Izzo Is MSU's Best Coach Ever; At UK He'd Be Under Extreme Duress To Win 2nd Title Or Leave

[dlh331]

Would UK fans be okay with Izzo's resume?

20 years and 199 losses...10 loss Tommy anyone??

4 Big 10 Tourney titles since 1998

7 Big 10 Reg Season Titles in 20 years

4 1st round NCAAT losses; 1 2nd round loss

of his 6 Final 4 losses, 4 were blowouts and another loss was to Butler

15 years and counting since his single NCAA title

Mediocre recruiting

Coma-inducing style of play

Darryl

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

tubby like/tubby lite

but i hear he's a helluva guy

 

[Jkwo]

He's great and a first ballot HOFer, but you're right, he'd have the fanbase awfully itchy and divided over here with that same performance.

 

[Fadhi]

Izzo is not Tubby lite. He is Tubby on steroids. But he would not be ok at UK since his teams are usually always clipped in the final four by ultra athletic opponents.
Pitino was perfect, Cal is perfect.
Izzo is perfect for any non-basketball school.
However, If Calipari were to leave Kentucky today, you arent getting anyone better than Izzo as a replacement.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

WHAT? Calling him Tubby light is a major insult. Tubby couldn't even reach the Final Four with the 2003 team, let alone with his own players.

Izzo= Builds players over four years to
Succeed as a team of seniors

Cal= Gets super talented freshmen to
Win as a team despite youth and inexperience

Cal and Izzo are opposite sides of the spectrum. So if we had Izzo instead of Cal I'd be happy as I wouldn't know what I'm missing. If Izzo had to follow up Cal, obviously I'd eventually be frustrated. Everyone is going to have a hard time following up Cal.

 

[dcsparty]

Would UK fans be okay with Izzo's resume?

20 years and 199 losses...10 loss Tommy anyone??

4 Big 10 Tourney titles since 1998

7 Big 10 Reg Season Titles in 20 years

4 1st round NCAAT losses; 1 2nd round loss

of his 6 Final 4 losses, 4 were blowouts and another loss was to Butler

15 years and counting since his single NCAA title

Mediocre recruiting

Coma-inducing style of play

Darryl

Just think what Izzo could do if he had the talent UK gets.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I would be fine with it, personally. You can't win a title every year.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Just think what Izzo could do if he had the talent UK gets.

Maybe not as well. Replacing your top four or five guys every year is not as easy as looks. Having to mold a team from nearly scratch every year is its own challenge.

Every system has its deficiencies.

 

[Fadhi]

Just think what Izzo could do if he had the talent UK gets.

I dont see that as a valid scenerio since Izzo's whole philosophy does not cater to the egos of one and dones.
That is the whole reason why he does not get them in the first place. I dont think Izzo woukd particularly do well with Cals roster

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Izzo is not Tubby lite. He is Tubby on steroids. But he would not be ok at UK since his teams are usually always clipped in the final four by ultra athletic opponents.
Pitino was perfect, Cal is perfect.
Izzo is perfect for any non-basketball school.
However, If Calipari were to leave Kentucky today, you arent getting anyone better than Izzo as a replacement.

you're right. i was just rattling the tubby chain to get the board stirred up. nothing like it for generating 10-12 page threads

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

^ except for the part about not getting anyone better than izzo to replace Cal. I'll reserve judgement on that until the time comes. you said yourself, "perfect for any non-basketball school"...

 

[uk78]

Yes, when Miles Bridges reads this post he will come to UK.

 

[Dakota25]

I'm neutral on it. I don't follow teams other than UK all that closely but the big ten in general hasn't performed well in the tournament. Michigan state 2000 is the last title for the conference. Really for the last decade the best conferences in basketball have been the old big east and the acc. UK and Florida have represented well too.

All in all Izzo seems to be past his prime along with pitino.

 

[CousinofSparty]

PAst his prime? LOL I will take that.
This class, without Bridges, is a top 10 class...could be his best ever.
Recruiting was down int he midwest for a few years but is on the upswing.

Took a team without any starpower to the F4.
Lost the previous yr to the winner primarily because his PG was playing with a bum wrist.

Yeah, the guy is past his prime...

 

[lacocat]

Izzo is 4 years older than Cal, he'll retire first so will not be replacing Cal at UK.

 

[preacherfan]

PAst his prime? LOL I will take that.
This class, without Bridges, is a top 10 class...could be his best ever.
Recruiting was down int he midwest for a few years but is on the upswing.

Took a team without any starpower to the F4.
Lost the previous yr to the winner primarily because his PG was playing with a bum wrist.

