Is age the disconnect between Cal supporters and Program defenders?

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

Hahaha, ok. Anything to try to validate your point I guess.

Andy Katz, fansided, and stadium all predicted that TT would have made the tournament last season.

NCAA predictions: Andy Katz's projections for the 2020 tournament field

Here are the latest 2020 NCAA bracket predictions less than a week away from Selection Sunday, courtesy of NCAA.com's Andy Katz.

www.google.com

Top Bracketologists Create 2019-20 NCAA Tournament Bracket - Stadium

We formed our own committee to decide what this year's NCAA Tournament bracket would have looked like.

www.google.com

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

So you can assume they were going to the NIT and use that as fact, that must be what they call....what's the word....horse hockey

I looked it up. TT was predicted to make last seasons tournament.

@morgousky I’ve seen people tell you 100 times that Beard was going to another NIT if their would have been a tournament. Look at this article. Some of the biggest experts out there had them picked to make the field.

Top Bracketologists Create 2019-20 NCAA Tournament Bracket - Stadium

We formed our own committee to decide what this year's NCAA Tournament bracket would have looked like.

www.google.com

 

[Blueaz]

I disagree that the program would be destroyed.

Guys, this is 2020. It doesn't even take football programs 4-5 years to rebuild a destroyed program from probation anymore.

College basketball is easy to rebuild, and great coaches who have the competitive drive to succeed here can implement their system within 18 months and have the train rolling.

I agree, Cal would leave this program in trouble but he has left every single program he has ever had in trouble. He was always going to be a tough act to replace one way or another. Calipari didn't get to where he is by being a nice guy that puts programs ahead of his own interests. He came from nowhere, no connections, and average.

I think some of this is really overplayed. I'm not sure when UK fans became scared of taking risks and advancing, but that's how we got here. We can do what we want to do.

Admitted to UK fandom in 1992
You’ve only seen bad tubby ball and BCG
Older have seen two huge scandals, another drunk that broke the program.
A president that proclaimed “he was going to make UK the Harvard of the south” (screw sports)
CM try to convince RP TO NOT take the broken program.
Georgetown loss with Hall
ADs barely be able to field a competitive football team.
These are just some of the reasons, I am gunshy
And another BCG or Sutton type would not rebuild the program. Hell, even a Tubby would fail miserably....

But that’s just me

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

Admitted to UK fandom in 1992
You’ve only seen bad tubby ball and BCG
Older have seen two huge scandals, another drunk that broke the program.
A president that proclaimed “he was going to make UK the Harvard of the south” (screw sports)
CM try to convince RP TO NOT take the broken program.
Georgetown loss with Hall
ADs barely be able to field a competitive football team.
These are just some of the reasons, I am gunshy
And another BCG or Sutton type would not rebuild the program. Hell, even a Tubby would fail miserably....

But that’s just me

You make some good points. Im almost the same age as him and I’ve had people tell me about the stuff you listed. Sorry about my disagreement with you the other day. Felt bad about it. I’m man enough to admit when I’m wrong.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

These “facts” you speak of.....is it that Beard might be the only guy who would even be possible with a name? Because I’ve yet to see anything that impressed me enough to make that move now. It may be the Texas connection but his “success” reminds me of Gillispie.

Here are some facts....Calipari has far more success than Beard and it’s not even close or debatable.....not debatable. What happens when Beard comes in and struggles with a rebuild for a couple years? I can tell you....fans will be looking for the next mediocre coach who has a season or two of success at a no program school. Beard isn’t there yet. We are Kentucky. We’ve struggled enough for all of us trying to stay out of mediocrity leading up to 2009. We don’t want another up and coming no name coach. Let him continue to prove himself for a couple more seasons. If Calipari doesn’t adjust and improve and Beard (or another) shows more promise than they do today, pull the trigger. Not time yet.

I can only speak for myself but I’d be willing to suffer thru a rebuild if it meant a return to normalcy, whether it’s Cal or the next guy. I just want to care again & that’s not gonna happen for me as long as the program is a revolving door of players. But, I’m not worried about a rebuild & I think we’d be just fine in a season or 2, worst case. As long as the staff puts in the effort we’ll always recruit well. The new transfer rules will help bridge some gaps until the roster is stabilized, too. There’s a reason Cal was waiting on that phone call in 09 AND in 07 when we passed him over. My biggest worry is trusting Mitch to make the right hire.

