How come the Reds can't build a team like the Cardinals?

[trueblujr2]

I hate the St. Louis Cardinals

More envious than anything really, but I hate them.

Why are they able to build a roster full of Super All-Stars that all hit .300 or better with 100 RBI's and 20+ homers each and a pitching lineup of 5 aces who are all in the Cy Young award conversation. All said in jest of course, but it just seems that way whenever the Reds come to town.

What does St. Louis have that Cincy doesn't? The Reds just unloaded Johnny Cueto because they can't afford him. I know they made some colossal blunders in tying up too much money in Votto and Bailey. But now they are in rebuilding mode that is going to take 2-3 years for them to even get back into any thought of contention.

I know Cincy is regarded as a "small market" club. Shouldn't St. Louis be the same? St. Louis is barely bigger than Cincy ( difference of 20k population per 2013 census). However Cincy has more surrounding markets closer to them that they can draw from. Louisville, Indy, Columbus, Dayton, are all approximately 2 hours or less away from Cincy. St. Louis doesn't have that kind of surrounding drawing power within that close proximity. St. Louis and Cincy are both about equal to Pittsburg, Kansas City, Minnesota, as far as markets go, So how is it that St. Louis always have more money to spend, can always build a stronger roster, keep players around and contend year in and year out. How is it that Kansas City can contend and potentially afford a guy like Cueto, but Cincy can't.

I Hate the Cardinals,

Is it really just a matter of Ownership? General Manager, general organization of the club top down all the way through the Minors? Should Jocketty get the boot? Is Brian Price part of the problem this year? How come the Reds have guys throughout their lineup who should be hitting in the .280-300+ range but haven't ever been able to do that. Jay Bruce is no better today than he was 4-5 years ago. Same story different year. Frazier is the only one in that lineup making marked improvement from year to year.

What will it take for the Reds to actually build a program that can actually compete with St. Louis?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

I think a lot of it has to do with management. When I was growing up in the 70s, the Reds were consistently one of the best teams in baseball. They had one of, if not the best, farm system in baseball. I think the ability to evaluate and draft talent, and then supplement your farm system talent through trades or free agency, is all about management skill. I just don't think the Reds have had top tier management in a long time. The Reds have a very strong baseball history and I think we live in an area where baseball is loved. There is no reason they can't be very competitive and successful with the right management.

 

[ModernThirst_Bill]

They earn roughly $73MM more in revenues a year than the Reds. St. Louis is a crazy baseball market, and their fans are all over the midwest and west. until the rockies were founded, they were the most popular team in colorado, for goodness' sake. Literally, they earn $69MM more than the reds on gate receipts alone. The cardinals can cover their player salaries solely from attendance (other expenses excluded, of course).

Cincy is not that far different in size than St. Louis, but the market, as a baseball town, in st. Louis is second to none. They all watch games, they go to games, they buy gear, advertisers line up, etc...and they're willing to pay more for all that than many other markets as well. Market size is not the be-all of sports...if it was, schools near New York City would dominate college sports and sports revenues. If it was, Los Angeles would still have a fantastic NFL football team. If it was, Green bay wouldn't have a franchise at all.

And their ownership is excellent.

They make good decisions, and do it in a great market with great fans and plenty of money.

(for the record, I also hate the cardinals. If a giant sink hole opened up and swallowed busch stadium whole tomorrow, I wouldn't be upset.)

 

[Tskware]

If Houston and KC can have good teams, the Reds can as well. Jockety should go, has been a flop.

 

[Chico&TheMan]

Jocketty still works for the Cardinals...

It doesn't help when you sign players to crippling contracts (Votto and Bailey), overpay in trades (Latos), make poor draft decisions (passed on A.J. Reed), and trade some of your best assets for pennies on the dollar. OK, "pennies on the dollar" may be an overstatement, but I was unimpressed with the Latos and Cueto trade returns.

People will say that they couldn't have expected better for just a "rental" in Cueto, but the Royals are getting a high compensatory pick if Cueto does not re-sign with them. None of the guys that the Royals gave up were high risk to give away. Mid-to-back end rotation and relievers at best for one of the best pitchers in baseball. Basically, nothing that will make the Reds competitive with the Cardinals. Just the same mediocre Reds.

Let's see if they can do any better during the rest of this fire sale...

 

[TheDonJiggy]

The problem with wanting to become the next Houston or KC is that it requires first going through all those 100-loss season growing pains. Bob Castellini is an optimist who wants to win badly. The rest of the execs would have a hard time selling him on that major of a rebuild. But no doubt, they have got to do something. The Reds' window closed in 2013, at least as they were constructed.

 

[ModernThirst_Bill]

The reds' Payroll isn't terrible. While on the surface, that makes you think they could compete with the cardinals, the difference in revenues means that cardinals have more money to spend on development, scouting, and minor leagues. A baseball club is more than just the parent club, it is impacted from scouting all the way up to the majors. All else being equal, more money makes winning at the ML level a lot easier. The cardinals make a whole lot more money than the reds. Hence, its harder for the Reds to win at that level. Even if they made pretty good decisions, it's still harder for them.

 

[Tskware]

The problem with wanting to become the next Houston or KC is that it requires first going through all those 100-loss season growing pains. Bob Castellini is an optimist who wants to win badly. The rest of the execs would have a hard time selling him on that major of a rebuild. But no doubt, they have got to do something. The Reds window closed in 2013, at least as they were constructed.

Well, relax, Reds may get to suffer 100 loss seasons regularly if things don't change, whether Castellini wants to or not. Maybe even this year, if the wheels just completely come off in Aug/Sept.

 

[TheDonJiggy]

Well, relax, Reds may get to suffer 100 loss seasons regularly if things don't change, whether Castellini wants to or not. Maybe even this year, if the wheels just completely come off in Aug/Sept.

It could happen. In which case the Reds become the Phillies, instead of the Astros/Royals. THAT would be tragic.

 

[musrat59]

Long term contracts are a killer in Baseball, especially with pitchers.