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In My 29 Years of Life on this Planet, I Have Never Seen This Before (Pat Adams ejected announcer).

I once tossed the Home Official Bookkeeper from the table. Every time I reported a foul on the Home Team (which Officials have to do to him), he shook his head and shot insults back at me. I warned him twice. The second time he said "You can't tell me what to do." Boom. Gone.
 
Not defending them at all but Cawood would have not argued a call with the referees, he would have just mentioned"not a good call" Those guys will get tried everywhere they go as the certainly have developed a reputation.
It would have been a bit more colorful than "not a good call" i agree the ref would not have heard it or been aware of the comment.Might have been something along the lines of"Gee folks we may be in for a long night......a terrible call on that one"
 
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The Huggins/Chuck Maschok ejections vs. Gonzaga in the NCAA tournament was hilarious. LMAO at all the UC homers I have to work with.
 
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I got 30 years on you OP, and I've never heard of that either. SMH. I would think only the police or the venue's security could order essentially a by-stander off the court, or out of the arena. Have to let the Rafter's legal team weigh in on that one. I can read a statue same as they can, but have no idea where this one would be. In the NCAA by-laws maybe.

Dont forget Roy Williams
 
Btw both Adams and Sirmons are Final Four refs. They are considered among the 'best.'
 
If he is that insecure it is time to retire. I doubt he is having any fun and the games are suffering due to his issues.
 
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Dont forget Roy Williams

LOL. Not so sure about the legalities of that one either. I guess if your being disruptive, or however it might be worded you give up the right your ticket purchase bought you, and security can remove you. I'd guess that's essentially what happened albeit on Roy's request. I don't think a coach though technically has the legal right to remove a ticket buyer. Maybe they do, I don't know. I know they can certainly remove anyone from practice they want.
 
This is certainly crossing a 1st Amendment line. The announcer should sue the NCAA for violation of his rights.

Respectfully, I'm not sure you fully understand the first amendment. You can speak out against your government without retribution from it. That is why it was established (you know, so your head won't be lobbed off by the King in England for speaking against the royals).

Related, though not by its ending, you can certainly say what you want to people outside of the government, but expect consequences because the first amendment isn't protecting you when its against a non-government entity...like a dumbass ref.
 
Respectfully, I'm not sure you fully understand the first amendment. You can speak out against your government without retribution from it. That is why it was established (you know, so your head won't be lobbed off by the King in England for speaking against the royals).

Related, though not by its ending, you can certainly say what you want to people outside of the government, but expect consequences because the first amendment isn't protecting you when its against a non-government entity...like a dumbass ref.

I understand it perfectly well but question your interpretation. Except for libel or inciting some illegal activity the freedom of the press is absolute. It isn't limited to government but guarantees the right to criticize those in power in any function. And I quote from the First Amendment Center, "Unless restricted by a valid prior restraint (which is rare), the news media are free to publish any information or opinion they desire."
 
I say we hire a hit man to kill em both. Can Rafters ring up that kind of coin?
Watch what you say! If they somehow wound up dead you'd be at the top of the suspect list and presumed guilty as a member of BBN:cop:
 
It would have been a bit more colorful than "not a good call" i agree the ref would not have heard it or been aware of the comment.Might have been something along the lines of"Gee folks we may be in for a long night......a terrible call on that one"
No argument here you are right....he just wouldn't have created a scene.
 
I understand it perfectly well but question your interpretation. Except for libel or inciting some illegal activity the freedom of the press is absolute. It isn't limited to government but guarantees the right to criticize those in power in any function. And I quote from the First Amendment Center, "Unless restricted by a valid prior restraint (which is rare), the news media are free to publish any information or opinion they desire."

It is absolute with the government. You're correct.
 
I wish the NCAA would stop rewarding the refs who make it about themselves. For some reason some of the worst refs in that respect are considered to be the best officials and get assigned to Final Fours.
 
In MLB we had at least a couple of mascots ejected over the years!
 
