If I could fix the OAD

[wobycat]

Heres how I would fix the OAD from an NBA perspective.

Every year, after college basketball was officially over, I would hold a camp before the draft. I would have some agility, wonderlick tests, and some games, etc.

Any eligible player, HIGH Scool included, could attend camp by INVITE only. Each team's GM would be allowed a certain amount of invites based upon their needs. Example, let's say a team thinks Willis could be valuable to their team, they can use an invite for him and he would be allowed to participate.

After the camp, the players are scored. A Pre set cut off score would NOT allow them to enter the draft that year. From there they could return to college, or wherever, and go through the process again the next year.

 

[bthaunert]

If I was in charge, I would get rid of it and let players enter straight out of High School.

 

[BlueBomb]

If I was in charge I'd make sure the school with the number one recruiting class each year won the NCAA Tournament.

 

[JasonS.]

Wonderlic would be amazing at an NBA combine.

 

[brianpoe]

Heres how I would fix the OAD from an NBA perspective.

Every year, after college basketball was officially over, I would hold a camp before the draft. I would have some agility, wonderlick tests, and some games, etc.

Any eligible player, HIGH Scool included, could attend camp by INVITE only. Each team's GM would be allowed a certain amount of invites based upon their needs. Example, let's say a team thinks Willis could be valuable to their team, they can use an invite for him and he would be allowed to participate.

After the camp, the players are scored. A Pre set cut off score would NOT allow them to enter the draft that year. From there they could return to college, or wherever, and go through the process again the next year.

If I was in charge, I would get rid of it and let players enter straight out of High School.

And the 2 of you would be personally responsible for making UK a S16 team at best for at least 3 years.

We didnt win it all with the John Walls and Demarcus Cousins, the WCS, KAT, Lyles, Harrisons, Ulis and Booker.

The best of the best...

Now you want us to compete against veteran squads with even less talent...?


I never will understand how people thinking UK would have been better without those guys and AD, Randle, Beldsoe and Knight.


This is just the most foolish thinking.

We complained for 10 years watching UNC and Duke get all the talent, now we do and people like you guys want to let them go to the league.


Incredible.


I would fix it by making it 2 and done, we would win a title every other year.

 

[YouKay]

What really needs fixing is the NCAA. Players need to be paid. Might not have marginal players leaving colleges too soon if they got paid to stay and improve their draft stock.

There should be some way for exceptional talents like Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett to get the rule waived. It was instituted because there were too many unexceptional players jumping straight to the NBA and floundering because they were kids who were unprepared. It put the GMs in a bind - do you pass on a kid who could be the Next Big Thing, or the next Kwame Brown? How do you know? At least in a year of college you can get a sense of the kids maturity level, coachability, skill set, etc.

 

[KA4Prez]

The solution isn't to pay players. The solution is to not force players to be here if they don't want to be. Of course, you can argue it's a "choice", but NCAA basketball is by far the best competition and biggest stage for an "amateur" basketball player to be seen.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Wonderlic would be amazing at an NBA combine.

For the low low price of 80$, Katrina and the girls can hook you up with wonderlic and any other treatment you prefer.

 

[JonathanW]

If I was in charge, I would get rid of it and let players enter straight out of High School.

I agree, that is the ethically right thing to do. To tell an 18 yr old, sure you can go die for your country, but you can't earn a living playing basketball is morally corrupt. But I also think it is reasonable for schools to also expect 2 (if not 3) years from you if you enroll there. So then the question young athletes would have to decide on is whether they are good enough to play in the NBA out of high school, or do they think it would be better for them to spend 2 years in college.

