fared if they played 3 Mac schools and Louisville every year instead of real competition? I think this props up Stoops record because he doesn't play Indiana, North Carolina, Cincinnati, Rutgers and the like out of conference.
How much better would Claiborne and Curry........
- Thread starter Boyd94
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Meh….Curry was 14-40 (26% winning percentage) in the SEC and Claiborne was 13-37 (26% winning percentage). Stoops is 34-52 (40% winning percentage).
I understand there are variables in terms of how strong the SEC is at certain times, but that’s the best way to compare imo.
And UC and Rutgers were MAC level competition back in the day.
I understand there are variables in terms of how strong the SEC is at certain times, but that’s the best way to compare imo.
And UC and Rutgers were MAC level competition back in the day.
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Yes.
We played a lot of OOC games against moribund P5 and G5 teams in the 80’s and 90’s. IU, K-State, Kansas, Virginia Tech, UC, Tulane, Utah State and Rutgers all (then) had football resumes more modest than our own. They certainly won their share of those games, though. I’d certainly give VPI and K-State props (today) for their respective lengthy runs with Frank Beamer and Bill Snyder (respectively). IU had Anthony Thompson for three seasons, but God Almighty: IU is one of only three long-term P5 teams to never win 10 games in a season (Iowa State and Vandy, also).
We’ve actually had two 5-3 seasons against the SEC with Coach Stoops. A winning slate in the SEC that escaped College HOF Coach Claiborne, and well-respected Rich Brooks.
Louisville, year-in-year-out, has provided better competition than did those modest OOC opponents, including victories to UK 3 times over a ranked Louisville squad since 2002, and 5 losses to a ranked U of L this century.
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Claiborne and Curry did not have the talent Stoops have had they never had any 4 stars most of Curry and Claiborne were 2 and 3 stars and maybe no stars.
True.
Hence Stoops has 12 wins versus ranked teams, more than all other Uzk coaches combined from 1978 through 2012..
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Claiborne couldn't beat the Rutgers and Tulanes on the world. Curry struggled against everyone. The Mizzou game reminded me of the Curry coached team.
I've wondered what Claiborne or Brooks could have accomplished if they had had as much talent as is on this team.
Claiborne most overrated coach in UK histiry
Claiborne is most over rated coach in UK history. I don't understand the love for him. He was over the hill and in the decline when he came here. Stoops is a hundred times better than Claiborne. Claiborne ran an archaic offense and defense (Wide tackle 6). Claiborne couldn't recruit. Never got the top recruits in state. All of the top Louisville area kids left the state.
Well neither played in 8 game SEC slate....hell Claiborne played when we only played 6 games in conference. So I don't get your point.
Stoops has warts for sure but hes' been eons better than Curry (who was only better than Joker in modern era). Stoops is the 2nd best UK coach under Bear Bryant for my money.
Bear
Stoops
Curci
Blanton Collier
Brooks
Morris
Mumme
Bradshaw
Curry
Joker
Stoops has warts for sure but hes' been eons better than Curry (who was only better than Joker in modern era). Stoops is the 2nd best UK coach under Bear Bryant for my money.
Bear
Stoops
Curci
Blanton Collier
Brooks
Morris
Mumme
Bradshaw
Curry
Joker
Let me introduce you to Mr Ray Davis who is leading the SEC and 6th in the nation in rushing.
Congrats - one of the dumbest posts I've read on here in a long time. You could work on it personally for the next one hundred years and not become half the man Jerry D. Claiborne was.
Took a completely devastated program back to going bowling - his 1984 team went 9-3, only losses were to top 10 #10 LSU, #5 Florida and #13 Georgia. Beat Tennessee's asses in Neyland Stadium. That team put six players in the NFL and won it's bowl game against Wisconsin. Your dumb comment about him being unable to beat the Tulane's and Rutgers of the world is equally stupid as he whipped both of them that year.
Keep his name out of your mouth.
He pulled off a major turnaround in year 2 and 3, then fizzled for the reasons set out above. Had a ridiculous SEC losing streak on the road, like 3 or 4 years in a row without a road win. Ran the tailback off tackle and the fullback screen 25 times a game. And I remember him defending the WT6 by saying something like "we play the same formations as everyone else" and thinking, well yeah, you may have the players lining up like everyone else, but you are playing LB hybrid types all over the field when everyone else is shifting to 5 or 6 DBs, it just never worked, but he would never change offense or defense. IIRC he never lost an assistant in the 8 years he was here to any other school . . . no one wanted to hire them!!
PS: Good to see you posting again BOZ.
Well, you can see that I agree with Boz. I interviewed him for the Kernel when I was in school, and knew some of his assistants. He was a stand up honest guy, never once would UK ever get in trouble with the NCAA when Claiborne was here, but after 1984 (which as you state was a great season), he never came close to that level again.
Besides, Curry was a nice man as well, never thought he lacked integrity . . . but that doesn't change his W-L record at UK.
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A
And that was their responsibilty to get talent to Ky....they had those jobs for years on end. Neither wanted to recruit Ohio, etc...
To argue against Stoops because he had more talent is sort of silly. Recruiting in college is part of the job.
And that was their responsibilty to get talent to Ky....they had those jobs for years on end. Neither wanted to recruit Ohio, etc...
