How today is like the end of the Tubby Smith era and how it’s not
- Thread starter bkingUK
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then be in denial of what happened that night.
even with a healthy bogans UK doesn't win that night.
some nights it just isn't your night....and that night wasn't UK's. It's that simple of a conclusion.
I don’t know why we are arguing. Doesn’t matter. I think Bogans injury changed strategy and approach of game. That’s it. And Bogans got his totals, but there is more than scoring. Guy literally hobbled the entire game at 75%
Because it's a myth that people like you continue to resurrect. If only Bogans had been 100% UK would have won.
I've seen it countless times on this board.
It's wishful thinking...and I get it. I wanted UK to win. But in watching that game Marquette was just better that night. Sometimes the team we want to win doesn't.
But to deny the facts about the game.....
Nobody knows for sure how the game would have come out. Your points are strictly offensive related. Bogans injury also screwed up our defense. Hayes had to cover Wade instead of being on Novack. Plus you don't know that Bogans might have scored more than his average. Maybe Marquette wins anyway but to assert that there was no way we were winning that game is just as wrong as to assert we certainly would if Bogans was healthy.
I’m not going to say one way or their other, but I’ve also been somewhat intrigued by the notion that Bogans injury was the main factor. Marquette played out of their minds collectively, it wasn’t the Dwayne Wade show. Hogans at 100% does change things defensively but it would have been hard to beat Marquette that night regardless. Bogans on Wade, I’m sure Wade would have still gotten his.
Fair enough points.
But let's say Bogans is fully healthy and holds Wade just below his average or to his average. UK still loses based on the other two players having career nights.
Could a healthy Bogans have scored more? That's a fair question.
Just a quick review of the season I found Bogans scored 22 at least once. That's +7 over his average. Say he gets UK still loses assuming Wade gets his 27 that night.
It'd take a lot of Bogans playing "above his head" and Wade playing "below his head" for UK to win.
I know we've all seen enough games and have played in enough games to know some nights just aren't your night.
In watching that game it just wasn't UK's night.
All I'm saying is the myth of "if we'd had a healthy Bogans" needs to be dismissed.
It wasn't happening that night for UK just as it didn't happen with a healthy 84 team against Georgetown. Some nights just ain't your night. I hate when it happens.
Wade would have to had had a very off game....presuming Novak and the other kid don't go off from three like they did.
Im not going to read the novel, but i will tell you that Tubby is the 2nd worst coach in UK history. If not for Pitino leaving him a loaded ferrari he would have never sniffed a final four in 45 years of coaching.
I mean it’s true. I think Tubby could have been a goat with more fire and will to win, but he didn’t want it like that.
Great coaches do not end up at high point. And I’ve softened on Tubby a lot.
His name hangs in the Rupp rafters. I hope that just makes you sick. I love it.
We don’t take the HOF and the jerseys serious enough to not hang a title coach in the rafters. Should he be in all reality? Not sure about that, but the way we do it yea. Adds to our accomplishments. 5 coaches to win national titles.
He should be. He is as deserving as anyone up there. Nobody that is relevant to the discussion doubts that. I have not heard an objective argument to the contrary. Just bitching and moaning from a few inconsequentials.
I wonder if its a sign of the times. I mean, it cant be because of his coaching ability. Ask Minn, Texas Tech, Memphis, high point, about that.
Not just High Point, losing miserably at High Point where the field is equal. If not for UK, he's a poor mans Tom Crean.
You hate the man's guts. I think we get it. He's not hanging up there over what he did at those other schools. But you forget that and seize on anything to demonize the guy. But he's still up there. I'm very happy it makes you sick.
Geeez, you must be a woman to exaggerate this much. I actually like him, i think he's a nice guy and seems like a great father and husband. I just think he's a below average coach that greatly benefited from a Pitino-built castle. Other coaching stops = obvious evidence.
Thats nice that fans support him so much. Goes to show you the fandom is so strong that people lose perspective.
The perspective lost is yours. Only someone with such bias could dismiss what the guy did through 2005. You are a few points away from having no leg to stand on at all. Fortunately, people that actually understand basketball make decisions on who goes in the rafters at Rupp. They ignore twisted little minds that oppose the obvious decisions.
Agreed. The Bogans excuse has been much exaggerated. Bogans played and was our leading scorer in the game. Given how Marquette dominated the game from beginning to end, I see no evidence that’s why we lost. I could buy that excuse if the game was at least close, but it wasn’t.
Here’s another reason we lost that doesn’t get mentioned enough: that Marquette was just really friggin good. They were 27-5 at the time (during a season when the Big East was stacked), had an NBA superstar in Dwyane Wade, two other guys who’d have long NBA careers in Travis Diener and Steve Novak, and a fourth dude (Jackson) who played the best game of his career.
Oddly enough, I think Marquette may’ve actually been the more talented team (we certainly had nobody near D-Wade’s talent level). We just didn’t realize it at the time.
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All Tubby would have had to do to still be coaching at UK
was to recruit UK quality players. Between Prince & Bogans to Pat Patterson, as you pointed out, many of the players, nearly all of the players, would struggle to play high D-2.
UK was still enforcing the nepotism rule which prevented him from bringing in his son to the coaching staff and his refusal to recruit the non-HS circuits did him in.