I'm not sure I agree with the OP's suggestion. Say you've got a kid that one NBA team LOVES, and the rest don't care for him. Say it's Grayson Allen, and 29 teams don't want the potential head-case, but 1 team doesn't care about that part. Why can't that team draft him in the late 1st round. Just provide each player with a summary of where the teams rate/rank them, GIVE THEM INFORMATION. For example you could provide each player with something like below:
"From the 30 teams, 2 teams think you will be drafted 16-20, 10 teams think you will go 21-25, 12 teams think you will go 26-30, 5 teams think you go 2nd 1-5, and 1 team thinks you go 2nd 11-15"
"From the 30 teams, your mean PF rank is # 7.7, your median PF rank is 8, your top PF rank was #3, and your worst PF rank was #15"
"Here is the % of players picked 2nd 1-10 the past 5 years who were offered contracts, and the % picked 2nd 11-20, and the % picked 2nd 21-30"
"Here is the projected 1st round salary structure by draft pick"

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

attend 'by invite only' is the key phrase....

 

[brianpoe]

I am glad so many here care about the 18 year old getting paid as early as possible.

As for me, I will remain selfish and want them all at UK even if just for one year...

The abhorrent thought of making an 18 year old attend college and live away from home for at least one year supervised, instead of sending them straight from high school to the league and the money and the lifestyle impact that only a very very few can manage properly... I must be a horrible person.

Give me 2AD and our title every other year - besides I have yet to hear any of our NBA guys regret their time at UK, as well as the college family and fans they will have forever.

 

[Wallins creek Cat]

For the low low price of 80$, Katrina and the girls can hook you up with wonderlic and any other treatment you prefer.

Now that's funny

 

[wobycat]

I am glad so many here care about the 18 year old getting paid as early as possible.

As for me, I will remain selfish and want them all at UK even if just for one year...

The abhorrent thought of making an 18 year old attend college and live away from home for at least one year supervised, instead of sending them straight from high school to the league and the money and the lifestyle impact that only a very very few can manage properly... I must be a horrible person.

Give me 2AD and our title every other year - besides I have yet to hear any of our NBA guys regret their time at UK, as well as the college family and fans they will have forever.

I'm not trying to be selfish but let them be evaluated. I think Kentucky benefits either way. Players like Doron lamb may end up being three to four year players.

 

[brianpoe]

I'm not trying to be selfish but let them be evaluated. I think Kentucky benefits either way. Players like Doron lamb may end up being three to four year players.

AD, TJones, John Wall, Cousins, KAT, Randle, Fox, Monk, Lyles, Harrisons, Bam, Poythress and Noel never play here...

Not a fair trade...

 

[truebluewildcat]

NBA should drop the age rule and build up the D-League with the top 20-30 high school players.

I think the Association, USA basketball, and the AAU brass should get together with the overseas basketball markets and make the option to go ball out of country more available to top talent as well.

One thing I've always advocated for is a better process for kids to go through all the steps to get feedback and not have to hire an agent. NBA should foot the bill to fly the kids around and work them out, maybe create some sort of department that handles prospects, and NCAA needs to be okay with it. That way a kid doesn't have to hire an agent until after he gets drafted, and if he doesn't get drafted he can return to school.

 

[CatEye2010]

Am I right that nation-wide only 8 players were OAD last year? If that's true, that's 8 out of over 4500 Div. 1 players. There's why you won't see much action on this any time soon. The #'s just aren't there for wholesale changes to either the NBA's business model, or the NCAA student-athlete structure. Sure, it affects a very few college teams who get those elite players, but beyond them, it's a non-issue.

 

[bthaunert]

Am I right that nation-wide only 8 players were OAD last year? If that's true, that's 8 out of over 4500 Div. 1 players. There's why you won't see much action on this any time soon. The #'s just aren't there for wholesale changes to either the NBA's business model, or the NCAA student-athlete structure. Sure, it affects a very few college teams who get those elite players, but beyond them, it's a non-issue.

14 of the 44 college guys drafted were OAD last year.

 

[GLR5555]

Make scholarships 2 years vs a single year. If a freshman leaves after one year the team loses that scholarship. Will definitely limit the OAD a coach takes a chance on.

 

[bthaunert]

And the 2 of you would be personally responsible for making UK a S16 team at best for at least 3 years.

We didnt win it all with the John Walls and Demarcus Cousins, the WCS, KAT, Lyles, Harrisons, Ulis and Booker.

The best of the best...

Now you want us to compete against veteran squads with even less talent...?


