If I could fix the OAD

[Cantwaitfor8]

Again, my point is any solution offering removing the OAD only hurts UK, why would any fan want it?

You or no one else has provided one case of how it would possibly benefit UK to not have the OAD.

Gonzaga's center may be a OAD lottery pick.

And to add to tonight - take away the horrible officiating and UK could very well be in UNC's place. It wasnt because of the OAD that we weren't there, we had the opportunity because of it.


And I think it is black and white.

Cal uses this strategy to recruit and win.

How many final fours was Cal in prior to the OAD and Derrick Rose? 1 UMass

How many FF's had UK been to since 98 and prior to the OAD? ZERO

I think you are omitting the depth of the issue. Sure there's a difference in the #3 SG (who it is I have no clue in the 17 class) and the #1 SG and same for each position. But there are Tyler Ulis' Devin Bookers... ETC ETC who are darn good college players. Its not like a top 100 guy cant play he just may have to be coached up a bit. I am in no way saying it would benefit the guys, the league, or UK specifically. But it's a bit silly to assume Cal and UK would suck without the one and done.

However, I agree with your assertion with 2 and done. I think some model which holds the guys in college for 2 years is a win for ALL of college basketball. I think you would see increase in parity with more of the blue bloods having more top talent and more fringe guys playing for other mid tier programs.

 

[barryn2000]

I'll never understand why fans think they have any right to force a kid to stay more than a year. It's his life. Paying college kids isn't the answer either...that would cause more problems.

 

[brianpoe]

I think you are omitting the depth of the issue. Sure there's a difference in the #3 SG (who it is I have no clue in the 17 class) and the #1 SG and same for each position. But there are Tyler Ulis' Devin Bookers... ETC ETC who are darn good college players. Its not like a top 100 guy cant play he just may have to be coached up a bit. I am in no way saying it would benefit the guys, the league, or UK specifically. But it's a bit silly to assume Cal and UK would suck without the one and done.

Not saying he would suck, he never sucked.

It would have been interesting to see how much improved Tyler and Booker would have been had they played an entire season as starters.

Again, I'm not doing a good enough job explaining.

Cal has taken it to the the next level with the OAD.

No one can argue the incredible success he has had versus his previous seasons, which were not bad.

But he was not an injury, bad calls, or coaching miscue away from 5 Titles either...


My point is why take us back to the pack?


These second tier guys are not nearly the talents as the others.

Look at this year's draft:

Declared for draft:
Freshmen 17
Sophs 17
Juniors 25

Not drafted:
Freshmen 3
Sophs 7
Juniors 20

 

[WitnessGreatness]

You get rid of OAD, not as many high schoolers will jump as much as OADs. Players will still be OAD but you will lose the top top top players to NBA

 

[brianpoe]

I'll never understand why fans think they have any right to force a kid to stay more than a year. It's his life. Paying college kids isn't the answer either...that would cause more problems.

No one thinks they have any right to do anything so that is such a misplaced statement.

This is a conversation about what is best for the UK basketball program regarding the OP's topic.

You want to hijack the thread then feel free.

 

[barryn2000]

No one thinks they have any right to do anything so that is such a misplaced statement.

This is a conversation about what is best for the UK basketball program regarding the OP's topic.

You want to hijack the thread then feel free.

Bullshit Brian...many of the posts mention exactly what I addressed and the OP never even mentioned UK or what's best for UK. He was speaking in general college wide.

Who made you the thread police anyway?

A Pre set cut off score would NOT allow them to enter the draft that year. From there they could return to college, or wherever, and go through the process again the next year.

Overall its a wash... 2 years would be best most likely that "fixes" some issues on both sides of the argument.

Make scholarships 2 years vs a single year. If a freshman leaves after one year the team loses that scholarship. Will definitely limit the OAD a coach takes a chance on.

What really needs fixing is the NCAA. Players need to be paid. Might not have marginal players leaving colleges too soon if they got paid to stay and improve their draft stock.

 

[brianpoe]

Bullshit Brian...many of the posts mention exactly what I addressed and the OP never even mentioned UK or what's best for UK. He was speaking in general college wide.

Who made you the thread police anyway?

Well BARRY....

I thought you were referring to me as to the timing of the post and with all of my bloviating.

I'm not debating the morality issue, just that it would hurt our team.

I know Cal wants kids paid, like Kay mentioned, I dont really have a preference on that.


And I can play thread police anytime i want.

Otherwise, how have you been?

 

[barryn2000]

Well BARRY....

I thought you were referring to me as to the timing of the post and with all of my bloviating.

I'm not debating the morality issue, just that it would hurt our team.

I know Cal wants kids paid, like Kay mentioned, I dont really have a preference on that.


And I can play thread police anytime i want.

Otherwise, how have you been?

