If JVC coached here 19 years

[BlueCephus]

If he coached here 19 years and had:

2 National Titles
4 Final Fours
8 out of 19 Tournaments exited in the first or second round of the tournament
Had a # 1 seed 10 times and made it to the F4 3 times when having that #1 seed

Would you conside that success? Failue? Meh?

 

[ukcatz12]

Without looking, is this Bill Self's resume at Kansas?

 

[NociHTTP]

 

[bbncal02]

Without looking, is this Bill Self's resume at Kansas?

Yep.

 

[BlueBomb]

Well, if the accomplishments were all front-loaded and the last four years were complete $hit, then no.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I don't think UK fans would be happy with Selfs resume. He is a king in the regular season and he often has major letdowns in March. I think we'd be pretty fed up by now.. certainly in 2019 before that 2nd title.

 

[CatPhight]

One of those titles was cal's collapse at memphis, where they couldn't throw a free throw into the pacific ocean while standing on a pier.

Fundamentally flawed then and now.

 

[bbncal02]

Well, if the accomplishments were all front-loaded and the last four years were complete $hit, then no.

That's the thing. Before Self got that second title, he was in ways looking worse than Cal (except for the h2h) And remember.....KU was cheating their behinds off during that period.

 

[ukcatz12]

I don't think UK fans would be happy with Selfs resume. He is a king in the regular season and he often has major letdowns in March. I think we'd be pretty fed up by now.. certainly in 2019 before that 2nd title.

I think Bill Self is the best coach in the country right now, and I think his resume is exactly what happens when you have average luck in the tournament. People still don't realize how hard it is to win it all and how much luck plays a role. Self's run at Kansas has been very successful and it's exactly what blue blood programs should expect when they have a top 5 coach.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

That's the thing. Before Self got that second title, he was in ways looking worse than Cal (except for the h2h) And remember.....KU was cheating their behinds off during that period.

He wasn't just "looking" worse, he WAS worse. Really the only thing he has now is the 2nd title and better regular seasons. But he had worse march letdowns, worse Final4s, E8s and S16s. Oh, and he did this while cheating no less lol.

If Cal were to win a title this year, or even add another F4 if Self doesn't, it's a wrap on this discussion..

 

[BlueCephus]

That's the thing. Before Self got that second title, he was in ways looking worse than Cal (except for the h2h) And remember.....KU was cheating their behinds off during that period.

Good thing he got that title since he's exited in the first weekend the other 3 of the last four years. I am not touting Cal or dissing Self, it's just hard unless your Tom Brady.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I think Bill Self is the best coach in the country right now, and I think his resume is exactly what happens when you have average luck in the tournament. People still don't realize how hard it is to win it all and how much luck plays a role. Self's run at Kansas has been very successful and it's exactly what blue blood programs should expect when they have a top 5 coach.

I agree with the luck portion. But I've been saying that about Cals shortcomings in the tournament as well.

That said, the early upsets are egregious.. Bently, Bucknell, Stanford, UNI.. if HALF your seasons of being a top5 team in the nation, end with not even a sweet16.. that's not good.

One might make the point that all these wins Kansas seems to be given for playing in AFH, are causing them to be a little over valued come March.

 

[bbncal02]

I agree with the luck portion. But I've been saying that about Cals shortcomings in the tournament as well.

That said, the early upsets are egregious.. Bently, Bucknell, Stanford, UNI.. if HALF your seasons of being a top5 team in the nation, end with not even a sweet16.. that's not good.

One might make the point that all these wins Kansas seems to be given for playing in AFH, are causing them to be a little over valued come March.

The only KU team I've watched that I was like, "Oh dang....they good" was that one we beat in 2012. And maybe the one in 2019-2020 that didn't get to make a title run.

 

[NociHTTP]

I think Bill Self is the best coach in the country right now, and I think his resume is exactly what happens when you have average luck in the tournament. People still don't realize how hard it is to win it all and how much luck plays a role. Self's run at Kansas has been very successful and it's exactly what blue blood programs should expect when they have a top 5 coach.

I think there's a difference between luck and poor playing / coaching. With all the talent Cal has had on his teams bad luck isn't really the problem. You still have to coach the games, he's not a good bench coach. Some of it too may have been other underperformers on the staff. I tend to think it's more bad luck when you run into a buzzsaw. Rarely is it that going to happen when you're noticeably more talented than the other teams on a consistent basis.