I never will understand how people thinking UK would have been better without those guys and AD, Randle, Beldsoe and Knight.


This is just the most foolish thinking.

We complained for 10 years watching UNC and Duke get all the talent, now we do and people like you guys want to let them go to the league.


Incredible.


I would fix it by making it 2 and done, we would win a title every other year.

Who says we would have less talent? We won titles when freshman weren't eligible, we won titles when guys played 4 years, we won titles when guys started going straight out of high school and we won titles when guys had to wait a year to go to the NBA. We would adapt and be just fine. I would actually make it a modified baseball rule and say you can go straight out of high school. If you don't, you have to wait 2 more years before entering the draft.

 

[brianpoe]

Who says we would have less talent? We won titles when freshman weren't eligible, we won titles when guys played 4 years, we won titles when guys started going straight out of high school and we won titles when guys had to wait a year to go to the NBA. We would adapt and be just fine. I would actually make it a modified baseball rule and say you can go straight out of high school. If you don't, you have to wait 2 more years before entering the draft.

"Who says we would have less talent?"

Than AD, John Wall, etc??? I dont know how to reply to this comment.


In Cal's first year we lose to UNC, dont win the SEC, etc., dont sniff the EE and much more bad stuff...


"we won titles when guys played 4 years, we won titles when guys started going straight out of high school and we won titles when guys had to wait a year to go to the NBA."

We hadnt won a title in 14 years before Cal.

Cal never won a title before OAD.


I am befuddled that people are in favor of taking our most distinct unfair advantage away.

So many fans do not comprehend the absolute disparity in the top elite players and the next level.

1- 10 is miles apart from 11-20 which is a much smaller stretch from 20-30 and they start running together from there.

But the elite... not even close.


Preferring that kids go straight to HS over OAD is almost anti-UK in my opinion. Cal has masterfully parlayed this into great success.

Preferring that kids go straight to HS over 2AD is definitley insanity if you are a UK fan.



I can blame Cal's coaching and injuries for the missed titles much easier than the OAD system. That is simply a weak argument when it comes to UK.

 

[wobycat]

"Who says we would have less talent?"

Than AD, John Wall, etc??? I dont know how to reply to this comment.


In Cal's first year we lose to UNC, dont win the SEC, etc., dont sniff the EE and much more bad stuff...


"we won titles when guys played 4 years, we won titles when guys started going straight out of high school and we won titles when guys had to wait a year to go to the NBA."

We hadnt won a title in 14 years before Cal.

Cal never won a title before OAD.


I am befuddled that people are in favor of taking our most distinct unfair advantage away.

So many fans do not comprehend the absolute disparity in the top elite players and the next level.

1- 10 is miles apart from 11-20 which is a much smaller stretch from 20-30 and they start running together from there.

But the elite... not even close.


Preferring that kids go straight to HS over OAD is almost anti-UK in my opinion. Cal has masterfully parlayed this into great success.

Preferring that kids go straight to HS over 2AD is definitley insanity if you are a UK fan.



I can blame Cal's coaching and injuries for the missed titles much easier than the OAD system. That is simply a weak argument when it comes to UK.

Dude everyone would be in the same boat. Our OAD's have only produced one championship. I think my system would keep some frosh from the past. Just sayin

 

[Deli owl]

If I were in charge:
1. Great players have to stay at UK till they get their masters degree.
2. Bad players are forced to enter the draft when coach says go.
3. The NCAA would actually penalize ul and uncheat today.

 

[brian5562]

I would put the baseball rule in place. You can go pro out of High School but if you go to college you are staying for 3 years.

 

[CatEye2010]

14 of the 44 college guys drafted were OAD last year.

Thanks for the right number. It does vary year-to-year, but is usually in that range. Still a small number overall. It's only 0.3% of all Div. 1 players, and around 1% of freshmen.

 

[brianpoe]

Dude everyone would be in the same boat. Our OAD's have only produced one championship. I think my system would keep some frosh from the past. Just sayin

THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT.

We are not currently in the same boat. We have an advantage.

We were in the same boat prior to Cal, how did you like the previous 6-7 years?



