Guys, Wisconsin was really, really good
- Thread starter EvilMD
- Start date
They were not really really good enough to beat Duke. I thought that the reason that they beat UK was because the Cats had one of their lack luster performances that that they seemed to have from time to time. They had escaped with wins earlier in the season having those type performances but just had another at the wrong time against a good team. The teams lack of consistent outside shooting finally caught up with them. Booker and Aaron Harrison seemed to have lost their shot for the latter part of the season and UKs bigs seemed to have forgotten how to block out to get rebounds. This had been somewhat of a problem off and on through out the season and with their size I just can not understand why.
OK..BBB..you win..I now realize the officials were simply wonderful on the execution of the shot clock violation. Our fans who want to talk about it as being a turning point in the game are indeed a bunch of whiney dopes.
The missed shot clock was absolutely inconsequential to the outcome of the game. We would have lost by the exact same margin had it been called correctly.
I hope that we have a similar crew of attentive officials with an identical call in ALL future NCAA tourney games. (even an occasional big SEC road football game too).
/sarcasm off
The missed shot clock was absolutely inconsequential to the outcome of the game. We would have lost by the exact same margin had it been called correctly.
I hope that we have a similar crew of attentive officials with an identical call in ALL future NCAA tourney games. (even an occasional big SEC road football game too).
/sarcasm off
but on a serious side..
I acknowledge that the various calls on both sides were less important for the outcome of the game as compared to the things that have already been discussed (relatively poor play by WCS throughout and the three empty possessions down the stretch).
I acknowledge that the various calls on both sides were less important for the outcome of the game as compared to the things that have already been discussed (relatively poor play by WCS throughout and the three empty possessions down the stretch).
I think that what you say is true..... So much so, that I also think that our players got to the point where they thought they were entitled.... They worked and played so hard to get to 38 straight victories, with ESPN coming out every day with new coaches on ways to beat UK..... Our players were complacent and didn't play with the emotion that got them that far.... I'm not blaming them, because any team can lose a game with complacency... It just happened at the wrong time for us... I also think we peaked early and was digressing... No ones fault on that either..... Players had a goal and coaches thought the players were doing their job... They did up until the moment that they met a team that was as talented, and wanted to beat us bad for sending them home... They met us with emotion that we couldn't over come.... We almost did, simply because we had the better team and athletes, but it was just too much to ask.... Especially, with the NCAA wanting K to get his 5th championship.... Giving them an easy road... Letting that team alone while they built for the climax, while they hounded Kentucky and placed them on a pedestal to be knocked off......
A lot of people are being harsh on Cal, which is part of the job (why he makes what he makes). It is very difficult to get a team to improve without losing one here or there. One of the players (I think it was Booker) was quoted mid season as saying the coaches keep telling us this next opponent is dangerous and then we beat them easily.
I was very encouraged to her Cal say "let's try to do it again". That means he learned some things going through it this time.
Rolaid, shut the hell up with that blaming Andrew bullshit. That kid was one of the main reasons we were in that game. I have never seen a player, or players to include Aaron, get so much blame for things that are absolutely not true. There is a group of posters, and we all know who, including rolaid, who love to blame the twins for everything that went wrong. Andrew was probably our second best player the last half of the season and led an all freshman starting lineup to the title game and another final four. Not to mention, we would have lost at least 3 to 4 more games without him. Quit the twins bashing bullshit. I'm sure those posters will find a way to blame the twins for something that goes wrong next year too, its that pathetic.
Gary4uk, I agree. We played with little to no intensity in every tournament game outside of the wvu game. It was shocking. Me and the group I watched the games with were particularly stunned to see WCS play with absolutely no aggression against both Notre Dame and Wisconsin. It literally looked like he was in the place he least wanted to be at. Our team was at its absolute best when he played with energy. It got our guys going when he dunked on someone or blocked their shot. Its so shocking because the dude kept talking about being on a sole mission of winning the title.
