Is age the disconnect between Cal supporters and Program defenders?

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

I’m 63. Been following the Cats since 1964. Feel like we should change the name to University of NBA to be more reflective of reality. I cringe at the inability of supposed high profile players that can’t seem to shoot, pass, dribble or guard a folding chair when the season starts. Yes, the level of play usually improves as the season progresses. But the having to hold my nose routine is getting old.

On top of this, the lack of fundamentals is appalling. No one on this team knows how to block out or stay in front on defense and our players continuously give up the baseline. We have a PG that picks up his dribble when challenged the least bit and tries to force the ball inside between defenders. And one of the worst things about this team is fouling a shooter on a three point shot. I have seen this constantly with Cal's teams and it's mind boggling.

 

[ck-2]

I’m 50 and I’ve followed the Cats since I was old enough to watch. I’m ready for a change. I thought when Cal came here he was a great recruiter and a mediocre coach.
Now I’m not so sure about his ability to recruit a group of guys who when put together make a basketball team. He tries to play the same style regardless if it fits his personnel.
I’ve had enough of Cal and don’t fear his departure.

 

[MakinMusic]

No, not at all. I can guarantee about every fan on here has one time or another had to drive around in their car to get a good enough signal to be able to get a UK game on the radio.
Or recorded a game and avoided anyone and everyone to keep from hearing the score.
Or stood in a department store to watch a game.
My point is, UK fans love UK basketball. Will go to no ends to see a game. Will travel as far as tbey need to to see a game.
Mske slight of it if you want. Act as if you are above such things. Make yourself to be more sophisticated if you want.

I’ve done all of what you mentioned. That’s a different story than whining, bitching and complaining like a 7 year old due to one bad start in 11 years years of great success. Wanting to get rid of someone who has done so much without offering the opportunity to fix the problem..... That’s emotional immaturity. Yes, I would like to think at my age, or anyone over 12, is above all that for the most part.

Calipari may publicly say he’s not changing but it doesn’t mean he won’t. Frankly, it’s not about Calipari for me. It’s about making the best decisions at the best time for the future of the program. Not knee jerk, emotional decisions.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

36

Started watching around 1990. I support Cal if he's willing to make staff changes, change his offense, and change his recruiting philosophy. Otherwise, it's all old and stale. I don't even care to watch UK basketball anymore. It's just not fun to watch or follow anymore.

I'm sick of hearing about the NBA. It was fine when we were winning big. Now we get to watch awful basketball every year, and hope we put it together by March. We are never building the program. We are in a constant state of rebuild new team, wash, rinse, repeat. None of these kids care about this school, which again, is fine if we are winning. If we are going to be this awful, at least be awful with kids that wanna be here.

This is exactly how I feel. The difference is, I don't think Cal is able and/or willing to make any changes, so I want him to leave now before the damage he's doing becomes irreversible. I really feel that any stance calling for patience with Cal lends credence to the idiots who were saying that our fans just wanted Tubby gone because he was black.

57...started watching when Givens, Robey, Phillips and Lee were freshmen. And ain't too proud to admit that I cried on their senior night.

 

[Cawood86]

I’ve done all of what you mentioned. That’s a different story than whining, bitching and complaining like a 7 year old due to one bad start in 11 years years of great success. Wanting to get rid of someone who has done so much without offering the opportunity to fix the problem..... That’s emotional immaturity. Yes, I would like to think at my age, or anyone over 12, is above all that for the most part.

Calipari may publicly say he’s not changing but it doesn’t mean he won’t. Frankly, it’s not about Calipari for me. It’s about making the best decisions at the best time for the future of the program. Not knee jerk, emotional decisions.

That's the problem. You think it's just about this season. It's about what has been happening as much as what is happening now.
A season like this has been coming for a while because of the way Cal runs UK right now.
Most everybody wants him to change. Most don't think he will, me included.

 

[hotelblue]

cal is just honoring the 20th anniversary of team turmoil.

