You could be right, wouldn't surprise me with his age. Just relaying what I'd heard from multiple places.
Happy to pitch in...
- Thread starter Derek Terry
- Start date
Why aren’t we getting the Ky kids? Ul making a living with players from our back yard.
They have all the momentum,tourney success, great coaching, pros and facilities plus proven success. Hard to handle. How do we break that off?
They have all the momentum,tourney success, great coaching, pros and facilities plus proven success. Hard to handle. How do we break that off?
Several factors...
1) UofL's MO is to offer kids so early and give a full-court press before they've actually proven anything and hope they develop, or else cut ties with them later.
2) They can offer additional academic aid.
3) They keep Louisville kids in Louisville.
4) They give (legally) SA's $6,000 as allowed by the NCAA.
5) They've been really good.
@Derek Terry I saw where you talked to Mitch about the upcoming season and baseball program. Are you able to share any insights into what all he said for those of us who aren’t subscribers. If not completely understand.
I read the article. Mitch is using the injury excuse again. Mingione is getting a pass because “The integrity of the way he runs our program, no issues.” He’s also not very concerned that the new stadium has been mostly empty for every game.
I don't want this to come off the wrong way, as I DO believe creating better MEN as a whole is amazing and certainly one duty as a coach...
But once that is the sole point you are pushing and nothing else comes along with it (making the Supers or having a hint of ANY postseason success)...it says a lot about where you are as a program and where your program stands in the pecking order at your own University. Pointedly, this administration does not care one iota about the competitiveness in baseball or the brand new stadium being nearly empty.
*SIGH*
But once that is the sole point you are pushing and nothing else comes along with it (making the Supers or having a hint of ANY postseason success)...it says a lot about where you are as a program and where your program stands in the pecking order at your own University. Pointedly, this administration does not care one iota about the competitiveness in baseball or the brand new stadium being nearly empty.
*SIGH*
I’ve been saying this for a while now. UK is just not serious about having a winning baseball program.
Kentucky's entire baseball coaching staff made $902,000 this past year. There are nine head coaches in the SEC who made at least $1 million this past season. Theoretically, if a change is made after next year, how much is UK going to be willing to invest in a coaching staff and other expenses that coach might want?
I think you just made my point of UK not being all in on baseball. If I’m not mistaken, 15-20 years ago you could have replaced baseball with football salaries and it would have been right as well.
I was afraid someone would take this attitude. It’s not completely wrong, but at the same time it’s not completely right either.
This is the dilemma Barnhart had/has. If Mingione was winning at a higher rate he would have earned salary increases that could be pushing him towards that Million dollar a year mark. But he is not he is wining just enough to tread water.
Then again he is not abusing players (Billy-Clyde style) nor have the wheels completely fallen off (like Joker, but one could argue the COVID canceled year would have been at that level/trend cycle to make it an argument). He is running a clean program and graduating players. But in an industry where your success is based on the number of games you should be winning, he is not winning enough. Is this due to him being a first time head coach? Or just the fact that he had finally risen above his station?
So a ultra conservative AD is taking (What we all hope is) a one more year approach to a coach to see what he can do. His trend points are,
First year making a super regional.
Second year make SEC tourney but miss NCAA tourney (lots of injuries, bad, luck, bad coaching strategy and screw job by NCAA)
Third year missed both SEC and NCAA tournament ....maybe it was expected in some ways as due to all the turnover the last two years.
Forth - COVID saved him as this year gets erased from any decision points (but missing the SEC tourney two years in a row should never happen and be grounds for immediate replacement. And there was no way that team was making the SEC tourney. Hell they would have been lucky to win 5 regular season SEC games at the rate they were going)
Fifth year - back in the SEC tourney, but one and done.
Sixth year - back to the SEC tourney and you now make it to the semifinals. Argument could be made progress is being made, however slowly.
Now I’m not saying all of this because I want him around. I was the guy asking on the baseball board how one handles “rooting against my beloved team so we can get this change that we all seem to think is needed” down the home stretch of the season as I had a fear that we would win just enough to get us in this pickle……and here we are. But I can see why.
There are many, many superior coaches out there who are making far less than Mingione is who would love the opportunity to be a head coach in the SEC while working in a brand new facility. That dog don’t hunt.
What attitude? You’ve partially made my point. You said if Mingione is performing he would be getting paid close to a million a year, and I agree with that 100%. Point being he’s not so why is he still here? As far as running a clean program, we’re taking about baseball, not football. We are normally on the same page but I guess we can agree to disagree on this point. I know we both want the same outcome with the baseball team.
