Tatum going to SLU would be incredibly beneficial to Kentucky's cause. I don't think it will happen, however. In a perfect world, Giles goes to NC State and Tatum to Duke. I think both end up playing for the moldy one, however.
jayson Tatum down to 2
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Tatum going to SLU would be incredibly beneficial to Kentucky's cause. I don't think it will happen, however. In a perfect world, Giles goes to NC State and Tatum to Duke. I think both end up playing for the moldy one, however.
I think right now we look to be in good shape with Simmons and Langford. If Ulis comes back, our backcourt will be set with those three. Ulis is a pure PG, Simmons is a big combo guard, and Langford is a pure wing scorer. Add in a guy like Bridges or Isaac to play the 3/4 with Lee/Wynyard at the 5. Another super quick team.
Another big would be nice, but this class is a little thin on bigs.
Another big would be nice, but this class is a little thin on bigs.
Langford is a kid UK was looking at more if he'd reclassify. Since they were able to get in with Murray--notice how the talk of Langford to UK has died down a bit.
To respond to your question Wcc31, I like Fox more then Simmons--but I like both better then Derryck Thornton who reclassified. Know many disagree-and UK offered Thornton prior to these two but Fox is suited to play the style of ball that UK excels with-and Simmons is too. Just like Fox's defensive ability on the ball. He took Dennis Smith on--while Smith wouldn't guard him. Fox and Jarred Vanderbilt are must watch guys if you get chance to see EYBL--they get out and go.
For the poster who mentioned Isaac as a PF-don't see that at all. Ideal SF. Power Forward I'd put with the type of style/group Cal/UK seem to flourish best with is Bam Adebayo. Now it's recruiting and you can't get everyone or the handlers have more invested in pushing their agendas--but I like UK with mobile team and players who can do several things without the ball--not just when they have it. Also, imo the more mobile team you present, the more dominant on glass and out of area rebs and versatility to turn defense into easy offense.
To respond to your question Wcc31, I like Fox more then Simmons--but I like both better then Derryck Thornton who reclassified. Know many disagree-and UK offered Thornton prior to these two but Fox is suited to play the style of ball that UK excels with-and Simmons is too. Just like Fox's defensive ability on the ball. He took Dennis Smith on--while Smith wouldn't guard him. Fox and Jarred Vanderbilt are must watch guys if you get chance to see EYBL--they get out and go.
For the poster who mentioned Isaac as a PF-don't see that at all. Ideal SF. Power Forward I'd put with the type of style/group Cal/UK seem to flourish best with is Bam Adebayo. Now it's recruiting and you can't get everyone or the handlers have more invested in pushing their agendas--but I like UK with mobile team and players who can do several things without the ball--not just when they have it. Also, imo the more mobile team you present, the more dominant on glass and out of area rebs and versatility to turn defense into easy offense.
I don't see how anyone could put Iowa State, who lost their coach and lost in the first round, ahead of Duke...
Duke lost their senior captain and three first round draft picks. Iowa State has a lot more consistency coming back, Duke has the possibility to be better at the end of the year but Iowa State should be better at least at the beginning.
Who knows- this year is wide open, BUT I think this Duke squad is far more like '12 and '14 than '15. I don't see a good defensive squad. I don't see much meat and physicality either.
Iowa State doesn't have great talent. They have a good system. However, they also just lost their coach and lost in the first round. Bring back a lot in college doesn't always mean you're the best the next year. Virginia is somewhat the same. Good team when they didn't have Anderson, not great. He's gone. They play a specific system.
Give me UNC, Maryland, Kentucky, Duke and Kansas, just based on talent alone ahead of either of those. Inexperience or not.
You're probably right, but that won't stop Virginia and Iowa State from being ranked highly pre season. Which is what the original discussion was about.
As will Duke, having the "defending champion" label. Look at UK's 2012-13 preseason ranking based on recruiting class alone. Nothing returning at all. Duke at least returns 2 starters, 4 of their top 8 MPG guys and brings in 4 elite prospects and a graduate transfer.
You forgot the second best wing in the nation, Jonathan Isaac.
If cal gets a guard class of
Simmons
Monk
Issac.
That's better than dukes guard class
Winning another title has Duke roaring again. Coach K can coach but I dislike him a lot.Duke.
Coach k has got his mojo back.
Coach K got a boost from changing his staff up--the departure of Collins and Wojo was a benefit for him as Scheyer and Capel have been much better and worked harder maintaining contact/pushing for right fits. At schools like UK/Duke--you can get involved with so many elite guys--it's more about picking fit--and it's one reason I think UK "losing" Slice will benefit UK as well. See so many blast Barbee--but he's not recruiting or acting as HC--he's an assistant and a damn good recruiter. As long as you have a guy who is willing to grind and having played for Cal--knows type of guys he likes--that is most important.
Bridges is one I'd pass on if I'm UK. King to Louisville imo. Takeover guys are tight with former staff member of theirs--Kenny Johnson. They send kids with him--look at his stint at IU. Also notice Isaac had Louisville/UK offers same day and Louisville didn't make final cut--and King had visited UL recently. King is a nice player but Isaac is better.