I was at a High School game this year in which an official threw out one of the security cops. The other cops had to escort him out.
 
Adams and Sirmons refereeing the same game. Isn't that a sign of the apocalypse?

They could T each other up and throw themselves out. Pic below is a picture of the arena afterwards.

divide-by-zero3.jpg
 
This reminds me of the scene from the movie where Billy Crystal is a NBA ref and throws out both starting line ups, coaches, trainers and even Kareem Abdul Jabbar's parents or something like that. These guys are out of control. Either Pat Adams has a serious short man syndrome or something else is going on. This is just insane.
 
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People if we don't allow Adams to officiate he could end up a cop in your local town next.

Careful what you wish for.
 
Everyone needs to re-read the description of the encounter from the GB newspaper:

UWGB radio announcer Matt Menzl briefly was off the air during the game after referee Pat Adams kicked him off press row for what Menzl described as a misunderstanding.

Menzl said Adams thought he was waving him off after a call went against the Phoenix.

“I talk with my hands,” Menzl said. “I was trying to describe that we had two guys fighting for the ball, and he took it as I waved him off, like saying that’s a horrible call.

“At first he gave me a warning. Then two seconds later said, ‘I want this guy removed and I won’t start the game until he gets removed.’”

Menzl had to hand over his headset to an Oakland play-by-play announcer and went into the tunnel, where he explained the situation to UWGB athletic director Mary Ellen Gillespie and Horizon League spokesman Bill Potter.

Potter told Menzl to go back and that they’d deal with it.

“I maybe missed actual game action, a couple minutes,” Menzl said.


To reiterate, the radio announcer was not complaining about the call. Pat Adams completely misinterpreted what was happening and decided to interject himself into the situation. It was inappropriate, petty, and sanctionable. Just as I suggested when he changed the outcome of the A&M game, I think this league should fine Adams exactly the same amount that he was paid to officiate the game. The same penalty should be assessed for each game where he loses control and does something that affects the integrity of the outcome or the reputation of the sport.

This is the single best way to eliminate Adams and other "veteran" officials who should have been pushed out long ago. The independent contractor system used to assign referees is broken, so there's no way that the problem will go away on its own. But this approach will ensure problem officials no longer have any incentive to continue to request assignments. Either they'll stop asking for work, or they'll change they way they do their jobs. Money talks.

More generally, there is simply no justification for Adams to continue to be employed as a sports official at any level. He's repeatedly demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the role of the referee, and it's obvious that he doesn't have the temperment to handle the often emotional circumstances involving highly competitive people that are a huge part of the game.

Adams might be a great guy. I'm sure there's a job out there that he can do well. But there's one thing we know for sure--He's terrible at his current job, and his incompetence is an embarrassment to the NCAA and the conferences who continue to employ him. Enough is enough.
 
I saw a Cub game a few years ago. The fans sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, and a special guest in the broadcat booth always leads the fans in singing. In this game, the guest made some snide remark about the home plate umpire during the song. The ump looked up to the broadcast booth and ejected the guest from the park.

I would demand a refund and a little extra money for the time I spent watching the game if that happened to me
 
Why was Karl Hess fired from calling ACC games a while back? It was something asinine like this. I have seen him doing UK games again this season.
 
Everyone needs to re-read the description of the encounter from the GB newspaper:

UWGB radio announcer Matt Menzl briefly was off the air during the game after referee Pat Adams kicked him off press row for what Menzl described as a misunderstanding.

Menzl said Adams thought he was waving him off after a call went against the Phoenix.

“I talk with my hands,” Menzl said. “I was trying to describe that we had two guys fighting for the ball, and he took it as I waved him off, like saying that’s a horrible call.

“At first he gave me a warning. Then two seconds later said, ‘I want this guy removed and I won’t start the game until he gets removed.’”