Coach Ammo is well liked and respected amongst the staff and players. The reason he was moved from coaching 3B was to assist Coach Coggin with the hitters and Coach Rozel with the pitchers on the bench as he works on detailed scouting reports. Once he was moved into that role the team began winning. Ask Chase Estep or many of the other hitters who showed tremendous improvement this past year over last what their thoughts are about him and the impact he has had. It's unfair to falsely make claims about Coach Ammo when he has only been here less than a year and has had a great impact behind the scenes with the staff and players. Give him some time he will be a major coach one day and that comes from well respected coaches in the SEC and other conferences.
Respectfully, we hit .278 as a team in 2021 and we hit .277 as a team in 2022. We hit .255 in conference play in 2021 and just .241 in conference play in 2022.
Those numbers aren't indicating to me that there was significant improvement, which is what I said.
I don't know what happened behind the scenes. We don't get a whole lot of that information with UK baseball. What I do know is that Ammo saw multiple guys get thrown out at the plate and shortly after that happened, Mingione began coaching third base. I could be wrong, but I believe the transition actually happened mid-game, or at least in the middle of a series. That being the case, I don't think it is an egregious assumption to make that Mingione was not overly happy with the fact that we had several people get thrown out at home and baserunning was an issue all year.
Roszel and Coggin have yet to have one of their own pitching classes come through. The guys of the past few years have predominantly been the previous assistants’ guys. Roszel turned Hazelwood from a guy who arrived on campus throwing 82 to a Friday guy throwing 89-92. He’s turned Strickland from afterthought into throwing 95 and Harper from a middling reliever into a guy who posted one of best seasons by reliever in league this year. And although it's not traditional, they've developed Harney from a guy at UMass to the ace of the staff and Guilfoil from a dude at Lipscomb to an All-American.
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Some of that is personnel though too. Schultz was a terrific college hitter. Rhodes a guy worth investing nearly $2 million into. Offensively, there was nobody like that on this year's roster.
If you want me to buy into the argument then you can't start by trying to sell me that Hazelwood was only throwing 82 as a freshman.
"Working mostly 85-88 mph and touching as high as 89, Hazelwood’s delivery is extremely deceptive, allowing the raw velocity of his fastball to play up several ticks, inducing an inordinate amount of empty swings on mid-80s fastballs, simply because the opposing (extremely talented) hitters simply couldn’t pick up the ball quickly out of his hand. The pitch shows good life to the arm side and enough feel to throw strikes, and he backed it up with a swing-and-miss changeup and solid breaking ball. It’s a three-pitch mix from a 6-foot-5, 210-pound frame with athleticism and control, and it would be a shock if Hazelwood remained uncommitted for long."
This was a scouting report from prior to him ever coming to UK. Clearly, not just throwing 82.
That’s straight from Mason’s mouth, that he was throwing low-to-mid 80s fall of his first year on campus. 🤷🏻♂️
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There were two maybe three guys thrown out at the plate all year. Watching replays anyone would have sent them. To say he kept getting guys throw out is a disservice and misinformation. Chase went from hitting 1 HR the year before to I think 16 and is now inline to get drafted. UK plays in the biggest ball park in the SEC so they have to play a different brand of baseball. It may not be an egregious assumption but that is what it is an assumption. I had asked this question to some players and staff when the transition was made and it was they felt they had a better chance with Coach Ammo in the dugout since he had extensive scout reports with pitchers and hitters. They decided it was best for him to work closely with Coach Coggin and Rozel and it worked. They began winning games on a more consistent basis.
We had a lot of base running errors this season. It was something remarked on often. South Carolina series. Friday game. Back to back innings and UK gets a runner thrown out at home to end the inning. First Ammo sent Rubalcaba when he had no business doing so, and Zo got thrown out by a country mile. Then we tried to steal home with 2 outs and Harris gets thrown out. So, two of them happened in 1 game alone. I believe it was that game, or the next, that they switched. Seems to me that it is a pretty weird coincidence that Mingione finally decides to coach third base 48 games into his 5th year as head coach. Also, isn't it possible that the answers you were given were the politically correct thing to say rather than throwing the 3B coach, a volunteer assistant, under the bus?
Either way, Ammo had a responsibility as a third base coach and he lost that responsibility and the HC took it over. Something he'd never done before as a HC. Typically, that isn't an ideal sign for an employee.
Fact of the matter remains that as a team we did not show any marked improvement statistically with our new hitting coach. That may change. I have never indicated that it cannot or will not change. I just stated that from Guilliams to Ammo, there was not a marked improvement. Most stats bear that out.
