Wojo completely out of the game.


There's no denying however, that not one player on that team was his. Some people don't like it, but it is what it is. The fact that he's never seen another final four puts the nail in the coffin. We were totally justified in his removal.

 

[Icecoldbrewdoggy]

That F4 at the Alamo Dome was amazing. When the SEC chant went up and then the "We want Packer" (Billy Packer) chant went up after the game I got chills.

Side note: Utah fans were awful. They'd get a table of 20 people at a restaurant, drink and eat for hours and then tip the waitress 10 bucks.

 

[brianpoe]

Absolutely was NOT the same team in 97 as 98. First of all, that 97 team lost once with a healthy Derek Anderson, and that was the very first game of the year. Second, there was no Jeff Sheppard or Heshimu Evans in 97. Third, by the time UK reached the FF, Allen Edwards was hurt and Cameron Mills was pretty much the only healthy depth at guard. Finally, Mohammed developed over the course of the 96-97 season (out of necessity), Magloire was a freshman, and Scott Padgett was a totally unproven commodity who had sat out a year.

Tubby did just fine and dandy in 98, but don't try to rewrite history in his favor.

Stop crying to me magic.

I would take Mercer and DA over Shep and Evans - everyday...

People that say Tubby doesnt deserve that championship or that it was all Rick are being dumb.


Rick did fantastic for us, I was using a little hyperbole because the OP stated how dominant that team would have been under Rick.

That wasn't necessarily a great Pitino team, and if anybody remembers we were definitely not in the running for the title preseason.

Good ol' Tubby wasn't made for the UK job but he coached a great season and a great tournament and it really doesn't matter who recruited the kids or who they played for the year prior.

 

[legalbeagle123]

Jeff Sheppard went on an absolute monstrous run the last 10-12 games of the year (except that one game he missed with ankle sprain). One of the best displays of post-season shooting I've seen.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

for some reason, i feel like this has already been discussed here.

 

[brianpoe]

for some reason, i feel like this has already been discussed here.

I honestly had no idea people had an opinion and would respond to a topic regarding Tubster on here....

 

[kyboy1998]

Tubby was a good coach. He was remarkable his first 8 seasons if you look at his average tournament seeding, win percentage and tournament wins (overall) and changed the name on the jersey.

He was good. He just happened to be at a place that requires great.

I liked, and respect, Tubby. 03 thru 05 was a great run that just didn't get the hardware it deserved.

 

[mebeblue2]

Tubby did the best coaching job in that run i have ever witnessed at UK
it is a shame he hated to recruit

Pitino had much better talent in 95 and 97 and did not win the title
so what in the world makes you think he would have won it with a much less talented team in 98

not defending Tubby, but i do believe in giving credit where credit is due
don't let your Tubby hate blind you to the truth

 

[CloverforkCat]

Tubby did somethings i thought helped. But he also did somethings that hurt. That was a special team. If Rick had them in my opinion no way we have to come back on late game heroics.

If Ricky P had that team they wouldn't have won it. Too much full court pressing, the year before USC guards ate the Cats up on Senior day.

 

[yoshukai]

Stop crying to me magic.

I would take Mercer and DA over Shep and Evans - everyday...

People that say Tubby doesnt deserve that championship or that it was all Rick are being dumb.


Rick did fantastic for us, I was using a little hyperbole because the OP stated how dominant that team would have been under Rick.

That wasn't necessarily a great Pitino team, and if anybody remembers we were definitely not in the running for the title preseason.

Good ol' Tubby wasn't made for the UK job but he coached a great season and a great tournament and it really doesn't matter who recruited the kids or who they played for the year prior.

We didn't have DA . He missed the last half of the season and I'm bettin you agree with me that we would have EASILY won the championship if he could have played .

 

[yoshukai]

Tubby was a good coach. He was remarkable his first 8 seasons if you look at his average tournament seeding, win percentage and tournament wins (overall) and changed the name on the jersey.

He was good. He just happened to be at a place that requires great.

I liked, and respect, Tubby. 03 thru 05 was a great run that just didn't get the hardware it deserved.

After 1998 tubby never defeated a team seeded above a six seed in the NCAA tournament . And he was at Kentucky ! Don't see how he can be considered even a " good " coach . I'd say average .

 

[brianpoe]

We didn't have DA . He missed the last half of the season and I'm bettin you agree with me that we would have EASILY won the championship if he could have played .

My original post mentions that point about DA...

But of course we would have, would have won it if Rick let him play that last game (not saying he should have).

My point was simply that this group wasn't that great on paper, no real stars.

In the end I don't believe Rick could have done much better with that group than 4 losses, Regular Season Conference Champs, SEC Tournament Champs, and NCAA Champs.

Tubby did a fine job that season.

 

[brianpoe]

After 1998 tubby never defeated a team seeded above a six seed in the NCAA tournament . And he was at Kentucky ! Don't see how he can be considered even a " good " coach . I'd say average .

