Helicopter(possibly military) and an American Airlines CRJ have collided near Ronald Reagan near D.C.

[Bill Cosby]

Seems like they could do training flights somewhere the trainees wouldn’t fly into the path of a commercial aircraft over a major U.S. city.

 

[Cotaay]

Everything I’ve read from people who seem like they would know points to the helicopter pilot messing up unfortunately.

He doesn’t have a video up yet but there is a YouTuber named Pilot Debrief who does a great job breaking down what went wrong in crashes. He typically waits until the final reports come out, but I’m guessing he puts something out soon in this case. Really interested in hearing his take, former military pilot and seems to be as by the book as it gets.

 

[ryanbruner]

Seems like they could do training flights somewhere the trainees wouldn’t fly into the path of a commercial aircraft over a major U.S. city.

You'd think but its the Army after all.

 

[DanCat17]

I don’t think they were looking at that other flight that had just taken off. It was flying north after taking off from the north side of the main runway and would essentially be behind and to the right of the helicopter (that was toward the center or south side of the runway, based on flight path of incoming plane). Maybe they were looking at the next plane lined up on the main runway, but I doubt they were thinking it was the one that had already taken off on the other side of the airport.

This 100%. There’s zero chance the helicopter pilot mistakenly thought the departing plane was the traffic they were alerted to.

I’ve listened to the radio transmission from ATC. The first alert was “JA-25, traffic is just south of the Woodrow bridge, a CRJ, is 1,200 feet for runway 33”.

Then about 7 seconds later the controller clears AA1630(listening to the full recording, this is the last plane to depart before the crash so it has to be the departing plane in the picture) to lineup and wait on runway 1 and notifies that there is a CRJ(plane involved in crash) on a 6 mile final for 33. He is notifying him of this so they will be ready to take off once cleared as runway 1 and runway 33 are intersecting runways.

37 seconds later the controller clears AA1630 for takeoff on runway 1 no delay and notifies him that the CRJ is now on a 3 mile final for runway 33.

Then 52 seconds after the controller asks again if the helicopter has the CRJ in sight. Then tells the helicopter to pass behind the CRJ. I can’t tell you what the pilot of the helicopter said because for some reason on this recording I listened to, you cannot hear the helicopters transmissions. So don’t hear an answer back.

Then 20 seconds later you hear the audible gasps of the controllers in the background as they see the collision happen.

So to recap. The helicopter was first notified of the CRJ before the departing plane even took off. So there’s no way they mistook the departing plane in the picture as the alerted traffic since they weren’t even in the air yet. By the time they were asked again if they had the traffic in sight, the departing plane would have been basically at their 5 o’clock a mile or more away. There’s no way they would have been searching for traffic that far to their right.

 

[TucsonCat]

Insinuating? Check yourself. Your post is off the rails.

The insinuation is very troubling:

President Donald Trump aired his thoughts about Wednesday night's plane collision near Reagan National Airport in a candid Truth Social post.

Writing early Thursday morning, Trump said that the crash "should have been prevented," and expressed concern over the incident.

"The airplane was on a perfect and routine line of approach to the airport," Trump wrote. "The helicopter was going straight at the airplane for an extended period of time."

"It is a CLEAR NIGHT, the lights on the plane were blazing, why didn’t the helicopter go up or down, or turn. Why didn’t the control tower tell the helicopter what to do instead of asking if they saw the plane. This is a bad situation that looks like it should have been prevented. NOT GOOD!!!"

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Seems like they could do training flights somewhere the trainees wouldn’t fly into the path of a commercial aircraft over a major U.S. city.

Like over Lake Barkley.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

So don't start insinuating there's more to story and spreading poorly sourced news.

Thats how murdered judges get their names drug through the mud with vile accusations.

To be sure, I did not insinuate anything in this thread. Nor did I drag a murdered judge’s name through the mud with Cole accusations.

 

[Glenn's take]

 

[Mdnerd]

Oh not saying it’s not used, as I’ve landed on it many times, just that the other runway is the more common one, by a pretty decent clip.

I gotcha. Where did you fly and where are you now?

 

[Someguywhodoesntlikeyou]

You'd think but its the Army after all.

I would think that you’d want to practice in heavily trafficked areas where your bases are so things like this do not happen.

DC is a hub of military and commercial air traffic.

 

[sefus12]

I gotcha. Where did you fly and where are you now?

Oh I lived in Old Town for several years, so we flew in/out of Reagan all the time.

 

[sefus12]

Like over Lake Barkley.

To be fair, Hegseth said that this was a routine annual certification practice, not necessarily straight training. Doesn’t sound like the folks on the helicopter were new to this route/scenario.