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

I can only speak for myself but I’d be willing to suffer thru a rebuild if it meant a return to normalcy, whether it’s Cal or the next guy. I just want to care again & that’s not gonna happen for me as long as the program is a revolving door of players. But, I’m not worried about a rebuild & I think we’d be just fine in a season or 2, worst case. As long as the staff puts in the effort we’ll always recruit well. The new transfer rules will help bridge some gaps until the roster is stabilized, too. There’s a reason Cal was waiting on that phone call in 09 AND in 07 when we passed him over. My biggest worry is trusting Mitch to make the right hire.

Damn good post. I agree with everything you said

 

[Big10Cat]

I’m 63. Been following the Cats since 1964. Feel like we should change the name to University of NBA to be more reflective of reality. I cringe at the inability of supposed high profile players that can’t seem to shoot, pass, dribble or guard a folding chair when the season starts. Yes, the level of play usually improves as the season progresses. But the having to hold my nose routine is getting old.

 

[MakinMusic]

is it that Beard might be the only guy who would even be possible with a name?

No. I would do what all of the best programs or organizations do. You call the usual suspects, you gauge interests. Next you have a list if proven successful up and comers. Beard is firmly in that camp.


Here are some facts....Calipari has far more success than Beard and it’s not even close or debatable.

This post is actually not even worth responding to. You obviously have an emotion investment into Cal, which is understandable, but the logic is absurd. Sure, the Yankees should have dealt a rookie Mantle because well, Joe DiMaggio.

What happens when Beard comes in and struggles with a rebuild for a couple years?

I don't know. He'll obviously have a short leash for a while at a program like UK. I'm not sure anyone would mind if it takes him a couple of years to get some juniors. You really think UK fans would hate seeing a team grow, with players from Kentucky like Miller or Powell, even if they struggle on the way there? No way. The implication that UK fans are wild is true, the insinuation that we don't understand the difference between spoiled dgaf OAD athletes struggling and kids playing for the university and building a brand struggling is idiotic and condescending. You know it's not true.


We don’t want another up and coming no name coach.

You obviously do not pay much attention to college basketball.

That's about the nicest way I could put it. A no name coach? If Kasnas fired self tomorrow, they're hiring Beard as fast as they can. Notice many Kansas fans have been on this board since out bad start. Notice also that not one of them seems to ever take issue with the idea that Beard could. easily be there next coach?

The only exceptions to any blue blood not being interested would be UNC and Duke, and that's only because they have Roy and K who will probably be allowed to hand pick one of their own if it's possible.

Past a few top crazy names, he's the next best thing, and might even be better in the long run. You should actually do some research and try and understand some things you're missing. Regurgitating falsehoods because you don't understand doesn't mean you suddenly become right.

Let him continue to prove himself for a couple more seasons

Why? So you and a handful of others can simply write that off too? Is an elite 8 and (almost) a national freakin champioship in the butthole of college basketball, Lubbock Texas not enough? He needs another final four? He needs accomplishments that no one has been demanded of to coach here?

I actually am in agreement with this in some ways though. I don't think we can fire Cal right now, I just think pressure needs to begin and the seat needs to go from warm to hot yesterday. I don't mind seeing what Beard becomes over a few years, but I don't need to see much more than I'm already seeing now.


If Calipari doesn’t adjust and improve

He's already said he's adjusting nothing. He's already said the system works. He's still trending down, we lose everyone and bring in the same. You're basically saying you're going to agree with me, but you can't admit it yet.

Okay.

I stopped reading when you had no real answer to the facts of Calipari having far more success than Beard at this point. Again, not debatable. You must agree.

 

[MakinMusic]

The reason this site exists is because of the passion and love of UK fans toward basketball.
This board and this site are active year round. Why? Because of UK fans and their passion and enthusiasm for decades.
You can act above it all if you want. You cay all those things, but here you are on this board discussing it.
The arrogance of your post comes across as someone who thinks they are more educated and enlightened than the rest of of us peasants.
If you barely care, and think it childish and immature, then why are you on here putting your 2 cents. Spare me the elitist arrogant talk.

