New coach. New system. All new players. Realistically how long do you expect it to take for everything to gel?
Growing pains
- Thread starter FurdTerguson
- Start date
If we go something like 24-10, 25-8 (I’m not sure exactly how many games will be on schedule), I will call that a success. The SEC has become very competitive and with all the change, that would probably be a 4-6 seed. It gives you a shot to make some noise.
I think we will be good. I don’t expect a title (will happily take one!) and I don’t expect to miss the tournament. Let’s get Pope his first tournament win & some added experience. Sweet 16 would be good. Elite 8 would be very good. Final four - Fantastic.
I think we will be good. I don’t expect a title (will happily take one!) and I don’t expect to miss the tournament. Let’s get Pope his first tournament win & some added experience. Sweet 16 would be good. Elite 8 would be very good. Final four - Fantastic.
I don't think it will take long, merely because of our experienced talent.
If Cal could do it with an older team preinjury with that 2022 team, Pope can do it with an even older, just as talented team in 2025.
A 3 seed would not surprise me. We'll be good early, too.
If Cal could do it with an older team preinjury with that 2022 team, Pope can do it with an even older, just as talented team in 2025.
A 3 seed would not surprise me. We'll be good early, too.
No major problems team should get about february
Injuries and/ or discord because of PT or NIL, could be a long season.
Injuries and/ or discord because of PT or NIL, could be a long season.
This. I’m expecting it to happen pretty quickly precisely because of the combination of experienced journeymen we picked up. The last ten years we had teams that were really good two to three years after they left. It will be nice to see continuity and the stability that brings to the table.
Well since we’ve averaged about 12 losses a season over the last 4 years I’ll be very happy with that in CMP first year. Hard to say how quickly it will come together with so many variables though.
I'm a tiny bit worried about the first few weeks. With everyone transferring in, and a little older and running out of time to showcase. So, I'm a little worried there might be a little growing pains while establishing who 'the guy or guys' are. We don't know what was told to them by Pope, or what impression they may be under about their role. I don't expect it to be a huge season long issue, but maybe some early season sorting out. I think after the first couple road SEC games, we'll be pretty sorted and gelling. I think we're looking at a 4 seed (but trending up) due to some early season growing pains.
I’m hoping things gel sooner than later obviously, but in general my expectations are tempered. I think we will have a little less talent than we’re accustomed to but the big offset to that is having more experienced/developed players—they are already proven NCAA commodities. So on player potential to win games by playing at a high level, I think we’ll be talented enough and more consistent than in the recent past and we will be fine. I have confidence that Coach Pope will be solid with game prep and in-game adjustments. With all that said, I expect there to be hiccups with so many variables—all these players are coming from different systems to form a new system in a new place with a new coach (for most)—that mixture will take a little time to gel. I think by Christmas we’ll be a good team and I’m hopeful we’ll compete well in the SECT and if we could get to the Sweet 16 or better I’d be very happy with the start of the Pope era. I want to see competitive mindsets executing a well thought out game plan—that will tell us more than wins/losses as we come out of the gate early this season.
If it hasn't happened by this afternoon, I'm going to consider the program a failure.
I think making the tournament is rational, but the Sweet 16 is the ceiling.
This really isn’t that crazy when I think about it. Cause in a sense, it has because a group of 12 players this talented committing to playing together and sacrificing roles/playing time has value. It could be argued that players 5-12 are very close to even. I’m sure it will play out with some guys producing more than others, but still.
In the transfer portal and NIL era it’s a struggle to keep rosters together. Players want bigger roles, more money, playing time, etc. For pope to get in theory or on paper 12 guys that can contribute something, is mighty impressive to me. And to the point tells me that we already have some of that going on.
In practice (pun intended I think) I think having the summer here to just find combos, get on court chemistry and fluidity with each other. That’s gonna be the part that takes time because what’s mentioned above tells me they are kids of high character, want to win.
So 12 talented dudes, mostly old, committed to winning tells me that they just need reps. Normally I’d say till conference play but we have a very old team so honestly I won’t be surprised with all I have said if we can have it fairly smooth by the first real game even. I don’t think that’s crazy with the experience.
Sorry for the long post adhd brain.
