Iowa punt return called back
- Thread starter Glenn's take
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I didn’t know the actual rule until UCONN pulled the fake fair catch on Louisville and scored on it. Unless the rule has been re-written, in order to call fair catch the player must wave their hand over their head. In other words there is a universal fair catch signal and it’s what you see typically with overhead waving. The Iowa player looked to be pointing with one hand and waving his teammates off with his other. This is the worst call I’ve seen all year.
Horrible call
I didn’t think replay was allowed to make up non called issues other than targeting
I didn’t think replay was allowed to make up non called issues other than targeting
I actually just saw a field level view of the play. Now I’m convinced that may be the worst call I’ve seen in a very long time. I suspect an apology to Iowa is coming but it’s too little too late. Shameful call
Unfortunately that was an "invalid fair catch" and by rule the ball is placed the same as it would be in a "valid fair catch".
The returner made a terrible decision.
The returner made a terrible decision.
Nope, you need to read the rule. It is very clear.
That’s an awful call. His hand was no higher than his shoulder telling his teammates which way to move.
Regardless, Minnesota should be ashamed of themselves. I think all 11 players had an opportunity to tackle him but couldn’t.
Regardless, Minnesota should be ashamed of themselves. I think all 11 players had an opportunity to tackle him but couldn’t.
I take it you didn't read my post. It was absolutely the correct call.
I read it….don’t care. It was an awful call.
No way. If humans are gonna make the calls then there has to be a common sense human element. That kid was pointing and motioning his teammates while busting his ass to the ball because he wanted to return it and he wanted blockers. This happened in real time. You’d need to stop time and pull out a ruler to determine if his arm was above his shoulders or whatever the rule requires. The refs blew it and this this seems to be the popular opinion
He waved his left arm below his head. There is no ambiguity here. The pointing was irrelevant. Some of you would argue the moon is made of cheese.
Here, try reading.
Now watch the video starting about the 2:31 mark. You either have rules or you do not.
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It sucks for Iowa because it’s pretty clear that his intent was never to call a fair catch with the benefit of replay. The rule exists though because the kicking team on the field may only have a split second glance to determine whether to lay off the returner or hit him. Therefore in the interest of safety and to prevent gamesmanship over whether it was an actual fair catch signal or not, the rule clearly states that any arm waving before fielding a kick can be considered an invalid fair catch. By the rule, this was the correct call.
Killed my parley and was the finishing piece to a 80 buck hit. I took a beating this weekend and helped a rookie hit for 775.
No it wasn’t a bad call.
The NCAA rule book explicitly calls out that waving your hand to tell your teammates to get away from the ball constitutes an invalid signal.
Rather than complaining about it, folks should learn the rules.
Common sense has to come into play. There was no intent of a fair catch. The kicking team played it as if it was live. The receiving team set up their blocks. It’s also extremely debatable whether or not he waved his arm above his shoulder.
Bunch of rules nerds in here like wet blankets. This is entertainment pure and simple. What was more exciting? That return for a td to win the game or the 30 minutes it took to replay it all and sort it all out?
Shit call. Ruined the game. Screwed the fans
Just laughable at this point. I guess you have the same feeling for every penalty that erases a TD. The poor refs, now you want them to get out their magic 8 ball to determine intent.
Must go something like this.
"Hey LT, did you mean to tackle the DE on that play? Its really important for me to know since the DE had a clear lane to the RB but once you tackled the DE the RB was all alone and had a brilliant run for the winning TD.
Oh, no sir. You see, I got a hip pointer a few games back and it hurts if I fall on it. Well, on that play I was falling and instinctively reached out to catch myself. Apparently I grabbed the DE but I didn't mean to.
Thanks LT, I would have hated to erase that winning TD."
You're right, intent is really important. It's a crying shame intent isn't a part of any rule. In fact, we should throw that damn rule book out. Its much more exciting without it.
It's the correct call when it's called if there is a flag thrown during the play.
Not throwing the flag and reviewing the play to see if he went out of bounds, and then throwing the flag is not the correct call. If they threw the flag for it at the beginning of the play, they got it right.
The rule is a bad rule, and isn't called most of the time. When you arm never gets near shoulder height, it shouldn't be an invalid signal. No one playing at the collegiate level is that stupid that they wouldn't know the difference between a wave above the shoulders over the head vs a wave down low as a player is running.
Don't care either way about the outcome, and didn't see the live call.
Not throwing the flag and reviewing the play to see if he went out of bounds, and then throwing the flag is not the correct call. If they threw the flag for it at the beginning of the play, they got it right.
The rule is a bad rule, and isn't called most of the time. When you arm never gets near shoulder height, it shouldn't be an invalid signal. No one playing at the collegiate level is that stupid that they wouldn't know the difference between a wave above the shoulders over the head vs a wave down low as a player is running.
Don't care either way about the outcome, and didn't see the live call.
Refs are not allowed to go to replay to call a penalty UNLESS it is targeting.
If called on the field fine. It wasn’t called on the field
Screw job.
They were never checking if he went out of bounds. They didn't throw a flag because an invalid fair catch is NOT a penalty. They were always checking the validity of him waiving his left arm.
Tricking the kicking team with a "fake" fair catch signal has happened more than once. Thats why the rule was changed. By rule what you describe is an invalid fair catch signal. The shame in it all is neither the returner nor Ferentz seemed to understand the rule.
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That’s not accurate and this also wasn’t a penalty.