 

[CB3UK]

Only 4 Final Fours in 19 yrs gives me alot of pause

 

[bbncal02]

I think there's a difference between luck and poor playing / coaching. With all the talent Cal has had on his teams bad luck isn't really the problem. You still have to coach the games, he's not a good bench coach. Some of it too may have been other underperformers on the staff. I tend to think it's more bad luck when you run into a buzzsaw. Rarely is it that going to happen when you're noticeably more talented than the other teams on a consistent basis.

Bad luck also deals with shots not falling too. 2016 comes to mind when we couldn't buy a bucket vs IU. Or against WVU in 2009 when they hit everything and we couldn't find the ocean.

 

[CatPhight]

Bad luck also deals with shots not falling too. 2016 comes to mind when we couldn't buy a bucket vs IU. Or against WVU in 2009 when they hit everything and we couldn't find the ocean.

84 was the worst luck imaginable...I remember hearing Joe B saying it was like a physicist from Georgetown deployed an invisible deflector shield around the basket in the 2nd half...it was unreal...

 

[ukcatz12]

I think there's a difference between luck and poor playing / coaching. With all the talent Cal has had on his teams bad luck isn't really the problem. You still have to coach the games, he's not a good bench coach. Some of it too may have been other underperformers on the staff. I tend to think it's more bad luck when you run into a buzzsaw. Rarely is it that going to happen when you're noticeably more talented than the other teams on a consistent basis.

I think there's more luck both ways during Cal's tenure than people realize. That 2011 run with Brandon Knight was full of luck in our favor. The last minute shot against Princeton, the game winner against OSU. Yes making those shots is skill, but from a coaching point of view it's luck. You put guys in positions to make shots and they either fall or they don't. We could have just as easily lost to a 13 seed in the first round as we did make the Final Four.

Aaron Harrison's run of giant shots in '14 was luck in our favor. The uncalled shot clock violation against Wisconsin in '15 was bad luck against us. The reffing in '17 against UNC and Luke Maye hitting the game winner was bad luck against us.

I honestly think if you evenly distribute the luck during Cal's tenure you take one or two Final Fours from the first half of his time here and add one or two to the back half. It would look a lot more even. Truth is we were one shot away from a Final Four in '17 and '19, just like we made the Final Four due to single shots in '11 and '14.

 

[Boyd94]

Did Self ever have a 9 win season?

 

[bbncal02]

84 was the worst luck imaginable...I remember hearing Joe B saying it was like a physicist from Georgetown deployed an invisible deflector shield around the basket in the 2nd half...it was unreal...

I was all of 6 months old, so I don't recall that one. But Dad talked about it often, like so:

 

[bbncal02]

Did Self ever have a 9 win season?

Worse actually.

He had a 6 win season.

His first year at OR he went 6-21.

Know that's not the same, but had to object on technical grounds.

 

[ukcatz12]

Did Self ever have a 9 win season?

You're still that traumatized about that season? It happened, it's over, it had zero long term impact on the program. Time to move on.

 

[Boyd94]

You're still that traumatized about that season? It happened, it's over, it had zero long term impact on the program. Time to move on.

Just asking a question. You seem more concerned than I am.

 

[Boyd94]

Worse actually.

He had a 6 win season.

His first year at OR he went 6-21.

Know that's not the same, but had to object on technical grounds.

Touche. You got me there.

 

[CatPhight]

I was all of 6 months old, so I don't recall that one. But Dad talked about it often, like so:

We had a nice lead in the first half and were playing good, but then we shot something like 3 of 35 in the second half...multiple shots rimming out...

 

[IUfanBorden]

Only 4 Final Fours in 19 yrs gives me alot of pause

What about 6 in 42?

Its not that easy.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The only KU team I've watched that I was like, "Oh dang....they good" was that one we beat in 2012. And maybe the one in 2019-2020 that didn't get to make a title run.

A certain Kansas poster will be here to tell us how the COVID Kansas team was their best one lol. Really surprised they didn't hang a banner.

 

[bbncal02]

We had a nice lead in the first half and were playing good, but then we shot something like 3 of 35 in the second half...multiple shots rimming out...