Love Cal but why does he let the other team dictate the pace, especially in tourney games? With our athleticism and depth we should have been always pushing the pace. The 2012 team pushed the pace all the time and the 2015 was built to but we were content walking the ball up the floor. Cal says all tournament games are grind it out games but that absolutely does not have to be true when you had the weapons we had. Bar none the most painful loss of my life. Duke won our title to top it off. I frequently mentioned on here that going away from platooning would dramatically drop our chances for a title. Its what separated us from the Wisconsin's and Dukes. By removing our best weapon, we were simply on par with them and very beatable. A lot of us said this when we were seeing it but we kept winning.
Also, I was one of the group everyone made fun of for not wanting to play Wisconsin. They were the perfect team to beat us the way they were built. I said all year they were our biggest threat. We were not scared of Wisconsin, some of us just recognized the danger the possessed early on.
Love Cal but why does he let the other team dictate the pace, especially in tourney games? With our athleticism and depth we should have been always pushing the pace. The 2012 team pushed the pace all the time and the 2015 was built to but we were content walking the ball up the floor. Cal says all tournament games are grind it out games but that absolutely does not have to be true when you had the weapons we had. Bar none the most painful loss of my life. Duke won our title to top it off. I frequently mentioned on here that going away from platooning would dramatically drop our chances for a title. Its what separated us from the Wisconsin's and Dukes. By removing our best weapon, we were simply on par with them and very beatable. A lot of us said this when we were seeing it but we kept winning.
Also, I was one of the group everyone made fun of for not wanting to play Wisconsin. They were the perfect team to beat us the way they were built. I said all year they were our biggest threat. We were not scared of Wisconsin, some of us just recognized the danger the possessed early on.
Actually, they got that one right. First, they did it by the book by going to the monitor. Second, the THREE refs felt that it was a legit basketball move that just seemed awkward and looked worse than it was. Third, up to that point, nobody was playing dirty on either team. It wasn't ANYTHING like the Cinci game. Fourth, Trey has NO history of overly aggressive play. Heck, he isn't even aggressive, to be honest.
All things considered, the refs decided it was unintentional, similar to a poke in the eye.
Finally, I am usually on the other side of these debates. Normally, on a play like that, I would be saying that we got a gift. But, I honestly feel like this one was simply the right call. But, I can see why some think I am wrong. It looked worse than it was.
I agree with your first point regarding the no call on Trey. However, points 2,3,and 4 are completely irrelevant and wrong. Legitimate basketball moves can be flagrant ones. It doesn't matter if anyone had played dirty up to that point and the fact that Trey had not been aggressive all year does not matter. It was a bad call that kept Wisconsin from having two shots and the ball. I'm glad they didn't make the call, but still think it was wrong. What everyone complaining about the refs here fail to acknowledge is that at the least, it was a simple foul, but the refs can't look at a video and call a foul. So, after watching the video and realizing they missed a foul call, they could not fix it......on that play.
I started to rewatch the Wisconsin game last week and I got to the under 8 minute timeout in the 1st half. Then this afternoon I was a little bit under the weather so I finished out the rest of the game and man, and wow it was awful. From the under 16 timeout in the 1st half to the under 16 timeout in the 2nd half every basket made except 1 was scored by a player who was being defended by Booker, Lyles, or Lee. The other 1 was scored on WCS. The lion's share was scored on Booker, he alone literally gave up like 40 points. In one two minute span from 19:00-17:00 in the 2nd half Booker gave up a 3 pointer to Koening and 2 and 1's to Kaminsky and Dekker. 9 points in 2 minutes. finally we went to line up of the twins, Ulis, WCS, and Towns that was line up that started the come back, and then a little later on Lyles came back in a did some good stuff.