Yeah, the guy is past his prime...

That was weak argument for an EXCELLENT coach. I would argue that Izzo is not past his prime due to his NCAA record(from 2015 going back): Final Four, Elite 8, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Round of 64, Final Four, Runner up.

Almost ANY program in the country would be thrilled with those results. Heck, IU would change the name of the university to Izzo U.

 

[dlh331]

Izzo's W/L percentage of 71.3% would be 5th all-time at UK

That was weak argument for an EXCELLENT coach. I would argue that Izzo is not past his prime due to his NCAA record(from 2015 going back): Final Four, Elite 8, Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Round of 64, Final Four, Runner up.

Almost ANY program in the country would be thrilled with those results. Heck, IU would change the name of the university to Izzo U.

Back to my original point; would UK fans be happy with Izzo's TOTAL resume?

Darryl

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Back to my original point; would UK fans be happy with Izzo's TOTAL resume?

Darryl[/QUOTE]

No.

 

[uky8unc5]

Izzo's W/L percentage of 71.3% would be 5th all-time at UK

Back to my original point; would UK fans be happy with Izzo's TOTAL resume?
Darryl

Your question is moot, because if IZZO (we're talking about Izzo's amazing ability, not his resume) would have won more than one title if he had UK's muscle behind him. And I can't evaluate him any other way than that. Preacher has it right for sure.

 

[Smashcat]

Izzo is a great fit at MSU. Cal the same at UK.

 

[Supafuzz75]

Izzo's W/L percentage of 71.3% would be 5th all-time at UK


Back to my original point; would UK fans be happy with Izzo's TOTAL resume?

Darryl

Absolutely not.. He's a good fit for msu but not for UK.. We demand way better than what he can do.. He's better than Tubby,, but not by a lot..

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Of course not.

But if Izzo were at UK instead of MSU, he'd have accomplished A LOT more by now.

 

[CousinofSparty]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

 

[Supafuzz75]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

He'd recruit somewhat better at UK but he'd not be anywhere Cal good.. If recruits like a certain coach,, they'd go where he's at.. Izzo would not have gotten the classes Cal has gotten here.. A great recruiting coach sells whatever school they're at.. So,, no I don't see him having 3 titles here..

 

[Tampa_cat54]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

He wouldn't recruit NEARLY as well as cal has.

But yes, given how much more UK has to offer compared to MSU, he'd certainly be more successful than he's been.

 

[mj2k10]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

This is just silly (which, given your past week here, isn't surprising).

You're falling into the same stupid area of thinking that so many other fans do, including some who are UK fans: that it's somehow more noble to win with less talent than it is to win (more) with great talent.

The greatest. most successful coaches in basketball history all had great talent. Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, and Gregg Popovich in the pros, Rupp, Wooden, Krzyewski in college. You can surround it with as many niceties and distinctions as you want, but at the end of the day, the ultimate goal of any coach is to win more than everyone else. The better the tools a coach has, the better results he's likely to get. Nick Saban and Urban Meyer don't recruit 3 star players, and the top college basketbal coaches shouldn't be expected to either.

Also, the assumption that Izzo would A: recruit so much better, and B: thus get a lot better results, were he at UK, was proven fundamentally wrong by Tubby's decade-long tenure. As others have said, Izzo is Tubby + (basically, what Tubby aspired to be but couldn't reach), but still, after a long enough period, a coach pretty much is what he is, and the surroundings don't change that all that much.

 

[bthaunert]

It's such a hypothetical because he would have better access to big time recruits just being at UK. Take Cal prior to UK for example. Would UK fans be happy with his record over 17 seasons at UMass and Memphis at UK? Those were obviously much larger building jobs, but Memphis prior to Cal had been to as many Final Fours as MSU prior to Izzo. If you put Izzo at UK, he would bring in more talent. As much talent as Cal? Obviously not, but more takent than he has gotten at Michigan State. I think Izzo would probably have been successful here and fans would have been happy with him, just like 99.9% are happy with Cal.

 

[mj2k10]

It's such a hypothetical because he would have better access to big time recruits just being at UK. Take Cal prior to UK for example. Would UK fans be happy with his record over 17 seasons at UMass and Memphis at UK? Those were obviously much larger building jobs, but Memphis prior to Cal had been to as many Final Fours as MSU prior to Izzo. If you put Izzo at UK, he would bring in more talent. As much talent as Cal? Obviously not, but more takent than he has gotten at Michigan State. I think Izzo would probably have been successful here and fans would have been happy with him, just like 99.9% are happy with Cal.