"Our OAD's have only produced one championship."

Again, this is weak sauce.


John Wall, Eric Bledsoe and Demarcus Cousins did not prevent us from winning a title.
Where was PPat and Miller?

More importantly where was Cal and a timeout or multiple timeouts telling them to stop chucking 3's?

OADs got us there, didnt stop us.


In 2011, if Emmert wasnt such a prick our OAD center that was ineligible would have helped carried us to the title.

The 2011 sqaud lost all of its production the previous year minus Miller and still made the FF. Poor shooting from 3 and the FT line cost us, not the OAD's. Probably Cal's best coaching year along with this one.


2012 OADs WON US A TITLE.

2013, again we lost all of our production, lost our best player to injury and the freshman class was very weak.

Lamb (a soph) and Teague leaving early and that freshman class is the only somewhat legitimate excuse against the OAD but would you really trade the title the season before?


2014 the OADs took us to a title game.

Injuries to WCS and Randle, along with Cal not going zone earlier cost us that game, NOT the OADs.


2015 the OAD's won 38 straight. The sophomore guards didnt execute the last 4 minutes, our best defender was injured, Cal didnt call a time out and went to stall ball too early and the refs killed us. The OAD's had zero effect on us not winning the title.


2016 the veterans killed us, a OAD and Ulis carried that team. If Dakari (not a OAD) stays as he should have then 2016 is a much different squad.

2017 the OAD's improved very well and we were destroyed in the first half by the refs.
Our OAD's took us there, didnt hurt us.



So again, I think folks like you are making the wrong argument.

Complain about Cal, injuries, and refs waaaaaaaaaaay more than the talented youth who have more than dominated veteran squads since UK began the OAD strategy.

 

[brianpoe]

I would put the baseball rule in place. You can go pro out of High School but if you go to college you are staying for 3 years.

I simply cannot fathom why UK fans want kids to go straight out of HS.

Read the post above.


UK owns the OAD system, the OAD system has provided the best results in a decade along with the 90's since the early 50's.


Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing,

This is our unfair advantage.

 

[Smashcat]

I simply cannot fathom why UK fans want kids to go straight out of HS.

Read the post above.


UK owns the OAD system, the OAD system has provided the best results in a decade along with the 90's since the early 50's.


Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing, Amazing,

This is our unfair advantage.

I don't get UK fans wanting kids to bypass college either.

 

[brianpoe]

I don't get UK fans wanting kids to bypass college either.

I cannot find one UK fan give a solid reason for wanting the straight to the pros rule again that would benefit UK in any way.

I can name several teams that wish the NBA would go back to this just because of UK...

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

So if the top kids are going straight to the league you don't think Cal could sell the next tier of "college players" on coming here to realize the dream? You subtract the top talent from the class and guys who are ranked say 10-15 become the number 1 COLLEGE recruits so to speak. The college game would be watered down some. But Cal, his track record, and his proven results would still give him and UK a huge leg up with that next group... Its not like MOST high school guys aren't NBA dreaming it just their paths would be slightly different. Overall its a wash... 2 years would be best most likely that "fixes" some issues on both sides of the argument.

 

[JasonS.]

I cannot find one UK fan give a solid reason for wanting the straight to the pros rule again that would benefit UK in any way.

I can name several teams that wish the NBA would go back to this just because of UK...

Not sure we would benefit, but I'm not sure why we would be any worse off either.

We'll get our share of the best players that go to college under any system. Just as a fan of the sport, I don't think making 18 year olds who could be getting paid handsomely pretend to be college students for a few months is a good thing. That said, I don't see it changing ... we've got Gonzaga (Gonzaga!) on the brink of a national championship with a OAD leading the way.

 

[brianpoe]

So if the top kids are going straight to the league you don't think Cal could sell the next tier of "college players" on coming here to realize the dream? You subtract the top talent from the class and guys who are ranked say 10-15 become the number 1 COLLEGE recruits so to speak. The college game would be watered down some. But Cal, his track record, and his proven results would still give him and UK a huge leg up with that next group... Its not like MOST high school guys aren't NBA dreaming it just their paths would be slightly different. Overall its a wash... 2 years would be best most likely that "fixes" some issues on both sides of the argument.