No...I didn't quote anyone, wasn't addressing yours or anyone's post, just speaking in general. I actually agree with your perspective on impact to UK.

I just believe in freedom and liberty....and the comment about 18 year olds going to war and perhaps dying was a really good example of how I feel. Fans and inside benefactors of NCAA basketball have no right to dictate to these kids. 18 = legal adult, meaning they have the legal right to make bad decisions.

NBA is a whole different thing...as an association they can legally set rules.

I'm doing fine...sticking around the board after the end of the season a little longer than usual.

 

[brianpoe]

No...I didn't quote anyone, wasn't addressing yours or anyone's post, just speaking in general. I actually agree with your perspective on impact to UK.

I just believe in freedom and liberty....and the comment about 18 year olds going to war and perhaps dying was a really good example of how I feel. Fans and inside benefactors of NCAA basketball have no right to dictate to these kids. 18 = legal adult, meaning they have the legal right to make bad decisions.

NBA is a whole different thing...as an association they can legally set rules.

I'm doing fine...sticking around the board after the end of the season a little longer than usual.

Sticking around longer than I should as well.

I joined the military at 18, so I get it.

Other than this morality issue, I just dont understand a fan of UK wanting to do away with our benefit.

Have a great summer.

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

No...I didn't quote anyone, wasn't addressing yours or anyone's post, just speaking in general. I actually agree with your perspective on impact to UK.

I just believe in freedom and liberty....and the comment about 18 year olds going to war and perhaps dying was a really good example of how I feel. Fans and inside benefactors of NCAA basketball have no right to dictate to these kids. 18 = legal adult, meaning they have the legal right to make bad decisions.

NBA is a whole different thing...as an association they can legally set rules.

I'm doing fine...sticking around the board after the end of the season a little longer than usual.

One thing with that stance... There are certain prerequisites which have to be met to perform many occupations within our society. Thankfully, I might add as no one wants a high school kid no matter how brilliant working in your local neurosurgery unit. If the NBA wants to set said prerequisite to be one year or two years of college (or maybe dare I say some sort of degree) then so be it. It's their rules and the players aren't being forced into anything. They can simply choose to not play said sport for said league or go overseas etc...

 

[Chuckinden]

Well BARRY....

I thought you were referring to me as to the timing of the post and with all of my bloviating.

I'm not debating the morality issue, just that it would hurt our team.

I know Cal wants kids paid, like Kay mentioned, I dont really have a preference on that.


And I can play thread police anytime i want.

Otherwise, how have you been?

"Bloviating"????? I had to look that up.....

 

[wobycat]

I agree that any adult aged person should be able to apply for a job no matter if it's for 5 bucks an hour or 20,000 an hour, I just think the interview process should have multiple steps.

 

[barryn2000]

One thing with that stance... There are certain prerequisites which have to be met to perform many occupations within our society. Thankfully, I might add as no one wants a high school kid no matter how brilliant working in your local neurosurgery unit. If the NBA wants to set said prerequisite to be one year or two years of college (or maybe dare I say some sort of degree) then so be it. It's their rules and the players aren't being forced into anything. They can simply choose to not play said sport for said league or go overseas etc...

Like I said in the post you quoted, NBA is a whole different thing....and not college BB fans and benefactors. I'm quite fine with none, 1, 2 - and done if the NBA does that. It's for the same reason....freedom and liberty. The NBA is an association with members. They can place prerequisites on membership. The NCAA is a association of schools and have a financial gain in forcing kids to work for them.

 

[brianpoe]

I agree that any adult aged person should be able to apply for a job no matter if it's for 5 bucks an hour or 20,000 an hour, I just think the interview process should have multiple steps.

Every employer has a
right to hiring requirements.

18 year olds don't really qualify for age discrimination or have any rights to a sports organization.

Clarett tried and lost in court if you remember?

I understand the position from a moral belief standing, although @Cantwaitfor8 basically dismantled that argument.

As to the Cats I'm OAD or preferably 2AD.

 

[EliteBlue]

I am glad so many here care about the 18 year old getting paid as early as possible.

As for me, I will remain selfish and want them all at UK even if just for one year...

The abhorrent thought of making an 18 year old attend college and live away from home for at least one year supervised, instead of sending them straight from high school to the league and the money and the lifestyle impact that only a very very few can manage properly... I must be a horrible person.

Give me 2AD and our title every other year - besides I have yet to hear any of our NBA guys regret their time at UK, as well as the college family and fans they will have forever.

Solid post.

I personally think it should be like college baseball but instead of 3 years it should be you can go out of HS but if you go to college it should be 2 years mando. And you can put your name in the draft.

 

[barryn2000]

I agree that any adult aged person should be able to apply for a job no matter if it's for 5 bucks an hour or 20,000 an hour, I just think the interview process should have multiple steps.

