"Great Coach"???

[KYFOSSIL]

Is Cal a great coach and are the other such as K, Izzo, Pitino, or Pearl? A coach, particularly in college is the sum of all his roles: recruiter, motivator, role model, educator, strategist(Xs and Os), community leader, and mentor. These are the roles the results he should be judged on are: Team success, which is wins and losses and ultimately post season results. Player success in both giving them the best chance to succeed in life as both a professional and a person. The institution's success in regards to being a strong and viable basketball program. Did the coach make the program better than when he received it?

Based on this I believe Cal is easily a great coach and so do those that put him in the Hall of Fame. By no means perfect but certainly a great coach.

 

[crestcat]

How did Pearl get on that list?

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Anyone....whatever they call themselves, who can call Pitino or Pearl a great coach as defined above will not get the message of this thread.

How did Pearl get on that list?

someone referred to him as a great coach.

 

[WeWant9]

Cals record speaks for itself. You can nitpick at stuff, but no coach is immune to that in this day and age.

I know as UK fans, myself included, like to say man I'd kill for one more championship. When there are many fans who'd kill to have the 6 year run we've been on.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

when they showed pearl talking about character in the locker room i got the feeling it was going to be a rough two hours

he is slime

 

[Jkwo]

Uh, well first - I don't think anybody who isn't in a mental ward would argue that Cal's entire package (including recruiting) isn't great. Anybody who looks at his resume and thinks he's not great at his job is absolutely bonkers. I don't think that's a stance held by anyone but Louisville fans and drunken degenerates. But I repeat myself.

Instead, what some people erroneously argue is that he's not good at the X and Os component of coaching. That is stupid as well, but it's a claim that requires actually looking back at his past as well as the national landscape to debunk.

What he did at UMASS was nearly as good as Brad Steven's run, about on par with Gregg Marshall, and better than Shaka Smart's run. He made that historic (for a mid major) five year run with two high major offered players on his roster at any given time.



As for what he does now, only a handful of coaches are apples to apples to compare with him - for the last 6 years, he's blown everybody out of the water with on the court results except K, but most of those other guys also have vastly less talent.

So who else gets enough talent that we're still talking apples to apples? K has just as many five stars per roster. Self is right there. Roy and S. Miller are often close behind.

Cal has blown all of those guys' results out of the water, except for K, who has had comparable results (one more championship, but two fewer F4s). And K is also in the GOAT argument. Self and Roy are lock HOFers, and S. Miller may well get there some day, they bring AAs off the bench, yet they can't keep up with Cal at a big boy school.

As for the lesser talent guys - are there a few who could produce as good results as Cal if they had UK/Duke/Kansas level talent? It's entirely possible. We'll see Izzo give it a shot next year. Maybe Gregg Marshall? But the reality is, if you see what Cal has done with low-talent rosters, and you have even a modicum of basketball understanding, you'll see that only a few select coaches have the potential to outperform him (over the long run - if you try to make points based on individual games, you are a statistical idiot) with equal talent.

Cal is one of the two best recruiters in the game, and at worst a top 10 bench coach. No, there are not more than 9 other guys in D1 who could pull off that UMASS run.

So, for the millionth time, unless you think we can pull K away from Duke (who has just as many losses as we do with just as many burger boys), I have no idea where people think the upgrade is gonna come from.

 

[wldktz8]

I actually think Izzo is a good coach but not a great coach.

 

[yoshukai]

Is Cal a great coach and are the other such as K, Izzo, Pitino, or Pearl? A coach, particularly in college is the sum of all his roles: recruiter, motivator, role model, educator, strategist(Xs and Os), community leader, and mentor. These are the roles the results he should be judged on are: Team success, which is wins and losses and ultimately post season results. Player success in both giving them the best chance to succeed in life as both a professional and a person. The institution's success in regards to being a strong and viable basketball program. Did the coach make the program better than when he received it?

Based on this I believe Cal is easily a great coach and so do those that put him in the Hall of Fame. By no means perfect but certainly a great coach.

LOL ! What exactly has Pearl won ? Are you serious?

 

[yoshukai]

Anyone....whatever they call themselves, who can call Pitino or Pearl a great coach as defined above will not get the message of this thread.

someone referred to him as a great coach.