It is not a wash. Not nearly a wash.

This is a total misconception.

The elite players are so far from that "next group" that it is not even funny.

Here is the issue - the other teams still have their vets that we barely beat or lose to at times.

That next group is much less talented and will not compete nearly as well.


Where is John Wall and Boogie "lite" in the 2009 next group?

I can do this annually.

Look at this year - who is the poor man's Bamba in the next group?



And again, tell me how this benefits UK in any way.

Just one reason.


I would love to debate this particular point.

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

It is not a wash. Not nearly a wash.

This is a total misconception.

The elite players are so far from that "next group" that it is not even funny.

Here is the issue - the other teams still have their vets that we barely beat or lose to at times.

That next group is much less talented and will not compete nearly as well.


Where is John Wall and Boogie "lite" in the 2009 next group?

I can do this annually.

Look at this year - who is the poor man's Bamba in the next group?



And again, tell me how this benefits UK in any way.

Just one reason.


I would love to debate this particular point.

Because no one else has wall, boogie etc etc. The next group are still the BEST Freshman entering college and Cal still plucks the best of that group. You act like we are the only school signing one and done guys. We are not... Cal would still have a track record of putting guys in the league with TONS of contacts there. We still sign #1 recruiting classes. Just minus the once a decade studs.

I think the upper tier HS guys should be invited to the combine (or even an earlier combine) and be evaluated by the NBA. If they get positive feedback fine go on and get paid. If not you enter college for two years and are again open for draft evaluation/entry. Follow the baseball model a bit.

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

Also, helps UK? removing the one and done entirely and locking up guys for 4 years helps UK if that's the lens you want to look through. Make AD stay at UK for four years with Wall Cuz etc etc... But that's about as likely as me winning the lottery when I don't even buy a ticket.

There's no decided proof that one and done ALONE gives UK this mysterious advantage you speak of. Cal's recruiting absolutely gives UK an advantage. The one and done rule? No way.

 

[brianpoe]

Because no one else has wall, boogie etc etc. The next group are still the BEST Freshman entering college and Cal still plucks the best of that group. You act like we are the only school signing one and done guys. We are not... Cal would still have a track record of putting guys in the league with TONS of contacts there. We still sign #1 recruiting classes. Just minus the once a decade studs.

I think the upper tier HS guys should be invited to the combine (or even an earlier combine) and be evaluated by the NBA. If they get positive feedback fine go on and get paid. If not you enter college for two years and are again open for draft evaluation/entry. Follow the baseball model a bit.

Again, the next tier is waaay lower.

It would take 3 years to catch up with everyone and probably 5 to become dominate again.

Baseball model is bad for UK.

Once a decade studs:
Wall
Cousins
Bledsoe
Knight
AD
Noel
Randle
Kat
Fox
Monk

all in one decade....



Please someone tell me why getting rid of the OAD will actually help UK.

 

[brianpoe]

Also, helps UK? removing the one and done entirely and locking up guys for 4 years helps UK if that's the lens you want to look through. Make AD stay at UK for four years with Wall Cuz etc etc... But that's about as likely as me winning the lottery when I don't even buy a ticket.

There's no decided proof that one and done ALONE gives UK this mysterious advantage you speak of. Cal's recruiting absolutely gives UK an advantage. The one and done rule? No way.

You cannot separate Cal's OAD recruiting strategy form the OAD rule itself.

He stated this is our strategy.


Again how does it help UK to remove the OAD?

Please provide one solid reason.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

And the 2 of you would be personally responsible for making UK a S16 team at best for at least 3 years.

We didnt win it all with the John Walls and Demarcus Cousins, the WCS, KAT, Lyles, Harrisons, Ulis and Booker.

The best of the best...

Now you want us to compete against veteran squads with even less talent...?


I never will understand how people thinking UK would have been better without those guys and AD, Randle, Beldsoe and Knight.


This is just the most foolish thinking.