And I get that...legal age or not, they are kids and could have their careers ruined by greasy agents or poor choices. I think the NCAA is too strict in it's ideas of what constitutes Pro (like Kanter). The bar needs raised a bit to allow for a kid to play non Pro but yet get some basic substance/expenses covered.

 

[brianpoe]

And I get that...legal age or not, they are kids and could have their careers ruined by greasy agents or poor choices. I think the NCAA is too strict in it's ideas of what constitutes Pro (like Kanter). The bar needs raised a bit to allow for a kid to play non Pro but yet get some basic substance/expenses covered.

That's called college...

 

[TankedCat]

I'm not sure I have an answer to this but I came away little more frustrated with the one and done thing this year.

Primarily because we're dealing with exactly what the NBA does not want - and that's immaturity. The reason the NBA has the rule is they don't want any more Kwame Browns, a guy so ill equipped to live away from home he ate Popeyes chicken 24/7 and bought a new suit , leaving the old ones crumpled on the floor because he didn't understand the concept of dry cleaning.

Don't get me wrong, we've been lucky, good or both with the kids we get here - so far we've never had an embarrassing moment or criminal act with our OADs wearing the UK uniform, and by and large they've been great representatives of the University and the Kentucky uniform. And hopefully their experience at UK translates to living the NBA grind which I'm sure the NBA appreciates.

But watching that UCLA post game press conference and the one leading up to UNC, it hit me - D'Aaron Fox has nothing left to prove.
I can hear the keyboards lighting up right now as I type this but I believe it, if your goal is the NBA, then in this case , after the UCLA game, Fox did all he needed to do - he just showed the world he was better than Lonzo Ball. Its only human nature after that to have a let down - even if you say all the right things, even if your heart /head don't want it to end, once you hit that mark in your mind saying you've made it, you lose something. If D'Aaron Fox came back for a second year, he'd have the feeling to drive him all year. Surround him with talent and he scorches every team he faces in the tourney.

That's the immaturity of the OADs we have to deal with, and I really wish we could deal with it better. Cal says it all the time "they're freshmen" and as much as we want to say they aren't by the time tourney time comes around I'm not sure there is anything you can do to mentally prepare them for 6 games, each one in theory getting progressively harder with more intensity, more pressure and a bigger spotlight.

I don't want to change the OAD system, but I do believe its not enough. I'm never going to get tired of winning big games and taking our shot, but I think the reality is we're not going to win championships with the OAD system any more than if we pushed for a more balanced veteran team.

But we own the OAD, we need to embrace it and always remember that this system has a limited shelf life for UK. When Cal leaves - and that might be as soon as 3 years from now, then this system leaves with him.

As far as the kids themselves in jumping to the league, they always have the Brenden Jennings route. China is the second largest payday for professional ballers and any kid that is a OAD can land a 6 figure income playing a year if they don't want to go to college.

The reality is however that a program like UK, Kansas, Duke, etc., has the connections and can showcase a kid better than any Shanghai Dragons team. So I don't see much interest in this rule changing. Its mutually beneficial to the college programs and the NBA and the payday is worth it to the kids to go to an 8am class for 7 months and bang college girls on the weekend.

 

[barryn2000]

That's called college...

And Kanter...do you agree with the NCAA?

"A few years ago, as a 16-year-old kid in his native Turkey, Kanter played in limited action for professional team Fenerbahce Ulker to get experience against the best his country had to offer. Having dreams of playing at the high school and college level in the states, Kanter and his family took the minimum amount of money to cover expenses necessary for him to participate at that level of play and were open about it. Enes wanted to preserve his eligibility by only taking the amount necessary to play. He was offered a contract by Fenerbahce Ulker and Greek powerhouse Olympiacos, but turned it down in favor of pursuing his dream in America."

 

[brianpoe]

And Kanter...do you agree with the NCAA?

"A few years ago, as a 16-year-old kid in his native Turkey, Kanter played in limited action for professional team Fenerbahce Ulker to get experience against the best his country had to offer. Having dreams of playing at the high school and college level in the states, Kanter and his family took the minimum amount of money to cover expenses necessary for him to participate at that level of play and were open about it. Enes wanted to preserve his eligibility by only taking the amount necessary to play. He was offered a contract by Fenerbahce Ulker and Greek powerhouse Olympiacos, but turned it down in favor of pursuing his dream in America."

I was being facetious.

Kanter was royally screwed.

That was all Emmert.

If you remember a kid a WVU had a similar situation but only had to sit a few games.

 

[barryn2000]

I was being facetious.

Kanter was royally screwed.

That was all Emmert.

If you remember a kid a WVU had a similar situation but only had to sit a few games.

Well....that's all I'm saying. I don't want kids going to some development league and playing for hotel and food expenses for years versus college. I'm just saying there needs to be a better definition of Pro