LOL , I've had people say I was a great putter but I've never made a penny playing golf .

 

[KYFOSSIL]

LOL ! What exactly has Pearl won ? Are you serious?

I listed Pearl out of "respect" for one of his groupies that posts here

 

[KYFOSSIL]

LOL , I've had people say I was a great putter but I've never made a penny playing golf .

That's my overall point. Listing Pearl was an inside joke and jab.

 

[jrpross]

So, for the millionth time, unless you think we can pull K away from Duke (who has just as many losses as we do with just as many burger boys), I have no idea where people think the upgrade is gonna come from.

This is the bottom line right here. And yet there have been people, dead serious, in the last couple days, who have said things like "after 3 bad regular seasons in the last 4 years, I hope cal takes an NBA job." And "I like Shaka Smart's style of play, I think he'd fit it well."

I wish, deep down in my heart, that I could reason with these people. But you simply can't reason with stupidity.

 

[fabcat]

Bilas has said on multiple occasions that coach K is not a great X and O coach. He is really good at motivation, getting the best out of his players, and being versatile in how his teams play. But a pure X an O coach is not one of his strong suite. That goes against the public opinion of Coach K, but Bilas played for him and knows him really well. Coach Cal is considered a great recruiter but average coach by most. Before going to Memphis and especially since being at UK, Cal was considered great bench coach, and someone who could really develop players, and get the most out of them. Now he is considered just a great recruiter and basically rolls the balls out and watches. That is even the perception of a lot of our fans as well.

 

[yoshukai]

That's my overall point. Listing Pearl was an inside joke and jab.

Sorry man , that shot right over my head ,lol . Usually I'm pretty good at picking up on those . Color me embarrassed. LOL

 

[KYFOSSIL]

No problem

 

[JohnnyGentle]

izzo is probably the best x and o guy as far as getting shots out of timeouts atkot

kansas has won their league twelve years in a row. that kind of consistency over the course of a season is more of a reflection on coaching than tournament performance is, absent glaring in-game coaching blunders. northern iowa went apeshit from 3. it happens

duke has lost in the first round twice in the last five years and they don't defend. kzryzewski was a great coach 25 years ago when they went to seven straight final fours. he isn't now. he instructed his player to miss intentionally up 2 in the final against butler, and the ensuing 40 footer rimmed out. what kind of jackass would introduce the possibility of losing in regulation? the loss to indiana in rupp with two NPOY plus dunleavy & boozer and to low-major mercer in the first round (lehigh had an nba player at least) are far far worse than any of self's or cal's tournament exits

 

[KYFOSSIL]

I agree. K has tenur with success and is a great coach but some think he's GOAT but I don't

 

[Jkwo]

Bilas has said on multiple occasions that coach K is not a great X and O coach. He is really good at motivation, getting the best out of his players, and being versatile in how his teams play. But a pure X an O coach is not one of his strong suite. That goes against the public opinion of Coach K, but Bilas played for him and knows him really well. Coach Cal is considered a great recruiter but average coach by most. Before going to Memphis and especially since being at UK, Cal was considered great bench coach, and someone who could really develop players, and get the most out of them. Now he is considered just a great recruiter and basically rolls the balls out and watches. That is even the perception of a lot of our fans as well.

Can't speak either way on Bilas re: K because I didn't hear it, but I know that Bilas points out all the time that the meme that Cal is average or poor at Xs and Os is ridiculous. He mocks the rolls the balls out thing all the time.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

he still has the leadership qualities or whatever to run a big-time program but does he represent a tactical/strategic advantage for duke over a given opponent in-game? i don't believe it for a second

he looked like a deer in the headlights as arizona and then louisville a couple of years later ripped off huge runs to break open tight tournament games. they've sort of devolved into playing a formula of ball pressure and making 3s. they don't really put a premium on guarding the rim or getting paint touches. i don't think what they do is fundamentally sound. but with their talent level and the premium on making 3s they usually have a chance

 

[fabcat]

Can't speak either way on Bilas re: K because I didn't hear it, but I know that Bilas points out all the time that the meme that Cal is average or poor at Xs and Os is ridiculous. He mocks the rolls the balls out thing all the time.