Pretty interesting that we have a couple brand new insiders join our forum since the season ended.
Well I guess the volunteer assistant who has been here less than a year should be let go since they didn't improve and he has done a terrible job as the 3B coach.
Why the hell should that matter? These guys have seemed to bring some great info and I welcome it. Great to have more posters on the forum. Different pov’s should be welcomed not discouraged imo.
Ok, get your facts right before arguing nonsense. KPP is not the biggest park in the SEC. Based on total dimensions, its not even in the top 5. And you want to argue about Estep. Mingione himself said the biggest change with him was he got serious in the weight room and put the work in to improve himself. But in conference play, he still only hit .220 with 5 home runs. Take out three games, his average dropped below .170 Did he play himself into being drafted, absolutely. But dont think this team improved from 2021 to 2022. The team had more strikeouts, less runs and a worse average across the board. And if he has all these extensive reports, where were they in the first 40 games? He cant use them because hes coaching third base? Come on. Theres been some insane comments on this board, but that one is the top 10.
No one is saying that we should let Ammo go, at least not outside of him being a casualty of Mingione getting fired, which Ammo had to have known was a possibility prior to coming UK to begin with.
The only thing that has happened is that we have speculated on this board on what, if any, changes might be made with the coaching staff.
I have posted to this board, or its predecessor, and followed UK baseball since 2006. In that time I think we have had, at best, two insiders. So, it is very interesting, and a bit strange, that we now have 2 brand new insiders within a week of one another and just after the season ends.
There’s nothing wrong with having different points of view on here. And honestly, the more the better. But it’s the internet. Anyone can claim to have inside knowledge with zero to back it up. Is that what’s happening here? I don’t know. Don’t really care either. Just suspicious.
@Comebakatz3 WOW. I was coming on here to post the exact same thing. Very odd that just now, suddenly, with all the calls from multiple directions about this coaching staff...that THIS offseason we get some new accounts and new posters seemingly coming to an aggressive defense of this staff. Hmmmm. Odd.
I was watching the OU game in the CWS the other day and the 3B coach was getting hammered for his decisions and he said he wouldn't change a thing. I am sure if you spoke to Coach Ammo he would have reasonable answers for his decisions. He has only been here for less than a year. I think he was hired last July. Gilliam was here for 4. So if you look at strides being made as slight as they are you should look at it as a positive. They had a shot at a regional this year something they haven't had in a while. They beat some major competition this year. Something they have not done in recent years. TN and Auburn were not baseball powerhouses and now they are. I agree UK should do a better job in baseball and I think if their top pitchers did not get hurt this year they would have made a regional. I think if they don't next year, there will be a new coaching staff in place. I read somewhere in the last 130 years UK has only been to 7 regionals and no CWS. Hopefully they can turn it around.
Guess I’m more inclined to deal with positive than negative. Negative is too draining - at least to me.
As for the new posters, I’m all in. Appears they have some closer connections to the program which is a good thing. Each their own I guess.
As for the new posters, I’m all in. Appears they have some closer connections to the program which is a good thing. Each their own I guess.
Sorry to anger some of you with my info/opinions. I want nothing but the best for the program and the staff. I am sure they all work their butts off to build a solid team both on and off the field. I think they made some great strides this year. Dealt with some setbacks and kept moving forward. Made some changes that led to winning more games down the stretch when it counted. Did somethings other teams have not done. I won't post anymore I will keep it to the few of you with similar opinions. Thank you Parrott for keeping it positive. I have followed the board this year but did not post anything and now I know my instincts were right. Enjoy and Go Cats.
@Go Cats 2022 thank you for the spot on comments about Coach Ammo. He is a huge asset to the program and we are lucky to have him. The players love him. He did a great job coaching third base this year and that is coming from someone who saw every single decision made at third this season. It’s a real shame that a lot of the posters on this board are incredibly negative and love to wallow in misery. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the toxicity that exists here ruins the experience for many fans. I am thankful for the new posters on this board who are bringing great insight and perspective on the program. Go Cats!
I'm not angry with you in the least. We have differing opinions on some things and there is nothing wrong wit that. Information is certainly welcomed given that few actually have information and report on UK baseball.
I just find it a bit strange that at a time when Mingione has never had a hotter seat, and just after he gets another year, we get two new posters who are both very pro-Mingione and staff and seem to be very well connected.
^ Not sure I’ve seen the new posters really prop up Mingione. The staff yes but it could be they are very close to the situation and see it day to day. I’ll assume that’s the case and will read their posts accordingly.