 

[cathouse]

I disagree that the program would be destroyed.

Guys, this is 2020. It doesn't even take football programs 4-5 years to rebuild a destroyed program from probation anymore.

College basketball is easy to rebuild, and great coaches who have the competitive drive to succeed here can implement their system within 18 months and have the train rolling.

I agree, Cal would leave this program in trouble but he has left every single program he has ever had in trouble. He was always going to be a tough act to replace one way or another. Calipari didn't get to where he is by being a nice guy that puts programs ahead of his own interests. He came from nowhere, no connections, and average.

I think some of this is really overplayed. I'm not sure when UK fans became scared of taking risks and advancing, but that's how we got here. We can do what we want to do.

You are probably correct in saying the program would not be destroyed. But the program would be set back several seasons in trying to rebuild it to a championship level when Cal leaves with no depth on the team.

Think about Rick Pitino's first team here and what a struggle he had building a championship program when Sutton and CM gutted the program, and at that time, he was hands down the best college coach out there anywhere!

By the way, the majority of the IU fans thought it would be no big deal to keep their program relevant after BK got booted and we all know how that has turned out for them.

Why is Cal so angry at the fans? Had he rather we just didn't give a crap about the program?

I think he is building a strawman around the fans so he can walk away from this monster he has created and blame it on the fans while leaving the program on rock bottom.

We are near Rock bottom right now. I am hoping Cal can turn this season around and make some changes in his "culture" that will also maintain the program. It can't all be about the NBA and these players. It is a two way street and Cal has to recognize that and make changes sooner rather than later.

My gut tells me his ego will prevent him from even acknowledging that there IS a problem.

 

[Redraider559]

That's the problem. You think it's just about this season. It's about what has been happening as much as what is happening now.
A season like this has been coming for a while because of the way Cal runs UK right now.
Most everybody wants him to change. Most don't think he will, me included.

To me, he's the best at UK since Rupp. Just a winner no matter where he coaches. It will be a bad day the day he leaves.
I think he's got a team, if Sarr gets the waiver, that will be a legit contender for a FF this coming season. Might be if Sarr doesn't.

Really? You sure it’s not just an emotional reaction because of the terrible start?

 

[MakinMusic]

Really? You sure it’s not just an emotional reaction because of the terrible start?

I’m truly not trying to call anyone out. Since this was brought to my attention, it’s very telling. Precisely what I’m talking about with half the fan base. It’s almost as if they wake up and say, “How do I feel today, am I in or out at the moment?”

 

[Redraider559]

I’m truly not trying to call anyone out. Since this was brought to my attention, it’s very telling. Precisely what I’m talking about with half the fan base. It’s almost as if they wake up and say, “How do I feel today, am I in or out at the moment?”

Yeah I’m just kind of getting tired of it. There’s plenty of evidence of other posters doing this if you go back and look. I mean we had a good team just LAST year, a team that wasn’t just full of freshman either but returning players

 

[cathouse]

Admitted to UK fandom in 1992
You’ve only seen bad tubby ball and BCG
Older have seen two huge scandals, another drunk that broke the program.
A president that proclaimed “he was going to make UK the Harvard of the south” (screw sports)
CM try to convince RP TO NOT take the broken program.
Georgetown loss with Hall
ADs barely be able to field a competitive football team.
These are just some of the reasons, I am gunshy
And another BCG or Sutton type would not rebuild the program. Hell, even a Tubby would fail miserably....

But that’s just me

You are correct in the list of all the NEGATIVE things us older fans have witnessed over the past 60 years.

What you forgot to mention is that we also witnessed:
8 National Championships, NIT Championships when they were relevant, the building of a basketball program with the most wins in history of the sport, dozens of SEC championships, the Unforgettable, Rupp's Runts, the Fiddling Five, owning teams like Tennessee and Auburn, Ole Miss and Miss State. Georgia also. We were the toast of the nation in basketball circles.