Bilas is one of Cal's biggest fan. He thinks it's ridiculous the way people perceive Cal.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

Can't speak either way on Bilas re: K because I didn't hear it, but I know that Bilas points out all the time that the meme that Cal is average or poor at Xs and Os is ridiculous. He mocks the rolls the balls out thing all the time.

fraschilla--and it might have been in defense of cal--used the example of kzryzewski as someone who isn't an elite x & o coach to make a point, and bilas jumped all over him on twitter. that's my recollection

i think cal ran way better stuff at umass and sometimes uk's half-court offense is less than inspired, but his uk teams don't take shortcuts or game the system. they guard the rim, drive the ball, and throw it in the post. overall it's a brand of basketball that is unassailable fundamentally and not remotely cynical


pitino may be an even worse human than kzyrzewski, and their style of play is fairly sickening, but he's had 30 win seasons there with rosters that kzryzewski would struggle to get to .500 in acc play

 

[Jkwo]

It's true that he doesn't run nearly as many plays as he used to, because it seems that he thinks it's optimal to instill an algorithm in his high level athletes rather than a playbook. His W/L at UK seems to reflect that his method is quite effective. Also, those algorithms have been pretty vastly different from year to year - nobody besides K (lately) puts up with the personnel changes that Cal does (by his own doing).

Overall, I think it's pretty plain to see that you can say Cal isn't great at Xs and Os, but only if your definition of "great" is incredibly restrictive. If Cal isn't great at Xs and Os, then your list of "greats" is really short if you're applying your standards in a consistent way.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

fraschilla--and it might have been in defense of cal--used the example of kzryzewski as someone who isn't an elite x & o coach to make a point, and bilas jumped all over him on twitter. that's my recollection

i think cal ran way better stuff at umass and sometimes uk's half-court offense is less than inspired, but his uk teams don't take shortcuts or game the system. they guard the rim, drive the ball, and throw it in the post. overall it's a brand of basketball that is unassailable fundamentally and not remotely cynical


pitino may be an even worse human than kzyrzewski, and their style of play is fairly sickening, but he's had 30 win seasons there with rosters that kzryzewski would struggle to get to .500 in acc play

I think people don't understand the fact that you can only teach so much and need to have reasonable retention expectations of very young teams that are not only new to the level of play but to each other as well. That's why he keeps the Xs and Os less comp locate than he might with a team dominated by 3 and 4 year players.

 

[deplion]

My ideal UK coach is one who maximizes our chances at a national title on a consistent basis. I know we can't win every year, or even close to that, but I want to be a legit threat (almost) every year.

With that as my criteria, I cannot think of a single person who I would prefer to coach our team other than John Calipari.

He isn't perfect, but I truly do think he is great.

 

[CELTICAT]

Great coach, shitty fan base.

 

[AGEE11]

You know I love the trolls who say Cal can't win without the best players, K is the greatest.

Do none of them realize K only wins with top tiered teams. That great stretch in the 90s was when he got 4 years of arguably the best player in the last 30 years of college ball with an amazing supporting cast. The other 3 were when Jay Williams could body check the other point guard and it was called a steal, and two other really good teams compared to the competition.

It is easier to argue that K can't win without the best players as it is to say it about Cal. K never did squat with a team like the UMass and early Memphis squads Cal had.

 

[AGEE11]

My ideal UK coach is one who maximizes our chances at a national title on a consistent basis. I know we can't win every year, or even close to that, but I want to be a legit threat (almost) every year.

With that as my criteria, I cannot think of a single person who I would prefer to coach our team other than John Calipari.

He isn't perfect, but I truly do think he is great.

Couldn't agree more. This sums it all up perfectly

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Great coach, shitty fan base.

Shitty trolls.....awesome fan base!!

 

[Gary4UK]

Is Cal a great coach and are the other such as K, Izzo, Pitino, or Pearl? A coach, particularly in college is the sum of all his roles: recruiter, motivator, role model, educator, strategist(Xs and Os), community leader, and mentor. These are the roles the results he should be judged on are: Team success, which is wins and losses and ultimately post season results. Player success in both giving them the best chance to succeed in life as both a professional and a person. The institution's success in regards to being a strong and viable basketball program. Did the coach make the program better than when he received it?