Remember this about Cal at Memphis- his last recruiting class there was going to include Cousins, Xavier Henry, John Wall, and possibly Eric Bledsoe. He was also already in strong with Brandon Knight for the next year, and MKG was a lock to play for him no matter where he was.

In other words, he was building Memphis towards what he's ended up with at UK. UK offered Cal better everything, which has certainly made it easier for him, and had he stayed at Memphis, it wouldn't have looked exactly like what he's had at UK, but Cal was striving towards a status that he's now reached. That's different than someone like Izzo, who has chosen Michigan State as his destination job, and developed a philosophy that he's comfortable with.

Cal brought a philosophy to UK that fits UK perfectly. We don't know how comfortable Izzo would be at UK, and to what extent he would adjust his overall outlook. You can say he would gain some huge advantages, and maybe he would, but you could have said the same thing about Tubby Smith, and Tubby basically ended up rejecting most of the potential advantages at UK in favor of something he was more comfortable with.

How many times has a coach with a reputation for winning with less talent suddenly hit some kind of recruiting jackpot, only for it to not work out in the end? It's really not that uncommon

 

[Jkwo]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

Izzo would have 4 titles in 6 years at UK?

So in other words, you're saying he's the best coach to ever live, because Cal is already on the best initial 6 year run at a new school in the history of CBB - what you're talking about blows away anything in history - nobody else would be in the same universe - only the middle of Wooden's run can compare to that, and that's after he got rolling. And had a Sam Gilbert payroll.

Yes, he'd recruit better, but not insanely better. Coming up from a sub-elite school like Michigan State, he'd pull maybe an extra 5 star every other year, at most.

 

[Federal Cat]

He would get better recruits just by being here at Kentucky but I don't think he is the recruiter that Cal is, don't think he likes the spotlight like Cal does either

 

[preacherfan]

Izzo's W/L percentage of 71.3% would be 5th all-time at UK


Back to my original point; would UK fans be happy with Izzo's TOTAL resume?

Darryl

As I said, "Almost any" program would be thrilled with his results. UK isn't "almost any."

But, having said that, I was in the middle of the Tubby wars when a number of UK fans were happy with his results and were unhappy with those of us who weren't. Even during his last two years we had a highly significant number of posters claiming that it was only a vocal minority that wasn't happy with Tubby's results.

 

[EvilMD]

In my mind it would be like Tubby's run from 2003-2005 on a continuous loop, only we make the Final Four one of those years and lose to North Carolina or Duke.

 

[jarms24]

I've enjoyed MSU's message board population over the years, and I actually really like Tom Izzo. Having said that, this @CousinofSparty dude is probably the biggest homer I've ever seen, and that's saying a lot when you're in contention with the likes of Kerry Rhodes and the KU poster who writes novels on here. I seriously hope the whole '4 titles in 6 years' comment was a joke. If not, that's some ban worthy content, imo.

 

[Orange Soda King]

He would probably bring in more top recruits if he coached at UK. It's not like he doesn't go after the top guys, he does.

 

[kyjeff1]

It's such a hypothetical because he would have better access to big time recruits just being at UK. Take Cal prior to UK for example. Would UK fans be happy with his record over 17 seasons at UMass and Memphis at UK? Those were obviously much larger building jobs, but Memphis prior to Cal had been to as many Final Fours as MSU prior to Izzo. If you put Izzo at UK, he would bring in more talent. As much talent as Cal? Obviously not, but more takent than he has gotten at Michigan State. I think Izzo would probably have been successful here and fans would have been happy with him, just like 99.9% are happy with Cal.

This is wrong. Izzo would not get better talent than what he already gets and here's why. He doesn't recruit those kids, he recruits 4 year players. He went after James Young for about 4 minutes and that's because JY lived an hour away from East Lansing. Plus, 5* players donht typically want to play his style so the pass on MSU.
Izzo also doesn't recruit with a long arm, he usually just pulls from the Midwest, he doesn't put in the recruiting effort that Cal puts in.
My last point is this. Most coaches don't want any part of the system that Cal (and now Self and K) have. If you bring Izzo in here and give him a jet and a gazzilion dollar recruiting budget he's still going to bring in the same class of player. He wants 4 year guys.
We would not be happy with him here, too many losses and his style of play is slower. We went down that road already.