 

[Mdnerd]

Oh I lived in Old Town for several years, so we flew in/out of Reagan all the time.

Ahh I see. Thought you were a pilot.

 

[PopesReignOverCardinals]

In a thread that already has said there were survivors and it was a police helicopter, we learn the value of only trusting respectable news services. Should only pay attention to aviation officials with first hand knowledge of what happened. Not randos screaming questions on the internet.

What are you saying is the poor news source? Trump himself, or are you saying that Trump was misquoted by Fox?

 

[FltDoc]

Not going down a conspiracy rabbit hole, but one question that came to my mind once the official statements came out, is why are they doing military*training* flights in congested civilian airspace?

And anyone who's flown into or out of Reagan knows that takeoff and landing are a bit more involved than most U.S. airports.

Am making my way through the comments so if this has already been answered, sorry...

There are "several" military helicopter units that support the country in this area.... flying down the Potomac is very customary, and I'm sure those guys have made that flight many, many times. (its a very restricted airspace and requires a lot of training just to enter).

Procedures will be scrutinized, and maybe something will be changed as this was very tragic, but it's nothing more than a chain of errors which caused this tragedy -- not a "why are they flying there to begin with".

 

[Cotaay]

 

[FltDoc]

33 is a very common runway for RJs. We used to have fun and keep it really tight over the water, but you’re allowed to be more conservative.

Definitely a chance the Helo guy had the wrong plane in sight to avoid. It was on him to stay out of the approach path.

Would bet my last nickle that both airplanes had traffic avoidance technology.... makes this even harder to accept....

 

[FltDoc]

This 100%. There’s zero chance the helicopter pilot mistakenly thought the departing plane was the traffic they were alerted to.

I’ve listened to the radio transmission from ATC. The first alert was “JA-25, traffic is just south of the Woodrow bridge, a CRJ, is 1,200 feet for runway 33”.

Then about 7 seconds later the controller clears AA1630(listening to the full recording, this is the last plane to depart before the crash so it has to be the departing plane in the picture) to lineup and wait on runway 1 and notifies that there is a CRJ(plane involved in crash) on a 6 mile final for 33. He is notifying him of this so they will be ready to take off once cleared as runway 1 and runway 33 are intersecting runways.

37 seconds later the controller clears AA1630 for takeoff on runway 1 no delay and notifies him that the CRJ is now on a 3 mile final for runway 33.

Then 52 seconds after the controller asks again if the helicopter has the CRJ in sight. Then tells the helicopter to pass behind the CRJ. I can’t tell you what the pilot of the helicopter said because for some reason on this recording I listened to, you cannot hear the helicopters transmissions. So don’t hear an answer back.

Then 20 seconds later you hear the audible gasps of the controllers in the background as they see the collision happen.

So to recap. The helicopter was first notified of the CRJ before the departing plane even took off. So there’s no way they mistook the departing plane in the picture as the alerted traffic since they weren’t even in the air yet. By the time they were asked again if they had the traffic in sight, the departing plane would have been basically at their 5 o’clock a mile or more away. There’s no way they would have been searching for traffic that far to their right.

Am agreeing with you high-hour pilots on everything.... but can't get over the fact that both aircraft probably had traffic avoidance technology. So whereas the helicopter was MOST responsible for this, the landing aircraft could have initiated a go-around as well...

In this case even if the landing jet was 98% procedure-perfect, everyone on his plane lost....

Also, makes me think that the helicopter was VFR which suggests a little different type of "spacing" between the two by ATC.

Someone help me here?

 

[Mdnerd]

Would bet my last nickle that both airplanes had traffic avoidance technology.... makes this even harder to accept....

Can’t speak to the systems on the Blackhawk. The CRJ obviously has a TCAS, but the RA is inhibited at low altitudes. So they would have seen the target, but no altitude on it, and no alert from the TCAS. There is constant helicopter traffic in that area, so a low flying target on TCAS is an every approach event almost.

The question now is why was the Blackhawk so high? That corridor is limited to 200’ and below, but they were cruising over 300’. So he either had clearance or made a huge mistake. Either way, that question will be answered very soon.

 

[Mdnerd]

Am agreeing with you high-hour pilots on everything.... but can't get over the fact that both aircraft probably had traffic avoidance technology. So whereas the helicopter was MOST responsible for this, the landing aircraft could have initiated a go-around as well...

In this case even if the landing jet was 98% procedure-perfect, everyone on his plane lost....

Also, makes me think that the helicopter was VFR which suggests a little different type of "spacing" between the two by ATC.

Someone help me here?

Helicopter was VFR, but above the corridor. They were also doing NVG training, which adds an extra layer to this.