I believe @kyboy1998 was making the case that anywhere else, Tubby's performance was good. Which in fact is very true.

You seem to be basing opinions on UK standards alone.

 

[whhs22]

I agree Tubby did a good job. Not calling a time out down the stretch against Duke once they ran out, kept coach K out of the game. I mean it was a no Brainer not to call time outs, but Tubby did a good job keeping coah K sidelined.

Just in my opinion , that teams basketball I.Q was off the charts. Just watching them play D was impressive. They switched and talked better then any UK team i had seen. Tubby did make a great game plan. Doubling down everytime the ball went low. My point is that was a special team. Just played the game really well. I give Tubby tons of credit. This is not a slam Tubby thread.

Just a side note. The officiating was so different. The one thing you noticed , was the players got exhausted. Seem to me the reason was because there were not so many stops with fouls , so guys had to play at such a higher level for longer stretches of time. Made for some great games. It was really fun looking back.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Stop crying to me magic.

I would take Mercer and DA over Shep and Evans - everyday...

People that say Tubby doesnt deserve that championship or that it was all Rick are being dumb.


Rick did fantastic for us, I was using a little hyperbole because the OP stated how dominant that team would have been under Rick.

That wasn't necessarily a great Pitino team, and if anybody remembers we were definitely not in the running for the title preseason.

Good ol' Tubby wasn't made for the UK job but he coached a great season and a great tournament and it really doesn't matter who recruited the kids or who they played for the year prior.

Yeah but Pitino did NOT have DA. If Pitino had his whole team UK 100% beats Arizona, a guard oriented team that annihilated 98 UK in Maui...and would have beat them again in the NCAA Tourney if they had met up. It is all about match ups and Arizona was a terrible one for both of those UK teams. That 97 UK team when healthy would have been one of the better UK champions in history, as I doubt they lose more than 2-3 games if DA does not get hurt.

 

[brianpoe]

Yeah but Pitino did NOT have DA. If Pitino had his whole team UK 100% beats Arizona, a guard oriented team that annihilated 98 UK in Maui...and would have beat them again in the NCAA Tourney if they had met up. It is all about match ups and Arizona was a terrible one for both of those UK teams. That 97 UK team when healthy would have been one of the better UK champions in history, as I doubt they lose more than 2-3 games if DA does not get hurt.

Read the entire thread #8...

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

To this day the 1998 Regional Final stands as my favorite UK game of all time.

 

[Roe07]

'98 team will always be my favorite! Those guys just knew how to win and never got rattled.

 

[TeoJ]

Tubby did somethings i thought helped. But he also did somethings that hurt. That was a special team. If Rick had them in my opinion no way we have to come back on late game heroics.

Rick had them in 97 and couldn't win it all.

 

[whhs22]

It was a pretty amazing team.i watched the entire games from the Duke game Stanford then Utah. YouTube has the games commercial and time out free. Pretty cool , just constant play.

Taking nothing away from Tubby. But that team was a well oiled machine. The Def they played was the best team D ive ever seen.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

People are confusing 2 points. Noone says Tubby shouldnt have been removed. But.....you cant use that to deny he did a remarkable job coaching that tournament run. Especially considering the caliber of teams we had to beat.

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Tubby won the championship, he did a great job vs Duke going small and attacking Wojo.

It takes a great group of players to win one, but Tubby did his part as well.

Tubby lost 4 games and won the title, Rick lost 5 games the previous season with the same team and, had Mercer and DA ( at least 1/2 the season) and didnt.


Tubby's later years shouldnt define the first one.

You can't compare one year to the previous. Thats like comparing this season and last. Every season the competition changes.

I agree with the OP. People want to give Tubby so much credit, but he didn't outcoach a soul. We had Shep, Turner, Nazr, Magloire, Padgett and Edwards.... those guys could win a title in todays game.

As much as it pains me to say it, Rick is 10 times the coach as Tubby. He wouldve gotten a lot more out of those kids. Hell, we're talking about a coach that should've won the title with Pelphrey, Farmer, Woods, and Feldhaus.

 

[brianpoe]

You can't compare one year to the previous. Thats like comparing this season and last. Every season the competition changes.

I agree with the OP. People want to give Tubby so much credit, but he didn't outcoach a soul. We had Shep, Turner, Nazr, Magloire, Padgett and Edwards.... those guys could win a title in todays game.

As much as it pains me to say it, Rick is 10 times the coach as Tubby. He wouldve gotten a lot more out of those kids. Hell, we're talking about a coach that should've won the title with Pelphrey, Farmer, Woods, and Feldhaus.

Tubby outcoached others in 98, you either missed it or refuse to believe reality.

Shep, Naz, Mags, Padg and Edwards were not as great as you remember them being prior to the season.