To argue against Stoops because he had more talent is sort of silly. Recruiting in college is part of the job.
Yes, I knew him as well - including some of the assistants including Rod Sharpless and Bill Glaser.
If you were there at the time then you know Kentucky Football had almost zero support - especially in relation to the other SEC schools. Kentucky's football facilities were little better than some high schools teams had and way worse than the programs they went up against.
Yes, he struggled under those circumstances - any coach in America would have - but pretty much every SEC team he played against was a dogfight - very little, almost never any of these humiliating and undisciplined Stoops style beat-downs.
As for Stoops - 9 million a year and the best facilities money can buy...Stoops would have curled up and fallen into a fetal position on the floor if he had to deal with what Claiborne had to deal with.
When he retired, he helped raise money for the indoor practice facility. I know because I remember meeting with him and made a contribution myself. Took an a** chewing from my wife as a result, by the way, cause I didn't ask her first.
🤣
They didn`t rank recruits via star rankings until the mid 90`s. In basketball they used to have a super 25, which ranked kids on 5 all American teams, then had honorable mentions after that.
I guess few people today have no idea what that old Shively Center looked like. I recall torn up old blue carpet, crappy weight room and rusting metal door frames.
The talent is there. It's the discipline that's lacking. Someone said it on the radio, probably Matt, I don't remember, but this team has an unearned arrogance. They haven't earned it or done a damn thing to act that way. It's like Deion running his mouth as a coach. You've gotta put in the work off the field, on the field, and especially on gameday.
I remember Shively well my hs Coach Ron Cain brought me here on a football Mgr scholarship til John Ray cut me and I went to basketball under Rupp RIPI guess few people today have no idea what that old Shively Center looked like. I recall torn up old blue carpet, crappy weight room and rusting metal door frames.
I don’t think rankings even existed then and certainly not to the extent they do now if they did
The College Hall of Fame differs!!
Not because of coaching at UK but from his younger years at other school. His glory years were way over a long before he came to UK.
No.
Contrary to mamby pamby, whoa is me thinking, Kentucky has tried to make football a thing.
When the Nutter Center opened in 1987, it was state of the art. The largest weight lifting area in the country. Claiborne was here for the opening, and couldn't do shyt with it. Dude wouldn't recruit anyone he couldn't drive to. Roster was filled with 3rd Team All Kentucky team players.
Claiborne was a great guy. As a kid I played at his house in Westmoreland by the airport. Back when he was coaching you could sponsor players. My dad sponsored several players and my family went to many football functions so I knew all of the assistants.
Again he was a great man but below average coach at UK. He should have been hired 10 or 15 years earlier when he was at the peak of his career.
Curry would have still been terrible. It would have been a massive help to Claiborne.
It is easier to get to a bowl game now. You pretty much have three or four built in wins before the season starts. Back in the Curry, Claiborne, and Mumme days you also only played an 11 game schedule. Claiborne had one stretch of about three straight 5-6 seasons needing to beat UT to make a bowl. Those all would of been bowl teams with the two other cupcake games we have now. Mumme also had eleven game seasons and two of his OOC games were Indiana and UofL which means only one win that was a given most years.
I've watched all of these coaches though and Stoops is a far superior recruiter, but with that being said he's also been given way more resources than the rest of them. He's the first one to focus more on recruiting north of SEC territory and I think that was a great move. The talent during the Curry years was horrible for the most part. He had a Stoops mind on the offensive side, with way less talent on defense. Not a good combination..
Edit ... Mumme actually only had UofL, Indiana, and one EKU level team as the OOC. There was pretty much only one guaranteed win on the schedule while you have three now. You could pretty much add a couple of more wins to those guys years with today's schedule. We have basically dropped Indiana and added a cupcake in their spot and one more for the extra game we have now . Two guaranteed wins more than in the past.
I've watched all of these coaches though and Stoops is a far superior recruiter, but with that being said he's also been given way more resources than the rest of them. He's the first one to focus more on recruiting north of SEC territory and I think that was a great move. The talent during the Curry years was horrible for the most part. He had a Stoops mind on the offensive side, with way less talent on defense. Not a good combination..
Edit ... Mumme actually only had UofL, Indiana, and one EKU level team as the OOC. There was pretty much only one guaranteed win on the schedule while you have three now. You could pretty much add a couple of more wins to those guys years with today's schedule. We have basically dropped Indiana and added a cupcake in their spot and one more for the extra game we have now . Two guaranteed wins more than in the past.
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In the eighties there were lots of Top 100 and Top 250 lists.
Mark Higgs was our only 1984 recruit consistently listed as Top 100 recruit, and Al Baker the only 1985 recruit so listed.
So, you could see the 5 or 6 traditional powers eating up the clear majority of these lists.
My first recollection of Star rankings was late 80’s/early 90’s..
We do have a lot more talent, now, but you can’t use a Head Coach’s success in recruiting against him . . . a big reason Stoops has had 10 win seasons is because he has recruited successfully. Why suggest that Claiborne or would have done more with our current talent when the lack of talent then was his fault/shortcoming.
During much of the eighties and nineties, you could see our SEC opponents physical advantage from the upper deck.
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There have been lists for a long time but the era of camps and such and willingness to move and travel by the kids to be seen and see better competition makes the current stuff more informed although it still isn't perfect.
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