I’m far from elitist but I have some basic damn common sense and general control of my emotions. That’s all. Must have hit a nerve because you know it’s true.

 

[MakinMusic]

I can only speak for myself but I’d be willing to suffer thru a rebuild if it meant a return to normalcy, whether it’s Cal or the next guy. I just want to care again & that’s not gonna happen for me as long as the program is a revolving door of players. But, I’m not worried about a rebuild & I think we’d be just fine in a season or 2, worst case. As long as the staff puts in the effort we’ll always recruit well. The new transfer rules will help bridge some gaps until the roster is stabilized, too. There’s a reason Cal was waiting on that phone call in 09 AND in 07 when we passed him over. My biggest worry is trusting Mitch to make the right hire.

You hit the nail on the head in your last sentence and it’s barely been part of this discussion Barnhart can’t be trusted on this one just like he was told to step aside with Calipari. He would love to go after Bray or another friend. That’s a big problem.

 

[TheAnonymous13]

How about going on a 6 year final four drought, the worst start in program history, and no end in sight.

Is that good enough for a Florida fan to think we're cool for thinking of a different direction?

How ya been man?

I’ve been good, thanks. Happy to be back on the road a bit.

I’m not a Florida fan - not in the way you think I am. But I am also not a Kentucky “fan”. So I’ll step away and let y’all slug it out. Have fun!

 

[Redraider559]

You hit the nail on the head in your last sentence and it’s barely been part of this discussion Barnhart can’t be trusted on this one just like he was told to step aside with Calipari. He would love to go after Bray or another friend. That’s a big problem.

To me, he's the best at UK since Rupp. Just a winner no matter where he coaches. It will be a bad day the day he leaves.
I think he's got a team, if Sarr gets the waiver, that will be a legit contender for a FF this coming season. Might be if Sarr doesn't.

Cawood actually agrees with you

 

[morgousky]

Oh I don't mind if you don't read it. I just wanted to take your absurd points one by one and show everyone else how important it is to get basic logics courses taught in every single community college degree plan.

If you don't understand why your comparison between the two is so absurd, then the joke isn't on me man.

I stopped reading when you had no real answer to the facts of Calipari having far more success than Beard at this point. Again, not debatable. You must agree.

 

[morgousky]

Admitted to UK fandom in 1992
You’ve only seen bad tubby ball and BCG
Older have seen two huge scandals, another drunk that broke the program.
A president that proclaimed “he was going to make UK the Harvard of the south” (screw sports)
CM try to convince RP TO NOT take the broken program.
Georgetown loss with Hall
ADs barely be able to field a competitive football team.
These are just some of the reasons, I am gunshy
And another BCG or Sutton type would not rebuild the program. Hell, even a Tubby would fail miserably....

But that’s just me

Fair enough on my age

I did have an obsessed father who ingrained images (turned experiences probably) of former UK everything.

On the scandal front, it didn't destroy UK - point to me

On the Drunk - I have also lived through a drunk coach era, we weren't destroyed. - point me

CM and Pitino - did not destroy the program - points

Football was harder when the SEC pie money didn't make our athletic department rich. Our program is fine - points

Through it all we are standing where we are man. I can't see how the Calipari era ending after 12 or 13 years would suddenly make UK the doormat of the nation. Also, it still doesn't matter when it comes to modern times. They do not punish the way they used to, I'm pretty sure the chances of hiring a drunk again are slim to none, and CM didn't have modern budgets at his disposal.

 

[morgousky]

I looked it up. TT was predicted to make last seasons tournament.

@morgousky I’ve seen people tell you 100 times that Beard was going to another NIT if their would have been a tournament. Look at this article. Some of the biggest experts out there had them picked to make the field.