AND, the greatest basketball program in history was built by playing unbelievable team ball, with individual players who could dribble, shoot, and rebound the basketball. And, make free throws.

And the strangest thing is this program was built and all these games and championships were won with VERY FEW NBA stars.

Now, we have a large portion of our fan base and a head coach who thinks you can't compete without 8 OAD players every year.

Ridiculous! We won before Cal and we will win after Cal. It will require hiring the right coach and time to rebuild the roster, but with the transfer rules in place now, even that will be much easier to do than in the past.

 

[jameslee32]

Morgu Memphis fan opinions are irrelevant in this discussion.

 

[Blueaz]

Fair enough on my age

I did have an obsessed father who ingrained images (turned experiences probably) of former UK everything.

On the scandal front, it didn't destroy UK - point to me

On the Drunk - I have also lived through a drunk coach era, we weren't destroyed. - point me

CM and Pitino - did not destroy the program - points

Football was harder when the SEC pie money didn't make our athletic department rich. Our program is fine - points

Through it all we are standing where we are man. I can't see how the Calipari era ending after 12 or 13 years would suddenly make UK the doormat of the nation. Also, it still doesn't matter when it comes to modern times. They do not punish the way they used to, I'm pretty sure the chances of hiring a drunk again are slim to none, and CM didn't have modern budgets at his disposal.

It’s not a passing match, just giving my perspective.
we will survive a coaching change, likely it will be a poor 2-4 years...but maybe that will rally the fans,,,

You are correct in the list of all the NEGATIVE things us older fans have witnessed over the past 60 years.

What you forgot to mention is that we also witnessed:
8 National Championships, NIT Championships when they were relevant, the building of a basketball program with the most wins in history of the sport, dozens of SEC championships, the Unforgettable, Rupp Runs, the Fiddling Five, owning teams like Tennessee and Auburn, Ole Misd and Miss State. Georgia also. We were the toast of the nation in basketball circles.

AND, the greatest basketball program in history was built by playing unbelievable team ball, with indivplayers who could dribble, shoot, and rebound the basketball.

And the strangest thing is this program was built and all these games and championships were won with VERY FEW NBA stars.

Now, we have a large portion of our fan base and a head coach who thinks you can't compete without 8 OAD players every year.

Ridiculous! We won before Cal and we will win after Cal. It will require hiring the right coach and time to rebuild the roster, but with the transfer rules in place now, even that will be much easier to do than in the past.

don’t dispute anything you said.
it’s more for the ones screaming for his head... they will not take another 3-4 of nonUK standards.
They going nuts over 2... one down year, followed by shitty year.

I can take it, I’m old and have patience.

 

[kritikalcat]

53 and fan since the mid 70’s, and I’ve never been a huge Cal fan. That doesn’t mean I don’t get excited about the amazing recruiting classes, final fours, the 2012 title, or follow former Cal players in the NBA.

Maybe it’s jealousy, because it became a lot harder to score tickets when Cal was hired lol; but I don’t think he’s the best out there by several measures. I do worry that filling the job with someone suitable is much harder than a lot of fans think.

 

[KyFaninNC]

cal is just honoring the 20th anniversary of team turmoil.

KUDOS, sir. That was a good one.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

You are correct in the list of all the NEGATIVE things us older fans have witnessed over the past 60 years.

What you forgot to mention is that we also witnessed:
8 National Championships, NIT Championships when they were relevant, the building of a basketball program with the most wins in history of the sport, dozens of SEC championships, the Unforgettable, Rupp Runs, the Fiddling Five, owning teams like Tennessee and Auburn, Ole Misd and Miss State. Georgia also. We were the toast of the nation in basketball circles.

AND, the greatest basketball program in history was built by playing unbelievable team ball, with indivplayers who could dribble, shoot, and rebound the basketball.

And the strangest thing is this program was built and all these games and championships were won with VERY FEW NBA stars.

Now, we have a large portion of our fan base and a head coach who thinks you can't compete without 8 OAD players every year.