*thought* Many have almanor as like our 10th man. Maybe I’m exaggerating a little with that maybe not. I think a guy with size and length of his and his ability to shoot and defend (see Edey) and within a system friendly to his skill set (you can argue that for all our guys, another reason I’m high on us.) I think he will surprise a lot of people. 17ppg and not afraid to launch it.
Okay back to work.
I sincerely hope Pope does well his first year, but I don't have any expectations this year. I'm just glad Cal is gone, gone, gone!
That system has zoom-, stagger-, reject-, and curl-based plays, each of which is nuanced and involves many split-second reactions, based on correctly-handled informed decisions, based on reads, as it develops over time, which it can do in a variety of ways, which can include some of those basic plays morphing into others, all in addition to a healthy toolkit of more universal basic basketball tactics like screens and picks and drives and lobs and feints and what have you, used much more simply. All in addition to whatever wrinkles Pope decides to add at Kentucky based on new options he and his staff see in the higher level of talent and physical tools he has here. No one’s going to pick that up overnight. And it’s a good thing we’ve got a lot of high-basketball-IQ guys trying to learn it all together.
Of course, the players will start to gel relationally long before they fully gel as a team in their full offense. That much should be underway by August by and large. We will see that and we will see advantages emerge from that. But in a real sense, the action we see over a big part of the season will be the result of guys implementing plays and schemes they haven’t had mastered very long, and at a minimum haven’t had any or much experience running against real competition. So that will shunt and mask their actual ability—including their ability to gel while doing it—until they really shake the dust off and work out the kinks.
Not to mention we’ll be facing the same sorts of challenges and growth arc on defense, to a lesser extent.
It will be a huge investment of discipline over time. The potential is for that investment to pay off dramatically, especially with players of this caliber. But don’t expect that to happen overnight. I expect it to be mid-February before we start to get a solid picture of what this team can really be when it “gels.” That may sound like cutting it close. But it’s what you get when you set out to build a solid, nuanced, and significantly problem-causing offense from a base of twelve players almost all of whom were all but entirely unknown to each other previously. I don’t think it will be cutting it too close. And I think Pope is smart enough to bake in each layer in a way that will let us be effective while we’re on the way to becoming dominant.
The development of this team will absolutely be about March. And looking back at the end of the season I think we will all be amazed at how far we came compared to how we played our first five games. But I don’t think we’ll have to hear “it’s about March” used as an excuse along the way. Finally we have a coach who understands-all- the parts of the assignment.
Of course, the players will start to gel relationally long before they fully gel as a team in their full offense. That much should be underway by August by and large. We will see that and we will see advantages emerge from that. But in a real sense, the action we see over a big part of the season will be the result of guys implementing plays and schemes they haven’t had mastered very long, and at a minimum haven’t had any or much experience running against real competition. So that will shunt and mask their actual ability—including their ability to gel while doing it—until they really shake the dust off and work out the kinks.
Not to mention we’ll be facing the same sorts of challenges and growth arc on defense, to a lesser extent.
It will be a huge investment of discipline over time. The potential is for that investment to pay off dramatically, especially with players of this caliber. But don’t expect that to happen overnight. I expect it to be mid-February before we start to get a solid picture of what this team can really be when it “gels.” That may sound like cutting it close. But it’s what you get when you set out to build a solid, nuanced, and significantly problem-causing offense from a base of twelve players almost all of whom were all but entirely unknown to each other previously. I don’t think it will be cutting it too close. And I think Pope is smart enough to bake in each layer in a way that will let us be effective while we’re on the way to becoming dominant.
The development of this team will absolutely be about March. And looking back at the end of the season I think we will all be amazed at how far we came compared to how we played our first five games. But I don’t think we’ll have to hear “it’s about March” used as an excuse along the way. Finally we have a coach who understands-all- the parts of the assignment.
If Sweet 16 is the ceiling, how will recruiting need to adjust to go further in year 2?
On one hand, I think our transfers are more on par with Davion Mintz and Tre Mitchell than Oscar and Reeves. I don't see what makes our roster better than most SEC teams.
On the other hand, if Pope got a 6 seed with last year's BYU roster in the Big 12, surely he won't do worse than that with this roster in the SEC.
No matter what, we will get to watch coached basketball this year.