Based on this I believe Cal is easily a great coach and so do those that put him in the Hall of Fame. By no means perfect but certainly a great coach.

I don't know why Izzo is even mentioned with hall of fame coaches..... Maybe one day he will be in the hall of fame, but he's no Cal... Pitino is getting older and refusing to change anything... His recruiting has involved into a mess, as you all know... Time for him to leave, before he's introduced to the hall of shame.... I like Coach K, a really good coach, but this guy has been pampered by the NCAA, the Media and the refs for so long... I would say that three of his championships are the result of one, or more of these perks.... Cal, wherever this guy went he had to do everything on his own... No help, as a matter of fact, Cal has been falsely accused for so long, and he's even overcame that, to become a hall of fame coach.. He won at Mass, he won at Memphis, and now has the chance to really carve a deep trench in his basketball legacy....

 

[AGEE11]

I don't know why Izzo is even mentioned with hall of fame coaches..... Maybe one day he will be in the hall of fame, but he's no Cal... Pitino is getting older and refusing to change anything... His recruiting has involved into a mess, as you all know... Time for him to leave, before he's introduced to the hall of shame.... I like Coach K, a really good coach, but this guy has been pampered by the NCAA, the Media and the refs for so long... I would say that three of his championships are the result of one, or more of these perks.... Cal, wherever this guy went he had to do everything on his own... No help, as a matter of fact, Cal has been falsely accused for so long, and he's even overcame that, to become a hall of fame coach.. He won at Mass, he won at Memphis, and now has the chance to really carve a deep trench in his basketball legacy....

Since he started in 1995, any player who stayed with Izzo and Mich St for four years played in a Final Four. That is very impressive. The streak ended in 2014, but no other coach could say that over a 20 year span

The last 6 years with Cal at UK have outshone that accomplishment, but it is a great one nonetheless.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

People talk about Cal can only win with good players or that he can't coach when he loses but they never mention 99 Duke who lost yet coach K had 5 starters who were all lottery picks (not in the same yr). Or roy williams who took 9 McDonald's all Americans to the NIT in 2010.

 

[catfan144]

My honnest take on Cal is that he is a great defensive coach and a good offensives coach, so overall coaching I wouldn't put him as great, but very good. Grade B+
As a recruiter there has never been anyone nor will there ever be anyone better. Grade A+
I think he could have a few better offensive schemes and I sometimes think he is a bit to stubborn and could use his bench a bit more this year, but he is one hell of a ambassador for the UK program.
Overall I would give him a A-

 

[railroadkat_1]

I actually think Izzo is a good coach but not a great coach.

I use to really like coach Izzo. He's now more of a crier than coach K. Plays rough style and now basketball on the grass (like football) Not a fan of the big ten. Coaches like K and Izzo are on the refs before tipoff. Rule changes for this year have disappeared as this season has progressed.

Coach Cal is a hall of fame coach. He outworks the others. Puts the one and dones in the league. He is a Christian man that doesn't mind giving of his time or donating his money to good causes.

 

[Mojocat]

Before going to Memphis and especially since being at UK, Cal was considered great bench coach, and someone who could really develop players, and get the most out of them. Now he is considered just a great recruiter and basically rolls the balls out and watches. That is even the perception of a lot of our fans as well.

Yep. For most of the 90s Cal was known as a coach who didn't recruit well but maximized the talent he had. Seeing someone now criticize his bench coaching is a giant flag that they're either pretty young or just have an agenda. It's like fast forwarding 20 years in the future and hearing people whine that ......(give me a minute, trying to think of the analogy)...

 

[yoshukai]

My ideal UK coach is one who maximizes our chances at a national title on a consistent basis. I know we can't win every year, or even close to that, but I want to be a legit threat (almost) every year.

With that as my criteria, I cannot think of a single person who I would prefer to coach our team other than John Calipari.

He isn't perfect, but I truly do think he is great.

There was a time not long ago that I NEVER thought we had much chance going into the season or the tournament.