Ridiculous! We won before Cal and we will win after Cal. It will require hiring the right coach and time to rebuild the roster, but with the transfer rules in place now, even that will be much easier to do than in the past.

I love this post and want to thank you. Every word is spot on.

 

[MakinMusic]

Yeah I’m just kind of getting tired of it. There’s plenty of evidence of other posters doing this if you go back and look. I mean we had a good team just LAST year, a team that wasn’t just full of freshman either but returning players

Yes....again, it’s just emotional bullshit. Notice no one wants to reply or respond to those old comments. There is no argument to defend it. Just silly....change with the wind. Sit around piss and moan because we have some others joining us.

 

[ZaytovenCat]

Oddly different opinions of last season between now and then

Can’t even begin to imagine how much time you spent looking for a post like that to fit your agenda. Yeah it’s different. In the moment I wanted to to believe we had a shot but realistically looking back, after all the stuff that has leaked about Ashton, we weren’t winning anything.

So congrats for wasting your time, I guess?

 

[MakinMusic]

Can’t even begin to imagine how much time you spent looking for a post like that to fit your agenda. Yeah it’s different. In the moment I wanted to to believe we had a shot but realistically looking back, after all the stuff that has leaked about Ashton, we weren’t winning anything.

So congrats for wasting your time, I guess?

Not a waste of time for him....actually continues to prove the point being discussed throughout this thread and many others. More of the same.

 

[Cawood86]

I’m truly not trying to call anyone out. Since this was brought to my attention, it’s very telling. Precisely what I’m talking about with half the fan base. It’s almost as if they wake up and say, “How do I feel today, am I in or out at the moment?”

Are there some like that? Absolutely.
Those types are usually never happy. I don't believe that's the case for many in this situation.
Every really good team Cal had had at UK had a mixture. Experienced players and top flight freshman.
That slowly began to fade to where it is now.
No Patterson no Liggins no great Wall and Cousins team. No Miller, Lamb, Jones no title.
There had to be mix then, there has to be one now.

 

[cathouse]

I love this post and want to thank you. Every word is spot on.

Each of us has a tendency to either focus on all of the negatives or all of the positives, depending on our agenda, but reality is there has always been good and bad with our program. But through all that bad, we are still the top basketball program in the nation. We just don't want to lose that spot because a coach has a different agenda now than when he was hired. Mitch needs to have a conversation with our HOF coach and put things into perspective for him. Or, the fans will get Mitch's attention the only way they know how, and that will cause Mitch a lot of sleepless nights if that happens. Just my opinion.

 

[cathouse]

It’s not a passing match, just giving my perspective.
we will survive a coaching change, likely it will be a poor 2-4 years...but maybe that will rally the fans,,,

don’t dispute anything you said.
it’s more for the ones screaming for his head... they will not take another 3-4 of nonUK standards.
They going nuts over 2... one down year, followed by shitty year.

I can take it, I’m old and have patience.

Unfortunately, I'm old and probably don't have much time left. Sure didn't want to go out watching this brand of basketball at UK. Not what this program has been about in my lifetime.

 

[morgousky]

I’ve done all of what you mentioned. That’s a different story than whining, bitching and complaining like a 7 year old due to one bad start in 11 years years of great success. Wanting to get rid of someone who has done so much without offering the opportunity to fix the problem..... That’s emotional immaturity. Yes, I would like to think at my age, or anyone over 12, is above all that for the most part.

Calipari may publicly say he’s not changing but it doesn’t mean he won’t. Frankly, it’s not about Calipari for me. It’s about making the best decisions at the best time for the future of the program. Not knee jerk, emotional decisions.

But I haven't see anyone say fire Cal today? Some of us just TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT WHEN HE SAYS NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. WE SEE IT COMING.

 

[morgousky]

You are probably correct in saying the program would not be destroyed. But the program would be set back several seasons in trying to rebuild it to a championship level when Cal leaves with no depth on the team.