He wasn't honored for being a great basketball mind, it has to do with the times we live in. The man made UK worse than when he took over. If Pitino hadn't left him that team, he would be Tom Crean 2.0, but boring. How did he do after Pitinos players left? Couldn't even break into 1 final four. How can you suck when you have Prince, Estill, Hawkins, Fitch, etc. for multiple yrs? Tubby found a way.
The big question- If Tubby had to build UK from the ground, like he was supposed to at Memphis, how much time would we have allowed before we realized he's not good?
And why would I give a damn about what he did in Mempiss. That just shows me you are grinding an axe and have no clue what you are talking about.
Apparently you're not bright enough to read between the lines (no wonder you like him). He worthless, as a coach. If he was even halfway decent he'd find success somewhere after UK, anywhere. Ive lost track of his stops and i feel like i lose IQ points each time i converse with you. Unless you're 8, and if thats the case, i apologize.
Spoken like a biased hater with an agenda. But we already know that about you. One thing though. Don't worry about the points. Like the song says, nothing from nothing leaves nothing.
LOL.... a biased hater?? Because i call a spade a spade. You've lost any perspective with your blue tinted glasses. Smoke another Marlboro and call it a night.
So people that actually understand basketball put him in the rafters but you demonize the guy. You think you know something they do not? Of course not. You just rip on him for no reason other than bias and hatred.
Damn. You hard on Tubby. I’m not his biggest fan either, but I still think he deserves to be put in the rafters. He won a Championship. You can say they were Pitinos players, but Tubby came to Lexington and won with what he had, while Pitino had fled to Boston and was busy running that shit in the ground while coaching more of his own “players” who he didn’t win with. Pitino gets the credit for that shit in Boston lol but Tub can’t get just a little bit of credit for being present in 98?
Tubby also accomplished a 19-0 SEC reg season & conference tourney sweep in 2002-03. That was the days when the SEC regularly got 6 teams in the NCAA every year I might add. SEC sweeps don’t happen every year. We def should’ve went farther in 2004. 2005 almost had your FF you seem to think Tub needed but sometime it all about a lucky bounce here or there. It not like we were hanging Scott Rigot or David Hobbs in the rafters.
Tubby did a great job caching through that tourn. There is no guarantee anyone else would have.
If Tubby went back to Georgia they'd be NCAA Tournament contenders year in and year out. I think he is nearing the end of his coaching days though and that's why he went back to High Point to sort of come full circle. In retrospect, Georgia should have offered him the job instead of Crean.
I think Tubby was tired of the big time! I think he is actually ready to hang it up and probably has been for a few years. I don’t know that for sure but he usually has a disinterested look during games and he always looks like he could use a nap 😂! He has seen a lot of changes over the years in the game as well that prob would make most “old school” guys wanna hang it up. With Tubby it makes me wonder if it’s for his sons that he keeps doing this or maybe he would’ve done stop coaching if they had had any success at all.
I mean ya know a man who is his age, that’s had his success and coached at the places he been with having it so good that just flying to games or go see a recruit and then you go from that to High Point where your ass is riding a bus to play games again for 5-10 hours.. one way.. to play in mostly empty arenas and it’s kind of a sad thing. Maybe it’s not for Tubby but it would be for most whether they’d admit it or not. It just wasn’t suppose to end that way for Tubby..
I mean ya know a man who is his age, that’s had his success and coached at the places he been with having it so good that just flying to games or go see a recruit and then you go from that to High Point where your ass is riding a bus to play games again for 5-10 hours.. one way.. to play in mostly empty arenas and it’s kind of a sad thing. Maybe it’s not for Tubby but it would be for most whether they’d admit it or not. It just wasn’t suppose to end that way for Tubby..
I agree. He would’ve got the credit if he had went 12-20 😂 … then they’d give him credit for that team if he had a crappy season. You’d never hear about who’s players they were.
Calipari gets a lot more leeway from me because he's recruiting at a high level still and has been willing to make adjustments in staff and philosophy.
On the contrary, Smith held on to mediocre assistants for too long, his recruiting had fallen off dramatically, and had proven he could only lead 1 team to a final 4.
I'm of the opinion that if he stuck around longer, the results would have been similar to what Gillespie did. The 2005 and 2007 recruiting classes really dragged the program down.
Oh yeah I’m with you on this. When I’m defending Tubby I’m doing so because he was on the bench for that 1998 team. He done some other good things with the 2003,04,05 clubs where he was just a basket short of getting to the FF. Now, that 05 recruiting class you mention HAS got to be the worst in history of UK bball. Between Carter, Sims and Williams they might’ve got in the 200 point club 😂 as whole class 🤦🏻♂️.
Cal had us in the hunt immediately! He had made it fun again with an Elite 8 in year one. I felt like we should’ve won it all in 2010 and I’m not one of those ppl who think we should’ve won it all every yr. lol. 2011.. nobody expected that team to be playing in FF with Harrellson, Miller and Liggins of all people being a big reason. So it made it seem even bigger that we done it without Enes Kanter.
Then 2012 champs! 2013 NIT and it had some of us wondering lol, but then 2014 we struggled a lot until March but then Aaron Harrison for 3! 2015 38-1 and Cal did blow that shit. From 2016 til now has been a drop off but Cals time compared to Tubbys time is not even close for me. Cal and Tubby both might’ve gave the fans a little too much, too soon which I’m glad they did but I see why some coaches say don’t win so big, so soon. Give fans a little at a time. 😂
2005 Recruiting Class was like a Death Penalty class! 😂 I wish you hadn’t refresh my mind on that. Thank you.
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