Their previous season stats:

Shep didnt play
Nazr 8pts
Padget 9pts
Magloire 4pts
Edwards 8pts
Turner 6pts


Yes they could win it today. So could 96, 97, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015...

This revisionist history we have on here is crazy. I was at many of these games. The team and the coach did very well.

Has nothing to do with how much better Rick is.

 

[CELTICAT]

There's no denying however, that not one player on that team was his. Some people don't like it, but it is what it is. The fact that he's never seen another final four puts the nail in the coffin. We were totally justified in his removal.

Saul Smith played 14 minutes against Stanford, and 7 minutes against Utah. I could be wrong, but I think he was brought here by Tubby, and not Rick. I'll hang up and listen.

 

[BoulderCat]

Was the officials. Huge difference that made for some great games.

Also Tubby got lucky. That had to be one of the highest I.Q teams ive ever seen.

Also Mohammed was that good. He got winded quit. But Tubby had Maglore to step in.

Todays game Evans would be a top pick. That guy left handed just knew the game. No question in my mind those kids won Tubby a NC. Couple times im watching i was questioning why Tubby had who he had in. Luckly those young men wanted it. But not so sure we had . To be the come back cats . With those guys under Pitino we would of been the blow out cats.

Just my opinion. My opinion should not be with out the proper supervision and is for professionals.

I'm not a professional in this area, nor a supervisor, but I'll certainly give you my opinion. Which is this post seems like just another backhanded slap at Tubby. After 9 years aren't you tired of beating that dead horse?

 

[Beezermc]

After 1998 tubby never defeated a team seeded above a six seed in the NCAA tournament . And he was at Kentucky ! Don't see how he can be considered even a " good " coach . I'd say average .

This isn't true.

 

[preacherfan]

This isn't true.

You are correct. UK beat Wisconsin in 03 and they were a 5 seed. That is the highest seed I could find us beating after the title year.

 

[Roe07]

You can't compare one year to the previous. Thats like comparing this season and last. Every season the competition changes.

I agree with the OP. People want to give Tubby so much credit, but he didn't outcoach a soul. We had Shep, Turner, Nazr, Magloire, Padgett and Edwards.... those guys could win a title in todays game.

As much as it pains me to say it, Rick is 10 times the coach as Tubby. He wouldve gotten a lot more out of those kids. Hell, we're talking about a coach that should've won the title with Pelphrey, Farmer, Woods, and Feldhaus.

What more could Pitino have done with a team that finished 35-4 and won the National Title??

 

[yoshukai]

You are correct. UK beat Wisconsin in 03 and they were a 5 seed. That is the highest seed I could find us beating after the title year.

You are correct . Oversight on my part . He beat 1 team seeded above a six seed . Outstanding .

 

[Louis_Skunt]

What more could Pitino have done with a team that finished 35-4 and won the National Title??

We got lucky winning it all in 98. Multiple teams were better, we got lucky. I have a feeling if Pitino stayed we would've had better freshman, and wouldn't be the underdog every game.

 

[whhs22]

I'm not a professional in this area, nor a supervisor, but I'll certainly give you my opinion. Which is this post seems like just another backhanded slap at Tubby. After 9 years aren't you tired of beating that dead horse?

Your wrong. Read all my posts. I thought not calling time outs down the stretch when coach K was out was a great coaching move on Tubbys part. At The same time Duke had a SN point guard in Wojo, you would of thought he could of calmed Duke down. But Turner took Wojo out of the game. Had we not had solid players that made plays Tubby would of had to call time outs. So works both ways.

But in no way am I taking anything from Tubby. What I am doing is pointing out just how good that team was.

 

[whhs22]

Saul Smith played 14 minutes against Stanford, and 7 minutes against Utah. I could be wrong, but I think he was brought here by Tubby, and not Rick. I'll hang up and listen.

Sorry but not so sure Saul is a great example. Saul gave Turner a rest. But not so sure we didnt have other guys who could of ran the point while Turner got a rest. I was never a Saul fan. And believe Tubby played him way to much the following year while sitting Turner. Do we want to talk about the Mich St game were Tubby got out coached and we lost a trip to the Final 4?

I also believe Tubby did not go after other PGs as hard as he should have during Sauls career. But just my opinion.

 

[Roe07]

We got lucky winning it all in 98. Multiple teams were better, we got lucky. I have a feeling if Pitino stayed we would've had better freshman, and wouldn't be the underdog every game.

Ok that argument is idiotic! That team was a #2 seed at 29-4 going into the tournament and the only game we were an underdog in was the Duke game.

 

[Chuckinden]

It very easy to look back after the fact and find issues. Coaches that win championships coached well at that time.

I've always felt that Tubby winning that title in his first year was the worst thing that could have happened to him. He didn't have anywhere to go but down after that season and that's what he did. I believe he thought he could win titles at UK playing any style he wanted to.