Think about Rick Pitino's first team here and what a struggle he had building a championship program when Sutton and CM gutted the program, and at that time, he was hands down the best college coach out there anywhere!

By the way, the majority of the IU fans thought it would be no big deal to keep their program relevant after BK got booted and we all know how that has turned out for them.

Why is Cal so angry at the fans? Had he rather we just didn't give a crap about the program?

I think he is building a strawman around the fans so he can walk away from this monster he has created and blame it on the fans while leaving the program on rock bottom.

We are near Rock bottom right now. I am hoping Cal can turn this season around and make some changes in his "culture" that will also maintain the program. It can't all be about the NBA and these players. It is a two way street and Cal has to recognize that and make changes sooner rather than later.

My gut tells me his ego will prevent him from even acknowledging that there IS a problem.

Indiana doesn't suck because they got rid of BK. They suck because they held on to it TOO LONG. They then followed it up with terrible hires.

All fo which I would like to see UK avoid.

 

[Bigblue2023]

Indiana doesn't suck because they got rid of BK. They suck because they held on to it TOO LONG. They then followed it up with terrible hires.

All fo which I would like to see UK avoid.

Definitely true

 

[cathouse]

Indiana doesn't suck because they got rid of BK. They suck because they held on to it TOO LONG. They then followed it up with terrible hires.

All fo which I would like to see UK avoid.

Oh, I totally agree on Knight, which is my point about Cal also. When you see the program in a nose dive, you have to take steps to pull it out of a dive. BK was just like Cal. Big Ego. Fans are dumba$$es, I'm a HOF coach, I've won 3 National Championships, etc., etc.

My point, is as a fan, you can't be delusional when your program is tanking to think you can keep doing the same thing every year with these OAD and fix the problems. IU fans were delusional about BK changing, and so are some of the UK fans thinking that Cal will change. Those type of egos will never change when they have had past success. I hope I am wrong about Cal. I want him to succeed.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Just turned 40.

I would give Cal until next fall to implement radical changes. including getting rid of Flint/Barbee and hiring an offensive coach.

He would also have to publicly state that his offensive paradigm needs massive overhaul. Since none of that is likely though, I think it's probable that Cal won't make it here beyond next season.

 

[MakinMusic]

But I haven't see anyone say fire Cal today? Some of us just TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT WHEN HE SAYS NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. WE SEE IT COMING.

To your comment about no one saying “Fire Calipari today” I say let it play out. No point in needlessly slinging the negativity when we are in a wait and see position.

 

[ManitouDan]

I’ve done all of what you mentioned. That’s a different story than whining, bitching and complaining like a 7 year old due to one bad start in 11 years years of great success. Wanting to get rid of someone who has done so much without offering the opportunity to fix the problem..... That’s emotional immaturity. Yes, I would like to think at my age, or anyone over 12, is above all that for the most part.

Calipari may publicly say he’s not changing but it doesn’t mean he won’t. Frankly, it’s not about Calipari for me. It’s about making the best decisions at the best time for the future of the program. Not knee jerk, emotional decisions.

But its NOT " just 1 bad start " its a total compilation of many things of which have been stated here a 1000 times. Last 5 years been less than expected for a guy that brags like Cal. The numbers dont equal a guy making 10 mil a year. But it isnt really the cash .. If he were the 1st 5 year Cal I'd pay him a 5 mil bonus . But he hasnt changed as the game evolved.

 

[MakinMusic]

But its NOT " just 1 bad start " its a total compilation of many things of which have been stated here a 1000 times. Last 5 years been less than expected for a guy that brags like Cal. The numbers dont equal a guy making 10 mil a year. But it isnt really the cash .. If he were the 1st 5 year Cal I'd pay him a 5 mil bonus . But he hasnt changed as the game evolved.

I disagree with the premise around “it’s been bad for many reasons.” No big deal we just disagree.

I agree he’s paid too much but I think all of the coaches are paid too much. That’s a cultural thing we’ve allowed to happen over 30 years. It speaks to the cultural sports obsession we have in general.