On the other hand, if Pope got a 6 seed with last year's BYU roster in the Big 12, surely he won't do worse than that with this roster in the SEC.
No matter what, we will get to watch coached basketball this year.
Will this be an issue when we have to start over every year with a new roster and barely any returnees?
I think that our problem with the previous coach. If he plays defense like I hope UK does then everyone will get their time on the floor. And if Coach utilizes the press which he knows how to play it and how to coach it players on the bench have to be ready to play from the get go. I think if this team is in Pitino team shape the players will fill as good about themselves with a steal as they will with making a basket. This team has to be about team success not individual goals. That keeps everyone happy.
My early prediction: we will be shocked at how good this team is defensively before we see the offense catch up.
This. All the this. Feels like Kentucky basketball has been a rudderless AAU ship for a number of years. Will be refreshing to see some organized ball.
I predict a better SEC and NCAA tournament success, so that will be a huge improvement. Only have to win a game in each.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean, it definitely could. But one way of looking at our roster is it’s twelve of the least one-and-done types out there. (Or maybe better to say eleven of those types plus Garrison?). I also hope that within a few years we will begin to see structured NIL contracts, with big incentives in the second and third contract years that will start to insulate schools from being ravaged too badly by the portal. So hopefully all that plus Pope having much bigger recruiting windows going forward will keep us from having to rebuild that much from scratch every year.
But yes. Fwiw, in my humble little opinion, Pope’s offense is definitely one of the harder offenses out there to really learn well, and so if we really have to install that all from scratch every year it really will be a bigger hurdle for us than for most schools. Otoh one of the only offenses out there that’s more complicated than Pope’s is Hurley’s. And the portal/NIL era doesn’t seem to have been too awfully hard on him lately.
Pope will have to develop an attractive product to recruits. The "name on the front of the jersey" is not going to recruit elite talent on it's own and Mark Pope is pretty much an unknown.
We will have something this year that we have had very little of the past years and that is experience. Older guys that have a lot of games under their belts and I love the staff that Pope has put together. Another thing we will have that we have not see in years past is DEFENSE ! I don't think it will take long for this team to gel and play together. I would love to see UK beat Ark. when they come to Rupp and get to the Elite 8. GBB !
There is no “ceiling” for a single elimination tournament. I wonder what “ceiling” you had for Alabama or NC State last year.
It’ll help to have a full year rather than 2 months to build a coaching staff AND a team…
He "understands the assignment" which obviously so many on here are willing to have the offseason glasses on. The second this team loses a game, his seat will not be as comfortable. Part of the job here. He has experienced players and a very easy system to play in, I think Kentucky will be very good this year. But laugh at those who want to move the goal posts. There's no such thing at Kentucky, It's win or better win soon. That's the expectation.
certain standards that we've been used to:
Winning reg season sec championship
Winning sec tourney championship
20+ win seasons
At least winning the opening round ncaa game...
How much time will it take to accomplish any of these? I say we give him at least 5 years and if he does not turn out like Cal, we've made an improvement. He's already won some big games at BYU....and that bodes well for us fans.
Winning reg season sec championship
Winning sec tourney championship
20+ win seasons
At least winning the opening round ncaa game...
How much time will it take to accomplish any of these? I say we give him at least 5 years and if he does not turn out like Cal, we've made an improvement. He's already won some big games at BYU....and that bodes well for us fans.
Make the NCAA and win the first round and they'll be doing better than 2 of the last 3 teams full of blue chip recruits
In spurts probably looking magically together at times even early as well as exposed in others even later in a continuous process, hopefully fully clicking by the tournament.
With Robinsons addition to the roster Im optimistic that Popes system will work out fine. We have two floor generals on the floor. Butler (team captain) and Robinson.
I disagree about the name on the jersey. UK plays in any early season tourney we want. We play Duke UNC Kansas Mich St Gonzaga IU UL, yearly and almost all those games are primetime games. Even with cal fvcking things up we were still pretty much on every tongue during the season. Kentucky is a brand that recruits cannot overlook.
Getting rid of Cal without having to buy him out has already made 24/25 a success. Anything more is icing on the cake.
Recruits have been asking for Kentucky to contact them, so I don't think there will be a problem to get 5-star recruits. However, Pope isn't going to attempt to copy Cal's broken system of over recruiting OADs.
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