Watch UK with Rawle Alkins too. Still hoping they check on DeAaron Fox as I think he fits the mold of a UK/Cal pg. As a viewer--like seeing great teams and that kid leading a break with is world class speed and size for a PG (Simmons is taller I know) but 6'4 Fox isn't far behind and is much faster/better defender.
Bridges is one I'd pass on if I'm UK. King to Louisville imo. Takeover guys are tight with former staff member of theirs--Kenny Johnson. They send kids with him--look at his stint at IU. Also notice Isaac had Louisville/UK offers same day and Louisville didn't make final cut--and King had visited UL recently. King is a nice player but Isaac is better.
Watch UK with Rawle Alkins too. Still hoping they check on DeAaron Fox as I think he fits the mold of a UK/Cal pg. As a viewer--like seeing great teams and that kid leading a break with is world class speed and size for a PG (Simmons is taller I know) but 6'4 Fox isn't far behind and is much faster/better defender.
Duke will be fine, but they are going to have to deal with same issues that have started to bite UK when you go with a OAD system.
With the signing of Thornton, who doesn't necessarily project as a certain OAD, Smith Jr. now looks to be a NCState lean. If Smith ends up at State, does he pull Giles with him? If UNC gets the NCAA issues behind them and have no post-season ban next year, I think they are going to be all over Giles. They have usually beaten Duke for these in-state kids.
Finally, Tatum is a great player, but he actually appears to have slipped a little in the latest rankings. You're starting to see that more with these kids who develop early and rise to the top and then peak a little - Malik Newman is a good example. Isaac may turn out to be the better long-term prospect and I think we have a great shot at him.
With the signing of Thornton, who doesn't necessarily project as a certain OAD, Smith Jr. now looks to be a NCState lean. If Smith ends up at State, does he pull Giles with him? If UNC gets the NCAA issues behind them and have no post-season ban next year, I think they are going to be all over Giles. They have usually beaten Duke for these in-state kids.
Finally, Tatum is a great player, but he actually appears to have slipped a little in the latest rankings. You're starting to see that more with these kids who develop early and rise to the top and then peak a little - Malik Newman is a good example. Isaac may turn out to be the better long-term prospect and I think we have a great shot at him.
There is total confidence about both Tatum and Giles coming from the couple of guys on the Duke forums who are a) known to have a few lower-level connections in the basketball department and b) who are generally mature, reserved guys (on the Internet, I know, shocking!) Obviously everything should be taken with a grain of salt, but...
This is a great point. Winning big the way Calipari has with freshmen masks the fact that it isn't easy. We've had bumps along the way and Cal's the best in the business at turning new teams on a dime ('11 conference season, '13, '14 until post-season, etc). It's not just getting the most talented young'uns, it's also getting the right pieces and gelling them.
Duke has had major talent EVERY YEAR for 30 years. People acting like this is something new crack me up.
Well, there was a period that Duke wasn't getting THIS type of talent... the mid-2000s or so... you had guys like Greg Paulus and Josh McRoberts and Chris Burgess, who were top ranked recruits but not really the big-time players everyone expected. There weren't a lot of big time, NBA-looking superstars at Duke for a few years.
But since Irving, Duke has had a pretty crazy group of top OAD guys come through, many of whom look pretty NBA ready... Irving, Rivers, Parker, Okafor & Jones... a lot of Top 2, Top 3 talents. So while it isn't NEW, it is better than it was for a little while.
Well we're not running a "1-and-done system" buddy, so it's ok. This year was the exception to the rule for us. We're not going to start having multiple 1-and-done players every year. We don't want that to happen. That's not how you sustain a basketball program. It just happened to happen this year because everything came together and we won the whole thing. If we had lost in the Sweet 16 instead of winning it all, I don't think Tyus Jones goes pro. Him winning Final Four MOP really boosted his stock at the last second. Tyus' stock was in the late 20s going into the NCAA tourney.
You act like it's a bad thing or something that Duke might have a sophomore Derryck Thornton at PG. That would be a great thing. I'd take a sophomore Thornton all day long, even if Dennis Smith goes elsewhere. What we were actually planning on was having a sophomore Tyus Jones and then bringing in either Thornton or Smith from 2016, but we had to adjust on the fly when Tyus balled out and was unexpectedly a 1-and-done.
Do you really think Coach K tells recruits that guys will be 1-and-done when he doesn't know whether or not they will be? With some guys it's obvious, with other guys it's not. I can tell you for a fact that Coach K is NOT telling Dennis Smith that Derryck Thornton will for sure not be at Duke if/when Smith comes to Duke, so it's not an "issue" if Thornton isn't 1-and-done. K is telling Dennis Smith that if you come to Duke we may still have Thornton, so y'all could play alongside each other. Or if Thornton is gone then you're our PG. Then he leaves it up to Smith to make the decision. Do you honestly think K is telling recruits that Thornton and Ingram are FOR SURE gone? He didn't even tell Brandon Ingram that Winslow was for sure going to be gone. Okafor was the only recruit that K openly acknowledged as being a for sure 1-and-done before this season. That's how you do it. Okafor was an obvious case so you can assume, but Winslow and Tyus weren't as obvious.