 

[kyjeff1]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

How so? You would figure a true MSU fan would know Tom Izzo's style better. I lived and worked amongst MSU fans for the last 15 years. That guy scoffs at what Calipari, Self and K are doing. He doesn't want anything to do with 5* guys. It takes a certain coach to deal with those egos and Izzo is not one of those guys.
So, if he were to take over the reigns in Lexington he would be bringing in the same players he currently brings to MSU. If he wanted to bring in studs like UK does he could easily do that at MSU because MSU is a brand now (because of Tom) …. But he doesn't.
So in reality he would do no different at UK than he already does at MSU. And be careful with your response, I'm much closer to the program and Izzo than you will ever believe.

 

[kyjeff1]

PAst his prime? LOL I will take that.
This class, without Bridges, is a top 10 class...could be his best ever.
Recruiting was down int he midwest for a few years but is on the upswing.

Took a team without any starpower to the F4.
Lost the previous yr to the winner primarily because his PG was playing with a bum wrist.

Yeah, the guy is past his prime...

I agree eith you, Izzo is definitely not past his prime. He's a GREAT coach and an even better individual.
But don't brag too much about last years final four appearance. I have never seen such a weak bracket in my life. It started out weak and fell apart on the very first weekend. Virginia was great for most of the year until Justin Anderson hurt his hand, they got that 2 seed based on what they did prior to his injury.
Nova got a 1 seed in that bracket. Seriously? What a joke THAT was.
Heck, you got to play an okay Louisville team in the E8 to get to the FF.
It was still a really good accomplishment but pump the brakes on how great the coaching job was, I don't know of any other coaches that could do what he seems to do every year but the stars aligned for that ff to happen last year.

 

[michaeluk26]

How so? You would figure a true MSU fan would know Tom Izzo's style better. I lived and worked amongst MSU fans for the last 15 years. That guy scoffs at what Calipari, Self and K are doing. He doesn't want anything to do with 5* guys. It takes a certain coach to deal with those egos and Izzo is not one of those guys.
So, if he were to take over the reigns in Lexington he would be bringing in the same players he currently brings to MSU. If he wanted to bring in studs like UK does he could easily do that at MSU because MSU is a brand now (because of Tom) …. But he doesn't.
So in reality he would do no different at UK than he already does at MSU. And be careful with your response, I'm much closer to the program and Izzo than you will ever believe.

I have to disagree about Izzo not going after one and dones. He has been going after quite a few the last few years.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

If Izzo were at UK for length of time Cal has been there, he would have 3 more titles.
Look what he has done with 1/2 the talent.
Plus, recruiting would be so easy.

Book it

No, he would not have gotten the recruits that Cal went after.

 

[Neue Regel]

If Izzo isn't going after potential OAD kids as a couple of posts said then whey did he recruit Okafor and Jones? not to mention some of Cal's guys.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp.../03/duke-kentucky-duos-izzo-recruit/25271459/

Article Excerpt:

But one glance around the rosters of the other teams at Lucas Oil Stadium tonight could have many Spartans playing a game of "What if?"

What if Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones decided to team up and play for the Spartans? What if the same thing happened with Kentucky's Tyler Ulis and Devin Booker. These aren't far-fetched theories.

Tom Izzo was in the thick of the recruiting battle for all four, and at times, it seemed like Michigan State was in good shape with all of them. Izzo began recruiting Okafor and Jones as far back as ninth grade and built a strong relationship with both.
That was on the minds of Duke's standout freshmen on Friday as they prepared to face Michigan State in tonight's Final Four.

"I love coach Izzo to death," Okafor said. "I remember having in-home visits with him, and my family really bonded. Michigan State was a school that I really wanted to go to. That's what made the process so hard, having to choose one school over another."
Okafor said his earliest memories of college were of Duke while Jones said he always like the point guards the Blue Devils had, like Jay Williams and Bobby Hurley. But he, too, had nothing but respect for Izzo.

"Just the relationship I had with coach Izzo, how he reached out to myself and my family and took us on an official visit up there on campus," Jones said. "They have a great program with a lot tradition, and he's done a great job with that school and with their program and so I have a lot of respect for him."

Over in the Kentucky locker room, the same questions were being posed to Booker and Ulis. Izzo went after both hard and each had Michigan State high on his list before picking Kentucky.
Ulis seemed the most likely to become a Spartan considering his cousin is Travis Walton, a member of the 2009 team that reached the national title game. But Kentucky entered the recruiting late and landed Ulis. Not long after that, Michigan State got a commitment from Lourawls "Tum Tum" Nairn.

"I've grown up around Izzo with my cousin playing for them," Ulis said. "I really like him as a coach, and I just felt like I was probably going to go there if Kentucky didn't come in. I was always around them and stuff like that, but when Kentucky came in, I just felt like that was best for me and my family."