Punt and kickoff returns are reviewable plays when the officials want to determine whether or not the receiving team advanced the ball after signaling a fair catch. See the underlined section of Article 4 on page 4 of the link below.
And the rules are also extremely clear that any waving of a returner’s hand constitutes a signal. This was a pretty cut and dry ruling by the officials. The controversy is simply a function of a lot of fans not knowing what the rules actually state.
It’s a pretty simple rule. If you are a kick returner and want to advance the ball, do not wave one of your hands at all.
There legit could be some kind of flag thrown on 98% of all plays in football. That doesn’t mean you throw them all. My issue is with the decision to penalize. Sometimes you gotta use common sense.
Shit call
The problem with this is - what if Tennessee did that to Kentucky and won a close game on a punt return like that. Would we as Kentucky fans want the technically correct call to be made? Uh...yes we would.
It stinks, and it's a bad beat for the Iowa team...but as a team you must know the rule and practice for the scenario.
I could see this rule reviewed and adjusted based on this event. It's like when Kentucky lost that damned basketball game to LSU and they changed the rule because of it....
It stinks, and it's a bad beat for the Iowa team...but as a team you must know the rule and practice for the scenario.
I could see this rule reviewed and adjusted based on this event. It's like when Kentucky lost that damned basketball game to LSU and they changed the rule because of it....
My mistake. I already knew it wasnt a penalty, so I was wrong mentioning the flag. Don't know why I misspoke on the flag part, for sure. Maybe I was thinking of the markers once used during games to mark spots.
By rule it is an invalid signal, and it's still a bad rule they should change. No one was mistaking that signal as people were hitting him immediately.
So, if it was an invalid and deceptive signal and the ball was dead, why did they allow him to get hit immediately and never blow the play dead? Since it is a rule and If the officials knew the rule, why in the interests of "player safety" would they allow the play to continue and not flag the player that tagged him at the sideline as a dead ball foul?
Yet one more way the officiating crews can both not do their jobs in real time, and yet still potentially get players hurt in the process without worrying about getting it right. Ssdd
Hating the rule is fair game. Personally, I think it's pretty easy to teach returners what the can and can't do. Creating confusion by giving a half-assed fair catch signal, in the past, gave the returner an advantage.
It IS a 'shit rule' absolutely.
I can think of 2 kick returners that used to play in the P5 and in the NFL that would have had to quit returning kicks because of how they ran when getting ready to field the ball.
I'm guessing the next move will be to make the balls and helmets magnetic, tie the returners hands at their sides, and make them try to catch the ball with their helmet and return the ball that way. That might actually make a good tabletop game....
I can think of 2 kick returners that used to play in the P5 and in the NFL that would have had to quit returning kicks because of how they ran when getting ready to field the ball.
I'm guessing the next move will be to make the balls and helmets magnetic, tie the returners hands at their sides, and make them try to catch the ball with their helmet and return the ball that way. That might actually make a good tabletop game....
Likewise, extremely easy to teach the entire coverage team that a hand waved below the shoulders is not a fair catch signal. Creating a dangerous environment by doing a half-assed job not signaling the play dead and letting the entire return team hit him is piss poor officiating.
I think it’s fine to debate whether or not the rule makes sense. I personally see no issue with the current rule, but I also can understand why others like yourself don’t like the rule as it’s currently written.
However, I disagree with your point about blowing the play dead. If a referee has any doubt about something that is reviewable, then I want the referee to let the play continue. You can always go back and look at the replay to get the play right.
But if you blow the play dead early and get it wrong, then you can end up penalizing a team and can’t fix it. For example, think about fumble returns for TDs that get taken away because a ref blew the play dead instead of letting it play out.
Personally, I think the refs handled this the right way by letting the return continue and then going back to the replay to get the call right. Feel free to disagree though.
There was NO confusion on the field. Everyone tried tackling the return. They just executed poorly as he was less than a yard from sideline and could have easily pushed him OOB.
And not one ref blew his whistle or even thought about it because they knew he didn’t call for a fair catch and wasn’t trying to fool anyone.
At some point common sense must prevail in games (and society). It wasn’t here.
Sorry but you're wrong again. That isn't the way that call is handled. In case they decide no fair catch signal was made at all, you don't want them stopping play.
This situation isn't hard to understand. Its a clear cut rule. Have you bothered to read it yet?
The rule is clear but the interpretation of what guys are or arent doing with their hands etc can be a mess out there for Refs to figure out. This was a classic case . . . you're allowed to motion to your teammates about ball location but dont do it in a way that looks like a fair catch signal. They all signal a different way and the hand signals are too open to interpretation so . . .
Heres the solution: Have every primary return men on kickoffs or punts carry a red flag in their belt and for a fair catch they have to drop it simple as that. If it accidentally comes out then its a fair catch and ball spotted right there.
Here is the RULE:
"An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B that does not meet the requirements of [a valid fair catch]."
He was clearly waving, and it clearly wasn’t a valid fair catch, so by RULE it was an invalid fair catch. The refs followed the RULES.
"An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B that does not meet the requirements of [a valid fair catch]."
He was clearly waving, and it clearly wasn’t a valid fair catch, so by RULE it was an invalid fair catch. The refs followed the RULES.
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This is another case of officials saying “look at me”. Logic be damned.
Shit call
Also, you’re the one fighting the losing battle. You know there is a poll attached to the thread right?
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