Top Bracketologists Create 2019-20 NCAA Tournament Bracket - Stadium

We formed our own committee to decide what this year's NCAA Tournament bracket would have looked like.

www.google.com

Damn I didn't even realize they were talking about last year. Projected 11 seed😂

The guy is sustaining success at Texas friggin Tech, and was an OVERTIME from winning a national championship at his age at a doormat, something Cal was able to do after UK and after 40 years coaching.

That's about as slam dunk shut as it gets.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I’m 48.

I like Cal as a coach, but I am concerned with the direction he has taken the program.

I think some changes need to be made. He needs to invest in some 4 year type players and build some experience to go with the talent he brings in.

That is the recipe for success.

Cal credits the AD’s and KAT’s for his success but often forgets about the Miller’s and WCS’s that were just as important.

Balance is the key. Nothing wrong with bringing in 5-stars, but you need some 4 year players to be glue guys.

Our best team since 2015 had Fox, Bam, and Monk but it also had Hawkins and Willis. Two Seniors and both Kentucky boys.

Cal believes talent is more important than experience, but that should not be the debate. It should be clear that the key is to have a mix of talent AND experience.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I keep seeing Beard’s name being tossed around a lot. I noticed it in another thread a few days ago as well. There’s a segment of our fanbase that have short memories I guess.

Remember all the flopping TT did when we played in Lubbock last season? I remember this board going absolutely crazy, there was so much flopping. I don’t give a damn how many games he’s won at TT, I couldn’t stand that type of defensive scheme here. Kentucky don’t play bitch ball!

Just wanted to add that to the Beard discussion. Will post later in regards to Cal at UK. Too late to get into all that. Carry on.

 

[morgousky]

I keep seeing Beard’s name being tossed around a lot. I noticed it in another thread a few days ago as well. There’s a segment of our fanbase that have short memories I guess.

Remember all the flopping TT did when we played in Lubbock last season? I remember this board going absolutely crazy, there was so much flopping. I don’t give a damn how many games he’s won at TT, I couldn’t stand that type of defensive scheme here. Kentucky don’t play bitch ball!

Just wanted to add that to the Beard discussion. Will post later in regards to Cal at UK. Too late to get into all that. Carry on.

Probably a bit of a talent gap.

He’d be an excellent hire in a year or two. Style of play even fits UK type coaches with defensive first principles. He’d fit perfectly in the SEC. I think the flipping issue would take care of itself and having watched them quite a bit, they don’t always do that. He was doing what it took to beat our athletes.

Also this board hated Cal and thought he was a cheater. They got over it. If Bears won we wouldn’t care if we flopped some. It wouldn’t be to the extent of Duke anyway.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Probably a bit of a talent gap.

He’d be an excellent hire in a year or two. Style of play even fits UK type coaches with defensive first principles. He’d fit perfectly in the SEC. I think the flipping issue would take care of itself and having watched them quite a bit, they don’t always do that. He was doing what it took to beat our athletes.

Also this board hated Cal and thought he was a cheater. They got over it. If Bears won we wouldn’t care if we flopped some. It wouldn’t be to the event of Duke anyway.

Fair enough. Man, I just remember losing my shit during that game, due to all the flops. They looked like flopping duke on steroids.
EDIT; Admittedly, I haven’t watched them a whole lot, other than a couple tourney games a couple seasons ago and said game against the Cats.

 

[morgousky]

I’m 48.

I like Cal as a coach, but I am concerned with the direction he has taken the program.

I think some changes need to be made. He needs to invest in some 4 year type players and build some experience to go with the talent he brings in.

That is the recipe for success.

Cal credits the AD’s and KAT’s for his success but often forgets about the Miller’s and WCS’s that were just as important.

Balance is the key. Nothing wrong with bringing in 5-stars, but you need some 4 year players to be glue guys.

Our best team since 2015 had Fox, Bam, and Monk but it also had Hawkins and Willis. Two Seniors and both Kentucky boys.

Cal believes talent is more important than experience, but that should not be the debate. It should be clear that the key is to have a mix of talent AND experience.

Agree. And also, Cals best teams at UK through ‘15 had key returnees and upperclassman. He feasted off of our upperclassman when he first took over. It’s what made most of his success possible.

To deny this is simply absurd.