Menzl had to hand over his headset to an Oakland play-by-play announcer and went into the tunnel, where he explained the situation to UWGB athletic director Mary Ellen Gillespie and Horizon League spokesman Bill Potter.

Potter told Menzl to go back and that they’d deal with it.

“I maybe missed actual game action, a couple minutes,” Menzl said.


To reiterate, the radio announcer was not complaining about the call. Pat Adams completely misinterpreted what was happening and decided to interject himself into the situation. It was inappropriate, petty, and sanctionable. Just as I suggested when he changed the outcome of the A&M game, I think this league should fine Adams exactly the same amount that he was paid to officiate the game. The same penalty should be assessed for each game where he loses control and does something that affects the integrity of the outcome or the reputation of the sport.

This is the single best way to eliminate Adams and other "veteran" officials who should have been pushed out long ago. The independent contractor system used to assign referees is broken, so there's no way that the problem will go away on its own. But this approach will ensure problem officials no longer have any incentive to continue to request assignments. Either they'll stop asking for work, or they'll change they way they do their jobs. Money talks.

More generally, there is simply no justification for Adams to continue to be employed as a sports official at any level. He's repeatedly demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the role of the referee, and it's obvious that he doesn't have the temperment to handle the often emotional circumstances involving highly competitive people that are a huge part of the game.

Adams might be a great guy. I'm sure there's a job out there that he can do well. But there's one thing we know for sure--He's terrible at his current job, and his incompetence is an embarrassment to the NCAA and the conferences who continue to employ him. Enough is enough.

The only way to get rid of a bad ref is to not hire him. If you have provisions for fining a ref for a bad call, the only refs you will get will be the headcases.
 
I understand it perfectly well but question your interpretation. Except for libel or inciting some illegal activity the freedom of the press is absolute. It isn't limited to government but guarantees the right to criticize those in power in any function. And I quote from the First Amendment Center, "Unless restricted by a valid prior restraint (which is rare), the news media are free to publish any information or opinion they desire."

I think it is better to quote the 1st Amendment itself, "Congress shall make no law..."

The first Amendment protects the people (and press) from states and the federal government by making it unconstitutional for those governments to make laws that would punish speech. There are exceptions to this, as you listed, but otherwise that freedom is absolute. In this case, there was no action by the government, so there would be no 1st Amendment violation.
 
Consider this thread, the "worst calls" thread and the officiating this season. Then scroll down to the Final Four info to see who last years referees were. Three names might sound familiar. Why they are familiar is interesting considering the game results described the past few seasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament

Adams, Higgins & Sirmons were all referees in Saturday's 2015 Final Four games. I know they're not perfect humans but how interesting is it that these 3 men have been involved in big game changing calls the past several years?
 
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Everyone needs to re-read the description of the encounter from the GB newspaper:

UWGB radio announcer Matt Menzl briefly was off the air during the game after referee Pat Adams kicked him off press row for what Menzl described as a misunderstanding.

Menzl said Adams thought he was waving him off after a call went against the Phoenix.

“I talk with my hands,” Menzl said. “I was trying to describe that we had two guys fighting for the ball, and he took it as I waved him off, like saying that’s a horrible call.

“At first he gave me a warning. Then two seconds later said, ‘I want this guy removed and I won’t start the game until he gets removed.’”

Menzl had to hand over his headset to an Oakland play-by-play announcer and went into the tunnel, where he explained the situation to UWGB athletic director Mary Ellen Gillespie and Horizon League spokesman Bill Potter.

Potter told Menzl to go back and that they’d deal with it.

“I maybe missed actual game action, a couple minutes,” Menzl said.


To reiterate, the radio announcer was not complaining about the call. Pat Adams completely misinterpreted what was happening and decided to interject himself into the situation. It was inappropriate, petty, and sanctionable. Just as I suggested when he changed the outcome of the A&M game, I think this league should fine Adams exactly the same amount that he was paid to officiate the game. The same penalty should be assessed for each game where he loses control and does something that affects the integrity of the outcome or the reputation of the sport.