How dumb do you have to be to think that these coaches are telling all of these recruits that they KNOW what guys will be 1-and-done when, unless you're talking about a truly special talent, you won't know until after the season has played out? Newsflash to you UK folks if you haven't figured it out by now... but just because a guy is ranked in the top 10 or top 15 of his class, doesn't necessarily mean he's automatically a 1-and-done candidate. If you tell that to every top 15 player, you're doing them a disservice even if you think it's in their "best interest" to tell them that yeah they can be 1-and-done regardless of how good they actually are. The Harrison twins were top 15 players and it was in their best interest to stay in school for multiple years. It just depends on each individual case.
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OAD not a thing for Duke?? Give me a freaking break. So I guess that means Duke isn't recruiting Tatum, Giles, Smith this year, right?
And for 2017 - Wendell Carter, Trae Young, and Jarred Vanderbilt are already talking about being a package deal - guess who their leader is?
2015 was no fluke, it's how K is going to recruit from now on out because he's realized Calipari is right - the talent level is college basketball is so decimated that the best way to have a great team is get as many top freshmen as possible.
Here's the thing though - I predict that magically all the complaining and outrage over OAD players is going to stop next year because Duke is doing it.
And for 2017 - Wendell Carter, Trae Young, and Jarred Vanderbilt are already talking about being a package deal - guess who their leader is?
2015 was no fluke, it's how K is going to recruit from now on out because he's realized Calipari is right - the talent level is college basketball is so decimated that the best way to have a great team is get as many top freshmen as possible.
Here's the thing though - I predict that magically all the complaining and outrage over OAD players is going to stop next year because Duke is doing it.
I think the only difference between Cal and K is that Cal tells his recruits that if they want to go after the first year, he will do everything he can to get them there, while K tells them that he will do everything to get them there but doesn't emphasize how long that will take.
It's basically the same thing and most of the coaches out there give the same pitch to the 5-star guys.
I doubt anyone is telling Giles and Tatum that they will expect them to stay four years. If a coach does, he is stupid or delusional or a little of both.
It's basically the same thing and most of the coaches out there give the same pitch to the 5-star guys.
I doubt anyone is telling Giles and Tatum that they will expect them to stay four years. If a coach does, he is stupid or delusional or a little of both.
Such a profound post. We UK fans are not familiar with how the OAD system works. Thanks for educating us on recruiting as well.
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LOL at Duke not being a OAD program.
Coach K is ruining college basketball.
Welcome to the dark side....buddy!
Coach K is ruining college basketball.
Welcome to the dark side....buddy!
Well,, that answers that question.. Duke fans are about as delusional as UNC fans..
Regarding the Original thread topic. I think he's a Duke lean but I also think the home school has more pull than people think so nothing is guaranteed.
There are multiple reasons why K is enjoying a recruiting resurgence. The main reason is his additional access to these HS players as USA basketball coach. Since he began using that to his advantage, hes been a recruiting monster.
For example, Okafor and Jones were both all but committed to Duke way before they announced. All based on the additional access K enjoyed.
May as well get used to this until the NCAA or USA basketball steps in to limit his contact.
For example, Okafor and Jones were both all but committed to Duke way before they announced. All based on the additional access K enjoyed.
May as well get used to this until the NCAA or USA basketball steps in to limit his contact.
The NCAA, not ensuring that Duke and Krzyzewski have every advantage conceivable.
Yeah - it's no coincidence that Carter and Young are playing together on one of the USA teams and all of a sudden these two kids from completely different parts of the country are talking about playing together and specifically talking about playing together at Duke.
Now that K is all in with the OAD players, there's no doubt his USA team affiliation is a huge advantage for him.
After he strings together 3-4 top recruiting classes in a row and 2-3 championships, maybe someone other than Cal will have the balls to complain about that advantage.
Now that K is all in with the OAD players, there's no doubt his USA team affiliation is a huge advantage for him.
After he strings together 3-4 top recruiting classes in a row and 2-3 championships, maybe someone other than Cal will have the balls to complain about that advantage.
Hasn't K openly said he recruits one and dones? I'm at least 99.7% positive that he did. I mean, before the season started, he said Jahlil Okafor was OAD, so the silly dookie needs to quit with that "Duke isn't a one and done program" nonsense.
I agree with this, Coach K having the USA access is big, but I'm just curious why it hasn't been that advantageous for Jim Boeheim or Billy Donovan...both also have this access and Donovan was the head coach of the Under 18 team.
I'm not saying this doesn't help Coach K, but it hasn't helped Boeheim or Donovan the same way.
I think thats a fair question, and one ive wondered myself. Maybe K approaches it differently? Maybe hes held in higher regard because hes the head coach? Maybe the pros on the team help him talk to the kids? Or maybe K being around the pros just give him more credibility?
Or maybe all of the above? Im not sure. But its definitely THE factor in his recruiting resurgence imo.
I've seen a lot of people say this, and I don't think it's the same thing.
It helped Cal get 1 kid 1 time. How many more kids will Cal get from the Dominican Republic?
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