 

[morgousky]

Fair enough. Man, I just remember losing my shit during that game, due to all the flops. They looked like flopping duke on steroids.
EDIT; Admittedly, I haven’t watched the a whole lot, other than a couple tourney games a couple seasons ago and said game against the Cats.

Definitely wasn’t a fan of his during that game

 

[cats#1again]

Cal is about to have two nits at UK. Also, Beard led arkansas little rock to the second round with a 30-5 record before going to tech. Imagine him at UK with our support and facilities.

Lol yea u would be so happy with 2nd rd exits.
Some coaches don't have what it takes to get to the big games
I'll take a guy that made 7 elite 8's in 10 tournaments

 

[CalipariCapo]

I’m 27. First teams I could really remember were the days of T Prince and Keith Bogans

I was a huge advocate of Calipari before he was hired and I wanted him for the job badly. However, I am ready for changes. Not necessarily in a coaching change but the way Cal runs the program. He’s created a monster that is swallowing him up and I feel like he’s too stubborn to change at this point in his career. I’m sick of the one n done, putting NBA before UK, and the constant team turmoil that causes in recent years. With that said, Cal had accomplished a lot here and I’m not the type of guy that throws out a relationship at the first sign of true adversity. He’s earned time to right the ship and make the changes the fan base is longing for. If he refuses and we get more of the same, it will be time to look elsewhere. Although I don’t know where that would be. I don’t see anyone in the current landscape that would be a realistic option. I knew when BCG was fired that Cal was the man. I don’t necessarily see that with any current coaches outside of Stevens or Donovan.

 

[TOMCATS1990]

I like the Xavier coach too. I've seen him do a couple of interviews and watched a couple of their games. Not sure of his age.

He is young think he is 39

 

[Ocornett]

I've noticed a common theme. Most people who continue to pump Calipari seem either young, or didn't start watching college basketball until Tubby's tenure.

If you could, express your support of Calipari, followed by the year you began watching UK basketball and age.

Maybe there's a disconnect worth exploring here?

I'm 35, first team I remember was 1992 Kentucky. I no longer support this version of Calipari at the University of Kentucky and believe we should begin to demand changes or force him out.

Been watching since 1966. I support Cal and our team. Am I happy about how things are going? No. I’m patient and willing to give it a wait and see. I’ve experienced many ups and downs over the years in life and UK basketball. Things will change they always do.

 

[jbne222]

I'm 24. Certainly disappointed with how this year has gone so far (although if we're gonna have a bad year I'm fine with it being this year all things considered for obvious reasons) but Cal's earned the right to have a shot to turn it around. A 5 minute overtime period away from a Final Four in 2018 and accomplished all we could last year and really turned the season around. But if we see another season or two even close to as bad as how this one has started, the pressures on.

Ideally this is just one bad year (a year that's so messed up anyways for so many reasons), and we turn it around after. Obviously there's still a lot of time left in this season but I've kinda accepted this just isn't our year whatsoever. Not being able to go to games or even watch games with the energy of the crowd in the background makes it difficult to get too invested.

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

I've noticed a common theme. Most people who continue to pump Calipari seem either young, or didn't start watching college basketball until Tubby's tenure.

If you could, express your support of Calipari, followed by the year you began watching UK basketball and age.

Maybe there's a disconnect worth exploring here?

I'm 35, first team I remember was 1992 Kentucky. I no longer support this version of Calipari at the University of Kentucky and believe we should begin to demand changes or force him out.

Uh NO I’m 47 and been watching longer than you.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I’m 58 and I go back to Rupp’s last years. I’ve been a huge fan all my life. I loved the Cal hire and still want him here, provided he makes the necessary changes in recruiting and offensive philosophies. There’s no way he’s going to be fired. It’s just not happening. I could see him retiring if he doesn’t rectify the situation after next season. I do think replacing him would be difficult but not impossible. I would love for the next coach (whenever that is) to play a much more uptempo style on both ends of the court. I think Cal has been a very good coach, but I preferred Pitino’s style of play. It was much more fun to watch and brought more energy and excitement to the games. But Cal has had tremendous success as well. He and Pitino are much alike. Both have huge egos and are extremely stubborn. But, Pitino put the program first and I’m not sure Cal does. Cal is a bit too enamored with NBA success than UK success for his players.