This is the single best way to eliminate Adams and other "veteran" officials who should have been pushed out long ago. The independent contractor system used to assign referees is broken, so there's no way that the problem will go away on its own. But this approach will ensure problem officials no longer have any incentive to continue to request assignments. Either they'll stop asking for work, or they'll change they way they do their jobs. Money talks.

More generally, there is simply no justification for Adams to continue to be employed as a sports official at any level. He's repeatedly demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the role of the referee, and it's obvious that he doesn't have the temperment to handle the often emotional circumstances involving highly competitive people that are a huge part of the game.

Adams might be a great guy. I'm sure there's a job out there that he can do well. But there's one thing we know for sure--He's terrible at his current job, and his incompetence is an embarrassment to the NCAA and the conferences who continue to employ him. Enough is enough.

I actually think he'd be a great high school teacher and would welcome him here in Memphis. He'd be a no nonsense type and we need them badly.
 
Hess is a duke alum. Can't see having anyone of such a background calling ANY games, ACC or not.
 
The only way to get rid of a bad ref is to not hire him. If you have provisions for fining a ref for a bad call, the only refs you will get will be the headcases.

Well, neither your solution nor mine is realistic because the conferences actually would have to do something. Instead, officials are independent contractors, and the conferences traditionally have exercised very little control over who gets chosen to work basketball games.

That's actually my entire point. We have no choice but to start thinking outside the box because the system won't allow the problem to resolve itself.

Also, I completely disagree with the conclusion that "the only refs you will get will be headcases" if you fine them for making truly terrible decisions. It's actually far more reasonable to conclude that the opposite would happen. For instance, if the police are cracking down on traffic violations in a particular area of town, are people suddenly more likely to drive through that area running stop signs and speeding? Obviously no.

Similar principle here. We're watching, and you will be held accountable. If you don't like it, you don't have to work here. There are plenty of other roads you can take and plenty of other conferences where you can apply. Simple enough.
 
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I saw a Cub game a few years ago. The fans sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, and a special guest in the broadcat booth always leads the fans in singing. In this game, the guest made some snide remark about the home plate umpire during the song. The ump looked up to the broadcast booth and ejected the guest from the park.

I think that may have been former Chicago Bear and pro wrestler Steve "Mongo" McMichael
 
Adams is so pathetic and weak that he can't tolerate nondescript hand waiving? How absurd. It's interesting that a Horizon league official sent him back to work. Enough is enough with these Napoleonic little tyrants. I wonder if the NCAA is going to reward their pathetic behavior by having them deep into the NCAAT again. That is the sad part. The idiots who run the conferences and the NCAA are causing this nonsense by rewarding it. Rewarding bad behavior always makes it worse.

Even if the announcer DID "wave him off" - that's still pretty pathetic. The announcer had no say in how the game was played - he was just there to give the play by play.
Adams and Sirmons both are examples of what a little bit of power can do to people. Neither should be allowed to officiate ever again
 
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Wait wait wait... I'm sorry, but I would need to hear what on earth was said/happened before passing judgement on this. 99.9999 percent of the time the announcers do nothing to get the refs attention... so what happened here that GOT it?

Not defending the refs, necessarily, but you've got to know what happened before you can really pass judgment.
 
why was he allowed to come back? i thought he was ejected. so a ref is allowed to eject third parties but not to keep them from coming back. ok.
 
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Wait wait wait... I'm sorry, but I would need to hear what on earth was said/happened before passing judgement on this. 99.9999 percent of the time the announcers do nothing to get the refs attention... so what happened here that GOT it?

Not defending the refs, necessarily, but you've got to know what happened before you can really pass judgment.

Not really unless you think the officials also should be throwing fans out when they criticize a call.

This is my biggest problem with the way Adams behaves. He truly doesn't understand his role as an official. No one buys tickets to watch him bully people who aren't even participating in the game. Either learn your role or GTFO immediately.
 
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