We complained for 10 years watching UNC and Duke get all the talent, now we do and people like you guys want to let them go to the league.


Incredible.


I would fix it by making it 2 and done, we would win a title every other year.

This is EXACTLY what I would do, too.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

I am glad so many here care about the 18 year old getting paid as early as possible.

As for me, I will remain selfish and want them all at UK even if just for one year...

The abhorrent thought of making an 18 year old attend college and live away from home for at least one year supervised, instead of sending them straight from high school to the league and the money and the lifestyle impact that only a very very few can manage properly... I must be a horrible person.

Give me 2AD and our title every other year - besides I have yet to hear any of our NBA guys regret their time at UK, as well as the college family and fans they will have forever.

If the 2 and done rule was instituted, UK wouldn't get as many studs as they are currently getting. The playing time just wouldn't be there. I don't see UK winning the NC every other year.

However, I would still take our chances with that rule all day every day.

 

[Cantwaitfor8]

Again, the next tier is waaay lower.

It would take 3 years to catch up with everyone and probably 5 to become dominate again.

Baseball model is bad for UK.

Once a decade studs:
Wall
Cousins
Bledsoe
Knight
AD
Noel
Randle
Kat
Fox
Monk

all in one decade....



Please someone tell me why getting rid of the OAD will actually help UK.

No one is arguing it will be better for UK man. It was a solution offered and the implications of which discussed. Its not black and white as you make it seem. We lose the one and done and we suck... Not hardly. You likely have more consistent rosters with a much more typical model. Besides UNC and Gonzaga play tonight they aren't the one and done factory you make UK sound like. Looks like they are doing fine....

 

[brianpoe]

If the 2 and done rule was instituted, UK wouldn't get as many studs as they are currently getting. The playing time just wouldn't be there. I don't see UK winning the NC every other year.

However, I would still take our chances with that rule all day every day.

Not so fast my friend - we can only use the past history to project:

You are absolutely correct the number of kids wouldn't come but the quality of our teams would be vastly improved.


My UK scenario with a 2AD rule under Cal instead of OAD has us with 4 Titles and possibly 2 undefeated seasons:

2011 Wall, Bledsoe, Cousins still add Terrance Jones to replace PPat, but not Lamb. NATIONAL TITLE

2012 Jones, AD, MKG, Teague add Brad Beal or Caldwell Pope - NATIONAL TITLE

2013 AD, MKG, Teague, Brad Beal or Caldwell Pope, add Poythress to replace Jones and WCS was just a project. Dont add Noel Archie.
UNDEFEATED

2014 Alex, WCS, and everyone else we recruited exact same team. Runners Up

2015 The entire team back most still add KAT, Ulis Randle will keep Lyles away, Young will keep Booker away possibly. NATIONAL TITLE/UNDEFEATED?

2016 Ulis, KAT, Alex Add Murray, Briscoe - No Skal due to KAT Final Four (minimum)

2017 Murray, Briscoe - Add Bam, Fox, SKJ, WG No monk due to Murray Elight Eight

2018 Bam, Fox, WG, SKJ, Add DialloJV, PJ, Richards No Green due to Fox, No Bamba due to Bam Final Four (minimum)

 

[brianpoe]

No one is arguing it will be better for UK man. It was a solution offered and the implications of which discussed. Its not black and white as you make it seem. We lose the one and done and we suck... Not hardly. You likely have more consistent rosters with a much more typical model. Besides UNC and Gonzaga play tonight they aren't the one and done factory you make UK sound like. Looks like they are doing fine....

Again, my point is any solution offering removing the OAD only hurts UK, why would any fan want it?

You or no one else has provided one case of how it would possibly benefit UK to not have the OAD.

Gonzaga's center may be a OAD lottery pick.

And to add to tonight - take away the horrible officiating and UK could very well be in UNC's place. It wasnt because of the OAD that we weren't there, we had the opportunity because of it.


And I think it is black and white.

Cal uses this strategy to recruit and win.

How many final fours was Cal in prior to the OAD and Derrick Rose? 1 UMass

How many FF's had UK been to since 98 and prior to the OAD? ZERO