 

[KentuckyMildCats]

To me it seems what's causing the big divide is some fans are playing this out to be a down year and he'll return us to glory soon enough while others think his best years are past him and we won't be playing in the championship under him again. I do think this off-season was more difficult for cal and not having any preseason games definitely hurt him. My biggest issue is he's getting older and not getting wiser, also I miss KP

 

[Blue Tsunami]

Fire a guy that’s taken UK to at least the elite 8, 7 times in 11 years to go get Chris Beard? Ummm no. Is this some sort of inside joke?

 

[acatnamedmyra]

I’m 79 and first listened to Vernon Hatton beat Temple for the championship with a last second 35 foot set shot.
For this season, stay with Cal. Write this entire COVID bullshit off. He’ll have us back next year, if not this March. Morgousky is pretty much an ass. My opinion.

 

[Redraider559]

Last year we were peaking at the right time? We were falling apart at the end. Hagans was probably done whether the season continued or not. Year before that we blow a double digit lead in the elite 8 to a team that we had bitch slapped 3 times already plus they didn’t even have their best player for the elite 8 game. It was just another example of Cal’s late game coaching losing a big game. Season before that the team underachieved all year. Finally got fairly good at the end. Then we had maybe the easiest path to a final four in ncaa tournament history and we couldn’t even make it past the sweet 16.

2015. Nothing ever tops that for me. It changed the way I felt and looked at UK games. Took me several seasons to get over and begin to feel normal again. I’ll be fine with this as soon as next year starts. Still royally pissed now though. Why couldn’t this have happened in 2013/16/18 when we had zero chance to win.

Just sucks the season is done and we didn’t get a chance to prepare for it to end. Just hit a brick wall at 100mph.

Oddly different opinions of last season between now and then

 

[highlysuspicious]

Because Cal got tipped off and stopped cheating himself.

 

[KFuqua]

I've noticed a common theme. Most people who continue to pump Calipari seem either young, or didn't start watching college basketball until Tubby's tenure.

If you could, express your support of Calipari, followed by the year you began watching UK basketball and age.

Maybe there's a disconnect worth exploring here?

I'm 35, first team I remember was 1992 Kentucky. I no longer support this version of Calipari at the University of Kentucky and believe we should begin to demand changes or force him out.

56 years old. Been watching for a long time. I remember the days of Mike Phliips, Larry Johnson, Rick Roby, Kyle Macy, etc. I am ready for Cal to move along. I would love to have a coach who cares about Kentucky basketball and not just about how many players he can get to the NBA.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Uh NO I’m 47 and been watching longer than you.

I am 69, been watching longer than you. What’s your point?

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

I am 69, been watching longer than you. What’s your point?

Gosh, I'm sorry. Have to respect my elders. My point was, it's NOT an age issue.

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

I’m 79 and first listened to Vernon Hatton beat Temple for the championship with a last second 35 foot set shot.
For this season, stay with Cal. Write this entire COVID bullshit off. He’ll have us back next year, if not this March. Morgousky is pretty much an ass. My opinion.

Agree. Yes, MoreGoosey is an ass, great opinion.

 

[DeerTurkHunter1]

I think he’s just a sock account that tries to cause arguments

Agree, he's a MoreGoosey parrot.

 

[CatGotMyTongue]

Knock Knock

Who's there?

Derek?

Derek who?

Derek "Iwontanswerbecauseitwillprovehispoint.

 

[Cawood86]

I’m far from elitist but I have some basic damn common sense and general control of my emotions. That’s all. Must have hit a nerve because you know it’s true.

No, not at all. I can guarantee about every fan on here has one time or another had to drive around in their car to get a good enough signal to be able to get a UK game on the radio.
Or recorded a game and avoided anyone and everyone to keep from hearing the score.
Or stood in a department store to watch a game.
My point is, UK fans love UK basketball. Will go to no ends to see a game. Will travel as far as tbey need to to see a game.
Mske slight of it if you want. Act as if you are above such things. Make yourself to be more sophisticated if you want.