The fact of the matter is this, Wisconsin was a great team, not better than us but a great team. However Sam Dekker and Frank Kaminsky were great college players better than anyone we had on the team sans Karl Towns when he really got going. They carried Wisconsin when the fight got tough. College basketball is won or lost on the day you play the game, not what would happen if you play the game 5 years down the road when our players would be older and NBA seasoned. That is what I think is so misconstrued about the one and done it has to be great players who are great from the jump and not players who will be great. In 2012 the 2 best college basketball players in the country were Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist I wouldn't of traded them for Thomas Robinson, Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes, Russ Smith, etc... This year I would of traded any of our freshman on a just for 1 year basis for Frank Kaminsky, Sam Dekker, Jerian Grant or even the transcendent freshman other than KAT, like Russell, or the 3 at Duke.
Finally I'm not sure how much to blame Cal, how much to blame the players, and how much to just credit Wisconsin. I'd almost say 50% on Cal and 50% credit to Wisconsin and 0% blame on the players. Wisconsin ran the offense that Bo Ryan knew would destroy us, and our players played the kind of defense coach Cal asked. I mean Devin Booker is a terrible defender, like pitiful but he should of never been on Dekker, Kaminsky, Dukan, or Hayes. If a guy like Booker is going to be in the game he has to guard Gasser or Koening and that's it. Same thing with Marcus Lee he is a great athlete vertically, he can't be put in to the position where he is trying to guard a laterally quick athlete. Finally the last 10 minutes of the game we got away from switching came back and took the lead and almost won the game if we didn't poop our pants the last 5 times we had the ball. We lost the game but the players should keep their head up, they got beat by a great team and coach who had a better game plan than ours for that 1 night.
The fact of the matter is this, Wisconsin was a great team, not better than us but a great team. However Sam Dekker and Frank Kaminsky were great college players better than anyone we had on the team sans Karl Towns when he really got going. They carried Wisconsin when the fight got tough. College basketball is won or lost on the day you play the game, not what would happen if you play the game 5 years down the road when our players would be older and NBA seasoned. That is what I think is so misconstrued about the one and done it has to be great players who are great from the jump and not players who will be great. In 2012 the 2 best college basketball players in the country were Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist I wouldn't of traded them for Thomas Robinson, Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes, Russ Smith, etc... This year I would of traded any of our freshman on a just for 1 year basis for Frank Kaminsky, Sam Dekker, Jerian Grant or even the transcendent freshman other than KAT, like Russell, or the 3 at Duke.
Finally I'm not sure how much to blame Cal, how much to blame the players, and how much to just credit Wisconsin. I'd almost say 50% on Cal and 50% credit to Wisconsin and 0% blame on the players. Wisconsin ran the offense that Bo Ryan knew would destroy us, and our players played the kind of defense coach Cal asked. I mean Devin Booker is a terrible defender, like pitiful but he should of never been on Dekker, Kaminsky, Dukan, or Hayes. If a guy like Booker is going to be in the game he has to guard Gasser or Koening and that's it. Same thing with Marcus Lee he is a great athlete vertically, he can't be put in to the position where he is trying to guard a laterally quick athlete. Finally the last 10 minutes of the game we got away from switching came back and took the lead and almost won the game if we didn't poop our pants the last 5 times we had the ball. We lost the game but the players should keep their head up, they got beat by a great team and coach who had a better game plan than ours for that 1 night.
You gotta keep up with the rule changes. The NCAA changed the rule to give discretion to the refs to decide if it should be called a F1, F2, or no call. We had the same situation when Ulis was bloodied by an elbow in an earlier game. The refs determined that it was a legit basketball move and Ulis just got too close.
My points about Trey and the game, in general, would have had a clear impact on how the refs viewed the play. If the two players had been going at it, you better believe that the refs would have called it an F1.
The refs took the entire situation into consideration and decided that it wasn't an F1. It was the right call just as the no-call against the kid how whacked Ulis was a good no-call.
You cannot disagree with the ref's decision but you have no basis to do that other than what you "think you saw."