Yeah, Dad hated talking about that game. I'm sure I would've been losing my mind. Can't imagine how Joe B felt.

 

[bbncal02]

A certain Kansas poster will be here to tell us how the COVID Kansas team was their best one lol. Really surprised they didn't hang a banner.

I mean they only lost 3 games that year. Think we could have had a shot at it too. We will just never know.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Thing with Self is----Hes had no losing seasons. Has never missed the NCAAT....Hasnt had close to the talent Cal has had.

He took Tulsa to the Elite 8...

Since 2001----first P5 job(Illinois), hes coached in 22 NCAAT's----10 of those he went to the E8... If you throw in his 3 years at tulsa, 11 of the 24 NCAAT hes been in, hes went to the E8...Almost half the time, hes getting to the E8. Thats pretty impressive.

Dont like KU...Really do not care for Self----But hes very, very good.

 

[BigCat241]

A certain Kansas poster will be here to tell us how the COVID Kansas team was their best one lol. Really surprised they didn't hang a banner.

That team was overated from what I remember. I thought Baylor was the better of the two that season. Those Kansas teams with devonte Graham, Malik Newman, and a couple of others were their real good teams imo

 

[IUfanBorden]

Yeah, Dad hated talking about that game. I'm sure I would've been losing my mind. Can't imagine how Joe B felt.

Never in my life have I seen a game change so drastically. UK was the best team IMO

 

[UKBB4Ever]

Cal is a better coach than Self.

 

[IUfanBorden]

That team was overated from what I remember. I thought Baylor was the better of the two that season. Those Kansas teams with devonte Graham, Malik Newman, and a couple of others were their real good teams imo

Not sure they were overrated....They were 29-3. Split with Baylor. Lost to Duke by 2 and @ Villanova by 1.

Azubuke was a monster...Agbaji was a very good soph...Dotson was 5*, MAA. Averaged 18ppg, 1st team B12. MCCormack, another 5^, averaged 6ppg as a frosh.

That was a really good team. Possibly could have won it all.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Self would never have been given a chance to win the 2nd title here. He would have been fired well before that.

I want cal gone yesterday and think he should have been fired after the st Pete loss, coupled with the 9 win season year before.

This is UK, not KU. Cal may coach here 19 seasons and if so I predict he still has 1 title and 4 final fours.

 

[Fox2monk]

He wasn't just "looking" worse, he WAS worse. Really the only thing he has now is the 2nd title and better regular seasons. But he had worse march letdowns, worse Final4s, E8s and S16s. Oh, and he did this while cheating no less lol.

If Cal were to win a title this year, or even add another F4 if Self doesn't, it's a wrap on this discussion..

Yup but he’s gotta get it done. Our screwjobs alone would have done it but so goes life.

 

[megablue]

One of those titles was cal's collapse at memphis, where they couldn't throw a free throw into the pacific ocean while standing on a pier.

Fundamentally flawed then and now.

I agree with that. Memphis was up 8 points with 2 minutes left and simply couldn't hit a damn free-throw.
It was a brutal way to lose a basketball game where they clearly outplayed Kansas.

 

[Blue Bigfoot]

You're still that traumatized about that season? It happened, it's over, it had zero long term impact on the program. Time to move on.

I'd rather just move on from the coach.

 

[Boyd94]

I agree with that. Memphis was up 8 points with 2 minutes left and simply couldn't hit a damn free-throw.
It was a brutal way to lose a basketball game where they clearly outplayed Kansas.

Should have fouled Chalmers at the end.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Self would never have been given a chance to win the 2nd title here. He would have been fired well before that.

I want cal gone yesterday and think he should have been fired after the st Pete loss, coupled with the 9 win season year before.

This is UK, not KU. Cal may coach here 19 seasons and if so I predict he still has 1 title and 4 final fours.

Why not? In Selfs first 10 years at KU....

1 title, 2 FF's and 6 Elite 8's..

Yes BBN would have gotten antsy with consecutive 2nd Round losses, but all would be forgotten because the next 3 years was E8, E8 and FF.

Cal first 10...

1 title, 4 FF's and 7 E's....1 NIT and a 2nd rd loss. Since the 2018 E8, Cal has not advanced past the Second round...had a losing record, and lost in the 1st round.

And HUH? What do youo mean by , "this is UK, not KU"?