Inside zone, outside zone and recruiting

[gamecockcat]

I semi understand the basics of inside vs outside zone blocking schemes. Given that we're transitioning to an outside zone under Coen and, presumably, his successor, what does that change when it comes to recruiting on that side of the ball?

TIA for educating me and many others I would guess.

 

[Deeeefense]

I semi understand the basics of inside vs outside zone blocking schemes. Given that we're transitioning to an outside zone under Coen and, presumably, his successor, what does that change when it comes to recruiting on that side of the ball?

TIA for educating me and many others I would guess.

you want linemen that are more of the mobile, agile type as opposed to the maulers. You want one cut backs with really good acceleration - McClain for instance is a really good fit for that style.

 

[JC-3]

DeeeeFense is right. I personally do not like outside zone. Harder to get in position for o lineman and longer to maintain the block. The RB are as D generally stated more quick and explosive. UK was built for an inside scheme and we are Really good at it. I see why the theory of outside zone is appealing but UK HAS MADE A LIVIN out of being physical and running down hill. CR did not like it and others. We basically went back to inside run game the last part of the year. We will see going forward what happens but with CR, LW and current O line my guess it is a slow transition.

 

[jacobbleedsblue]

Doesn't the outside zone help with the pre-snap chess game aspect of the mcvay offense, though? I mean the way you line up for it and the presnap motions and all that?
I don't really understand run schemes on that level, either.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Doesn't the outside zone help with the pre-snap chess game aspect of the mcvay offense, though? I mean the way you line up for it and the presnap motions and all that?
I don't really understand run schemes on that level, either.

Not really. Post snap it just creates harder defensive flow which is used against the defense. However last year proved it could absolutely work with inside zone.

Hopefully we stick with last year's concepts because it worked waaaaaay better after he abandoned outside zone. We are just a few recruiting cycles away and personally I'm not sure we should even pursue such a massive change

 

[Porkins1413]

Outside zone is 10x more effective when it comes to play action. It creates more flow and its what makes the big plays possible. Moving to a heavy inside zone scheme was the right call last year but once we did the big plays essentially dried up, we were ineffective at the wide zone so they weren't working anyways but expect us to ramp it up next year with another spring under our belt. Also I expect our OL to be more athletic this year and should be better suited to it.

I also read an article recently that was discussing how everyone in the NFL wants to replicate the McVay system but the limiting factor is that there are a not enough OL coaches that know the system and can properly teach the techniques. Bringing in Yenser who spent 3 years with the 49ers means that we will have a OL coach who can teach the system where as Wolford was likely having to learn the system on the job.

So in total I think an additional spring, increased athleticism on the OL, Increased workload for McClain, and a OL coach that knows the system will mean the Outside zone will be our bread and butter next season, which should mean the Play action deep shots and big plays will be back on the menu as well.

 

[MoonshineMafia]

• In the NFL, each hash mark is 70’ 9” from the closest sideline. That makes the two rows of hash marks 18’ 6” apart.
• In college, the hash marks are closer to the sidelines. The hash marks are 60 feet from the nearest sideline, making the two rows of hash marks 40 feet apart.

How does that affect the game? For one, college place-kickers (if they’re kicking from a hash mark), have a tougher angle (and kick) than a pro kicker. And when the ball is marked on a hash mark in college, the offensive team has less in-bounds territory on one side.

In the pros, the closer hash marks give a team more field to work with.

This is an often overlooked part of the conversation, Coen even said early in the year it took him time to adjust. In essence it gives the defense less ground to cover on the backside and allows them to "cheat" to the open side of the field. This takes away one of the advantages to the wide zone in making defenses react and over flow. I think we see a hybrid that Coen and staff worked and adapted throughout the season last year.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

• In the NFL, each hash mark is 70’ 9” from the closest sideline. That makes the two rows of hash marks 18’ 6” apart.
• In college, the hash marks are closer to the sidelines. The hash marks are 60 feet from the nearest sideline, making the two rows of hash marks 40 feet apart.

How does that affect the game? For one, college place-kickers (if they’re kicking from a hash mark), have a tougher angle (and kick) than a pro kicker. And when the ball is marked on a hash mark in college, the offensive team has less in-bounds territory on one side.

In the pros, the closer hash marks give a team more field to work with.

This is an often overlooked part of the conversation, Coen even said early in the year it took him time to adjust. In essence it gives the defense less ground to cover on the backside and allows them to "cheat" to the open side of the field. This takes away one of the advantages to the wide zone in making defenses react and over flow. I think we see a hybrid that Coen and staff worked and adapted throughout the season last year.

Yep that and his move to more inside zone all rounded into form at about the exact same time our offense really took off. Not a coincidence.

 

[gamecockcat]

From the articles I've read (and I don't know if they're accurate), it seems like every offensive scheme incorporates at least a few plays/looks for both inside and outside zone. Obviously, the majority of the plays will be either one of the other for most teams but they generally have a few plays of the other - is that correct? Also, one article mentioned some power/gap concepts that a lot of teams use in short yardage and goal line situations which are different from both inside and outside zones.

I'm learning from this thread - thank you.

 

[K_TIME]

The few differences in inside zone vs. outside zone as I see it

1. You want OL that can move laterally, while strong enough to engage in blocking at LOS and then pivot upfield to scrape off for LB at next level. Literally at times, you're first 2 steps many times are not upfield into a DL...but sideways to create a wall at LOS and then try to push guys for outside zone runs. Guys like Austin Dotson...can't really excel in these schemes. Big George was another guy that was a mauler and not an outside zone OL. Of our current guys...I know Cox and Horsey will be fine, Jager will fit fine....I do wonder the most for guys like Flax and RJ Adams appear to not standing out yet for this future scheme. I am assuming Goodwin's natural gifts will translate.

2. Then the RB is way different type of dude. Patience for sure is required....but man you have to run side to side of LOS and then you have to quickly accelerate once a hole happens, put a foot in ground and burst thru it. I am not going to say a guy like Benny or CRod can't play in these schemes....but for sure it's more suited for a guy like Boom, Smoke or McClain.

3. The WR will be in bunch sets a ton and have to pick and pull the outside DE/LBer. So guys like Dane Key, Barion Brown and the 2 WR transfer portal dudes....will have to get tough pick this up to block these plays at times. I assume every year we'll be picking up TE like Kattus, Dingle, Bates, etc..than can physically block the edge LBer in those HBack sets that we use all the time. To be honest, many plays will be designed to hit off hte hip of wherever the TE picks up a blocker.

My main concern shared with others is we've made a reputation for 6 years as inside zone bulldozer teams. Benny and CRod will be our 2 leading rushers in school history off of this stuff, we hardly ever get tackles for loss, keep the chains moving, etc... I'd argue outside will have more negative run plays and put you behind chains more often....but to the opposite...it makes the play action easier for QB and has to make pass protection easier as the DE have to watch for more stuff than just pinning ears back and bum rushing the RB or QB.