That said, with Calipari it’s a problem created by Kentucky and to some degree the fans. If you want to be pissed, be pissed at the administration and fans for allowing the money to get out of control. I certainly don’t expect Calipari or any other coach to turn the money down and ask for less.

 

[kybassfan]

As far as age, I vividly remember Mike Casey breaking his leg.

I support UK basketball. If they put it on the floor, I’m going to back them. In public, it’s a very rare thing when I criticize them. What I say to someone in private or what I voice directly to the institution might be another matter. I don’t think it’s a matter of age at all. To me it’s a matter of whether you are behind your team 100% or whether you back them only when they are doing well. Also I think we have a percentage of the fan base that has an unhealthy association of the program to their own sense of worth. Also I think we have a group of gamblers that don’t like losing money.

 

[Duke Blu]

I am 43. Although a Duke fan, I am a college basketball fan period. I actually found it rather easy to root for UK at times when Pitino was there, which is when my experiences watching UK began. I believe the period under Pitino was one of the more magical periods in college basketball period. Those teams were exciting and I can watch YouTube videos of Delk, McCartey, Anderson, Walker, Mercer, Sheppard, Turner, Padgett, and of course the teams with Mashburn and Ford before them (My apologies for any wrong spelling) I remember all the fast breaks and three pointers. Pitino had NBA players too but it was still about BBN and that jersey and that school. I suppose if I were a UK fan, I think I would be frustrated. Not just with the losses because that happens but it just never seemed like the focus was on pride in UK on the jersey under Cal. If you come to UK as a player with the goal of living out a dream to wear that jersey and bring championships to the school, I feel like the NBA stuff will take care of itself. So I THINK I understand where OP is coming from. Hopefully I’m not out of line but I thought this was an interesting enough topic to comment,.

 

[MakinMusic]

Never trust a Duke fan. They only want the empire to fall. Never trust a Duke fan.

 

[Duke Blu]

You don’t have to trust me but you know this was fun

 

[ZaytovenCat]

Never trust a Duke fan. They only want the empire to fall. Never trust a Duke fan.

The Duke fan makes more sense than you who thinks Cal has only had “one bad start in 11 years of great success.”

 

[MakinMusic]

The Duke fan makes more sense than you who thinks Cal has only had “one bad start in 11 years of great success.”

That tells me all I need to know about you. Anyone siding with a Duke fan isn’t a Kentucky fan.

 

[wildcatwelder]

I'm 58, and been cheering on our Wildcats since the early '70's. I was 13 when we lost in the NCAA to UCLA, and remember crying myself to sleep, lol.

I remember quite vividly when we beat Duke in '78 for the title, and I was on cloud nine!! I met Coach Hall several times, and even got to play some pick up games with some of players from that team several years later.

I'm of the opinion Cal's "system" is broken, and unless he fixes it, ( i don't harbor any illusions that he wants to), it's time for him to move on.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I’m a supporter of Cal and think he’s represented the program well and won. I think player retention is an issue. People keep saying the last 5 years but 2017, 2019, and 2020 were good teams with a chance at greatness. Having players stay that should will fix a lot of ills, and I firmly believe he will, and should, be given the opportunity to right the ship.

 

[RunninRichie]

I’m a supporter of Cal and think he’s represented the program well and won. I think player retention is an issue. People keep saying the last 5 years but 2017, 2019, and 2020 were good teams with a chance at greatness. Having players stay that should will fix a lot of ills, and I firmly believe he will, and should, be given the opportunity to right the ship.

morg got banned

 

[MakinMusic]

I’m a supporter of Cal and think he’s represented the program well and won. I think player retention is an issue. People keep saying the last 5 years but 2017, 2019, and 2020 were good teams with a chance at greatness. Having players stay that should will fix a lot of ills, and I firmly believe he will, and should, be given the opportunity to right the ship.

Great, solid, I’m a grown man post. Take note youngsters.