 

[NCukcat62]

Pearl is not a great coach. Very good coach but not great.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

The other 3 were when Jay Williams could body check the other point guard and it was called a steal

not sure if you are referring to a specific incident, but in the 2001 final against arizona kzryzewski left marblemouth in the game with 3 first-half fouls, and he was beaten to a loose ball by jason gardner, who he then knocked over

gutless refs swallowed their whistle. they couldn't wait to put KAT in foul trouble though

and kzryzewski did nothing to prepare williams--a pretty significant talent--for life as an nba point guard

 

[bucsrule8872]

If titles are all that matter, then he is behind only three active coaches, I believe:

K
Pitino*
Williams*

Now Pitino and Williams currently have massive scandals that seriously tarnish what they have done.

So that leaves only K.

Other active title winners are (hopefully, I didn't forget anyone, off the top of my head):

Brown
Fisher
Tubby
Izzo
Boeheim
Self
Cal
Ollie

Then look at Final Fours for those guys:

Brown- 2
Fisher- 3
Tubby- 1
Izzo- 5
Boeheim- 3
Self- 2
Cal- 6
Ollie- 1

Remove the tarnished ones (Pitino, Williams) and rank them by titles and Final Fours:

1. K
2. Cal
3. Izzo
4. Boeheim
4. Fisher
6. Self
7. Tubby
8. Ollie

So, if success in March/April is the measuring stick, only K outshines Cal. So, I would argue that Cal is second among active coaches. And K has big head start on Cal, and K has been at a major program while Cal has been stuck in the mid-majors for most of his career.

Cal will always have his detractors, but smart people will realize how hard it is to win a title in college bball and understand that what Cal has done is pretty amazing. Even before coming to UK, he took mid-major schools to Final Fours. What he has done at UK has been done with a new roster pretty much every year. No other coach has to deal with the amount of turnover he has every year. Coach K is getting a taste of it now and is on a three game losing streak right now.

I want no one else coaching at UK right now. I wouldn't even trade him for K, because K is on his farewell tour. Cal will coach several more years.

 

[Jkwo]

Yep. For most of the 90s Cal was known as a coach who didn't recruit well but maximized the talent he had. Seeing someone now criticize his bench coaching is a giant flag that they're either pretty young or just have an agenda. It's like fast forwarding 20 years in the future and hearing people whine that ......(give me a minute, trying to think of the analogy)...

That's a funny idea. Let's take a slightly altered version of Cal's trajectory and insert a current mid-major coach with a Cal-esque run.


The year is 2030 - Gregg Marshall, after floundering at an NBA franchise that hasn't won in 4 decades, comes back to college as a hot commodity - lands at UNC, starts pulling in five stars left and right.

After 6 seasons, he's got 4 final fours and a title and has gone 13-2 versus Duke (twice a season + a couple conference tourney meetings). And unlike former players at UNC, his kids have actually met their teachers.

NC State and Duke fans are quickly catching on to the fact that the man obviously can't coach. They definitely aren't jealous or intimidated to have him on their rival's sidelines.

The most knowledgeable media commentators, like Bilas and Seth Greenberg, praise his coaching acumen, as do the other top coaches in the game, like Izzo and Self. They all do this because they are hacks and wouldn't know an X or an O unless they were playing big block tic tac toe on a playground.

 

[bucsrule8872]

That's a funny idea. Let's take a slightly altered version of Cal's trajectory and insert a current mid-major coach with a Cal-esque run.


The year is 2030 - Gregg Marshall, after floundering at an NBA franchise that hasn't won in 4 decades, comes back to college as a hot commodity - lands at UNC, starts pulling in five stars left and right.

After 6 seasons, he's got 4 final fours and a title and has gone 13-2 versus Duke (twice a season + a couple conference tourney meetings). And unlike former players at UNC, his kids have actually met their teachers.

NC State and Duke fans are quickly catching on to the fact that the man obviously can't coach. They definitely aren't jealous or intimidated to have him on their rival's sidelines.

The most knowledgeable media commentators, like Bilas and Seth Greenberg, praise his coaching acumen, as do the other top coaches in the game, like Izzo and Self. They all do this because they are hacks and wouldn't know an X or an O unless they were playing big block tic tac toe on a playground.

I could see Brad Stevens in that situation in a few years.